TKR guys are way too harsh on Gavin

[realhoops2]

My take is they (the TKR analyst) are overtly optimistic on AK and pessimistic on GW. We will see how it plays out but this notion that AK is virtually a lock is ridiculous. Neither of these QB's have been consistently good enough to engender such confidence. Based on the number of pass attempts in individual games, I do believe AK has had more opportunities to air it out and play through his struggles while GW never has.

The logic that AK wouldn't transfer unless he knew he would be the starter is ridiculous also.

AK had no guarantee he would be the starter in Minny but he would only transfer to RU if he knew he would be the starter? There is no evidence to remotely support that thought process. Regardless, I am hopeful that both will elevate their play and play a significant role in a much improved offense going forward

 

[RUTGERS95]

I think everyone doing a deep dive into the stats just needs to watch the film TKR just posted, and then watch the film of GW's throws. These are generalizations, but the pattern seems to be:

AK = Making hard throws, downfield or in tight spaces, under pressure, many tips at the line, scrambling to buy time, with lots of drops from the receivers, and lots of forcing the issue into tight coverage playing from behind. And drawing a fair number of DPI calls each game.

GW = Making much easier throws, in more favorable down/distance, with time, rarely scrambling, too often badly missing open receivers, not being relied to make plays with the game on the line.

get those common sense and on target speaking points out of your mouth when you're talking to me lol

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Seems like your main thing is to minimize any statistical edge that Wimsatt may have had. While at the same time look for reasons or justifications if you will for why Kaliakmanis' might have been lesser in those same areas.

My view is that in Athan’s case, there’s at least things you could point at as possible reasons to hope that in a different system and with better blocking he might have more success. Both with passing and running (his rush stats under Kirk in 2022 certainly suggest that he’s a better runner than his 2023 output). I don’t think his rushing will move the needle either way, but I’m just saying there’s reason to believe he could do better than he did this season because he did so before under Kirk.

In contrast, the hope with Gavin basically has to be that something suddenly just clicks and he becomes a more accurate passer. Gavin could certainly run for more yards, but just as with Athan, his rush output is not going to move the needle and some of you have a very warped sense about the actual impact that his running actually had. He had a handful of very nice runs most of which were confined to 2 games. He had a quietly strong run game vs. NW and one series where he carried us with a couple good runs against Michigan. In the other 9 games, I’m not sure how anyone would could make an argument that his running helped us. Against OSU, the bulk of rush attempts led to red zone stalls. He fumbled the ball on his one long 17 yard run and we were fortunate Dremel recovered it. On paper 49 yards collected in that game looks nice, but the reality is we were better off handing the ball to KM and Brown in that game (as an example).

 

[RUBOB72]

And the best could still be Ajani Sheppard… but no reports on his progress or lack there of… Just an opinion / my personal take… 🤫🤫🤫

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

And the best could still be Ajani Sheppard… but no reports on his progress or lack there of… Just an opinion / my personal take… 🤫🤫🤫

He was running the scout team all year as a redshirt.

 

[RUforJERSEY]

And the best could still be Ajani Sheppard… but no reports on his progress or lack there of… Just an opinion / my personal take… 🤫🤫🤫

Well one genius on the premium board has already opined that maybe he should become a LB.

 

[RUBOB72]

If any position Ajani could play TE ( Hybrid ) make use of his skills handling a football and I will surmise he most likely can catch… LB er nope but if given a choice to stay I think that’s the spot reality he plays at another smaller school. . Just strange no noise only crickets.

 

[jtung230]

I don't think you are accounting for the fact Gavin was sidelined for 5 games last year, getting injured in the Temple game and coming back for Minnesota. He ran for 40 yards against BC and 64 against Wagner. When he came back, he had one game with positive rushing yards. He was probably protecting his healing leg (ankle?).
I get what you are trying to say, but I don't think it makes the point you want. He did not necessarily elevate his rushing game, it seems he got back to his usual self. This is in no way a knock on Gavin, just an observation (maybe opinion).

