I’m confident he can continue to make minor improvements to the program. After 5 years, he should be able to field a winning program...maybe 16 or 17 wins. He’s not our next level coach. I’ve been saying that since before the season started and people are finally starting to come around. But he’s a good stepping stone who will have gotten us out of the Rice/Jordan darkness.
Pikiell needs another 2 years
- Thread starter RUSK97
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I think he can turn it around but it will take 7-8 years for him to do it. He just seems to be turning the corner in regards to getting legit talent here. The 4 “freshmen” were on the floor together yesterday and I was thinking what kind of team would they be leading in their senior year. I think it will be an NIT team. And that will be year 7!!!! It might be an ncaa team if pike can start getting talent on the level of Mathis in the next few classes. He needs time to build a name for himself and his program. I hope we have patience for him
There’s zero grumblings about firing Pikiell (and there shouldn’t be). I’m sure Hobbs will be patient with him.
Geez...
Can’t anyone see that we have some real pieces on this team are frosh that need to be grown up? Even baker is a soph ?
No one, including me, likes the patience word, but that is what this requires
Can’t anyone see that we have some real pieces on this team are frosh that need to be grown up? Even baker is a soph ?
No one, including me, likes the patience word, but that is what this requires
7 years to turn around a Basketball program is laughable...only at Rutgers where the bar is set on the ground.
Problem is it’s very difficult to recruit to such a moribund program with below average facilities and a horrible history the last 40 years. Have to be patient imo. Pike can coach. He needs players.
A
anon_ivydyf0amkzay
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Ash could be caught snorting coke off of a hookers bare chest and he’ll still get the benefit of the doubt...Pikiell is safe!
Sign me up for a job where I get 7 years to prove I can do it. Sheesh. I believe Pikiell is still a long term coach’s here, and he has a lot of great qualities. He will have to figure out ho w to be creative offensively. Also, if Jay Young was to leave, he would be really be in a bad spot.
Not only that but he can probably finish last every year until he does it. It’s actually difficult to finish last in a 14 team league every year. You almost have to try to do it. At some point, coaching (in addition to recruiting), comes into play.
I do like Pikiell, but he doesn’t just get a free pass for 7 years (or even 3 years) because our program sucks.
For sure. I think he will finish above 14 this year. That was what a lot of us wanted to see.
Maryland is the youngest team in the country. Youth is just an excuse.
I like pike! My worry is the fan base becomes impatient and we end up with another EJ...or worse! Let's give coach pike some time to build a program and reassess after year 5.
I think there's a big difference between a team that's young, but has been winning and in a winning culture and a team that's young that's trying to break through.
Maryland's talent level is about a grade higher than ours. That makes a big difference. Their roster is made up of mostly four star recruits.
5 years is fair, anything more is like hoping for improvement.
Making the NIT in Pike's 5th year is reasonable to demand.
If not either accept always hoping for a better team under him or pay for someone who can make RU a winner.
Making the NIT in Pike's 5th year is reasonable to demand.
If not either accept always hoping for a better team under him or pay for someone who can make RU a winner.
I agree with the NIT in year 5 but I can see him coaching NIT teams for a few years
The guy is getting hits and misses with recruiting. And he is shooting for the right kind of players. He missed out on Alvarado and had to settle for souf to take his place. He went for those twins who were about to come here until Nevada swooped in the last minute and snagged them. So then pike had to go to plan b again. He has hit on EO and geo and the 4 freshmen this year. Only one prospect so far looks like an all-big 10 potential player and that is Mathis. Pike needs to build this program to be a somewhat respected NIT team and then he’ll connect on more Mathis-level recruits that can get him a roster that can make the ncaas. It’s gonna take time.
We need patience.
More patience than you want.
We are not sniffing NIT next year. It would take a miracle.
If we break through it will be because of players that aren’t on our radar right now.
More patience than you want.
We are not sniffing NIT next year. It would take a miracle.
If we break through it will be because of players that aren’t on our radar right now.
NIT again is not the level of play 10 years ago. You're on the NCAA bubble to be an NIT team. Just making sure fans actually know or follow what the criteria is.
