Basketball St. John's outlasts No. 25 Rutgers Basketball in scrimmage

[NewJerseyHawk]

So you're saying we'd be worse if Cliff was on the team still?

I won't comment on style of play because you're just plain wrong.

You can't feature Cliff as the primary option with this roster. Would Cliff be worth it as the 4th option on offense and would the offense look the same?? The answers are NO.

Does that mean RU is better off without Cliff.....NO, but roles and responsibilities have to make sense.

I would equate this to watching the USA Olympic team play France a couple of months ago and having front line players sitting on the bench OR placed in roles where they're not the primary option, doesn't always work. No one would say Jayson Tatum and Tyrese Haliburton aren't better players than Jaylen Brown or Derrick White.

But when it comes to fit and what would have actually worked better, Brown was a better fit for the Olympic roster, with his ability to defend, rebound and without needing to score, instead of Tatum.....and White is not considered anywhere close to the caliber of player as Haliburton.

I'm very comfortable with developing Sommerville and Ogbole and mixing in Martini, because they fit what helps Ace and Dylan drive and score. If this was football and you told me I could have Cliff on every defensive possession, great.....but unfortunately players have to fit both ends of the court and this year is about Ace, Dylan and the pieces around those 2 that fit better.

 

[Richie O]

 

[Scangg]

You can't feature Cliff as the primary option with this roster. Would Cliff be worth it as the 4th option on offense and would the offense look the same?? The answers are NO.

Does that mean RU is better off without Cliff.....NO, but roles and responsibilities have to make sense.

I would equate this to watching the USA Olympic team play France a couple of months ago and having front line players sitting on the bench OR placed in roles where they're not the primary option, doesn't always work. No one would say Jayson Tatum and Tyrese Haliburton aren't better players than Jaylen Brown or Derrick White.

But when it comes to fit and what would have actually worked better, Brown was a better fit for the Olympic roster, with his ability to defend, rebound and without needing to score, instead of Tatum.....and White is not considered anywhere close to the caliber of player as Haliburton.

I'm very comfortable with developing Sommerville and Ogbole and mixing in Martini, because they fit what helps Ace and Dylan drive and score. If this was football and you told me I could have Cliff on every defensive possession, great.....but unfortunately players have to fit both ends of the court and this year is about Ace, Dylan and the pieces around those 2 that fit better.

Why would you even mention the possibility of Cliff being the primary option with this roster let alone imply that is what people would want or should expect to see?

We would have won this game with Cliff. The biggest holes are interior defense, rim protection, and rebounding

Explain how Ogbole is a fit but Cliff isn't. Wild take

Cliff could play defense rebound and dunk on this roster. It would feed into his strengths. Cliff not being a primary option on offense would be a good thing

 

[NickRU714]

He can’t shoot had the ball blocked multiple times or taken. When he is on the floor every team knows he can’t shoot. They will sag off him clog the lane like tonight making it harder for Ace and Dylan. People fall in love with his energy and miss the huge flaws with him playing high minutes. Plus he gets punished in the post. 8-10 min a game based on matchup. Cannot be a starter heavy minutes guy. Replace him w shooting asap!

I’ve literally been saying this for months to mostly deaf ears.

I seriously can’t believe we started the year with two Davis drives into traffic.

Also been saying all the JWill stuff.
Dylan is going to have the ball. and if he doesn’t then Ace will.
This pushes JWill (and Davis) off ball - a completely different role than last year.

How many people brought the ball up?
The repeated off season lines “JWill or Davis will need to be primary ball handler. They have to bring the ball up” was comical before this game.

 

[AM ClocksPF]

Each one only had 1 assist. We're not going to win many game this year like this.

I only caught the second half but was not impressed by Harper as a point guard. He seems like a 'ME" first player who is not a good shooter yet.

 

[RUDivision]

I only caught the second half but was not impressed by Harper as a point guard. He seems like a 'ME" first player who is not a good shooter yet.

Agreed we need to share the ball more but you need to get Jwill and Jmike off the floor. Both Ace and Dylan were getting doubled and some time tripled in the lane. Every one know neither of them can shoot so they leave them and double the ball. When Ace and Dylan did pass the others got swallowed up . Give them shooters to space the floor.

 

[read option]

We have 2 of the Top 5 incoming Freshman in the country. I know it’s the first game and technically preseason, but aren’t we supposed to beat STJ at home?