It’s definitely not a knock. It’s a big compliment. We missed his run game last year. Clearly Simon could replace him from the run perspective and really hurt the overall rushing attack.

 

[satnom]

Respectfully, I disagree. Teams routinely put 8 in the box against us and begged us to throw the ball. The fact that we didn’t speaks just how good our OL and Kyle were this year. Heck, we have RPO in the system and rarely did anything but hand it off. The DE almost always crashed down. We all saw it — Gavin almost never pulled it and took the edge. Teams showed very little respect for our QB. Now, in fairness, when Gavin ran he broke some runs this year but even those didn’t look natural and fluid. He’s a robotic player.

What team and qb are you watching because defenses this season did not put eight in the box against our offense unless we were close to the goal line. If you want to see what eight defenders in the box looks like watch film of teams against Vedral, Laviano and Langan. Gavin is innacurate as hell on dump offs to the flats and high on out routes but teams were well aware of his arm strength to complete passes to the wide side of the field and his ability to throw the ball with pace 40-50 yds down the field. Opposing dbs and linebackers were well aware.

Do you think if there were eight defenders in the box Monangai runs for over 1,000 yds?

The shit some people make up.

GO RU

 

[CerealNTacos]

Dude the tape is clear as day, AK is better. You can watch this guys tape for 2 mins and see throws that GW has never made.

 

[TheKnightclub]

What team and qb are you watching because defenses this season did not put eight in the box against our offense unless we were close to the goal line.

Ohio st run blitzed safeties the entire day showing minimal respect for the pass. This isn't made up. The safeties spent more time closing on the line of scrimmage than covering any type of pass threat.

 

[Eagleton96]

What team and qb are you watching because defenses this season did not put eight in the box against our offense unless we were close to the goal line. If you want to see what eight defenders in the box looks like watch film of teams against Vedral, Laviano and Langan. Gavin is innacurate as hell on dump offs to the flats and high on out routes but teams were well aware of his arm strength to complete passes to the wide side of the field and his ability to throw the ball with pace 40-50 yds down the field. Opposing dbs and linebackers were well aware.

Do you think if there were eight defenders in the box Monangai runs for over 1,000 yds?

The shit some people make up.

GO RU

I saw a lot of crowding the box all year.

 

[jtung230]

Did some digging on Gavin's rushing numbers, just presenting these without commentary...


Gavin rushed 131 times on the season for 497 yards (3.79 yards per carry) and 11 TDs

Gavin was sacked 14 times for negative -86 yards.

Lets remove the sacks from this rushing totals...

Gavin rushed the ball 117 times for 583 yards in 2023 (4.98 yards per carry). 19.55% of those yards came on 2 plays (34 yarder (5.83%) vs VT and 80 yarder (13.72%) vs Indiana). Of those 117 rushes, 18 were scrambles (84.6% were designed runs).

That means the remaining 115 rushes he had on the season went for 469 yards (4.08 yards per carry).

Of those 11 rushing TDs, 6 came from the 1 yard line. 9 of the 11 came from inside the 7 yard line.

Stop it with these numbers w/o context.

 

[mb5789]

Stop it with these numbers w/o context.

What additional context am I leaving out? All I posted were statistics

 

[jtung230]

What additional context am I leaving out? All I posted were statistics

I was being sarcastic. I posted the stats of both QBs against common opponents and was told it’s useless w/o context.

 

[RUBOB72]

The tape is only a small part of his play. In what aspect was he so much better? The stats are what they are but it is not definitive that AK is much better . What I did notice was their receivers getting more space . What was their record with AK vs GW ? Something has to give I get it but I also remember a post game presser meltdown ( with AK) after one game …

 

[Eagleton96]

The tape is only a small part of his play. In what aspect was he so much better? The stats are what they are but it is not definitive that AK is much better . What I did notice was their receivers getting more space . What was their record with AK vs GW ? Something has to give I get it but I also remember a post game presser meltdown ( with AK) after one game …

What I saw was that when the receivers had space, he hit them. And there were a lot of incompletions where he had to force the play into tight coverage, where there was no separation, because of down and distance, or being way behind and playing catchup.

