Paterno thread (merged)

[TheB1GTerp]

Just remember after YEARS of accusations against Sandusky culimating in one finally so horrible they had to fire him. Paterno personally signed off on Sandusky getting full access to facilities and the ability to run a camp for middle school kids. No getting around that he let what happened for the next decade.

 

[lighty]

I just pray something like this never happens at Rutgers (or any other school actually). Too many people here have a rather holier than thou attitude about Rutgers. Remember a few years ago when nobody thought Rutgers would ever have a bunch of players arrested before a season? Back when we had a coach that so many thought was "an honorable man"?

It's easy to say something like Sandusky and whatever level of coverup happened wouldn't occur at Rutgers. But it is possible.

 

[miketd1]

Terp: Joe was caught between a rock and a hard place there:
Say "yes" and risk more harm.
Say "no" and implicitly admit that you knew about the prior harm.

 

[TheB1GTerp]

I just pray something like this never happens at Rutgers (or any other school actually). Too many people here have a rather holier than thou attitude about Rutgers. Remember a few years ago when nobody thought Rutgers would ever have a bunch of players arrested before a season? Back when we had a coach that so many thought was "an honorable man"?

It's easy to say something like Sandusky and whatever level of coverup happened wouldn't occur at Rutgers. But it is possible.

No it's not.

Rutgers does not have the media, state attorney, local police, and politicians in their pocket.

Sure fan bases may be delusional, but rarely does a football program OWN the state.

I could see it happening at Alabama or Kentucky, but not at a place where people have other things to live for.

 

[PSU_Nut]

Just remember after YEARS of accusations against Sandusky culimating in one finally so horrible they had to fire him. Paterno personally signed off on Sandusky getting full access to facilities and the ability to run a camp for middle school kids. No getting around that he let what happened for the next decade.

If you look he allowed the camp but said no to brining second mile kids into the facility. He was ok with Sandusky using them but not with kids.

 

[thegock]

@DNA22

Wetzel on Logic


So did Joe Paterno know about Sandusky in 1971 AND 1976 and do nothing? Did an assistant coach know in 1987 and another in 1988? Did another claim of abuse come to the AD in 1988? Six assistant coaches witnessed “inappropriate behavior” by JS with boys? If so, how could Paterno not have heard about these accusations?

What about the police investigation into Sandusky and a State College boy in 1998? No charges were filed, but the investigation was intense; Sandusky even admitted making a "mistake." State College is a small town and Sandusky was a big figure. Paterno never heard? What about the email chain about the situation involving three Penn State administrators, including the athletic director, Tim Curley, who wrote he had spoken to "the coach" about the situation? If Paterno isn't "the coach" then who else could have been the coach?

Then, there is 2001 regarding which Joe testified that he had heard about “something of a sexual nature” between JS and a young boy. Essentially, there is this: How many allegations can there be that Paterno was told something, only for his supporters to keep claiming he didn't know anything?

 

[miketd1]

 

[Doctor Worm]

I just pray something like this never happens at Rutgers (or any other school actually). Too many people here have a rather holier than thou attitude about Rutgers. Remember a few years ago when nobody thought Rutgers would ever have a bunch of players arrested before a season? Back when we had a coach that so many thought was "an honorable man"?

It's easy to say something like Sandusky and whatever level of coverup happened wouldn't occur at Rutgers. But it is possible.

Yes, we did have a coach that we thought was an honorable man. When we learned that he was less honorable than we thought, we as a fanbase rejected him. His failings pale in comparison to that of Paterno.

Sandusky is not the issue. No one would ever claim that a Sandusky could not surface at Rutgers. The key word is "surface", and what would happen when he did surface. I truly believe that given the culture at RU and in NJ in general, there would be no cover up.

 

[miker183]

Or better yet, since McQueary was so distraught by what he saw, why did he call his dad, wait a day and then call Joe instead of the police? Why is it that all of you just want to focus on Joe when the two people I mentioned above are FAR more responsible imo than Joe

So, try not to let facts deter you in any way. Joe did what he was supposed to do when he made his supervisors aware of the incident. BUT, McQueary, Paterno's subordinate was supposed to go to the police? That was HIS responsibility, but the Head Coach needs ONLY do the bare minimum? Got it.

