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Some day B1G goes back to "leaders & legends"?

RUfromSoCal?

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Anyone catch B1G Live today? Coach D and Ray Lucas were talking about East/West alignment versus L&L and the issues with competitive balance.

I'm not complaining how tough the East is --- and I always though L&L was silly...

But, interesting to see on-going discussion and some thought (even if it's just a "hint") - that current East/West may not be best structure long-term.
 
Until the new divisions cost the B1G money we are stuck where we are. For me, the most telling part was understanding expectations.
 
Doubt they will make a change but if they do they would never call it Leaders and Legends again. That was a really stupid idea!
 
Anyone catch B1G Live today? Coach D and Ray Lucas were talking about East/West alignment versus L&L and the issues with competitive balance.

I'm not complaining how tough the East is --- and I always though L&L was silly...

But, interesting to see on-going discussion and some thought (even if it's just a "hint") - that current East/West may not be best structure long-term

I think the divisions will change but that shake up comes when the BIG expands to 16 schools. Expansion would seem to be inevitable once the college playoff system is seen to pay dividends.

The real question would be does the Big look to make further inroads to the East or give more weight to the demographic statistics showing increased movement towards the sunbelt and the South.

TBD
 
We can all hope there is a shuffle. RU being in the same division as Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan State...4 of the top 15 football PROGRAMS in the country is an enormous obstacle. The divisions are clearly unbalanced. I don't want hear the schpeel about how things change blah blah blah. Yes occasionally schools will have bad years ala Michigan last year or pop up like Illinois did a while back but that's not the norm. At the very least shift Michigan State out to the other division and send Purdue over to this side.

Di Nardo was also lamenting this last week that if you are at Indiana, Maryand, and Rutgers what a big challenge it is to try and keep pace and how the divisions are quite unbalanced.
 
Instead of wanting to realign the divisions, RU needs to change its mentality. Let's figure out what needs to be done to compete with the east division. I would rather play the big teams in the east. Better teams, more exciting games, etc.

Start with

Better Fundraising
Hire a good coach
Recruit better
Better game day coaching
 
We can all hope there is a shuffle. RU being in the same division as Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan State...4 of the top 15 football PROGRAMS in the country is an enormous obstacle. The divisions are clearly unbalanced. I don't want hear the schpeel about how things change blah blah blah. Yes occasionally schools will have bad years ala Michigan last year or pop up like Illinois did a while back but that's not the norm. At the very least shift Michigan State out to the other division and send Purdue over to this side.

Di Nardo was also lamenting this last week that if you are at Indiana, Maryand, and Rutgers what a big challenge it is to try and keep pace and how the divisions are quite unbalanced.
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dude, we were right there this past week.... I mean, right there......learn to live with it

last year we just missed against PU..... this year with MSU.... I frigging love it....the students love it

the recruits appear to love it..... some were stunned by what they saw...

me I want t two or three top 10 teams to visit us every year.....a great setting

If we play lesser teams, the atmosphere is lesser, the excitement is lesser
 
Maryland RU and Indy, just needs to compete (PERIOD).

NO EXCUSES for Maryland and RU not to be in the SAME discussion as OSU, MICH and Penn State. NONE. How wealthy ($$$$$$$$$) is New Jersey and Maryland?????? How much HS talent?????????????????

If we can't get into the same conversation over time as OSU, MICH and Penn State over time, our President and Board are a bunch of hacks.

With that said, the B1G needs to divide OSU, MICH and Penn State and Mich State between the East and West. It is not healthy for the league to have them on one side.
 
Maryland RU and Indy, just needs to compete (PERIOD).

NO EXCUSES for Maryland and RU not to be in the SAME discussion as OSU, MICH and Penn State. NONE. How wealthy ($$$$$$$$$) is New Jersey and Maryland?????? How much HS talent?????????????????

If we can't get into the same conversation over time as OSU, MICH and Penn State over time, our President and Board are a bunch of hacks.

With that said, the B1G needs to divide OSU, MICH and Penn State and Mich State between the East and West. It is not healthy for the league to have them on one side.
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yes..... when we were admitted I had hoped those four teams would be with us, but figured we could
not be that lucky

how could someone have gone to the Michigan state game and then want to have that not happen a couple of times a year?

we should want to rise up to a Ohio state, Michigan state,.... now lets give Ohio state all they can handle

we are in year two, and we were tied with the number 4 team in the country with 4 minutes to go
 
Maryland RU and Indy, just needs to compete (PERIOD).

