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Schiano versus Leipold

What intrigues me about him is his offenses are super creative and fun to watch, the kids play very hard, and he's beating teams with higher ranked recruiting classes.
Getting teams to play over their heads is the only way to make a splash and get better recruiting. It's a fantasy to think you're going to get better by recruiting better when you're not giving top recruits reason to commit to you. They want to see results not just hear a lot of open promises about being good sometime down the road.
 
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That's a big problem with our fanbase. NJ is a, shall we say different place, but it isn't Mars.

Leipold could have been successful here. and frankly, he's the type of innovative winning coach we need when Schiano leaves. That's the only way we are going to have a hope to compete in this league. His offense is fun to watch and the kids play HARD.

Maybe - but for every one up and coming hire that succeeds like this, far more turn out like what’s happening to the guy you wanted to bring in (Hafley). By all counts, if any fan base should be starting a fund to fire their coach based on performance to date it would have to be BC. That’s the problem. Also - it’s not necessarily a given that Leipold will have the same success at his next stop.

Equating 2019 change to a game of black Jack, in bringing Schiano back, we basically settled for a playable hand of 17 or 18. Not likely to win that often, but safe bet to stay in the game and get out of laughing stock status. With many of the other options, it was like we’d be choosing to hit on a hand of 16 knowing the most likely outcome would be a bust. We couldn’t afford for that to happen. Our fans forget how low we had fallen.
 
Maybe Daniels isn’t out for the season lol, despite the earlier report. Leipold did say he was doubtful for the upcoming OU game but I don’t think had said anything about being out for the year.





Blurb on Bean’s stats for the TCU game.

Bean finished 16-of-24 for 262 yards, matched a career best with the four TD throws and added 34 yards rushing. But he also threw an inexplicable interception deep in Kansas territory, and TCU reached the end zone five plays later.

Still, it was an impressive performance on short notice, and now Bean will have first-team reps all week in practice to get ready for the Sooners, who are coming off an embarrassing 49-0 loss to Texas in the Red River Showdown.

"It's really a credit to him. We all recognize that," Leipold said of the dual-threat quarterback from Mansfield, Texas. "I stood here in August and talked about [Bean] playing well, and it wasn't just to appease him."

One thing the Jayhawks have going in their favor is that the styles of Bean and Daniels are similar. Both are speedy quarterbacks capable of running the option, scrambling and making plays in space, and that means Leipold and Kansas offensive coordinator Andy Kotelnicki won't have to make wholesale changes to the game plan.
 
Leipold has Les Miles' recruits playing for him. Kansas has a money-making legendary basketball program to lean on. This is not apples to apples. And every year we can find a coach/team who is having a great season to do this "grass is greener" thing with Schiano and we can always count on "R fans" to do just that. I wonder how many programs fans did that in 2006 comparing their coach to Schiano... who they could have had...
 
Jinx is hot today. Leopold 0-2 in the last 2 games.
Losing to a very mediocre Oklahoma.
Don't want to hear about injuries as excuses. That dog does not hunt here.
Sooners are doing poorly this year , but their 3 loses are to current top 25 programs
13-17 & 22
Beat the #19 today
the #13 lost to #8 today
 
Jinx is hot today. Leopold 0-2 in the last 2 games.
Losing to a very mediocre Oklahoma.
Don't want to hear about injuries as excuses. That dog does not hunt here.

Cause we all losing a starting QB has.no impact on an offense
 
Cause we all losing a starting QB has.no impact on an offense
They were losses but Bean seems capable enough in his 1.5 games. They scored 42 today, that’s pretty good. If the offense is productive like that, 1 more win somewhere is very possible.
 
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Cause we all losing a starting QB has.no impact on an offense
no that's an excuse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YLRw.gif
 
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I should add I think they’ve done a good job finding a capable backup compared to some other teams.

Look at NC State without Leary and what their offense looks like. How about Illinois with AS vs DeVito. Kentucky without Levis. Even Alabama has a pretty big drop from Young to Milroe…almost cost them a game.
 
Jinx is hot today. Leopold 0-2 in the last 2 games.
Losing to a very mediocre Oklahoma.
Don't want to hear about injuries as excuses. That dog does not hunt here.
Isn't Oklahoma loaded with talent, though? Aren't we always being told that's all that matters?
 