If I were in McQueary's shoes, I tell Joe, and we call the cops while I am still in his office. If Paterno refuses, I advise him that I will call as soon as I leave his office. Either way the police will be notified rather promptly. That is what I would do. But, then again, I did not play, coach or live under the rules of a program where everything went through Paterno.

There is an old saying: "A fish rots from the head on down." If it is that foul, it falls at the feet of the guy in charge. You are working very hard to overlook clues that don't fit your truth. At the very least, you should be suspicious because of what has been reported.

You also state that you would take the University President's word over that of a sports reporter, but both have a reason for spinning their own "truth". The sports reporter is being aggressive to create readership; we see this on nj.com quite often. But, the University President could, most assuredly, spin a story to prevent any more bad press towards the University.

You say there is no corroboration, and though a settlement has been paid to the 1971 victim, it is more likely that this is to keep him quiet. Settlements used as "hush money" are usually done BEFORE the story breaks, not after.

Please be careful when using logic or reason, it's sharp, you might hurt yourself.

 

[miker183]

I just pray something like this never happens at Rutgers (or any other school actually). Too many people here have a rather holier than thou attitude about Rutgers. Remember a few years ago when nobody thought Rutgers would ever have a bunch of players arrested before a season? Back when we had a coach that so many thought was "an honorable man"?

It's easy to say something like Sandusky and whatever level of coverup happened wouldn't occur at Rutgers. But it is possible.

Absolutely, true. The difference is, we would deal with it, and God forbid we didn't, I would wash my hands of my Alma Mater. There is NO DEFENSE of a villain like this being on campus.

You bring up the RU players, I feel that was dealt with quickly, and with a purpose. I was disgusted that that would happen on our campus with our own players, but was comfortable with the fact that it was "nipped in the bud."

 

[srru86]

Paterno personally signed off on Sandusky getting full access to facilities and the ability to run a camp for middle school kids. No getting around that he let what happened for the next decade.

Wait that can't be right. Where are the annotations about how much JoePa detested Sandusky and the mysterious people that forced him to keep the child raper around?

 

[NotInRHouse]

Fist of all we don't know if this victim was settled with. According to the admin it was not. Keep in mind there may be multiple claims that date back then. In addition victims have until their 50th birthday to make a claim. It is possible that the SOL had not run out if the victim made the initial claim in 2011.

"Penn State's legal settlements with Jerry Sandusky's accusers cover alleged abuse dating to 1971, which was 40 years before his arrest, the university said Sunday in providing the first confirmation of the time frame of abuse claims that have led to big payouts."

Whoops!

http://espn.go.com/college-football...usky-accusers-cover-alleged-abuse-dating-1971

 

[ruready4somefootball]

Does "409" stand for how many wins Paterno had or how many boys were raped by Jerry? I feel either way, The Cult will keep on wearing them.

 

[newell138]

at least one PSU alum gets it, they are not all cult members:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/penn-state-joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky-sexual-abuse-scandal

 

[DJ Spanky]

Someone caught a candid photo of DNA last night:

 

[NotInRHouse]

Someone caught a candid photo of DNA last night:

Exchange "wrong" with "prizing child welfare over football" and it would be more accurate.

 

[JMG1MON]

We know McQueary told Joe he witnessed something occurring in the locker room in 2001 between Sandusky and a young boy.

It has been well documented that Joe was a devout Catholic. If he was a Catholic, I find it difficult to believe that he did not know about the sex abuse scandal that came to light in the mid-90's that ripped through the Catholic Church. If he knew about that, I find it difficult to believe he didn't understand what exactly McQueary saw, even if his comments were somewhat ambiguous. Especially since he testified that McQueary told him he saw something of a sexual nature.

Therefore, I struggle with the argument that Joe didn't understand what he was told.

 

[jerseylion109]

so im trying to understand this logic. You all think that Joe Paterno was told by 2 children, one in 1971 and another in 1976 that they were raped by a low level assistant. After this, Joe Paterno promotes this person to Defensive coordinator, allows them to open a children's charity for AT RISK kids, and then lets his children be around him, over his house, in the pool with him. That doesn't make any sense to me but maybe im just an enabler.

 

[DJ Spanky]

at least one PSU alum gets it, they are not all cult members:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/penn-state-joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky-sexual-abuse-scandal

That's refreshing to see: too bad more alumni of that school aren't like that.