 

[satnom]

Ohio st run blitzed safeties the entire day showing minimal respect for the pass. This isn't made up. The safeties spent more time closing on the line of scrimmage than covering any type of pass threat.

Schemed blitzes are not eight men in the box. Just look at tape from Vedral, Laviano and Langan days. Ten defenders are within 5 yds of the LOS.

GO RU

 

[RUBOB72]

What I saw was that when the receivers had space, he hit them. And there were a lot of incompletions where he had to force the play into tight coverage, where there was no separation, because of down and distance, or being way behind and playing catchup.

Exactly correct … get separation / space better for QB better for WR better chance .

 

[tico brown]

Well one genius on the premium board has already opined that maybe he should become a LB.

If any position Ajani could play TE ( Hybrid ) make use of his skills handling a football and I will surmise he most likely can catch… LB er nope but if given a choice to stay I think that’s the spot reality he plays at another smaller school. . Just strange no noise only crickets.

It will be hilarious if Ajani Shepard was actually the best quarterback in that 2024 room but never got a legit shot between all the Wimsat eggs in the basket, the savior from Minnesota and the Home Grown Chosen One with AJ.

 

[TheKnightclub]

Schemed blitzes are not eight men in the box. Just look at tape from Vedral, Laviano and Langan days. Ten defenders are within 5 yds of the LOS.

GO RU

This is simply untrue. Safeties closing to line of scrimmage to run blitz count as an 8th man.

Regardless, the safeties and coordinators weren't exactly fearing GWs arm strength as you claimed. The inherent weakness is having one less in the secondary to be exploited, something the offense couldn't take advantage of. They dialed it up all day long. Props to the run blocking and KM for their performance against that!

 

[RUBOB72]

It will be hilarious if Ajani Shepard was actually the best quarterback in that 2024 room but never got a legit shot between all the Wimsat eggs in the basket, the savior from Minnesota and the Home Grown Chosen One with AJ.

That’s why I asked the podcast crew if there were any news regarding this player.

 

[satnom]

This is simply untrue. Safeties closing to line of scrimmage to run blitz count as an 8th man.

Regardless, the safeties and coordinators weren't exactly fearing GWs arm strength as you claimed. The inherent weakness is having one less in the secondary to be exploited, something the offense couldn't take advantage of. They dialed it up all day long. Props to the run blocking and KM for their performance against that!

Very true. Defenses weren’t fearing our receiving corp. Big difference.

Gavin’s passes to the wide side of field were ropes, even if innacurate. No RU qb has been able to make that throw since Nova.

Gavin will improve his accuracy or he’ll lose his job. Simple as that. RU qb position is in a better place with a real competition.

GO RU

 

[TheKnightclub]

Very true. Defenses weren’t fearing our receiving corp. Big difference.

They had little respect for the pass game. Who or why is debatable. It doesnt have to be either or. What's not debatable is there are examples of teams playing 8 in the box and/or using box safeties. This wasn't made up.

Gavin will improve his accuracy or he’ll lose his job. Simple as that. RU qb position is in a better place with a real competition.

Hard to dispute that! Thumbs up

 

[tico brown]

That’s why I asked the podcast crew if there were any news regarding this player.

I missed this. Was there an answer?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I missed this. Was there an answer?

I mean - we not only brought in KC’s former QB but we took his brother on a scholarship as a package deal. We were always going to offer a QB because of lack of experience in our room, but that we offered Dino too leads me to believe we really wanted Athan. His brother had no stats for Minny. I can’t imagine we really wanted to use a scholarship on him though hopefully he’ll be a pleasant surprise. If Sheppard was developing really well we probably don’t take this path and instead pick up a back up QB who played in a few games late in the process.