NO EXCUSES for Maryland and RU not to be in the SAME discussion as OSU, MICH and Penn State. NONE. How wealthy ($$$$$$$$$) is New Jersey and Maryland?????? How much HS talent?????????????????

If we can't get into the same conversation over time as OSU, MICH and Penn State over time, our President and Board are a bunch of hacks.

With that said, the B1G needs to divide OSU, MICH and Penn State and Mich State between the East and West. It is not healthy for the league to have them on one side.

As we've seen over the past 10 years or so, tradition has been taking a back seat in CFB. That said, the B1G will never, ever split up OSU and Michigan. Slightly less etched in stone may be MSU-Michigan because they could make it a permanent cross over game.

For arguments sake lets assume the B1G adds Oklahoma and Va or UNC. If the BiG moves 2 teams, I can't see anything other than switching MSU with Purdue and even that's very unlikely.
 
As we've seen over the past 10 years or so, tradition has been taking a back seat in CFB. That said, the B1G will never, ever split up OSU and Michigan. Slightly less etched in stone may be MSU-Michigan because they could make it a permanent cross over game.

For arguments sake lets assume the B1G adds Oklahoma and Va or UNC. If the BiG moves 2 teams, I can't see anything other than switching MSU with Purdue and even that's very unlikely.
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if we add two teams, just don't make it two east coast teams, one east, one west is best..... if we add
two eastern teams it might damage the great division we are in
 
I wonder how the tv ratings are comparing between the two divisions. The conference might be looking for a way to boost eyeballs on tv for the West.
 
legends and leaders was the dumbest idea ever. The SEC has the same issue with the SEC West being much stronger.
 
It is a zero sum game..:for us to move up the ladder, someone else needs to fall behind us

Got killed, again, for saying right now our short term goal should be to entrench ourselves as #5 in the east

That means beating Indiana and Maryland again and closing the gap a bit against the top 4

Let see how it shakes out
 
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dude, we were right there this past week.... I mean, right there......learn to live with it

last year we just missed against PU..... this year with MSU.... I frigging love it....the students love it

the recruits appear to love it..... some were stunned by what they saw...

me I want t two or three top 10 teams to visit us every year.....a great setting

If we play lesser teams, the atmosphere is lesser, the excitement is lesser


You do realize that every single big ten school considers rutgers the lesser school. Rutgers is the newcomer here. Everyone wants atmosphere. Your view is selfish and isnt in the best interest of the conference. A balanced division actually gives Rutgers access to win a division. The way its configured does not
 
Some of the Big Ten schools would be wrong to consider RU a lesser school and some found that out already. The football schedule will ease up over the next few years but we have to step up in all sports and act like a Big Ten school if we want to be respected by the rest of the league.
 
You do realize that every single big ten school considers rutgers the lesser school. Rutgers is the newcomer here. Everyone wants atmosphere. Your view is selfish and isnt in the best interest of the conference. A balanced division actually gives Rutgers access to win a division. The way its configured does not
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we come in as a weakling, we knew that was probably going to happen... why would you worry about what other teams or fans of teams think?...why should we care
about that?

and yes I am selfish that I love Penn state and Michigan here one year, Ohio state and Mich st the next.....every year, two premier teams in

I am willing to take a few lumps before competing for the title... I would rather do that then have Illinois, purdue or Minn in our division.......

in other words, I am not looking for a short cut to a division title, I would rather grow into an Ohio state....have faith
 
Maryland RU and Indy, just needs to compete (PERIOD).

NO EXCUSES for Maryland and RU not to be in the SAME discussion as OSU, MICH and Penn State. NONE. How wealthy ($$$$$$$$$) is New Jersey and Maryland?????? How much HS talent?????????????????

If we can't get into the same conversation over time as OSU, MICH and Penn State over time, our President and Board are a bunch of hacks.

With that said, the B1G needs to divide OSU, MICH and Penn State and Mich State between the East and West. It is not healthy for the league to have them on one side.
How do you handle the OSU, Michigan and Michigan State rivalry games if you split them? I guess you could lock them in every year as their swing games or whatever they call them.
 
How do you handle the OSU, Michigan and Michigan State rivalry games if you split them? I guess you could lock them in every year as their swing games or whatever they call them.
If the had put Purdue in the East, MSU in the west and protected the MSU-UM game, this would be a much better set up.

It is what it is - eventually they may scrap divisions all together and protect rivalries. Nothing changes until 2020 - I think games are scheduled out until then
 
If the had put Purdue in the East, MSU in the west and protected the MSU-UM game, this would be a much better set up.

