OT: Youth Football / Impacts to head

[Mr. Gerbz]

Curious as to opinions. My son is playing 3rd grade tackle football. He plays OL/DL, doing a really great job. Most all helmet impacts are short range without much momentum but once or twice a game, he still takes a decent collision.( plus practice) The RB and LB, even in 3rd grade, definitely take head hits with force. It’s not poor tackling or fundamentals but same as we see on TV, just sometimes the bodies shift last second and heads collide hard. My son really likes football and I could see him playing through 5th/6th grade at least before maybe he grows out of his position… or maybe he won’t in a small town like mine, he will be a 6’0, 190lb type of high school senior, so not exactly OL, but that is years away.

Just wondering what the opinions are here as to if these head collisions on OL/DL are dangerous for the kids in youth football. Even though his head collisions are less significant, they still occur on almost every play due to the nature of the position. Appreciate the thoughts.

 

[Scarlet4Shore]

I’m a physical therapist and treat people who have had concussions. I read an article years ago about a study done at a D1 university. They tested OL/DL at the beginning of the season and again at the end. They found repetitive micro trauma to the brain can be as impactful as the one big crushing hit.

 

[zappaa]

Curious as to opinions. My son is playing 3rd grade tackle football. He plays OL/DL, doing a really great job. Most all helmet impacts are short range without much momentum but once or twice a game, he still takes a decent collision.( plus practice) The RB and LB, even in 3rd grade, definitely take head hits with force. It’s not poor tackling or fundamentals but same as we see on TV, just sometimes the bodies shift last second and heads collide hard. My son really likes football and I could see him playing through 5th/6th grade at least before maybe he grows out of his position… or maybe he won’t in a small town like mine, he will be a 6’0, 190lb type of high school senior, so not exactly OL, but that is years away.

Just wondering what the opinions are here as to if these head collisions on OL/DL are dangerous for the kids in youth football. Even though his head collisions are less significant, they still occur on almost every play due to the nature of the position. Appreciate the thoughts.

Organized tackle football with daily practices and emphasis on physicality shouldn’t begin till 7th grade…imo

 

[mikemarc1]

Shouldn’t worry about it. Very unlikely he’s going to suffer significantly in the long term

 

[ashokan]

I'm not a fan of young football but not because of concussions
A real concussion like Tua's is serious
Most "diagnosed" concussions are nothing like Tua's
There used to be degrees of concussion severity but those got tossed so that the slightest plink can be a "concussion."

Many early concussion "studies" were aimed at creating hysteria and not science
A few dead NFL player autopsies were used to scare people about tau proteins accumulating, but the same proteins are created by drug and alcohol use, excessive sugar consumption and diabetes.
Professional concussion research groups never agreed that football was never proven as major cause of dementia etc.

I came so see the concussion hysteria to be the "climate change" of sports
There was more heat than light and not a lot of solid evidence for dangers claimed
A Tulane study of HS football players found they were healthier over time than students who didn't play
I played in HS and college and I never saw anyone seriously concussed, and I never saw any teammates with sports related "dementia."

Some groups saw money in concussion hysteria
The people originally pushing "dangers" never took studies to peer research groups but went to media first
They had a goal of testing kids all across the country ($)
Lots of people saw lawsuits going in all directions ($)
Researchers asked for support from all directions ($).

There was also a political element in that boy's football was seen as a manifestation of "male hegemony" and gender oppression.
People used to laugh at those claims but now there is the manifestation of insane and immoral efforts to mutilate children and arrest their normal development.
Medical associations want to criminalize dissent and punish anyone not in-line with the science.
These are a lot of the same people trying to pathologize boys football
We lived in an age of junk science but its been morphing into something more diabolical

American Medical Association Pushes DOJ To ‘Investigate And Prosecute’ Those Who Call Out Gender Surgeries Online | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

Why Politicized Science is Dangerous - MichaelCrichton.com

Why Politicized Science is Dangerous By Michael Crichton Excerpted from State of FearImagine that there is a new scientific theory that warns of an impending crisis, and points to a way out. This theory quickly draws support from leading scientists, politicians and celebrities around the world...

www.michaelcrichton.com

 

[Scarlet4Shore]

'Deviant brain metabolism' found in high school football players - Purdue University

New research into the effects of repeated head impacts on high school football players has shown changes in brain chemistry and metabolism even in players who have not been diagnosed with concussions and suggest the brain may not fully heal during the offseason.

www.purdue.edu

 

[Mr. Gerbz]

Maybe 3rd grade will be his last year of football. I’m not going to encourage 4th but I think he will want to play. Blame it on mom. Lol. Thanks all.

 

[Shelby65]

Use your own judgment, but jostling the brain to any degree can’t be good at any age. It can happen in any sport, but probably not as often. Helmet technology is improving, so there’s that.