 

[RUBOB72]

I missed this. Was there an answer?

No… lol… you know they get the same as anyone else. Just kidding but I would feel it’s a legit question to ask. Only saw this player in high school and a few plays early in 2023. Size… can run … looks like he can spin it…actually reminds me of the V tech QB who gave us fits.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I see AK as Noah Vedral... don't know if he has Vedral's heart.. but it looks like he lives on those dink and dunk passes that won't move the chains on 3rd and long. Just a guess.

Of course, everyone, including Wimsatt, has a chance to improve. But, man, with our RBs.. I really really wished we had a QB that could hit them in stride on swing passes and the like. Maybe the new guy will do just that.

But I honestly think we need a deeper threat at QB and TE/WR. We need to make the safeties and LBs respect the pass enough to really open up the running game. I do not know that the dinks and dunks will do that.

 

[rutgersal]

I’m just saying there’s reason to believe he could do better than he did this season because he did so before under Kirk.

Don’t know what you’re seeing, as he was hardly remarkable under Kirk, as he had 3 TDS and 4 ints, and one good game. Below are his 2022 stats under Kirk.

 

[Extra Point]

The coaches will pick, so we just debate. But I think it will be a tough decision for the coaches to pick. You have GW who look leadership of the team and did everything he was asked to do, and got RU a winning season. Can see how his teammates love him. Plus he chose RU from the get go. Then you have AK, who did not come to Rutgers to sit on the bench. He appears to be a more accurate passer but he hasn't played in RU's system and he isn't exactly a world beater. He may have seen the writting on the wall that he would not be the starter at Minnesota and wanted another shot with his old OC.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Don’t know what you’re seeing, as he was hardly remarkable under Kirk, as he had 3 TDS and 4 ints, and one good game. Below are his 2022 stats under Kirk.

View embedded media

I’m going with what Eagleton said. I watched the video of every throw in 2023 and my view is that at present time anyone who watches it and doesn’t conclude that he is a much better passing QB than Gavin is crazy. Our coaches obviously agree with this take because if they didn’t, they probably weren’t agreeing to take Dino as a package and burn another schollie to get a QB they expect to sit on the bench like Simon. They clearly want Athan and likely believe he’s the better QB as of today. It will be an open competition in the sense that Gavin has time to improve his accuracy and ability to adjust plays post snap. As the incumbent, he will get a fair shake to show development. He seems like a good kid so I’ll be happy for him if he pulls it off, but he has a lot of work to doin my opinion.

 

[rutgersal]

I see AK as Noah Vedral... don't know if he has Vedral's heart.. but it looks like he lives on those dink and dunk passes that won't move the chains on 3rd and long. Just a guess.

Of course, everyone, including Wimsatt, has a chance to improve. But, man, with our RBs.. I really really wished we had a QB that could hit them in stride on swing passes and the like. Maybe the new guy will do just that.

But I honestly think we need a deeper threat at QB and TE/WR. We need to make the safeties and LBs respect the pass enough to really open up the running game. I do not know that the dinks and dunks will do that.

Duff will ultimately be our deep threat at Flex Tight End, if he doesn’t play WR. At WR, really wanted Jaylen Hornsby, but he chose Syracuse, as he is supposedly related to Elijah Robinson. So Ben Black who brings 4.36 speed to the table, will ultimately be our deep threat. Duff and Black might need this year to acclimate to this level of play.

 

[rutgersal]

I’m going with what Eagleton said. I watched the video of every throw in 2023 and my view is that at present time anyone who watches it and doesn’t conclude that he is a much better passing QB than Gavin is crazy. Our coaches obviously agree with this take because if they didn’t, they probably weren’t agreeing to take Dino as a package and burn another schollie to get a QB they expect to sit on the bench like Simon. They clearly want Athan and likely believe he’s the better QB as of today. It will be an open competition in the sense that Gavin has time to improve his accuracy and ability to adjust plays post snap. As the incumbent, he will get a fair shake to show development. He seems like a good kid so I’ll be happy for him if he pulls it off, but he has a lot of work to doin my opinion.