 

[seansherm]

Agreed we need to share the ball more but you need to get Jwill and Jmike off the floor. Both Ace and Dylan were getting doubled and some time tripled in the lane. Every one know neither of them can shoot so they leave them and double the ball. When Ace and Dylan did pass the others got swallowed up . Give them shooters to space the floor.

I caught so much flack for saying Acuff is probably a better fit next to Dylan than JWill. Don't think Pike would ever sacrifice more defense though

 

[RUGiddy777]

27 and 13. Complete monster inside

I couldnt read his jersey at first but his face looked so familiar. Then realized he was at KU. Looked like the guy Bill Self thought he was getting 2 years ago.

 

[RUInsanity]

We have 2 of the Top 5 incoming Freshman in the country. I know it’s the first game and technically preseason, but aren’t we supposed to beat STJ at home?

Depends on how good or bad St. Johns turns out to be in a real game. Also, this is not street ball. Takes an entire team to win as well as figuring out what the final rotation will be.

 

[RW90]

I only caught the second half but was not impressed by Harper as a point guard. He seems like a 'ME" first player who is not a good shooter yet.

Thought Harper played well within the flow of the game, unlike Ace who started the game forcing some shots. However, while Ace took more contested shots they eventually started falling in bunches.

 

[Plum Street]

We have a style that may struggle in BIG play, but could be much better in the tournament .
Just find a way to get in.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I’ve literally been saying this for months to mostly deaf ears.

I seriously can’t believe we started the year with two Davis drives into traffic.

Also been saying all the JWill stuff.
Dylan is going to have the ball. and if he doesn’t then Ace will.
This pushes JWill (and Davis) off ball - a completely different role than last year.

How many people brought the ball up?
The repeated off season lines “JWill or Davis will need to be primary ball handler. They have to bring the ball up” was comical before this game.

So I was one of the guys who thought JWill was your PG and Dylan would be off the ball. Of course the initial possessions of the game it was Dylan and with the game on the line it was Dylan.

I still need to see more and Pike obviously needs to see more to determine what is best for the team. Definitely read in to the fact in the middle of the game Dylan was not the "primary 1". I realize Dylan had the foul trouble, but there is no doubt he wasn't as fresh at the end of the game. Dylan will also have a target on his back everygame.

We both agree and question what role does JWill have on a team that doesn't need a PG. We both agree offensively having JaMike and JWill along with Dylan is really a head scratcher.

 

[RUDivision]

So I was one of the guys who thought JWill was your PG and Dylan would be off the ball. Of course the initial possessions of the game it was Dylan and with the game on the line it was Dylan.

I still need to see more and Pike obviously needs to see more to determine what is best for the team. Definitely read in to the fact in the middle of the game Dylan was not the "primary 1". I realize Dylan had the foul trouble, but there is no doubt he wasn't as fresh at the end of the game. Dylan will also have a target on his back everygame.

We both agree and question what role does JWill have on a team that doesn't need a PG. We both agree offensively having JaMike and JWill along with Dylan is really a head scratcher.

Dylan is the best PG in the country a top 5 pick in the NBA draft next year at PG. We all know he needs to have the ball . We need to give him viable options to spread the floor and shoot, to allow him to operate.

It’s not Jwill and Jmike’s fault but they have to play less and come off the bench. It’s way too obvious! Concerning if Pike doesn’t know it.

Pre season game hopefully Pike trying things out and he figures it out quickly.

Won’t be an issue for the next couple of weeks against lesser opponents

 

[Scarlet Blind]

Put some of the offensive numbers in perspective,

FG 34-63 45.3%
We had only 4 out of 32 games last year at 45.3% or better, Georgetown 45.3%, LIU 49.3%, Michigan 52.4%, and Howard 54.2%.

We did this vs a preseason top 20 analytics, Torvik #16/KenPom #19, team with 3 seniors, 3 juniors, and 2 sophomores.

3pt 9-22 40.9%,
We hit 9 3s or more in only 4 out of 32 games last year, 9 vs Georgetown, 10 vs Wisconsin, 11 vs Nebraska, 12 vs Seton Hall.

Overall, nothing bad came out of this televised scrimmage/exhibition, the 5 spot the most concerning, we know a lot more about this team than we didn't vs a very good St John's team. Ace & Dylan are as advertised, we still have to figure out the rest of the moving pieces, minutes wise.