You have to be plus 5 at a minimum overall and probably 9 wins and 11 losses in B1G plus 1-1 in the B1G tournament just to have a chance. That would be 18-14 overall or 8-2 OOC against a quality schedule with the 9 to 10 wins in the B1G.
You have to be plus 5 at a minimum overall and probably 9 wins and 11 losses in B1G plus 1-1 in the B1G tournament just to have a chance. That would be 18-14 overall or 8-2 OOC against a quality schedule with the 9 to 10 wins in the B1G.
My concern with Pikiell is that he's too conventional. It's very very hard to win here being conventional, our institutional disadvantages mean he has to be a lot better than an average coach to make up for it.
Schiano's the example of how a conventional coach can break through here... he really was that much better (or luckier) than average at identifying underrated talent and turning it into very productive pieces. Flood and Ash are both conventional coaches but they don't have the same eye/developmental ability of Schiano, and you see what that gets you.
I'm not saying we should hire Horace Broadnax or Duggar Baucom and run a gimmick offense, but I would like to see us try some more outside-the-box ideas. Because while his recruiting and development are clear upgrades from Eddie, that's a low bar. And there's nothing so far to suggest that he's going to start bringing in recruiting classes ranked in the top half of the league on a regular basis or that he's consistently finding and developing under-the-radar talent... There are success stories in recruiting development (Omoruyi, Baker) but also there's the flipside (Mensah, Thiam, Doucoure development-wise).
To win at Rutgers you need to be a well-above-average coach. The jury is out on whether Pikiell can rise to that... Hill, Rice, and Jordan all had obvious failings. Pikiell doesn't, but what if his ceiling as a coach is Gary Waters? We'd kill for that right now but Gary never made a tournament. I think Pikiell is going to need to evolve in some way to get us where we want to go.
Schiano's the example of how a conventional coach can break through here... he really was that much better (or luckier) than average at identifying underrated talent and turning it into very productive pieces. Flood and Ash are both conventional coaches but they don't have the same eye/developmental ability of Schiano, and you see what that gets you.
I'm not saying we should hire Horace Broadnax or Duggar Baucom and run a gimmick offense, but I would like to see us try some more outside-the-box ideas. Because while his recruiting and development are clear upgrades from Eddie, that's a low bar. And there's nothing so far to suggest that he's going to start bringing in recruiting classes ranked in the top half of the league on a regular basis or that he's consistently finding and developing under-the-radar talent... There are success stories in recruiting development (Omoruyi, Baker) but also there's the flipside (Mensah, Thiam, Doucoure development-wise).
To win at Rutgers you need to be a well-above-average coach. The jury is out on whether Pikiell can rise to that... Hill, Rice, and Jordan all had obvious failings. Pikiell doesn't, but what if his ceiling as a coach is Gary Waters? We'd kill for that right now but Gary never made a tournament. I think Pikiell is going to need to evolve in some way to get us where we want to go.
This is correct. As an example, look how long it took PSU under Chambers and SHU under Willard to get to the NIT.
The common expectation on this board was that Year 3 would actually be Year 1.
We are not having the recruiting successes that the upper echelon B1G teams are having, yet.
Not using the hated parallel between FB and BB, but then the suggestion is when Chris Ash made the oft ridiculed comment that this rebuild could take 5, 6, 7 years, he was correct?
Because if we’re throwing out Pikiell’s first two years and calling this year his year 1 and reassessing in 4 years, that’s year 6.
Because if we’re throwing out Pikiell’s first two years and calling this year his year 1 and reassessing in 4 years, that’s year 6.
For comparison's sake, SHU didn't make the NCAA tournament until Year 6 under Willard. Of course, he had landed a 5-star PG -- plus several other really good recruits, like Carrington -- after Year 3, all of whom led the team to its first NCAA tournament under Willard in Year 6. Major rebuilds, at schools that don't have built in advantages, take time. Lots of time.
The thing about the Rutgers job is that it is unlike EVERY OTHER rebuild out there, because of the 25 year NCAA drought that existed when Pike took over, and that was on top of the Rice scandal and the awful Jordan hire. The program was a laughingstock, with poor facilities and no recent history. So it's not really fair for people to point out that Illinois just landed a 5-star kid last year; Illinois was a regular NCAA tournament team not very long ago, and they have a rich, fairly recent history in basketball.