Leipold has Les Miles' recruits playing for him. Kansas has a money-making legendary basketball program to lean on. This is not apples to apples. And every year we can find a coach/team who is having a great season to do this "grass is greener" thing with Schiano and we can always count on "R fans" to do just that. I wonder how many programs fans did that in 2006 comparing their coach to Schiano... who they could have had...
This is such bullsh*t…. UConn has one of the most storied basketball programs in history as well, they can’t do ANYTHING to get the football program rolling.

funny enough in an extremely similar parallel to Rutgers they also had a coach once in Randy Edsall who also rose them to national prominence for about 3 weeks 15 years ago… they also tried bringing that coach back after edsall had blown through Every other opportunity… and like other instances where recycled dinosaurs try to be resurrected… he failed.
You see at Rutgers, we believe the key to success is insanity, so we just went back to our recycled coach…. And guess what? He can’t coach offense, the defense is suspect (we haven’t played against even a an average offense besides osu all year). Greg can’t recruit, he’s hiding injuries, he’s a f*cking disaster….

we just have fans who still refuse to acknowledge it simply because his name is ‘Greg schiano’.
It’ll be interesting to see how this board reacts when we don’t improve upon our win total from last year and don’t have a single 4* or better recruit coming while trying to compete in the Big ten East…. How many more years of losing is it gonna take?

we also HAVE to stop saying ‘but he’s improved things!’ From Ash???? Do you want a cookie? My 3 year old could do a better job than Ash
 
I said this in the games thread with regards to a prior coach's recruits. If it was a winning coach who left, then yea I can see that argument holding water. But if it's a losing coach and in this case many losing coaches over a decade that argument doesn't hold for me. If these said recruits/players were so good then why didn't all those prior coaches win with them. 1.9 wins average over a decade, no season with more than 3 wins, lowest P5 ppg average over the decade and biggest P5 avg margin of loss over a decade. last coach fired in controversy. I've said before if they don't win another game this year, it's been a good year if they're competing in most games considering all that. If they win 6, that's a remarkable job.

Also Kansas has taken quite a few transfers, not sure how many contribute in what roles though. I know Daniels was a Miles recruit and it took an analyst (Brett Dearmon) to identify him but he got no response from the staff. He later was promoted to OC by Miles so he finally had the authority to really advocate for him. Nonetheless though, it was Leipold and staff who developed him into a solid player. Bean their backup isn't a Miles guy and a transfer from UNT He's played 1.5 games both of which they lost but they've still been productive on offense. I can't say there's a big drop off from 1 to 2, which is saying something especially for Kansas. I can't even say that about Alabama from Young to Milroe. Have you seen NC State without Leary? Illinois without DeVito? UK without Levis? So that's a nice job by Kansas to still have a capable backup and fairly functional offense at least so far with Bean.

Consistency matters too though, so I'd like to see what Leipold can do if he sticks around. It's been a good year can it be built on.
 
Haven't you heard, what matters only is a "fun" and "exciting" offense. Preventing the other team from scoring isn't that interesting apparently
OU’s offense is very capable when Gabriel is playing, but not much behind him this year. In that Texas shutout, they played a good portion of that game in the wildcat. Don’t know what Lebby was thinking but tells you what he feels about the backup. Kansas seems to have a more capable backup than OU and some other teams. That’s surprising in itself. They’ve still been productive offensively in the 1.5 games Bean has played, even if they were losses.

On top of which how did that top 10 Alabama defense do against Tenn yesterday? Unless it’s like a UGA level last year type defense quite often these supposed top defensive teams get dragged into shootouts as opposed to stifling the high power offense. MSU Baylor game comes to mind and OU UGA playoff game too. Supposedly tough defensive teams but they have to win in a shootout.

Offense isn’t a guarantee, but it is the avenue with the most potential to make noise and to perform above your status on the landscape.
 
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Haven't you heard, what matters only is a "fun" and "exciting" offense. Preventing the other team from scoring isn't that interesting apparently
If you're going to lose by 3 points 38 to 35 is certainly a lot more interesting than 13 to 10. Or can't you tell by how full our stadium always is?
 
If you're going to lose by 3 points 38 to 35 is certainly a lot more interesting than 13 to 10. Or can't you tell by how full our stadium always is?