We started the game a bit cold, FG 4-15, and JMike, 1-4, and Derkack 1-5, forced a few on offense in the 2nd half. Rebounding wasn't consistent, hopefully Jay Young will get it where it needs to be in 3 weeks. Ace shouldn't have to play 37 minutes, both should be 30-35. Ogbole played 21 minutes, FG 1-3, 4pts/4reb, half the time pretty invisible. The 5 should be #1 Martini(6pts, 4reb, 11m), #2 Ogbole(4/4, 21m), #3 Sommerville(2/0, 7m), until someone stands out. I know the early foul trouble threw off minutes/rotations a bit, JWill, JMike, Harper and Martini with 2. Derkack stood out defensively, PJ offensively. JWill should have brought it up a bit more and JMike a little less. Overall very impressed easily scoring 86 points with a few drought in a very competitive game.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Dylan is the best PG in the country a top 5 pick in the NBA draft next year at PG. We all know he needs to have the ball . We need to give him viable options to spread the floor and shoot, to allow him to operate.

It’s not Jwill and Jmike’s fault but they have to play less and come off the bench. It’s way too obvious! Concerning if Pike doesn’t know it.

Pre season game hopefully Pike trying things out and he figures it out quickly.

Won’t be an issue for the next couple of weeks against lesser opponents

Going to be a real d!ck.....that is just a stupid statement. Dylan wasn't even the PG on his HS team. He is still learning the position.

 

[higgins3]

Only the first game,folks. It's a marathon!

 

[knight82]

Only the first game,folks. It's a marathon!

and it wasnt even a real game. Pike acknowledged the rebounding problems in his post game and didnt seem too concerned about being able to fix it.

 

[seansherm]

Going to be a real d!ck.....that is just a stupid statement. Dylan wasn't even the PG on his HS team. He is still learning the position.

You're wrong though, Dylan is 100% a lead guard. Who brings the ball to half court is meaningless, its Dylan who will run the offense in the half court.

 

[higgins3]

and it wasnt even a real game. Pike acknowledged the rebounding problems in his post game and didnt seem too concerned about being able to fix it.

Yeah. It's one game and the entire roster is almost brand new to each other. Somerville will have to take a step forward because I don't know if E and Martini will be up to snuff for big centers. That is a slight concern. It will have to be all hands on deck on the boards. I think they have the players to do it.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You're wrong though, Dylan is 100% a lead guard. Who brings the ball to half court is meaningless, its Dylan who will run the offense in the half court.

not disputing that...although I don't think the book is closed here.

Calling him the best PG in the country is silly. He may be the best pro PG prospect for the NBA in the 2025 draft, but that doesn't make him the best PG in the college game.

I still think, with low confidence, Pike will end up having in most half court possessions in B1G play JWill as the primary PG. I think he will be the one tasked with bringing the ball up and getting the team in offensive sets and initiate the offense.

 

[Scangg]

I only caught the second half but was not impressed by Harper as a point guard. He seems like a 'ME" first player who is not a good shooter yet.

Can't tell if serious

Going to be a real d!ck.....that is just a stupid statement. Dylan wasn't even the PG on his HS team. He is still learning the position.

Give it a rest

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Why would you even mention the possibility of Cliff being the primary option with this roster let alone imply that is what people would want or should expect to see?

We would have won this game with Cliff. The biggest holes are interior defense, rim protection, and rebounding

Explain how Ogbole is a fit but Cliff isn't. Wild take

Cliff could play defense rebound and dunk on this roster. It would feed into his strengths. Cliff not being a primary option on offense would be a good thing

No doubt Cliff is better than EO, but his strength is not post defense. Ejiofor may not have scored 27 points against Cliff, but he still would have abused him.

 

[Scangg]

Put some of the offensive numbers in perspective,

FG 34-63 45.3%
We had only 4 out of 32 games last year at 45.3% or better, Georgetown 45.3%, LIU 49.3%, Michigan 52.4%, and Howard 54.2%.

We did this vs a preseason top 20 analytics, Torvik #16/KenPom #19, team with 3 seniors, 3 juniors, and 2 sophomores.

