TKR guys are way too harsh on Gavin
- Thread starter arigoldrutgers
- Start date
I'll say it again, the defense of AK by many on this board is irrational and makes no logical sense. More at play with some of these persons.
Guy hasn't even played a snap of football at Rutgers and y'all talking like he's the savior and kicking Gavin to the curb when he left HS early to come to Rutgers.
At this point who cares how old Gavin is, when he came to RU, etc. It’s about performance. Period. What Gavin has given us so far simply isn’t good enough at least for what I think this team can accomplish next year. But, i expect Gavin and AK to have an open completion so the best guy will play. If that turns out to be Gavin hopefully it’s because he’s improved rather than AK not being good enough to take the job.
He left HS early to stuff his pockets with cash so he created this mess by leaving before he was ready.
And while he seems to be a really good guy, this is a performance based issue not a popularity contest. Why can every other position be replaced at will except the QB?
We bring in transfer DTs almost every year. That takes away snaps from the younger guys. You don't bat an eyelash and cheer their arrival. Same with DBs, WRs, OL, etc.
The coaches knew they HAD to upgrade the position because of the inconsistency displayed all year. Time to accept that this change is for the benefit of the team and recruiting.
Agree and disagree.
Disagree that "he created this mess." I would put that more on Greg and Sean for not properly evaluating a recruit and not having a solid backup. The backups were a leftover from the previous coaches and a throwaway transfer. And it's debatable, but they may have let the best option transfer out. Not enough flexibility in the position to let a young QB who skipped HS to grow and develop.
Agree that this is strictly a performance issue, and either a significant demonstration of improvement by the incumbent QB is in order, or we need an upgrade. The elephant in the room, however, is whether AK is really an upgrade. On paper, it is hard to tell, and at absolute best, it is weak maybe, but by no means a definite yes.
Agree on the other positions. I have an inkling at what is at play here with the QB position. It's actually been explicitly stated, and it is ridiculous.
Agree again on having to upgrade, but not so sure AK is an upgrade. It's just a change at this point. The proof will be on the field. I'm not optimistic or pessimistic. But I am a little puzzled why Rutgers could not do better in the portal than a QB who was on paper on slightly better but not very good statistically than our current QB.
I'll never understand what Gleeson was thinking not recruiting a QB each cycle or why Greg ever allowed such a strategy. Based on what we saw during his redshirt freshman year, I wanted a portal QB brought in for this past season because Gavin was raw. Unfortunately it took them forever to get KC signed and there was nothing remotely close to being a P5 QB in the spring window.
Even if Evan was the starter, we'd be having this same conversation. Was high on him coming out of HS but he never really gave me the sense he could play at the level needed after seeing him play. At least with Teel & Nova you could see that they had that "it" factor.
People are tired of shitty qb play and are hoping Athan will be a significant improvement. Not a slam dunk he's better than Gavin but he appears to be.
For all we know maybe Gavin sticks around, makes a big leap and stays as our starting qb. I don't care who is our starting qb. I just want much more production from our qb and want it to translate to more wins. Just like I want better production from online, dline, te, wide receivers, kick and punt returners, etc. I see no one has an issue with trying to upgrade these positions, just qb. Really strange in my opinion.
Hit the nail on the head. I think 90% of people on here have no allegiance to a specific player, they just want Rutgers to succeed. The ones that cannot/refuse to identify when someone is playing poorly are the ones who puzzle me
Well, during the Pinstripe they mentioned that GW was a good baseball player that dreamed of playing for the Yankees. So, my wild-assed-guess is that he'd do better on those short throws if he were moving... though, you don't really take anything off a throw in baseball.. so its not a direct translation. I just think his footwork in the pocket in prep to deliver throws is suspect... and maybe he feels constricted in the pocket. Again, WAG, wild-assed-guess.
But I think that may account for his accurate throws early in games.. that is, 3-5 step drop and throw it... no room to look around ina collapsing pocket and shuffle feet into a bad form. Oddly unfortunately.. he has a HUGE ARM.. very powerful.. he doesn't need to rely on his feet for zip and distance.. and I think that works against him because you need to rely on your feet for accuracy.. consistency.. at least that's my impression.
