Rutgers Men's Lacrosse Has Second Straight Ranked Road Matchup At Loyola Saturday

[Caliknight]

Cali

if the buyout was not an issue, would you keep Brecht? If no buyout, what would have to happen to replace the coach?

I realize you know your stuff. You are also a homer like WNG on the wrestling board. Removing being a homer, wants your solution? If it is recruiting, are staff changes needed?

No. Brian is a great coach. He’s taken us farther than anyone before him, tournament aside. And he’s done it with one hand behind his back. With the new facility and finally having a team with the full allotment of scholarships, we can finally say we are on a level playing field. Or at least close to it. There are simply some programs out there that are so ahead of the curve I’m not sure we can get to that level but we will be much closer than we have been. Recruiting is fine. We have talent everywhere except one spot.

 

[knight82]

With our face off problems I can see us winning only a handful of games this year. I'm talking maybe only 4 or 5 total wins on the season

 

[RUTrack94]

Very happy the game against a ranked team on the road was close ... if RU can win 40% of face offs in a game they have a chance,

 

[Golfer2019]

Game could have gone in a big time bad direction yesterday in the 2nd half...instead, the kids rallied together and fought hard...the young men didn't quit and they were within a changed call, or a bounce or two from a huge win...I was at the game, great atmosphere...and it was pressure packed...RU battled...it wasn't a win, I get it, but after what happened last week...the game yesterday was a step forward...frankly to even take the lead on 44's rip with 5 min left while going like 2/24 at the FO/X is pretty much a miracle...you DO NOT win games doing that...

I get it...winning is what everyone wants...in the end, it's what you're measured on...

The FO issue is massive....the staff needs to solve for it, and figure it out now...

Gotta win on Sat v SB...and move on from there...

Not much else I have to say or add on the board...

 

[CERU00]

Game could have gone in a big time bad direction yesterday in the 2nd half...instead, the kids rallied together and fought hard...the young men didn't quit and they were within a changed call, or a bounce or two from a huge win...I was at the game, great atmosphere...and it was pressure packed...RU battled...it wasn't a win, I get it, but after what happened last week...the game yesterday was a step forward...frankly to even take the lead on 44's rip with 5 min left while going like 2/24 at the FO/X is pretty much a miracle...you DO NOT win games doing that...

I get it...winning is what everyone wants...in the end, it's what you're measured on...

The FO issue is massive....the staff needs to solve for it, and figure it out now...

Gotta win on Sat v SB...and move on from there...

Not much else I have to say or add on the board...

The FO problem has been ongoing for a few years and has only gotten worse. Not sure what they can do about it now. Is it really that difficult? I just don't get it. Someone has to be capable of picking it up...

 

[rufamily]

The entire lacrosse world knew we had to address faceoffs and the coach forgot to address it...joke

he did not forget he brought in one of the top JUCO kids in the country, I believe that they felt the Ott would be ready for the season and they also got a little hurt with their JR Fogo transferring down a level to play. It is not just the Fogo as we need improved wing play as well.

 

[rufamily]

Recruiting. We lost a late flip to Syracuse for a kid that would be starting. The other kid Ott we did get blew his knee out last year. He'd be starting now if not. Faceoff spot is a huge roll of the dice. Outside of a couple of can't miss kids, you don't know. Think of some of the best kids ever. Many weren't highly recruited. It's just a weird, different thing than every other spot. You don't know how these kids are going to pan out.

But we've been especially unlucky. We have a kid coming next year that looks the part. Guess we will see. Wish he was here this year.

It's really disheartening as a fan and as a kid on the team. You have some other pieces. Good pieces. But they are hugely impacted by the inability to get the ball.

2-23. And we lost by 1. We scored 11 goals, 1 less than Uva did whose offense is very very good. If I saw the stats of that game without the score, I'd say it was an Army type score. 20-5 or something.

Unfortunately, we play some very high powered offensive teams still to come with good faceoff. That's a recipe for what we don't want to see.

Actually, lost that flip to Cuse in the 2020 class and he is considered one of the better kids in the class. we did however miss out on a transfer kid last year as the Fogo who is now at UPenn was seriously considering RU first. We are a tourney team last year and this year with him.
FOGO recruiting is weird as some of them develop later or you do not see until later. The kid Baptiste (from Denver) was actually spotted by some kids on the team at Denver while playing with them at a summer event in NJ. (War at the Shore). Kids told Tierney who watched him in the fall and offered him after.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

No. Brian is a great coach.

"great"??

 

[Caliknight]

"great"??

With what he has had to work with, yea. He's competed and beaten teams with far more resources than he has.