3pt 9-22 40.9%,
We hit 9 3s or more in only 4 out of 32 games last year, 9 vs Georgetown, 10 vs Wisconsin, 11 vs Nebraska, 12 vs Seton Hall.

Overall, nothing bad came out of this televised scrimmage/exhibition, the 5 spot the most concerning, we know a lot more about this team than we didn't vs a very good St John's team. Ace & Dylan are as advertised, we still have to figure out the rest of the moving pieces, minutes wise.

We started the game a bit cold, FG 4-15, and JMike, 1-4, and Derkack 1-5, forced a few on offense in the 2nd half. Rebounding wasn't consistent, hopefully Jay Young will get it where it needs to be in 3 weeks. Ace shouldn't have to play 37 minutes, both should be 30-35. Ogbole played 21 minutes, FG 1-3, 4pts/4reb, half the time pretty invisible. The 5 should be #1 Martini(6pts, 4reb, 11m), #2 Ogbole(4/4, 21m), #3 Sommerville(2/0, 7m), until someone stands out. I know the early foul trouble threw off minutes/rotations a bit, JWill, JMike, Harper and Martini with 2. Derkack stood out defensively, PJ offensively. JWill should have brought it up a bit more and JMike a little less. Overall very impressed easily scoring 86 points with a few drought in a very competitive game.

SJU will be a top 25 team, among the best in the Big East, and a sweet 16 team or better type talented team

We won't see many if any guards like Richmond in the B1G. We won't see many if any big men as dominate as SJU

I think some are underestimating how impressive Rutgers looked in this scrimmage when our 2 stars are true freshman playing in their first game and we only returned 3 players from last year's team. Two of which missed half of last season. Acuff didnt really play. Harper still coming back from injury. This team is sooooo far away from their peak it's wild.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Can't tell if serious


Give it a rest

What part isn't true?

He was a clear cut 2 guard in HS OR
Dylan Harper is the best PG in college basketball

 

[RUDivision]

Going to be a real d!ck.....that is just a stupid statement. Dylan wasn't even the PG on his HS team. He is still learning the position.

All good but using his HS line is even dumber. Watch the All American game! Watch his AAU tape.

Why didn’t he play PG in high school?? Do you know why he his mother asst coach and head coach had him work off the ball?

He is the best PG we have ever had and will go Top 5 in the draft and will play PG at the next level.

 

[RUDivision]

What part isn't true?

He was a clear cut 2 guard in HS OR
Dylan Harper is the best PG in college basketball

Saying he is a 2 guard is just dumb. Uneducated and uninformed.
You haven’t watched his AAU or All American games . He will be starting at PG at the next level next year.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

All good but using his HS line is even dumber. Watch the All American game! Watch his AAU tape.

Why didn’t he play PG in high school?? Do you know why he his mother asst coach and head coach had him work off the ball?

He is the best PG we have ever had and will go Top 5 in the draft and will play PG at the next level.

1. AAU is almost meaningless
2. It was probably because there was capable PG on the roster who might have been a better ball handler and the team was better off with Dylan playing off the ball. We have the same dynamic at RU. PJ Hayes is a better 2 guard than JWIll. What is a better offensive lineup? Dylan and PJ vs Dylan and JWill vs Jwill and Dylan. My answer is #3
3. Getting drafted #1 and playing PG in the NBA in the future is not the same as playing PG in the next 6 months in the B1G

 

[RUDivision]

Ha

1. AAU is almost meaningless
2. It was probably because there was capable PG on the roster who might have been a better ball handler and the team was better off with Dylan playing off the ball. We have the same dynamic at RU. PJ Hayes is a better 2 guard than JWIll. What is a better offensive lineup? Dylan and PJ vs Dylan and JWill vs Jwill and Dylan. My answer is #3
3. Getting drafted #1 and playing PG in the NBA in the future is not the same as playing PG in the next 6 months in the B1G

hahahahahahahahaha
I agree with Jwill needs to be on the bench!

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Saying he is a 2 guard is just dumb. Uneducated and uninformed.
You haven’t watched his AAU or All American games . He will be starting at PG at the next level next year.

If we are going to play based on what worked in AAU and what may work in the NBA be prepared to finish under .500.

We lost the game because we got killed on the glass and loose balls. 40% of the players on the floor were Ace and Dylan. There were many times when they spectated while SJU got the rebound and loose ball. AAU and NBA you are outscoring your opponent. Takes a lot more to win college basketball games.