 

[RUPsyched]

When my son was 10 5th grade, he told us he wanted to play tackle football. We were concerned about injuries, but we decided to let him thinking that after a few hits and not much playing as most of the other kids were playing since 3rd grade, he'll get it out of his system. Part of our decision was asking can 10 year old kids hit hard enough to cause concussions? While possible, we didn't think it likely.

While my son had a couple minor concussions in his 10 years of playing tackle football, none were serious and the benefits to playing outweighed the risks. It was chronic shoulder labrum tears in college that ended his playing. He now coaches at the D3 College level.

That is my experience. Yours may be different. Get as much information from sources you trust such as other parents, coaches and doctors so you can make the decision that is best for your son and family.

 

[Barnaby&Neill]

I'm not a fan of young football but not because of concussions
A real concussion like Tua's is serious
Most "diagnosed" concussions are nothing like Tua's
There used to be degrees of concussion severity but those got tossed so that the slightest plink can be a "concussion."

Many early concussion "studies" were aimed at creating hysteria and not science
A few dead NFL player autopsies were used to scare people about tau proteins accumulating, but the same proteins are created by drug and alcohol use, excessive sugar consumption and diabetes.
Professional concussion research groups never agreed that football was never proven as major cause of dementia etc.

I came so see the concussion hysteria to be the "climate change" of sports
There was more heat than light and not a lot of solid evidence for dangers claimed
A Tulane study of HS football players found they were healthier over time than students who didn't play
I played in HS and college and I never saw anyone seriously concussed, and I never saw any teammates with sports related "dementia."

Some groups saw money in concussion hysteria
The people originally pushing "dangers" never took studies to peer research groups but went to media first
They had a goal of testing kids all across the country ($)
Lots of people saw lawsuits going in all directions ($)
Researchers asked for support from all directions ($).

There was also a political element in that boy's football was seen as a manifestation of "male hegemony" and gender oppression.
People used to laugh at those claims but now there is the manifestation of insane and immoral efforts to mutilate children and arrest their normal development.
Medical associations want to criminalize dissent and punish anyone not in-line with the science.
These are a lot of the same people trying to pathologize boys football
We lived in an age of junk science but its been morphing into something more diabolical

American Medical Association Pushes DOJ To ‘Investigate And Prosecute’ Those Who Call Out Gender Surgeries Online | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

Why Politicized Science is Dangerous - MichaelCrichton.com

Why Politicized Science is Dangerous By Michael Crichton Excerpted from State of FearImagine that there is a new scientific theory that warns of an impending crisis, and points to a way out. This theory quickly draws support from leading scientists, politicians and celebrities around the world...

www.michaelcrichton.com

I’ll go so far as to agree that a lot of the initial CTE hysteria lacked context; every brain that was examined had it, but only the brains of players exhibiting symptoms seem to be donated for examination. It confirms something but doesn’t really reveal much about the problem.

I think more recent research is showing that certain genetic factors increase the risk of CTE among athletes and soldiers, and the same gene also makes one more predisposed to Alzheimer’s more generally.

However, since no one gets tested for the gene before playing football, and it’s fairly common — it wouldn’t be a good bet to dismiss the risk altogether.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Organized tackle football with daily practices and emphasis on physicality shouldn’t begin till 7th grade…imo

Yeah, this. I was about to comment that 3rd grade tackle football is way too young for kids. Their brains are really fragile at that age. For similar reasons, kids should not head soccer balls at too early an age.

 

[hankee18]

This post really hits home. My 3rd grader kept asking to play football so we signed him up this year

I was shocked at the speed and violence of the game even at this age and had thoughts of being a bad parent several times watching him in practices. I felt like I was tossing red meat to a pack of lions. All I kept worrying about was him getting hurt or a concussion. We've played many sports, football is just different

Needless to say he lost interest quickly. Thankfully.

Seeing the game from a parents perespective made me reconsider every aspect of my football fandom too. No other sport do we ask athletes to do what they do

 

[RUAldo]

For similar reasons, kids should not head soccer balls at too early an age.

This is the most baffling part of soccer and youth head injuries in general. I’ve been around youth soccer for 10+ years and have seen way more concussions than I would have ever expected.

 

[RUAldo]

I was shocked at the speed and violence of the game even at this age

Agree 100%. The kids are bigger, faster, stronger than ever. Way more collisions than shoe-string tackles.

 

[Plum Street]

The game is very violent . You don’t truly see that on tv or in the stands . But the odds are your kid is going to be ok and not suffer serious injuries ….but those are just odds .
I played pop Warner through high school.
I think nowadays they do a good job of making practices better with less hitting . Practices used to be more physical , more often and more violent than games. So that’s a plus . But playing the game is a risk and personally I would probably wait to middle school age for tackle football .
Playing football (as is many team sports ) is great preparation for real life . I always felt the best coworkers or colleagues in the professional world were people that had a sports playing background and understood teamwork or former military. There is no “equal” work bs . Some players/workers are better than others . That’s why you have leaders, captains , and different rules for different people. It’s the way of the world .
Oh and no one yelled at me more in life than my football coaches . Not even my wife lol

 

[ashokan]

However, since no one gets tested for the gene before playing football, and it’s fairly common — it wouldn’t be a good bet to dismiss the risk altogether.