The tournament is tough to make. Get it. No excuses even though we clearly did enough two years to be there. Even so, we can mark that as incomplete.

However, we've beaten more ranked teams under him than anyone, he brought us to a number 1 ranking in the country (no other current RU coach has done this) and is graduating almost every kid who is leaving here having won more games than anyone before them.

Let's see what he can do with proper facilities and a fully funded program.

 

[Caliknight]

Actually, lost that flip to Cuse in the 2020 class and he is considered one of the better kids in the class. we did however miss out on a transfer kid last year as the Fogo who is now at UPenn was seriously considering RU first. We are a tourney team last year and this year with him.
FOGO recruiting is weird as some of them develop later or you do not see until later. The kid Baptiste (from Denver) was actually spotted by some kids on the team at Denver while playing with them at a summer event in NJ. (War at the Shore). Kids told Tierney who watched him in the fall and offered him after.

And he was going to Franklin and Marshall before that.

 

[gef21]

The FO problem has been ongoing for a few years and has only gotten worse. Not sure what they can do about it now. Is it really that difficult? I just don't get it. Someone has to be capable of picking it up...

Is this real? A FOGO is not just someone who can pick it up. It is an extremely specialized position. It is above reaction time, moves, counter moves, and ball skills.

 

[Caliknight]

Is this real? A FOGO is not just someone who can pick it up. It is an extremely specialized position. It is above reaction time, moves, counter moves, and ball skills.

Lol. Yea, all they need to do is pick the ball up. That's pretty funny.

 

[CERU00]

Is this real? A FOGO is not just someone who can pick it up. It is an extremely specialized position. It is above reaction time, moves, counter moves, and ball skills.

I believe you. But this makes it even more inexplicable that we don't have a player for one of the most specialized positions in all of sports.

 

[gef21]

I believe you. But this makes it even more inexplicable that we don't have a player for one of the most specialized positions in all of sports.

It's also about match ups. Who has what counter move, what style, etc. Sometimes it's really hit or miss how a kid will soon college.

 

[koleszar]

It's also about match ups. Who has what counter move, what style, etc. Sometimes it's really hit or miss how a kid will soon college.

Well we've certainly got the "miss" part down pat.

 

[asgot]

Oh boy this does not get any easier either. Looking at the US Lacrosse stats you would see 5 fogo’s out of the top 20 are from NJ. Including a kid who was once committed to Rutgers. All of the 5 are above 60%.
Our overall faceoff percentage is 32% of our remaking games only Lafayette is close at 38% every other team is at 50% or above.Please don’t tell me it is about the kids not wanting to go there as I heard that there are two very good fogos in the area that both wanted to go to Rutgers and were told no thank you.

 

[mdk01]

Loyola 15 Towson 6 tonight

 

[Caliknight]

Loyola is a young, but very good team. Lots of lacrosse to go. We lost, and that's the only thing that truly matters. But we were equal or better than them in a lot of phases of the game, save the obvious.

Hopefully we can build off of it. Stony Brook isn't a team we are just going to roll over. They just beat Hofstra and Brown. And they look to have, you guessed it, a face off guy.

 

[Golfer2019]

Loyola 15 Towson 6 tonight

I was there tonight...and just arrived at my hotel in New Brunswick...long drive up in the rain...

Towson is really struggling...now 0-4. They hung with Loyola through 3 qtrs....then Loyola opened the floodgates on them...Loyola is young, but they have a very very good defense, and yes, a top end fogo

It was a damp rainy night in Baltimore

Hoping for a good performance on Saturday for the RU men vs SB...it won't be easy...nothing will be

Glad to be back on the banks

 

[mdk01]

I was there tonight...and just arrived at my hotel in New Brunswick...long drive up in the rain...

Towson is really struggling...now 0-4. They hung with Loyola through 3 qtrs....then Loyola opened the floodgates on them...Loyola is young, but they have a very very good defense, and yes, a top end fogo

It was a damp rainy night in Baltimore

Hoping for a good performance on Saturday for the RU men vs SB...it won't be easy...nothing will be

Glad to be back on the banks

A couple more goals. Congratulations

 

[gef21]

Oh boy this does not get any easier either. Looking at the US Lacrosse stats you would see 5 fogo’s out of the top 20 are from NJ. Including a kid who was once committed to Rutgers. All of the 5 are above 60%.
Our overall faceoff percentage is 32% of our remaking games only Lafayette is close at 38% every other team is at 50% or above.Please don’t tell me it is about the kids not wanting to go there as I heard that there are two very good fogos in the area that both wanted to go to Rutgers and were told no thank you.