 

[DNA22]

I found the following Paterno quote very telling of his personal flaws.

"My name," Paterno told his son Jay. "I have spent my whole life trying to make that name mean something. And now it's gone."

He didn't cry for the countless child victims. He didn't even cry for the shame brought to his school. He cried for the damage to his "name."
If he would have put the welfare of children above any possible damage to his name, dozens of kids would have been spared sexual abuse by Sandusky. But his vanity would not allow that.

Oh good lord give it a rest. Perhaps I should have realized before that no matter what I said some of u would just still assume the worst when it comes to joe and continue to troll him like you have for 5 years.

 

[mikemarc1]

Oh good lord give it a rest. Perhaps I should have realized before that no matter what I said some of u would just still assume the worst when it comes to joe and continue to troll him like you have for 5 years.

Yup, lots of people think he's guilty. Not just us....

We are going to continue to talk about it...so you can chose not to partake if you don't like. Its very easy.

 

[miker183]

Oh good lord give it a rest. Perhaps I should have realized before that no matter what I said some of u would just still assume the worst when it comes to joe and continue to troll him like you have for 5 years.

You have said nothing based in fact. You're opinions are based on a preconceived notion that Paterno was a good guy, and as such, couldn't have possibly been aware. The evidence suggests quite a bit more. Paterno is not the true villain for what happened, Sandusky will have to wear that burden. But, the evidence is certainly substantial enough for you to CONSIDER that it is possible, indeed likely, that Paterno knew.

Sandusky does not seem that smart to pull this off for decades by himself. Think about how absurd that belief is.

I have long since moved on about Paterno himself, my complaint is the continuing desire by PSU to whitewash the whole thing. When you come across illegal/immoral/unethical behavior you deal with it and fix it, or the consequences stain you. It is that simple. I hope you never face such a moral "dilemma", I fear we would find you lacking.

 

[Knight Ed]

Oh good lord give it a rest. Perhaps I should have realized before that no matter what I said some of u would just still assume the worst when it comes to joe and continue to troll him like you have for 5 years.

I assume nothing. I quoted him. I read court findings. You made up a dream in your head about some college football coach being a messianic figure and when it turns out that dream in your head was all a lie you can't come to grips with the reality of it all.

 

[DNA22]

You have said nothing based in fact. You're opinions are based on a preconceived notion that Paterno was a good guy, and as such, couldn't have possibly been aware. The evidence suggests quite a bit more. Paterno is not the true villain for what happened, Sandusky will have to wear that burden. But, the evidence is certainly substantial enough for you to CONSIDER that it is possible, indeed likely, that Paterno knew.

Sandusky does not seem that smart to pull this off for decades by himself. Think about how absurd that belief is.

I have long since moved on about Paterno himself, my complaint is the continuing desire by PSU to whitewash the whole thing. When you come across illegal/immoral/unethical behavior you deal with it and fix it, or the consequences stain you. It is that simple. I hope you never face such a moral "dilemma", I fear we would find you lacking.

I do 100% believe Sandusky was intelligent enough to pull that off. Keep in mind for 3 decades this guys was one of the best defensive minds in football period. Jerry Sandusky's ability to coach up defenses particularly LB's were unparralelled in college football. It was when Sandusky was DC that PSU was coined 'Linebacker U'. In other words, he isn't a dumbass, he's actually extremely intelligent just unfortunately was a sicko and used his position to cause harm.

 

[jmc11201]

I'm sure DNA and others would be this vigilant for the truth if the claims involved Urban Meyer or Jim Harbaugh or Nick Saban.

And to the credibility of the university president denying the claims...let's be 100% honest. By doing anything other than what he did, the Paterno mob would have gone to his house, kidnapped him, and burned him at the stake.

 

[miker183]

I do 100% believe Sandusky was intelligent enough to pull that off. Keep in mind for 3 decades this guys was one of the best defensive minds in football period. Jerry Sandusky's ability to coach up defenses particularly LB's were unparralelled in college football. It was when Sandusky was DC that PSU was coined 'Linebacker U'. In other words, he isn't a dumbass, he's actually extremely intelligent just unfortunately was a sicko and used his position to cause harm.