Yeah agree. I think it’s something like that. Our first drives of play almost seemed to have been memorized step for step. Maybe that’s a weird way of putting it but I can’t think of another way to describe it. When a QB has to adjust on the fly - they are thinking about where to go with the ball. Maybe Gavin has trouble doing that and maintaining his footwork balance in tandem? Also just a guess. But the difference between first drive execution and every other possession is blatant (even not counting Temple where we only didn’t score that drive because Washington fumbled. We scored the next drive and probably just finished out the portfolio of pre-rehearsed plays). Once the D adjusts to what they see the footwork issues pop up.
exposing his mind/abilities to the position
the old saying, 'a qb is only as good as what he does when the 1st option isn't there'
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The ones that don't acknowledge the poor play make you wonder if they have any understanding of football. They remind me of those sports parents who make every excuse for their kid when they screw up on the playing field. It's always everyone else's fault their kid isn't doing well when in reality their kid isn't playing well.
Athan was inconsistent as well, yet you are willing to overlook his inconsistencies yet spotlight Gavin’s. In ‘23, Athan was 5 of 15 vs Michigan. 18 of 42 vs Purdue. 10 of 25 vs Iowa.
And 11 of 29 vs UNC. Time for you to accept that Athan is merely different, and not really an upgrade. Sure Gavin was inconsistent, but so was Athan. his time under Kirk resulted in one game where he truly excelled and a partial game cut short by injury.
You can’t talk about improving performance and then pitch Athan as an improvement because his record isn’t materially different.
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Seriously, there are people talking about AK like he's Penix + Williams + Maye all in one...
Still think there are many similar aspects in GW and AK’s games which are not going to be drastically different. As was pointed out in another posting we just may have a QB controversy in the fall... not ideal but quite possible or someone leaves and it won’t be AK.
that's a good post for most part. I tend to agree that Gav didn't create this mess and it's on Greg but Gavs' family has culpability here as well. I see both sides of the coin to going early and with anything, there are pros and cons.
I wonder if his lack of scrambling for yards is an indication of something odd.
That is.. we have seen him scramble for yards.. though it is very rare. He does have enough quickness in his feet to get going upfield quickly. We HAVE seen him do it.
And that makes it so confusing to me to see what he does under pressure when he merely seems to get outside the rush and give up ground to throw it out of bounds. He seems too casual about it to me.. as if he COULD plant his foot and take off towards the LOS and some highly needed yardage.. or to find an open man.. but he choose not to.
Hmmm... maybe my impression is warped by too many cases of it happening on 3rd and long where scrambling is unlikely to get him a first down? Is he just protecting wear and tear on QB hits? That's a valid consideration... but when you have a QB who CAN run.. and he doesn't run.. I think someone has to convince me as to why we just don't go with a pocket passing type who can also get outside the rush and throw it away without being a threat to run out there.
No there aren’t. Not even close
Those are 3 of the 5 QBs that I think are DEFINITE upgrades over GW. People here are saying AK is a definite upgrade. So yes.
Yep. I've read that all over the the place. Most actually have been comparing him to Bo Nix.
What the heck are you smoking? No one has compared this kid to upper echelon qb's. Just an upgrade to Gavin.
Not denying he had bad games. Every QB has bad games, even the best. That’s something you refuse to acknowledge with Gavin…lol.
Just look at the tapes, AK has a more natural feel for the position and makes decisions on the fly. Gavin has been very controlled his entire time here. Most fans don’t want a player that needs to be joysticked by the coaches. It never ends well.
Patrick Mahomes would be an upgrade.
AK may be an upgrade.
So clearly AK is going to be the next Mahomes......
Also, there are only 5 QBs who are a definite upgrade?
That doesn't seem correct regardless of how you feel about Wimsatt.
AK may be an upgrade.
So clearly AK is going to be the next Mahomes......