On offense Dylan will develop in to a PG and will play PG at the next level. Yesterday you can tell he oozes with talent. He has vision. He has the abillity to dribble and pass unlike Derek, JaMike or Corey S. He drove to the lane and had a beautiful jump stop and made the right pass that I think we botched. It is just a matter of time that he will be a top NBA PG.

October 2024 I question his ability to handle pressure. I question his ability with light pressure to get us in to our offensive sets and initiate offense. I question his ability to make all the right decisions.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Ha

hahahahahahahahaha
I agree with Jwill needs to be on the bench!

So what is your lineup?
How many minutes are you playing Dylan?
Are Dylan and Ace guarding the better perimeter players of the opponent?

 

[RUGiddy777]

Thought Harper played well within the flow of the game, unlike Ace who started the game forcing some shots. However, while Ace took more contested shots they eventually started falling in bunches.

When he gets up, he really gets up. Gonna be hard to contest him with his elevation. Crazy.

 

[Tango Two]

MBB Defeated 91-85 in Exhibition Against St. John's for Jimmy V Foundation​

MBB Defeated 91-85 in Exhibition Against St. John's for Jimmy V Foundation - Rutgers University Athletics

PISCATAWAY - The Scarlet Knights debuted in front of the home crowd for a great cause on Thursday night.

scarletknights.com

 

[seansherm]

not disputing that...although I don't think the book is closed here.

Calling him the best PG in the country is silly. He may be the best pro PG prospect for the NBA in the 2025 draft, but that doesn't make him the best PG in the college game.

I still think, with low confidence, Pike will end up having in most half court possessions in B1G play JWill as the primary PG. I think he will be the one tasked with bringing the ball up and getting the team in offensive sets and initiate the offense.

Guess we will find out, but didn't Pike just say he considers Dylan and JMike his 2 point guards? That confused me, as I agree JWill is a pg only. Just not sure if he's 2nd or 3rd best on the team.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Guess we will find out, but didn't Pike just say he considers Dylan and JMike his 2 point guards? That confused me, as I agree JWill is a pg only. Just not sure if he's 2nd or 3rd best on the team.

Too bad this isn't fantasy football.....with Jwill we have a really good QB, but he will remain on our bench all year except when Dylan has a bye. Would love to trade him for a TE (center)

 

[seansherm]

1. AAU is almost meaningless
2. It was probably because there was capable PG on the roster who might have been a better ball handler and the team was better off with Dylan playing off the ball. We have the same dynamic at RU. PJ Hayes is a better 2 guard than JWIll. What is a better offensive lineup? Dylan and PJ vs Dylan and JWill vs Jwill and Dylan. My answer is #3
3. Getting drafted #1 and playing PG in the NBA in the future is not the same as playing PG in the next 6 months in the B1G

Hayes a 2? Two months ago he was going to be a stretch 4. Really doesn't matter who 2 or 3 are though.

 

[Tango Two]

Rutgers basketball: Harper, Bailey dazzle but St. John's rallies to win exhibition​

Rutgers basketball: Harper, Bailey dazzle but St. John's rallies to win exhibition

5 takeaways from an entertaining, high-profile charity exhibition between Rutgers and St. John's

www.app.com

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Hayes a 2? Two months ago he was going to be a stretch 4. Really doesn't matter who 2 or 3 are though.

only shooter that came to mind.

This roster is pretty fluid 1 through 4.....dercack,jwill,jamike and dylan can all play PG for extended stretches. everyone except Jamike is the same height. ace brought the ball up the court on 2 posessions late (might have been when he was the 5 and guarded by a big)

 

[seansherm]

only shooter that came to mind

Hoping Acuff can be efficient enough to take that roll. Assuming he is better defensively than he showed once he's completely healthy.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Hoping Acuff can be efficient enough to take that roll. Assuming he is better defensively than he showed once he's completely healthy.

He shot 29% from 3 last year...that doesn't give me warm fuzzies.

The good news is we have so many bodies on the perimeter. This isn't 2022-23 when our season was shot because 1 guy got hurt.

If we assume Martini EO and Somerville equal 40 at the 5...

Assume Harper 32 and Ace 32....that leaves 96

dercack jwill jamike pj acuff

I think they all eat but not sure how much food they each get