The guy knew football, that doesn't mean he's a Rhodes Scholar. Another giant leap and attempt at logic.
His behavior comes across as someone who doesn't think he did anything wrong, so I'm missing the part where he would use his proposed superior mental acumen to cover up his misdeeds.

Denial, it ain't just a river in Egypt anymore!!

 

[mikemarc1]

I do 100% believe Sandusky was intelligent enough to pull that off. Keep in mind for 3 decades this guys was one of the best defensive minds in football period. Jerry Sandusky's ability to coach up defenses particularly LB's were unparralelled in college football. It was when Sandusky was DC that PSU was coined 'Linebacker U'. In other words, he isn't a dumbass, he's actually extremely intelligent just unfortunately was a sicko and used his position to cause harm.

Not quite sure how game planning and coaching a football game has ANYTHING to do with getting away with rape for decades.

 

[miker183]

Not quite sure how game planning and coaching a football game has ANYTHING to do with getting away with rape for decades.

But, he's the reason they're Linebacker U! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

 

[DNA22]

The guy knew football, that doesn't mean he's a Rhodes Scholar. Another giant leap and attempt at logic.
His behavior comes across as someone who doesn't think he did anything wrong, so I'm missing the part where he would use his proposed superior mental acumen to cover up his misdeeds.

Denial, it ain't just a river in Egypt anymore!!

Bro if anyone is making leaps it would be u. We aren't going to agree on the subject. U do know that it's ok for people to disagree on subjects and still act like adults right? I mean I know politics and society today kind of suggests otherwise with the people running around burning buildings when they don't agree with something but I like to think as an RU grad talking amoungst my peers that we could be civil. If you don't agree with me that that's fine but don't claim all these jumps and leaps when the reality is that you are doing the same thing it's just going with the groups consensus since PSU is the enemy to so many of u

 

[mikemarc1]

Bro if anyone is making leaps it would be u. We aren't going to agree on the subject. U do know that it's ok for people to disagree on subjects and still act like adults right? I mean I know politics and society today kind of suggests otherwise with the people running around burning buildings when they don't agree with something but I like to think as an RU grad talking amoungst my peers that we could be civil. If you don't agree with me that that's fine but don't claim all these jumps and leaps when the reality is that you are doing the same thing it's just going with the groups consensus since PSU is the enemy to so many of u

Then let it go....we aren't going to agree. You're getting all worked up. It's probably in your best interest to stop talking about it and leaving the thread. Just my opinion here.

 

[newell138]

Think about the cult of personality we are dealing w/ here and it will explain their logic.. They built a statue of the guy and placed it in front of the building he works at while he was still alive and working. Where else in the free world are there statues of people that are still alive? North Korea? Iran? Russia? Its amazing how many times we build statues of living people they end up being torn down for one reason or another.

 

[miker183]

Bro if anyone is making leaps it would be u. We aren't going to agree on the subject. U do know that it's ok for people to disagree on subjects and still act like adults right? I mean I know politics and society today kind of suggests otherwise with the people running around burning buildings when they don't agree with something but I like to think as an RU grad talking amoungst my peers that we could be civil. If you don't agree with me that that's fine but don't claim all these jumps and leaps when the reality is that you are doing the same thing it's just going with the groups consensus since PSU is the enemy to so many of u

Bring a valid ARGUMENT devoid of your lasting impression and I might listen. BUT, you are arguing with a number of posters here, and have never, not even once, considered the idea that YOU are wrong. It is easier for you to think that we are just a stubborn lot. Arguments have been made about reports out of PSU, court proceedings and other sources. Your argument is "no I don't think so."

Don't go away angry, just go away!!

We can discuss any other topic, your insights on this are lacking logic and common sense.

I'm considering it a Public Service to get you to engage, WITH FACTS, or not at all. THEN, we can agree to disagree.

 

[DNA22]

Not quite sure how game planning and coaching a football game has ANYTHING to do with getting away with rape for decades.

It's doesn't directly however it DOES show that Sandusky had a brain. Ur argument was "he wasn't smart enough to pull it off on his own". Well he was a hell of a lot smarter a person than John Gacy or Jeffrey Dommer. That's all I'm saying.

What's most funny though is literally EVERY other child abuse case u ever hear about the ONLY person that people are concerned with in society is the one who actually committed the crimes. For some reason just because it's penn state and Joe Paterno's name has been attached, all the loony college sports fans just took that and ran with it literally as a smear campaign against PSU.