Grading out the average of our first 4 games we rate a 74%. Our save and FOGO percent (for our first 4 games) puts us at a 69.1% rating. Adding in our shooting percentage helps us get to 74. The goal is to shoot at a 27.5 % and we are shooting at a 30% which boosts our grade.

Shockingly grading out the average of our first 4 opponents the average is a 98 for them.

Looking at just the Army game we rated an insanely low 16. We shot 11%, we saved 28%, and we only won 31% of the faceoffs. Army rated a whopping 145 (including shooting a very high 38%).

Now what does the date show besides the obvious? Shows even more how important effective possessions are for us. I know we want to be a run and gun team but with the lack of possessions off of the face, and inconsistency in goal, long methodical possessions may play better into where we are right now.

Just my thoughts on if I scouted us

 

[knight82]

It's one thing to be bad at face offs. But we are beyond bad. We lose almost every single one. You can't beat a good team that way no matter how good you are at other phases of the game

 

[JJboys38]

No doubt we are missing a strong fogo and the junior that transferred out is missed. Ott is coming back this season and next years incoming freshman is very good i saw him play last summer and easily handled my sons club fogos (one is a Drexel commit the other is going to Muhlenbereg) Its a long season with Ott coming back we should get stronger at the position.

 

[DowntownT_Brown]

Grading out the average of our first 4 games we rate a 74%. Our save and FOGO percent (for our first 4 games) puts us at a 69.1% rating. Adding in our shooting percentage helps us get to 74. The goal is to shoot at a 27.5 % and we are shooting at a 30% which boosts our grade.

Shockingly grading out the average of our first 4 opponents the average is a 98 for them.

Looking at just the Army game we rated an insanely low 16. We shot 11%, we saved 28%, and we only won 31% of the faceoffs. Army rated a whopping 145 (including shooting a very high 38%).

Now what does the date show besides the obvious? Shows even more how important effective possessions are for us. I know we want to be a run and gun team but with the lack of possessions off of the face, and inconsistency in goal, long methodical possessions may play better into where we are right now.

Just my thoughts on if I scouted us

This is the kind of analysis I would pay for! Couldn't agree more, it isn't our style but putting a premium on valuing possession seems to be our best shot at success.

 

[rufamily]

This is the kind of analysis I would pay for! Couldn't agree more, it isn't our style but putting a premium on valuing possession seems to be our best shot at success.

uptempo is the coaching staff's style and the kids love playing that style, we just need to be smarter in our opportunities when it comes to early offense.

the unintended consequence of our face-off struggles is that we as an offense feel the need to score every time we touch the ball, which leads to poor shot selection and rushed possessions and then super long possession which takes us out of our natural flow on offense.

 

[DowntownT_Brown]

uptempo is the coaching staff's style and the kids love playing that style, we just need to be smarter in our opportunities when it comes to early offense.

the unintended consequence of our face-off struggles is that we as an offense feel the need to score every time we touch the ball, which leads to poor shot selection and rushed possessions and then super long possession which takes us out of our natural flow on offense.

Yes, for sure and I think this is the age old question for coaches - Do we play to our strengths to hedge our faults even if it is counter to the system/culture we are trying to build or just run the system despite some pieces not fitting? As a fan I think I would prefer the former and hope we can grind out some wins.


Of course if we play a boring game and still can't win that can be counter-productive.

 

[Caliknight]

uptempo is the coaching staff's style and the kids love playing that style, we just need to be smarter in our opportunities when it comes to early offense.

the unintended consequence of our face-off struggles is that we as an offense feel the need to score every time we touch the ball, which leads to poor shot selection and rushed possessions and then super long possession which takes us out of our natural flow on offense.

This. It's becoming obvious we need to convert at a high level on offense. The problem is the kids play tight because they feel the aren't going to see the ball for awhile regardless of outcome.

We are built to run and gun. The players have been coached that way, that's how the coaches see the game, and that's what's been practiced.

It's hard to just go to a possession game when that isn't what you do.

Everyone knew we are going to struggle at the x but I don't think anyone thought it would be this bad.

That one position has such an effect on the whole team/game.

I would continue to tell the kids run our offense. If we get blown out because of it, then that is the result. But we aren't changing just to lose to keep it close.

I think the second half of the Loyola game was a little bit of a wake up call. We can still compete doing what we do and losing faceoffs.

 

[rbled]

If I were Brecht I would have had the middies doing nothing but man-ball drills all week. Can’t manufacture a competent fogo over night but you can certainly compete for and win the majority of 50/50 GBs. Nothing but effort and desire.