It depends. I’d rather be in a tight game the whole way. Wouldn’t prefer a game like Iowa where they are ahead by more than one score the whole way and in the last minute of the game we drive the length with the opponent playing to kill clock to get within 3 points with time expiring. But that’s me.
 
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This is such bullsh*t…. UConn has one of the most storied basketball programs in history as well, they can’t do ANYTHING to get the football program rolling.

funny enough in an extremely similar parallel to Rutgers they also had a coach once in Randy Edsall who also rose them to national prominence for about 3 weeks 15 years ago… they also tried bringing that coach back after edsall had blown through Every other opportunity… and like other instances where recycled dinosaurs try to be resurrected… he failed.
You see at Rutgers, we believe the key to success is insanity, so we just went back to our recycled coach…. And guess what? He can’t coach offense, the defense is suspect (we haven’t played against even a an average offense besides osu all year). Greg can’t recruit, he’s hiding injuries, he’s a f*cking disaster….

we just have fans who still refuse to acknowledge it simply because his name is ‘Greg schiano’.
It’ll be interesting to see how this board reacts when we don’t improve upon our win total from last year and don’t have a single 4* or better recruit coming while trying to compete in the Big ten East…. How many more years of losing is it gonna take?

we also HAVE to stop saying ‘but he’s improved things!’ From Ash???? Do you want a cookie? My 3 year old could do a better job than Ash
C’mon now….at least give Ash some credit. I think a precocious 10 year old could outcoach him. But clear edge to Ash compared to 3 year old. I’ll take Ash laying 13.5
 
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It depends. I’d rather be in a tight game the whole way. Wouldn’t prefer a game like Iowa where they are ahead by more than one score the whole way and in the last minute of the game we drive the length with the opponent playing to kill clock to get within 3 points with time expiring. But that’s me.
If you have a team capable of scoring points a close game is exciting because of course they can win and even if they're behind by 2 or 3 TDs they might come back. The 13 to 10 team can't score so you know that as soon as you fall behind odds are you're going to lose, which is what almost always happens with Schiano teams. That's the difference between strong offense/weak defense and weak offense/strong defense. With the strong offense there is always hope, with the weak offense hope dies as soon as you lose the lead. How many Schiano games have I watched where the team falls behind and I get to watch 2 to 3 quarters of hopeless football as the defense eventually wears down? Too many to count.
 
OU’s offense is very capable when Gabriel is playing, but not much behind him this year. In that Texas shutout, they played a good portion of that game in the wildcat. Don’t know what Lebby was thinking but tells you what he feels about the backup. Kansas seems to have a more capable backup than OU and some other teams. That’s surprising in itself. They’ve still been productive offensively in the 1.5 games Bean has played, even if they were losses.

On top of which how did that top 10 Alabama defense do against Tenn yesterday? Unless it’s like a UGA level last year type defense quite often these supposed top defensive teams get dragged into shootouts as opposed to stifling the high power offense. MSU Baylor game comes to mind and OU UGA playoff game too. Supposedly tough defensive teams but they have to win in a shootout.

Offense isn’t a guarantee, but it is the avenue with the most potential to make noise and to perform above your status on the landscape.

I think it depends. In the B12 you'd be totally correct. But the B10 is a defensive conference for the most part. tOSU puts up a lot of points, Michigan does every so often, but it seems like most B1G games have teams scoring in the 20s. The other conferences land somewhere in the middle.
 
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You had to know once the Leapin Leipold's went down twice the cult of GS hatred would abandon ship.

Look at what happened to Rockin' Randy Edsall. I'm sure he's somewhere never getting blown out.

You have to realize many of us who are acknowledging Leipold is doing a better job than Greg don’t “hate” Greg.

we’re just able to handle the truth a bit better.

Again, I don’t hate Greg. I just hated the hire
 
I think it depends. In the B12 you'd be totally correct. But the B10 is a defensive conference for the most part. tOSU puts up a lot of points, Michigan does every so often, but it seems like most B1G games have teams scoring in the 20s. The other conferences land somewhere in the middle.
That's the thing it may look like the B10 has tough defenses but partially that's because they don't face offenses like you might see in the B12. It's part of why I've always stuck by the most games are potentially winnable for us outside of OSU (and maybe Michigan), despite how poorly we look on offense. The B12 may look like they have lousy defenses but that's partially because they face fast moving productive offenses often unlike the B10. OSU and maybe a little Purdue and Maryland (both inconsistent) and that's about it. Even the SEC supposed defensive conference have had a bunch of productive offenses now from UGA,Alabama to Tenn, Ole Miss, Miss St, Ark, LSU etc..LSU's champ season was on the back of historic offense. Tenn's performance this year is on the back of highly productive offense.