So like Shack and others have said, we need to be PATIENT even though we're all sick and tired of being patient after a 27-year NCAA drought and 14 years of not even finishing with a .500 record.
The thing about the Rutgers job is that it is unlike EVERY OTHER rebuild out there, because of the 25 year NCAA drought that existed when Pike took over, and that was on top of the Rice scandal and the awful Jordan hire. The program was a laughingstock, with poor facilities and no recent history. So it's not really fair for people to point out that Illinois just landed a 5-star kid last year; Illinois was a regular NCAA tournament team not very long ago, and they have a rich, fairly recent history in basketball.
So like Shack and others have said, we need to be PATIENT even though we're all sick and tired of being patient after a 27-year NCAA drought and 14 years of not even finishing with a .500 record.
We could really use one elite elite top recruit for 2020 in NJ to commit early and lead the charge for a game changing recruiting class... Sadly it just never seems to happen for Rutgers but I still hopeful for multiple 4 stars in that class
Pat Chambers and Penn St is the standard.
6 years of no NIT or NCAA and still kept his job. It was tough lots of calls for him to be fired after years 5 and 6 especially. But PSU hierarchy stayed the course.
I think barring something embarrassing Pikiell will get a similar fate.
6 years of no NIT or NCAA and still kept his job. It was tough lots of calls for him to be fired after years 5 and 6 especially. But PSU hierarchy stayed the course.
I think barring something embarrassing Pikiell will get a similar fate.
Disagree...there are kids there who still hold together what winning basketball is about
Much harder for 13 kids to learn it all at the same time than 5 or 6
That isn't happening. That's why this job is so hard. Maybe in Phase 3 or 4 we can land a legitimate 5 star player
I wonder how many of these threads have been made in the past twenty years. Anyone have a lot of time?
It's a process. Pikiell is doing okay. He just has to keep improving kids, and make sure if Jay Young ever leaves, he is very certain of his back up.
It's a process. Pikiell is doing okay. He just has to keep improving kids, and make sure if Jay Young ever leaves, he is very certain of his back up.
Totally disagree with most of the discussion regarding taking 5 more years to make the NIT. Right now we are playing without a true penetrating point guard. That is solved next year. So far it is fair to say neither Geo nor Eugene are playing even close to what we have previously seen from each of them. Both are trying to do too much and it has to stop. Coach has put too high expectations on Geo thinking he could replace Corey. It is clear he cannot. With Mc Connell’s Emergence , Geo should play more 2 guard and less point guard. Eugene is trying to replicate Deshawn in the post and that is stagnating the offense . He should let the game come to him and go back to being the offensive rebounding machine and get his points there. If open from three , launch it. However , we have to start playing through the post and inside out. That starts with putting Carter or Johnson down low and feeding them the damn ball. Our guards do not feed the post enough . Maybe then the pass outs to guys set to shoot will improve the shooting percentages.
The freshman, plus Carter are all Big 10 type players , none looking like superstars but definitely decent players , scorers, defenders.. The Geo we know and Eugene we know plus the guys above , when you add Mulcahy , which is a big add, and Young , another nice piece , should definitely be competing for an NIT bid next year. Coach has one scholarship for next year and getting a pure scoring wing or 4 would really help us along . Losing out on Massoud and the Virginian kid, whose name escapes me now , really hurt. But Coach has to find another player like that to add to the bunch I mentioned . We will be right there.
The freshman, plus Carter are all Big 10 type players , none looking like superstars but definitely decent players , scorers, defenders.. The Geo we know and Eugene we know plus the guys above , when you add Mulcahy , which is a big add, and Young , another nice piece , should definitely be competing for an NIT bid next year. Coach has one scholarship for next year and getting a pure scoring wing or 4 would really help us along . Losing out on Massoud and the Virginian kid, whose name escapes me now , really hurt. But Coach has to find another player like that to add to the bunch I mentioned . We will be right there.
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