I don't dismiss risks altogether.

Anyone with a serious wallop to the head should be kept away from contact for awhile. We all know those stories about skiers and such that hit their heads and are dead the next day despite not exhibiting symptoms.

However on the flip side, we had a local high school of 1100 kids who had 100 sitting out due to "concussion" protocols. Other local football teams lost half their players because their mommies made them quit - the same mommies who would let their kids take an experimental vaccine

I know overkill when I see it, and I know about the epidemic of junk science and scare marketing. Lots of young kids these days are ready to quit things over slight difficulties.

The worst injury I saw in high school was a teammate who broke his arm. In college I saw three guys blow their knees in one game. I consider HS football very safe and college football risky. For a scholarship it can be worth it for non scholarship programs not so much - especially at lineman positions

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

I’m a physical therapist and treat people who have had concussions. I read an article years ago about a study done at a D1 university. They tested OL/DL at the beginning of the season and again at the end. They found repetitive micro trauma to the brain can be as impactful as the one big crushing hit.

I'm not a neurologist, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express once.

 

[PSU_Nut]

I agree with the others saying a ton of these studies are mass hysteria. If you look at is statistically you probably shouldn't let your kid ride in a car or swim in a pool as statistically they are far more likely to have a traumatic injury doing those then playing football. Rule changes, better equipment and a better understanding of impact of head injuries have made the game safer. If you believed the hysteria you would have millions of Americans walking around with brain damage.

The biggest threat to a player safety in youth football is bad coaching. Not ad coaching in regards to win or losses but due to not teaching the fundamentals of the game. You still have coaches who think senseless drills are needed to toughen up kids. Drills like bull in the ring or where you lie down on your back head to head and just hit each other still done in many youth programs. They ignore the research and have bad practice structure and promote hitting over learning skills.

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

I agree with the others saying a ton of these studies are mass hysteria. If you look at is statistically you probably shouldn't let your kid ride in a car or swim in a pool as statistically they are far more likely to have a traumatic injury doing those then playing football. Rule changes, better equipment and a better understanding of impact of head injuries have made the game safer. If you believed the hysteria you would have millions of Americans walking around with brain damage.

The biggest threat to a player safety in youth football is bad coaching. Not ad coaching in regards to win or losses but due to not teaching the fundamentals of the game. You still have coaches who think senseless drills are needed to toughen up kids. Drills like bull in the ring or where you lie down on your back head to head and just hit each other still done in many youth programs. They ignore the research and have bad practice structure and promote hitting over learning skills.

The #1 factor impacting the safety of youth football players is coaching. A really good coach can train and guide your child to play the game safely and successfully. The opposite is also true. Having no information on the quality of instruction in your child's program , I can't comment on your particular situation.
The worst injury I ever encountered, playing and coaching, was a teammate shattering his arm in HS. Totally freak accident. Arm wound up crunched between 2 helmets.
As stated by earlier posters, the hysteria surrounding concussions is overblown. They do occur no doubt. But serious injurys are pretty rare.
Safety equipment and rules are far superior to those when I played. If the harm was as wide spread as is being portrayed by some hysterics, a bunch of the guys I played along side and coached over the years would be affected negatively. There is not one example that I know of this being the case.
The examples of guys learning that they are capable of doing things they never thought possible, working as a team, leading by example and applying those lessons to life are too numerous to list. The game of football teaches you to be tough mentally and physically. Those lessons will serve you well for your entire life. Sure has in my case.
A good football coach, like a good teacher in school, can change your life.
There are inherent dangers in all facets of life. Teaching your kids to fear them instead of face them rationally is a disservice in my opinion.
I wouldn't push a kid into playing that doesn't want to. But I would encourage a kid who does. All people are different.
Just my $.02. Take it for what its worth.

 

[Scarlet1984]

Based on my experience as a parent, on many youth teams there is way too much hitting and head banging in practice. Maybe the dumbest thing about youth football.

I don’t think I would recommend youth football to anyone, but I don’t try to talk people out of it either.

I would say that, unlike most sports, kids are not at a disadvantage picking the sport up later. Even as late as HS. So there’s no rush to start playing.

 

[ashokan]

The examples of guys learning that they are capable of doing things they never thought possible, working as a team, leading by example and applying those lessons to life are too numerous to list. The game of football teaches you to be tough mentally and physically. Those lessons will serve you well for your entire life. Sure has in my case.
A good football coach, like a good teacher in school, can change your life.
.

