Ron Harper Jr. Killing it in IS8
- Thread starter dkostus
- Start date
This conversation happens every season but it's worse this year because we only have five players who have suited up for us so there are a lot more unknowns. No harm in speculating of course but there's even less "information" than usual since only Baker, Duke, Doorson, Thiam, and Omoruyi have Big Ten experience.
Yeah. And everyone loves the shiny new objects and assumes they will be great. Either way, I think the roster has been upgraded tremendously.
I don't think there's any question about that top to bottom. The big thing to watch is how the offense evolves from having a clear top talent (Corey) to being more balanced. I'm a pessimist at heart but I'm actually bullish on the talent. However we need to see this coaching staff implement a capable offense. Obviously we had a talent problem these past two years but even considering the low ceiling the offense was a letdown.
Yeah, totally... You have five guys returning, all of whom have been developing or getting healthy, so you'd like to think that Geo, Thiam, Eugene and Doucoure all take a step forward and that Doorson is healthy and in great shape for once. So you already have an upgrade there. Then roster turnover, I'd have to say I'll take the incoming group on the right, all together, over the group on the left, even given Sanders
- Sanders vs. Montez Mathis
- Williams vs. Peter Kiss
- Freeman vs. Shaq Carter
- Candido vs. Myles Johnson
- Mensah vs. Caleb McConnell
- Bullock vs. Ron Harper Jr.
It's such a young roster that turnovers are going to go way up. Bad passes, traveling, etc. So we'd better get ready for that. But the shooting will be way better. Interior play and rebounding are going to be key. Doucoure needs major improvement on the offensive end (he has a good-looking shot but his 2P% numbers are poor for a guy his size), defensively (defend without fouling), and rebounding (too often a non-factor). Let's hope his decision to reclassify and get the experience pays off. And we'll see how well we replace the rebounding of Williams, Freeman when he was trying, and even Sanders.
And hopefully with better shooting the spacing will be better and we won't need to settle for so many long two-point jump shots.
And hopefully with better shooting the spacing will be better and we won't need to settle for so many long two-point jump shots.
Not worried about bad passes and traveling. Shooting will be a bit better overall, but the offense will definitely look better and improve throughout the season into next year. Not worried about rebounding with our length and Pike's coaching and the effort he demands. I do worry about this roster on the defensive end the next couple years with only average foot speed and athleticism overall. No super quick twitch guards coupled with no great rim protector/shot blocker means you need to rely on positioning, length, effort and teamwork. Hopefully guys like Thiam and Mathis can key the defense the next couple years, and we can remain above average in that area. Coupled with the best offense we have had here in forever, hopefully it results in some postseason berths.
For the record ...I have only suggested redshirted him is a possibility if he is still growing (as some have reported) and his future is at the four spot.
He reminds me of Keith Hughes who played the four here at Rutgers. I think Harper can be that same kinds of mismatch who will pull less mobile four men away from the hoop and shoot the three or drive off the bounce ...that wing Span is a difference
He reminds me of Keith Hughes who played the four here at Rutgers. I think Harper can be that same kinds of mismatch who will pull less mobile four men away from the hoop and shoot the three or drive off the bounce ...that wing Span is a difference
I'm not worried about who gets minutes...that is what coach is paid big bucks for. And I trust he will handle it well. Everyone who has talent and can contribute and play Pike's brand of ball will get minutes. I don't think anyone gets redshirted, but that is not my call to make. But if Harper can help as a 3 next year, then that is who he is. We need that help there next year. If he becomes a stretch-4 by his junior and senior year, then that is his arc as a player for us. But I wouldn't redshirt him to develop him into a position that is an uncertainty for him. He, and all of the players don't need to be defined that stringently. He's a baller who can help, especially with our anemic outside shooting game. So he plays. I don't worry about Thiam. He knows he needs to keep improving his game since he has more competition. If he does, then we have a good thing there. If he doesn't, then he concedes minutes to the better, younger player.