That's why I give you the examples of supposed top defenses and how when they play strong offenses they get dragged into shootouts instead of rock fights. It's an uncommon defense that can hold down really top offenses, like say UGA's last year. Alabama's defense was #2 in the country they said in the game, I thought it #6 but whatever, and they lost 52-49....in regulation lol. Dantonio's MSU against Briles' Baylor...game was in the 40s. Riley's OU vs Smart's UGA and game was 40s and 50s.

Offense is the way to compete for a school like us, not rock fights. It's no guarantee it's just the avenue with the most potential. I've said it before, it could fail and I would still try again and again because that's what I see across the landscape. Illinois is winning with top defense and solid offense but for every one of those, you'll see a WF or TCU or Coastal or Pitt or Tenn performing above their station on the landscape with strong offense. If you have a strong offense with a mediocre defense, you have a decent shot of making some noise.
 
I will say this about Schiano. He is not screwing around! Everyone knew that we had a problem on offense with OC sean Gleason not getting it done. I believed in Sean and unfortunately for both him and Rutgers his scheme did not work. I do not know whether his scheme was flawed or he did not have the personnel to execute or a combination of the two. In anycase, HC Greg Schiano, saw there was a problem and while it is too early to tell whether OC Nunzio Campanile will be able to fix it in the remaining games. The fact that GS took action mid season is very promising and shows he is not screwing around. He knows what it takes to win in this league and at this level. I am more convinced than ever that Greg will get RU to the next level.
 
That's the thing it may look like the B10 has tough defenses but partially that's because they don't face offenses like you might see in the B12. It's part of why I've always stuck by the most games are potentially winnable for us outside of OSU (and maybe Michigan), despite how poorly we look on offense. The B12 may look like they have lousy defenses but that's partially because they face fast moving productive offenses often unlike the B10. OSU and maybe a little Purdue and Maryland (both inconsistent) and that's about it. Even the SEC supposed defensive conference have had a bunch of productive offenses now from UGA,Alabama to Tenn, Ole Miss, Miss St, Ark, LSU etc..LSU's champ season was on the back of historic offense. Tenn's performance this year is on the back of highly productive offense.

That's why I give you the examples of supposed top defenses and how when they play strong offenses they get dragged into shootouts instead of rock fights. It's an uncommon defense that can hold down really top offenses, like say UGA's last year. Alabama's defense was #2 in the country they said in the game, I thought it #6 but whatever, and they lost 52-49....in regulation lol. Dantonio's MSU against Briles' Baylor...game was in the 40s. Riley's OU vs Smart's UGA and game was 40s and 50s.

Offense is the way to compete for a school like us, not rock fights. It's no guarantee it's just the avenue with the most potential. I've said it before, it could fail and I would still try again and again because that's what I see across the landscape. Illinois is winning with top defense and solid offense but for every one of those, you'll see a WF or TCU or Coastal or Pitt or Tenn performing above their station on the landscape with strong offense. If you have a strong offense with a mediocre defense, you have a decent shot of making some noise.
Here you go, see these tweets as an example. Strong offense and mediocre defense is chance, not a guarantee, to make noise and outperform your status on the landscape.



 
Don't you think that means the same thing in this context.. comparing Schiano to Leipold as HC? No one said the "haters" hate GS as a human being.
I’m the one who started this thread and in fact I really like Greg Schiano as head coach. I like that he took. Decisive action regarding the offensive woes and had a back up plan in place. He fired Gleason with class and dignity, and he didn’t have to belittle Sean to do it. I have seen Greg give his post game wrap ups and he has a more mature confidence and demeanor than GS 1.0. I have more confidence in Greg now than I did just a week ago. Just because he is not as far along in development as Lance Leipold steam, doesn’t mean he cannot produce good to great teams in the future.
 
You have to realize many of us who are acknowledging Leipold is doing a better job than Greg don’t “hate” Greg.

we’re just able to handle the truth a bit better.