U can't honestly sit there and say that when the sanctions came out, u weren't a bit excited at the possibility of RU capitalizing on some of their struggles particularly in recruiting since we are close by. But when that didn't happen and they were still beating us both for recruits and on the field it irked many of u, I'll be the first to admit it pissed me off that RU couldn't capitalize on the situation. And yes, I do believe that to be the primary reason why so many of you still care and talk about this case as much as you do

 

[AreYouNUTS]

I do 100% believe Sandusky was intelligent enough to pull that off. Keep in mind for 3 decades this guys was one of the best defensive minds in football period. Jerry Sandusky's ability to coach up defenses particularly LB's were unparralelled in college football. It was when Sandusky was DC that PSU was coined 'Linebacker U'. In other words, he isn't a dumbass, he's actually extremely intelligent just unfortunately was a sicko and used his position to cause harm.

So now a guy who coaches some of the best LB's in the nation - from a state that has always produced great LB's and a school that had them waiting in line to go play that position there - is "extremely intelligent"?

WOW! You've now "said it all" DNA!

 

[mikemarc1]

It's doesn't directly however it DOES show that Sandusky had a brain. Ur argument was "he wasn't smart enough to pull it off on his own". Well he was a hell of a lot smarter a person than John Gacy or Jeffrey Dommer. That's all I'm saying.

What's most funny though is literally EVERY other child abuse case u ever hear about the ONLY person that people are concerned with in society is the one who actually committed the crimes. For some reason just because it's penn state and Joe Paterno's name has been attached, all the loony college sports fans just took that and ran with it literally as a smear campaign against PSU.

U can't honestly sit there and say that when the sanctions came out, u weren't a bit excited at the possibility of RU capitalizing on some of their struggles particularly in recruiting since we are close by. But when that didn't happen and they were still beating us both for recruits and on the field it irked many of u, I'll be the first to admit it pissed me off that RU couldn't capitalize on the situation. And yes, I do believe that to be the primary reason why so many of you still care and talk about this case as much as you do

Everybody has a brain..but really wouldn't call someone who rapes little boys in a shower in front of coworker as "extremely intelligent".

And FYI, I never made that argument. You don't have to be "smart" to pull this off. You just need to surround yourself with the right people..which it seems like Sandusky did. He had a safe haven, it appears.

 

[RUEd]

So now a guy who coaches some of the best LB's in the nation - from a state that has always produced great LB's and a school that had them waiting in line to go play that position there - is "extremely intelligent"?

WOW! You've now "said it all" DNA!

Sandusky wants a new trial. What if he gets one? Will more stuff come out about Paterno now that he is dead?

 

[DNA22]

Bring a valid ARGUMENT devoid of your lasting impression and I might listen. BUT, you are arguing with a number of posters here, and have never, not even once, considered the idea that YOU are wrong. It is easier for you to think that we are just a stubborn lot. Arguments have been made about reports out of PSU, court proceedings and other sources. Your argument is "no I don't think so."

Don't go away angry, just go away!!

We can discuss any other topic, your insights on this are lacking logic and common sense.

I'm considering it a Public Service to get you to engage, WITH FACTS, or not at all. THEN, we can agree to disagree.

I've brought more facts to this thread than anyone else, just read back at what I wrote. I'm not going to re type what I've already posted. And for the record I've made it clear that I don't know one way or another what happened, none of us do, but I will say that I will never subscribe to the court of public opinion that most of this board does and declare people guilty until proven innocent which is exactly what most of you are doing in reference to Paterno in spite of the FACT that Paterno has never been and never will be accused of any legal wrongdoing in this case

 

[DNA22]

So now a guy who coaches some of the best LB's in the nation - from a state that has always produced great LB's and a school that had them waiting in line to go play that position there - is "extremely intelligent"?

WOW! You've now "said it all" DNA!

Yup, highly intelligent nuts

 

[DNA22]

Sandusky wants a new trial. What if he gets one? Will more stuff come out about Paterno now that he is dead?

U say that like you want more stuff to come out to slander Paterno. I hope to God that the asshole doesn't get a retrial so his victims don't have to re-live their personal hell

 

[miketd1]