It will be a rollercoaster ride next year, but I am so excited for it. We get a year head start to reconfigure our offensive paradigm from the "Corey Years" of him being relied on way too much and no legit outside shooters emerging to help him out. A better style of offense should emerge.
This paradigm shift will have painful moments. There will be WTF losses to inferior teams. There will be heartbreaking losses to better teams where the potential of this team will emerge but we'll fall short of finishing the job. We'll have games where we'll see the glimmers of potential from each of the newcomers. We'll have amazing victories where we'll all be busting with excitement at the future of the program.
The team, and there new players will all have highs and lows. Some will get off to hot starts and hit a wall at some point, and others will start slow and figure things out later on...it's all a beautiful, exciting mess. Just don't get too worked up and upset if things go wrong. Have fun watching this "process." I think back fondly at the RU football rebuild and "process" and those important wins, especially in the 2005 season. But there were way too many setbacks from 2001 to 2004 because of Schiano's deficiencies as a head coach. RU basketball will have setbacks too, and this "process" will have setbacks, but I think they will be far fewer and less painful than what we had to endure with Schiano, and a major reason is because I believe Pike is just a better all-around coach than Schiano, and he'll prove it in the next few years
It will be a rollercoaster ride next year, but I am so excited for it. We get a year head start to reconfigure our offensive paradigm from the "Corey Years" of him being relied on way too much and no legit outside shooters emerging to help him out. A better style of offense should emerge.
This paradigm shift will have painful moments. There will be WTF losses to inferior teams. There will be heartbreaking losses to better teams where the potential of this team will emerge but we'll fall short of finishing the job. We'll have games where we'll see the glimmers of potential from each of the newcomers. We'll have amazing victories where we'll all be busting with excitement at the future of the program.
The team, and there new players will all have highs and lows. Some will get off to hot starts and hit a wall at some point, and others will start slow and figure things out later on...it's all a beautiful, exciting mess. Just don't get too worked up and upset if things go wrong. Have fun watching this "process." I think back fondly at the RU football rebuild and "process" and those important wins, especially in the 2005 season. But there were way too many setbacks from 2001 to 2004 because of Schiano's deficiencies as a head coach. RU basketball will have setbacks too, and this "process" will have setbacks, but I think they will be far fewer and less painful than what we had to endure with Schiano, and a major reason is because I believe Pike is just a better all-around coach than Schiano, and he'll prove it in the next few years
Very much this.
Really excited to see how it all plays out this year, while also tempering expectations because we have so many new moving parts.
Almost every positions will be a horse race with few clear favorites out of the gate - we may see two (or three) players neck and neck at a given position on the floor throughout the season, or we may see one pull away. I expect to see multiple starting lineups throughout the year as the roster sorts itself out and Pike gets a better feel for the group.
The only player I expect to have starter minutes locked down is Baker, and to a lesser extent Omoruyi (though he's still a bit undersized for a 4, and Carter may push him).
Still, we have legitimate competition at every spot on the floor, whereas last year we had a lot of solidified starters going into the season.
don't understand your reply but maybe I wasn't clear. What I meant was I am excited as it has bee a LOONG time since we had so much talent/options to try and get on the floor and figure out the best mix.
My point is that you simply don't know that. It's off-season guesswork. We have a last place team that lost top scorers and will have lots of new players who are in HS right now and some who sat out last year. Some fans, as happens every off season, are speculating they will be good, and that this and that player already on the roster will improve significantly to make up for the players who have left, or that the mere leaving of the players who have left will improve the team. To me, this reads like same old, same old.
Until the season is underway and we are deep into B1G regular season play, this is ordinary off season guesswork.
So we'll see. Sure, it's possible that this new crop of recruits and those who sat out last year will hit the ground playing exceedingly well and show that we have "so much talent." Let's hope. But for now its just hope.
In short, it has not been a LOONG time since we've seen what we see in this thread. If long-term play actually matches the speculation in this thread, well then you might be able to talk about what we haven't seen in a long time.
No doubt that they'll be more competition. That happens when starters leave. It's a different question as to whether there is an uptick in talent.