Again, I don’t hate Greg. I just hated the hire

LOL. Leipold has one less loss with an easier schedule.

You have hated GS (or perhaps your media outlet has) from day 1. Just be honest.
 
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That's the thing it may look like the B10 has tough defenses but partially that's because they don't face offenses like you might see in the B12. It's part of why I've always stuck by the most games are potentially winnable for us outside of OSU (and maybe Michigan), despite how poorly we look on offense. The B12 may look like they have lousy defenses but that's partially because they face fast moving productive offenses often unlike the B10. OSU and maybe a little Purdue and Maryland (both inconsistent) and that's about it. Even the SEC supposed defensive conference have had a bunch of productive offenses now from UGA,Alabama to Tenn, Ole Miss, Miss St, Ark, LSU etc..LSU's champ season was on the back of historic offense. Tenn's performance this year is on the back of highly productive offense.

That's why I give you the examples of supposed top defenses and how when they play strong offenses they get dragged into shootouts instead of rock fights. It's an uncommon defense that can hold down really top offenses, like say UGA's last year. Alabama's defense was #2 in the country they said in the game, I thought it #6 but whatever, and they lost 52-49....in regulation lol. Dantonio's MSU against Briles' Baylor...game was in the 40s. Riley's OU vs Smart's UGA and game was 40s and 50s.

Offense is the way to compete for a school like us, not rock fights. It's no guarantee it's just the avenue with the most potential. I've said it before, it could fail and I would still try again and again because that's what I see across the landscape. Illinois is winning with top defense and solid offense but for every one of those, you'll see a WF or TCU or Coastal or Pitt or Tenn performing above their station on the landscape with strong offense. If you have a strong offense with a mediocre defense, you have a decent shot of making some noise.

We don't face them, so we probably shouldn't worry about them much either. We need to be equipped to win games in this conference. Didn't Illinois win a 9-6 game this year? I could only imagine the meltdown here with a result like that- even being on the winning side of it.
 
This is such bullsh*t…. UConn has one of the most storied basketball programs in history as well, they can’t do ANYTHING to get the football program rolling.

funny enough in an extremely similar parallel to Rutgers they also had a coach once in Randy Edsall who also rose them to national prominence for about 3 weeks 15 years ago… they also tried bringing that coach back after edsall had blown through Every other opportunity… and like other instances where recycled dinosaurs try to be resurrected… he failed.
You see at Rutgers, we believe the key to success is insanity, so we just went back to our recycled coach…. And guess what? He can’t coach offense, the defense is suspect (we haven’t played against even a an average offense besides osu all year). Greg can’t recruit, he’s hiding injuries, he’s a f*cking disaster….

we just have fans who still refuse to acknowledge it simply because his name is ‘Greg schiano’.
It’ll be interesting to see how this board reacts when we don’t improve upon our win total from last year and don’t have a single 4* or better recruit coming while trying to compete in the Big ten East…. How many more years of losing is it gonna take?

we also HAVE to stop saying ‘but he’s improved things!’ From Ash???? Do you want a cookie? My 3 year old could do a better job than Ash
Respectfully, UConn is not a good example for your point
They are not in a football league at all, and being in some league is essential
Only notre dame can get away with that

when UConn basketball joined the big east it signaled they were giving up on any attempt for big time football

the fans know it, as do the football recruits
Dead program walking
 
We don't face them, so we probably shouldn't worry about them much either. We need to be equipped to win games in this conference. Didn't Illinois win a 9-6 game this year? I could only imagine the meltdown here with a result like that- even being on the winning side of it.
Yea they did but it was when DeVito went out and an incapable Sitkowski came in. DeVito came back for the Minnesota game and without him I don't think they would've won and certainly not as easily as they did.

Regardless, more lower status schools make noise and outperform their station on the landscape on the back of offense vs defense. Some even do it with swiss cheese for defense but that lowers your probability of making noise.

Being equipped in this conference, or any for that matter, means you have to score and the greater ability you have to do that the better. A rock fight isn't the avenue with the most potential for a team like us.

I've seen this argument of an ugly win (9-6) is better than a pretty loss (52-49), well duh but that's not the argument or the point. The point isn't about any particular instance. The point is what avenue offers the most potential for consistent winning for schools like us. Offense with some average defense is it from what I see out there. For every Illinois who does it the other way, there are at least a few more that do it with offense.
 
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