It is what it is - eventually they may scrap divisions all together and protect rivalries. Nothing changes until 2020 - I think games are scheduled out until then
You could have made that alignment work. I know that realignment obliterated many longstanding rivalries, which I hate to see. I can't see the B1G allowing that to happen and I hope it never does.
 
If the had put Purdue in the East, MSU in the west and protected the MSU-UM game, this would be a much better set up.

It is what it is - eventually they may scrap divisions all together and protect rivalries. Nothing changes until 2020 - I think games are scheduled out until then

I don't like the "protected game" thing. MSU should realize that its good for them and good for the league to move to the West. TOSU and UM have to be kept together and PSU, Md, RU have to be kept together. So MSU to the west is the only move that makes sense.
 
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something that should be considered is that teams like Wisconsin and Nebraska might wind up being top 10 teams in the future.... both are traditional
powers and could rise up again... and who is to say that Northwestern cannot rise up also

some wanting to balance the power, understandable, but the powers can shift.....you can shift teams and all of a sudden it moves in a different direction
 
something that should be considered is that teams like Wisconsin and Nebraska might wind up being top 10 teams in the future.... both are traditional
powers and could rise up again... and who is to say that Northwestern cannot rise up also

some wanting to balance the power, understandable, but the powers can shift.....you can shift teams and all of a sudden it moves in a different direction


sure they can but that's 2 programs...you have 4 in the other side, its still not balanced...and then you want RU to knock them off and become a power. The top 4 programs are all on one side, 5th and 6th are on the other side....that's not balanced at all.

why are you calling Illinois and Minnesota lesser...they can rise up too just like RU..why do you think RU is any different from those programs.

RU is in the Big 10, that should be the attraction...are our fans so jaded that playing Purdue or Iowa is such a comedown and disappointment. I am sure the Purdue and Iowa fans are saying the same thing about losing Michigan and instead get Rutgers as a home game with less revenue
 
fans at Wisc, Iowa, and Neb, are upset that they will see the marquee teams in the east, MSU, OSU, Mich, PSU, much less often.

Iowa and Wisc, like the other legacy schools, played most of the rest of the conference almost yearly for decade after decade.

as for Neb fans, the lure of the B10 for them was playing the other B10 marquee schools, not Minn, PU, Ill, NW, yet they are now stuck in the west, so they feel like they got bait and switched by the Delany..

OSU and other east school's fans are upset that they don't play Iowa, Wisc, and other west schools regularly anymore.



1st off, with 14 or more schools, and only 8 or 9 conference games, you're never going to have an even playing field for all schools.

that said, the real culprit to this and both similar and different issues at other conferences, is the NCAA rule defining eligibility for a conference to play a Conf Champ Game. (CCG).

said rule dictates that for a conf to be eligible for a CCG, that said conf must have at least 12 schools, be divided into 2 divisions, and play a round robin sched within each division.

to say said rule is both beyond outdated and universally harmful to every school in every conference, would be an understatement.

said rule dates back to pre invention of television iirc.

the ACC doesn't like it because post expansion for them, long time rivals divided by new divisions no longer can play each other, (as with the B10 and SEC), other than occasionally.

the B12, with only 10 schools now, is no longer eligible to play a CCG.

up until the addition of Neb to the B10, the B10 was not eligible to play a CCG for decade after decade.


so being that said rule pre dates tv, which makes it totally out dated, and being that said rule severely limits scheduling options for literally every school in every major conference, and being that said rule's language accomplishes absolutely nothing positive that couldn't be accomplished absent the restrictive language, one might ask, WTF is going on that said rule wasn't amended decades ago, to allow any size major conference to play a CCG, and to let each conf set their own parameters for how they determine which 2 schools earn CCG berths?

GOOD QUESTION!!!

the fact that this rule has stayed as written for decade after decade, despite the invention of tv and the financial implications of said invention, despite the competitive, recruiting, and PR advantages it gives one conference over another, despite the scheduling limitations it imposes on all schools affected by it, despite the complete arbitrariness of the 12 school, 2 divisions, round robin, mandates, is exemplary of nothing other than unbelievably poor leadership.

want to remedy the chronic "divisions" inequities, and open up conference scheduling between all conference schools?

no problem, and it's not exactly rocket science.

just amend that harmful to all prehistoric rule to eliminate the 12 school, 2 divisions, round robin, mandates, as qualifiers for a CCG, that serve no positive function for anyone in any conference, while screwing things up for everyone.


aside from the question of why wasn't this rule amended 50 plus years ago, we can only ask, why won't it be amended tomorrow?