Also, there are only 5 QBs who are a definite upgrade?
That doesn't seem correct regardless of how you feel about Wimsatt.
I mean - to be fair, 53.1% is more accurate than 47.8%. You can’t dismiss a 5.3% difference as immaterial in one breath, and then in other posts point to optimism from Gavin’s year over year improvement in the same stat from 44.8% to 47.8% (if 5.3% is immaterial then 3% certainly has to be too right?)
Regardless, I hate looking at blended averages to assess consistency because I see it as a guy can have a good or bad day that skews things (think Nova in Kent State game). In over 63% of the games AK started in his career, he completed at least half of his passes. Gavin has only done that 5 times ever (out of 18 starts or 27.7% percent of his games). There’s enough data there in my book to conclude that to date, Athan’s floor accuracy wise (defined as - absent outliers, what you’d expect to see game in and out) is higher than Gavin’s - and not just a little…
That doesn’t mean Gavin can’t improve or that he doesn’t have a chance to win the job.
What I say above isn’t close to saying this.
The numbers don’t tell the whole story. It’s not just that Gavin’s completion rate was so poor, it was also how badly he missed.
As to the dual threat? We never saw it.
One nice run at BC, caught from behind.
Two runs against Wagner. One against Temple.
His run against Indiana may have been the play of his career.
5 runs in three years doesn’t make him a dual threat and he couldnt even do the tush push well.
As to the dual threat? We never saw it.
One nice run at BC, caught from behind.
Two runs against Wagner. One against Temple.
His run against Indiana may have been the play of his career.
5 runs in three years doesn’t make him a dual threat and he couldnt even do the tush push well.
It's a fair question either way. Greg and Kirk get paid big bucks to make hard (and harsh) decisions. They are not always right, and if they are wrong once too often, they are the recipients of harsh decisions too. My post was nothing against the OP, except now we have TKR guys who watch a lot more football and recruits than average fans do and two experienced coaches in agreement.
How old is RU football?
GW set a school record for rushing TDs and yds in a season - led the B1G in same.
Its crazy to say he never showed a dual threat in record setting season.
Ohio St, Michgan, PSU et al - GW led QBS in dual threat stats
AND WE KNOW GS HOLDS HIS QBS BACK FROM RUNNING
RU and Minn both at the bottom of the barrel for passing with Minn tied at 126 and RU at 127
Congrats on big leap up one step (and Minn had All B1G WR)
cfbstats.com - 2023 National Team Leaders
cfbstats.com
Greek = 1838 yds 14 TDs and 9 ints +++ 94 yds @ 2 rushing TDs for 16 total
GW = 1735 yds 9 TDs 8 INTs +++ 497 yds & 11 rush TDs for 20 total
This is like green Kia vs blue Kia
How old is RU football?
GW set a school record for rushing TDs and yds in a season - led the B1G in same.
Its crazy to say he never showed a dual threat in record setting season.
Ohio St, Michgan, PSU et al - GW led QBS in dual threat stats
AND WE KNOW GS HOLDS HIS QBS BACK FROM RUNNING
RU and Minn both at the bottom of the barrel for passing with Minn tied at 126 and RU at 127
Congrats on big leap up one step (and Minn had All B1G WR)
cfbstats.com - 2023 National Team Leaders
cfbstats.com
Greek = 1838 yds 14 TDs and 9 ints +++ 94 yds @ 2 rushing TDs for 16 total
GW = 1735 yds 9 TDs 8 INTs +++ 497 yds & 11 rush TDs for 20 total
This is like green Kia vs blue Kia
It is - if you want to jump from 127 to 126 with 4 less TDs
LOL I don’t even remember making this post. The fact that it has 300 replies is hilarious.
Wish the best for Gavin. Football aside, everyone says he’s a really good kid.
Wish the best for Gavin. Football aside, everyone says he’s a really good kid.
No, I was one of the first on the premium side to start calling for a transfer QB. I think I was busting his chops with that GIF but I can't remember why I used it now months later.
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