You're not wrong that we need to see it on the Court. That being said, the talent coming in is undeniably the best since 2011 at least according to the recruiting services, so there's definitely some reason for optimism. Other than us just being bored and having fun with speculation...
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
harper would be best served with a redshirt year, not sure that happens though. He needs to drop about 20 pounds.
Will benefit from the weight room, but the kid doesn't need to lose a pound. Matt Bullock saw time on this team looking like a bowling ball, the 4-star 3 point shooter, that's been putting up some pretty impressive highlight dunks in addition to the shooting, isn't "out of shape" and isn't red-shirting. In a perfect worls we'd be able to red-shirt people every year but I still don't think it would be this kid.
The only two times in the last decade we've had a roster of 12 players heading into the season were 2016 and 2011.
In 2016, we had the excitement of a new coach, but there was still some lingering pain from the prior season and overall less excitement around the newcomers.
In 2011, there was huge excitement after signing a deep, talented class.
Definitely excited for next year, almost as much as I was in 2011.
In 2016, we had the excitement of a new coach, but there was still some lingering pain from the prior season and overall less excitement around the newcomers.
In 2011, there was huge excitement after signing a deep, talented class.
Definitely excited for next year, almost as much as I was in 2011.
Optimism as to this particular recruiting class. Sure. As to the entire roster and "so much talent," that's by no means sure.
I would feel comfortable in saying what i was hearing last year about Baker being an upgrade over Nigel Johnson....the same concept applies to Montez Mathis this year. There will be ups and downs with any freshman but Mathis is the safest player in the class that is likely to earn minutes as a starter.
I think the more reliable the player is, gives flexibility to bring that piece in off the bench. Eugene is assuredly going to give RU 20-24 hard fought minutes...question is whether that energy is best suited off the bench or as a starter.
Fans trying to figure out "lineups", need to first not look at the starting 5 as the best five....while that may work in 5th grade rec leagues or freshman HS, what the team looks like after a 1st TV timeout is as important as the 1st 4 minutes...finding points off the bench is more likely with Kiss, Eugene and perhaps Jacob Young in a year as well.
I see Mathis and Carter as more than likely to be best suited to play the 1st 3 or 4 minutes of each half as starters, vs them being the 1st off the bench 4 to 5 minutes into a game.
I could argue that even a player like Harper could be best suited for spacing on the court, better suited as a starter at the SF or 3, vs asking him to come off the bench....Thiam could be a more reliable 16-18 minute player off the bench......the goal is to maximize the production of the entire roster and what players can produce off the bench....
Can Harper's ceiling or shooting provide enough passing lanes for others when he's on the court......can he learn the defensive rotations to stay on the court to take advantage of his shooting on offense??
There's a lot to sort out and it may not bear fruit for 30-40-50 games....usually rebuilds with this type of turnover takes a year and a half to sort out.
I think the more reliable the player is, gives flexibility to bring that piece in off the bench. Eugene is assuredly going to give RU 20-24 hard fought minutes...question is whether that energy is best suited off the bench or as a starter.
Fans trying to figure out "lineups", need to first not look at the starting 5 as the best five....while that may work in 5th grade rec leagues or freshman HS, what the team looks like after a 1st TV timeout is as important as the 1st 4 minutes...finding points off the bench is more likely with Kiss, Eugene and perhaps Jacob Young in a year as well.
I see Mathis and Carter as more than likely to be best suited to play the 1st 3 or 4 minutes of each half as starters, vs them being the 1st off the bench 4 to 5 minutes into a game.
I could argue that even a player like Harper could be best suited for spacing on the court, better suited as a starter at the SF or 3, vs asking him to come off the bench....Thiam could be a more reliable 16-18 minute player off the bench......the goal is to maximize the production of the entire roster and what players can produce off the bench....
Can Harper's ceiling or shooting provide enough passing lanes for others when he's on the court......can he learn the defensive rotations to stay on the court to take advantage of his shooting on offense??