 

[mdk01]

If I were Brecht I would have had the middies doing nothing but man-ball drills all week. Can’t manufacture a competent fogo over night but you can certainly compete for and win the majority of 50/50 GBs. Nothing but effort and desire.

They did make an adjustment in the Loyola game. At the beginning both the wings were right on the midfield line. That was a disaster. They adjusted and put one farther down by the Loyola restraining line. At least that cut off the fast break. I think they also used a long stick to face off later on.

 

[rbled]

They did make an adjustment in the Loyola game. At the beginning both the wings were right on the midfield line. That was a disaster. They adjusted and put one farther down by the Loyola restraining line. At least that cut off the fast break. I think they also used a long stick to face off later on.

They did, but if you are going to use a long pole on faceoffs then you are counting on the wings to win the GB battle more often then not. They prevented the break but we still got doubled up on GBs and we only won 2 faceoffs. We’re likely to have to use this strategy often this year but we will have to do a much better job fighting for loose balls. E we don’t have to dominate faceoffs, we just need to win our share.

 

[Caliknight]

They did, but if you are going to use a long pole on faceoffs then you are counting on the wings to win the GB battle more often then not. They prevented the break but we still got doubled up on GBs and we only won 2 faceoffs. We’re likely to have to use this strategy often this year but we will have to do a much better job fighting for loose balls. E we don’t have to dominate faceoffs, we just need to win our share.

I don't think that was the strategy. We moved another pole up to the wing and had their slowest attackman covered with a shorty. If there wasn't a tie up right away, the strategy looked to be, should the fogo win it clean, shut off everything and force the fogo make a play of some kind. I would definitely employ this strategy moving forward. Not exclusively, but you have to mix it in. Especially if the fogo isn't the best athlete. I'd also mix in #3 in the face off spot. He's done it before and he is quick. I like the odds of him mixing it up with a less athletic fogo.

 

[rufamily]

They did, but if you are going to use a long pole on faceoffs then you are counting on the wings to win the GB battle more often then not. They prevented the break but we still got doubled up on GBs and we only won 2 faceoffs. We’re likely to have to use this strategy often this year but we will have to do a much better job fighting for loose balls. E we don’t have to dominate faceoffs, we just need to win our share.

There are a couple of strategies to be employed when facing off with a pole - 1 is to tie him and a fight for the Gb, the next is to stand up as he wins and then attack what is normally a slightly less athletic player. lastly, you could simply defend the break with the defensive side wing player cutting off the break but you would give up the face off win going back.
Good coaches and fogo's have responses for everything that you try and do. Go back to the St. John's game and the St. John's Fogo was able to counter everything that we tried to do. as soon as we went to a pole he went back to the wings, changed fogo's he attacked and went forward and broke us 3 times in a row.

all I am saying is that we have to win more face offs I know that our current face off guy is working very hard to improve

 

[rbled]

I don't think that was the strategy. We moved another pole up to the wing and had their slowest attackman covered with a shorty. If there wasn't a tie up right away, the strategy looked to be, should the fogo win it clean, shut off everything and force the fogo make a play of some kind. I would definitely employ this strategy moving forward. Not exclusively, but you have to mix it in. Especially if the fogo isn't the best athlete. I'd also mix in #3 in the face off spot. He's done it before and he is quick. I like the odds of him mixing it up with a less athletic fogo.

There are a couple of strategies to be employed when facing off with a pole - 1 is to tie him and a fight for the Gb, the next is to stand up as he wins and then attack what is normally a slightly less athletic player. lastly, you could simply defend the break with the defensive side wing player cutting off the break but you would give up the face off win going back.
Good coaches and fogo's have responses for everything that you try and do. Go back to the St. John's game and the St. John's Fogo was able to counter everything that we tried to do. as soon as we went to a pole he went back to the wings, changed fogo's he attacked and went forward and broke us 3 times in a row.

all I am saying is that we have to win more face offs I know that our current face off guy is working very hard to improve

Agree with both of you. I am simply saying that regardless of the exact strategy, whether it is to force it to a draw and get it to a GB battle, shut off and force the fogo to carry or force them to push back and cut off the break, ultimately any time you at conceding the draw somewhere along the way the goal has to be to get the other team to put the ball on the ground. When they do our guys have to be foaming at the mouth to win the GB battle. Otherwise it really doesn’t matter what the strategy is the net result will be the same — the other team dominating possessions.

The ultimate answer is obviously to get better at faceoffs so we can win some draws straight up and not be forced to concede.