.
 
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sure they can but that's 2 programs...you have 4 in the other side, its still not balanced...and then you want RU to knock them off and become a power. The top 4 programs are all on one side, 5th and 6th are on the other side....that's not balanced at all.

why are you calling Illinois and Minnesota lesser...they can rise up too just like RU..why do you think RU is any different from those programs.

RU is in the Big 10, that should be the attraction...are our fans so jaded that playing Purdue or Iowa is such a comedown and disappointment. I am sure the Purdue and Iowa fans are saying the same thing about losing Michigan and instead get Rutgers as a home game with less revenue
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you can call it selfish if you want, but I think our fans are more interested in seeing Michigan state as opposed to Iowa, or Purdue..... I can see you are more concerned about RU being able to win the conference, I am
not as concerned about that.... winning the conference would be tough for us now in either division, if we get good enough I think we eventually will get it done, and remain a good team thereafter.
 
Again, I wasn't complaining that the East is tough. It is - and we will compete.

I found it interesting that it's not just the folks at Maryland, RU and IU wondering.. there seems to be a lot of people across the B!G that wonder if the East/West is the best solution.....
 
Again, I wasn't complaining that the East is tough. It is - and we will compete.

I found it interesting that it's not just the folks at Maryland, RU and IU wondering.. there seems to be a lot of people across the B!G that wonder if the East/West is the best solution.....
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I am assuming that we are not just talking about the names of the two divisions, but the two divisions themselves.... the league is not
overly big to have to be split into the much talked about pods.... or 3 divisions, etc
 
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I am assuming that we are not just talking about the names of the two divisions, but the two divisions themselves.... the league is not
overly big to have to be split into the much talked about pods.... or 3 divisions, etc

The East may indeed turn into a juggernaut one of these days, but it's not there yet. Ohio State obviously has terrific talent, but hasn't jelled yet. Michigan State has underperformed and has been hit with some injury trouble lately. They had to work to beat a Purdue team that is probably the worst in the west and, as you Rutgers fans know, needed most of the game to beat you. Right now, the Spartans are easily the most overrated team in the B1G. Penn State seems to be improving, but recently struggled with an Army team that Duke beat 44-3 last weekend and had the good fortune to play Indiana without its QB and stud running back. The next few weeks should tell how far they've come. I think you'd agree that Rutgers, Maryland and Indiana have some work to do. That basically leaves Michigan as the only team in the East that seems to be playing top-flight ball at the moment.
 
fans at Wisc, Iowa, and Neb, are upset that they will see the marquee teams in the east, MSU, OSU, Mich, PSU, much less often.

Iowa and Wisc, like the other legacy schools, played most of the rest of the conference almost yearly for decade after decade.

as for Neb fans, the lure of the B10 for them was playing the other B10 marquee schools, not Minn, PU, Ill, NW, yet they are now stuck in the west, so they feel like they got bait and switched by the Delany..

OSU and other east school's fans are upset that they don't play Iowa, Wisc, and other west schools regularly anymore.



1st off, with 14 or more schools, and only 8 or 9 conference games, you're never going to have an even playing field for all schools.

that said, the real culprit to this and both similar and different issues at other conferences, is the NCAA rule defining eligibility for a conference to play a Conf Champ Game. (CCG).

said rule dictates that for a conf to be eligible for a CCG, that said conf must have at least 12 schools, be divided into 2 divisions, and play a round robin sched within each division.

to say said rule is both beyond outdated and universally harmful to every school in every conference, would be an understatement.

said rule dates back to pre invention of television iirc.

the ACC doesn't like it because post expansion for them, long time rivals divided by new divisions no longer can play each other, (as with the B10 and SEC), other than occasionally.

the B12, with only 10 schools now, is no longer eligible to play a CCG.

up until the addition of Neb to the B10, the B10 was not eligible to play a CCG for decade after decade.


so being that said rule pre dates tv, which makes it totally out dated, and being that said rule severely limits scheduling options for literally every school in every major conference, and being that said rule's language accomplishes absolutely nothing positive that couldn't be accomplished absent the restrictive language, one might ask, WTF is going on that said rule wasn't amended decades ago, to allow any size major conference to play a CCG, and to let each conf set their own parameters for how they determine which 2 schools earn CCG berths?