There's a lot to sort out and it may not bear fruit for 30-40-50 games....usually rebuilds with this type of turnover takes a year and a half to sort out.
this sort of has the feel of when, in Rice's 2nd year, RU had 7 new players, including Eli Carter, Jack, and Mack. There were very big highs--the OT home win vs Florida, and some lows. That group may have been ranked better than this one--certainly Carter was electric as a freshman, and Jack and Mack were also starters and had impacts. That team also had Biruta and Miller I think.
I'm not placing any expectations of who will do what and when...it's all potential right now, and fans will wear shades...hopefully competition and another year of development for returning players will continue to show collective improvement...
I'm not placing any expectations of who will do what and when...it's all potential right now, and fans will wear shades...hopefully competition and another year of development for returning players will continue to show collective improvement...
but year 2 of Rice had the beginnings of him losing his team due to his "style." I don't see that with Pike
LOL ok....been into RU BBall since '76.....and if you think this is average for the Littlepaige thru Rice years..ok. I never said anything was guaranteed.
I can think of 2 other times since Young left that we had a full team of potential coming on..Rice year 1 and Bannon with Geof, Daghntey, and Rob. And even then there was little question as to who was going to play. So this makes 3 in what, 20 years? I simply said the excitement level is high and the fact we can even have a debate like a true frosh playing over a 2 year Jr starter is good. That's my POV.
The excitement level is high? Maybe among a couple dozen of the fans on this board. Everywhere else, RU basketbal is at or near an all time low of excitement and all time high of apathy.
All time low for excitement and all time high for apathy?
This is not correct in any way, it's quite ridiculous.
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Nah, there was actual excitement from Rutgers fans at the Big Ten tournament. Unless you think all of them post here.
And...... there was actual buzz about the program from more local media in NYC and some media outlets outside the NY/NJ Metro area.
almost completely agree here....but after the garden showing I think we're quite a bit off the bottom. And I was only referring to this forum and the core fans.
Buzz is a funny word. Not sure what it means. But, yes, for two days during the tournament, there was more interest in RU. And it helped that it was during a tournament that, in and of itself, is popular and, for that one year, was near Rutgers.
But that's over, and it's willful blindness to ignore the yet-another year of crazy low attendance and apathy that preceded it. It's willful blindness to not see the relatively sad building the RAC has become with small crowds and mostly aging diehards attending.
This is not to say that winning can't turn this around and quickly. But if you think there's buzz around this program now, I invite you to see the crowds when this season starts. If RU plays like it did last year, or worse, you'll have the same season, crowd-wise, as you had this year--or worse (though there's not much more downside to explore at this point).
The buzz is in your head.
But that's over, and it's willful blindness to ignore the yet-another year of crazy low attendance and apathy that preceded it. It's willful blindness to not see the relatively sad building the RAC has become with small crowds and mostly aging diehards attending.
This is not to say that winning can't turn this around and quickly. But if you think there's buzz around this program now, I invite you to see the crowds when this season starts. If RU plays like it did last year, or worse, you'll have the same season, crowd-wise, as you had this year--or worse (though there's not much more downside to explore at this point).
The buzz is in your head.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
He can shoot the lights out thats for sure but he gets gassed way too easily. He needs to get in better shape because he doesnt play a lick of defense
Only where you land Paul Mulcahy, Montez Mathis, Ron Harper Jr, Shaq Carter, McConnell and get a rotation player from a Shaka Smart coached program, does a fan believe that happens without positive momentum in a program.
If buzz is based on attendance on a November or December weeknight game during the approaching holidays, then i would agree...but there wasnt a bigger story in late February or March than RUs 3 day run at MSG....you would have had to be out of the region entirely or on vacation without cable TV somewhere...smh
I don't think any big ten coaches look forward to playing Rutgers anymore. So whether national excitement is high or not is one thing...but what's important is those exposed to the program are seeing these changes. Indiana fans probably don't think of us as nothing anymore after the end of their season.
You hit the nail on the head. Coaches in the B1G expect Rutgers to be a tough game going forward. It's the fans of B1G schools who are still learning this.
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