Many cultures have young boys take part is some sort of risky challenge around 12-13 years old. I think its good to bring boys out of their adolescent shells in some way . In the current culture things are often done in reverse - breakout the bubble-wrap.

I was a chubby TV kid up to 13
I showed-up to my first football practice in jeans since I had no idea what was about to happen to me lol
I wanted to quit but my mother laid a guilt-trip and I stuck it out (never mind playing games - its summer training weeks that kick the butts).
Best thing that ever happened to me
I eventually turned into a specimen and only went to college because of football
Its good to go through life stronger than most and not fearing physical challenges - including fights when needed.

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

Based on my experience as a parent, on many youth teams there is way too much hitting and head banging in practice. Maybe the dumbest thing about youth football.

I don’t think I would recommend youth football to anyone, but I don’t try to talk people out of it either.

I would say that, unlike most sports, kids are not at a disadvantage picking the sport up later. Even as late as HS. So there’s no rush to start playing.

You are so wrong abt starting late it's not even funny. Up to and including HS speed, skill and knowledge of the game 100% trumps size and strength. Guys who start late are waay behind the 8 ball. If a kid is not going to grow to NFL size and loves to play football, waiting is stupid. They miss out on years of playing a great game. You don't get those years back.
You actually INCREASE the chance of getting your clock cleaned (which is the fear most expressed here) by not learning the game young and small.
Did any of the " don't let your kids play SCARY football!" folks in this thread actually PLAY the game @ any reasonable level of ability? If any of them did, none of what is being said here makes any sense. Experience would tell them just the opposite.

 

[Scarlet1984]

You are so wrong abt starting late it's not even funny. Up to and including HS speed, skill and knowledge of the game 100% trumps size and strength. Guys who start late are waay behind the 8 ball. If a kid is not going to grow to NFL size and loves to play football, waiting is stupid. They miss out on years of playing a great game. You don't get those years back.
You actually INCREASE the chance of getting your clock cleaned (which is the fear most expressed here) by not learning the game young and small.
Did any of the " don't let your kids play SCARY football!" folks in this thread actually PLAY the game @ any reasonable level of ability? If any of them did, none of what is being said here makes any sense. Experience would tell them just the opposite.

I did not play football. But my views are not uninformed.

My son played for 10+ years and his experience - and what I saw - was that there was a lot of "helmet to helmet" contact going on in drills as early as third grade. And he felt like there was more contact in practice in Pop Warner than he experienced in college.

Obviously, it is silly to argue in this thread as this thread is mostly about sharing opinions and perspectives.

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

Most of the helmet to helmet contact is unnecessary and avoidable. Thus my emphasis on competent coaching. MANY youth football organizations put the most inexperienced morons as coaches @ the most important level. The guys coaching the youngest and newest should be the best, but most organizations don't get it. If a kid's (and their parents) 1st experience with football is a screaming idiot who has little ones banging heads together and not having fun, you lose them forever. The whole "no second chance at a first impression" deal.
If that was your experience I totally get what you are saying and appreciate it. No argument at all. I've seen my share of bad coaches and organizations over the years.
The reason for less contact in college is that there is less need for basic skills training. You can't teach kids safe contact skills without actually doing it. Most of my tackling skills training with young ones back in the day was with padded dummies held by coaches. However at some point it needs to be done for real.
I'm not looking to diminish your point of view. Just trying to add context. Don't take it personal. I get what you are saying. I've seen it.
When I started playing football at 9yrs old my coaches were very successful HS coaches who understood how important the little guys are. Still have fond memories of it and them. Loved them all and returned to do the same. Football really is a wonderful and rewarding game if taught properly.

 

[RUBound]

Thought I would share our own experience with two sons - one played tackle football since 4th grade and was a skill position player. He played WR-DB-QB thru high school and got dinged a couple of times and put on concussion protocol - but nothing too serious. These protocols actually occurred when he was younger - before HS. Younger son is not as athletic but bigger - we kept him out of tackle football until 8th grade. The reason - and I am not saying this is the right decision for everyone - we did not want him to play the line and go thru more repetitive hitting on the line at a younger age. I saw what linemen had to go thru when I played in the 80’s and did not think it would benefit our son all that much to play full contact at a young age. I would say though it is a much different, less violent game now - even on the line. I still do worry and take some comfort in knowing it’s a different game as he is playing HS now. In the end parents have to evaluate their kids and their own situations - the pros and cons - some of them being real and others perhaps just perception. It is a difficult decision no matter how you look at it but - just my person opinion, I would hold out kids from full contact FB until 7th or 8th grade.

 

[mildone]

I eventually turned into a specimen

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I know I give some of your posts a hard time, but don't ever change, brother. Despite many disagreements, I enjoy your work. 🙂


Now I need to mop up some tea from my desk...