GOOD QUESTION!!!

the fact that this rule has stayed as written for decade after decade, despite the invention of tv and the financial implications of said invention, despite the competitive, recruiting, and PR advantages it gives one conference over another, despite the scheduling limitations it imposes on all schools affected by it, despite the complete arbitrariness of the 12 school, 2 divisions, round robin, mandates, is exemplary of nothing other than unbelievably poor leadership.

want to remedy the chronic "divisions" inequities, and open up conference scheduling between all conference schools?

no problem, and it's not exactly rocket science.

just amend that harmful to all prehistoric rule to eliminate the 12 school, 2 divisions, round robin, mandates, as qualifiers for a CCG, that serve no positive function for anyone in any conference, while screwing things up for everyone.


aside from the question of why wasn't this rule amended 50 plus years ago, we can only ask, why won't it be amended tomorrow?

.

I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion, but your facts are WAY, WAY off. The CCG rule was written in 1988. Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure TV has been around since the 1950s or so. The CCG rule was written because one of the AA (FCS) conferences had so many teams that during a given season, basically half the teams didn't play each other, and they didn't have a really legitimate champion. The reason is made it to I-A is because Roy Kramer (SEC commissioner) came across it, and though it would be a money-maker for the conference. Turns out it was, and thus everybody else copied it.

That said, you aren't going to see the divisions go anywhere. Here's why. TV likes the division setup, because it makes a conference's regular season more marketable and valuable. When you split into two divisions, it automatically brings more teams into the championship race. It's easier to win a division over 5/6 other teams, than to win over the entire 10-12 teams in the conference, especially the heavyweights aren't on your side, like the Big Ten West. Plus, it's easier to market because division winners automatically make the CCG. If you have one of these "two highest ranked" scenarios, then you could have a bunch of games that are pretty much meaningless, and less marketable. It's also beneficial to have one division that is stacked. The SEC made a killing in the 90s when the East was so strong, with the Florida/Tennessee/Georgia games. All those games were big time, because they were heavyweights battling it out for a defined division title, rather that some convoluted "if Team A beats Team B, and Team C lose to so-and-so." scenarios. Same thing for the Big Ten East. Having Ohio S/Michigan/Michigan St(and may be Penn St) all battling it out for a division title is a ratings bonanza, and a cash cow. Ohio St/Michigan as a crossover is still a big game, but not as big as if they are both in the same division and the stakes are higher.
 
if the end result is that the big 10 east routinely has two top 10 teams, and RU plays like it did this past Saturday..... I can live with that.... just gotta get that
little bit more, and get the win next time.

dream big..... we took a nice step this past week
 
If the had put Purdue in the East, MSU in the west and protected the MSU-UM game, this would be a much better set up.

It is what it is - eventually they may scrap divisions all together and protect rivalries. Nothing changes until 2020 - I think games are scheduled out until then

You need divisions in order to have a championship game.
 
The East may indeed turn into a juggernaut one of these days, but it's not there yet. Ohio State obviously has terrific talent, but hasn't jelled yet. Michigan State has underperformed and has been hit with some injury trouble lately. They had to work to beat a Purdue team that is probably the worst in the west and, as you Rutgers fans know, needed most of the game to beat you. Right now, the Spartans are easily the most overrated team in the B1G. Penn State seems to be improving, but recently struggled with an Army team that Duke beat 44-3 last weekend and had the good fortune to play Indiana without its QB and stud running back. The next few weeks should tell how far they've come. I think you'd agree that Rutgers, Maryland and Indiana have some work to do. That basically leaves Michigan as the only team in the East that seems to be playing top-flight ball at the moment.

It is not just about the first half of the 2015 season. OSU was national champ last year and MSU was a top 5 team.
 
Anyone catch B1G Live today? Coach D and Ray Lucas were talking about East/West alignment versus L&L and the issues with competitive balance.

I'm not complaining how tough the East is --- and I always though L&L was silly...

But, interesting to see on-going discussion and some thought (even if it's just a "hint") - that current East/West may not be best structure long-term.
Do you remember when they said they needed to change the SEC division because the SEC East was to strong for the SEC West? These things go in cycles and I would give it time.

A possible realignment that would maintain most rivalries would be:

Division A
Penn State
Rutgers
Maryland
Nebraska
Iowa
Wisconsin
Minnesota

Division B
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
Northwestern
Illinois
 
I don't like the "protected game" thing. MSU should realize that its good for them and good for the league to move to the West. TOSU and UM have to be kept together and PSU, Md, RU have to be kept together. So MSU to the west is the only move that makes sense.
Purdue and Indiana game is protected - move Purdue to the east and you don't need to protect it.
Michigan and Michigan St will want to play every year
 
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