Fair enough.

 

[mb5789]

I’m going with what Eagleton said. I watched the video of every throw in 2023 and my view is that at present time anyone who watches it and doesn’t conclude that he is a much better passing QB than Gavin is crazy. Our coaches obviously agree with this take because if they didn’t, they probably weren’t agreeing to take Dino as a package and burn another schollie to get a QB they expect to sit on the bench like Simon. They clearly want Athan and likely believe he’s the better QB as of today. It will be an open competition in the sense that Gavin has time to improve his accuracy and ability to adjust plays post snap. As the incumbent, he will get a fair shake to show development. He seems like a good kid so I’ll be happy for him if he pulls it off, but he has a lot of work to doin my opinion.

Fwiw Dino isn’t coming in as a scholarship player, he’s walking on

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Fwiw Dino isn’t coming in as a scholarship player, he’s walking on

Really? I didn’t see that in any of the articles. That’s good news if true.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

On a separate note - I think we all should take a minute to reflect on the Paul / Cam portal disaster with basketball and appreciate that this was a move that made a lot of sense for Rutgers. It’s not so easy to secure depth but Gavin already announced he’s on board with sticking around. We need to have 2 experienced QBs on the roster next season and the coaches got it right here. We’ll now have 2 similar style power conf starters who have experience under Kirk.

 

[Shelby65]

Very true. Defenses weren’t fearing our receiving corp. Big difference.

Gavin’s passes to the wide side of field were ropes, even if innacurate. No RU qb has been able to make that throw since Nova.

Gavin will improve his accuracy or he’ll lose his job. Simple as that. RU qb position is in a better place with a real competition.

GO RU

lose his job by game 7 when the season is lost ? or by the start of the season since practicing for three years didn't seem to improve it to FBS level competence ?

 

[ashokan]

Very true. Defenses weren’t fearing our receiving corp. Big difference.

Minnesota had an All-B1G WR in Daniel Jackson
Receptions: 59 = 4th ; Receiving yards: 831 = 3rd; Receiving touchdowns: 8 TDs = 3rd in BiG.

RU had nobody like that.

Washington, J Jackson and Semaj Morgan = 1 TD each.
Long, Paterson, Langan and Bowman had 0 TDs
RB Ja'shon Benjamin had 1 TD
Ian Strong and RB Aaron Young had 2 TDs each
Dremel had 3 TDs and none after September and Wagner game.

Take away the 3 RB TDs and the WRs were good for what 7 TDs ?
That's one less than Minn's Jackson - the whole RU WR room.
That's not all Gavin's fault since the RU guys couldn't catch in traffic or claim jump passes

Daniel Jackson and Aireontae Ersery named All-Big Ten Offense

Four Gophers were also named All-Big Ten Honorable Mention

www.thedailygopher.com

 

[satnom]

lose his job by game 7 when the season is lost ? or by the start of the season since practicing for three years didn't seem to improve it to FBS level competence ?

There needs to be a clear cut depth chart at start of season. There will be plenty of time in Spring and Summer for the two qbs to go head to head and for the staff to evaluate. Greg wants to take this program to the next level and he knows where the improvements need to be made. The better performing qb will play.

Athan and Gavin are almost identical in production and experience. To be honest, I can see them being platooned series to series in the first game if they somehow finish in an even heat by the end of Summer camp.

GO RU

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

There needs to be a clear cut depth chart at start of season. There will be plenty of time in Spring and Summer for the two qbs to go head to head and for the staff to evaluate. Greg wants to take this program to the next level and he knows where the improvements need to be made. The better performing qb will play.

Athan and Gavin are almost identical in production and experience. To be honest, I can see them being platooned series to series in the first game if they somehow finish in an even heat by the end of Summer camp.

GO RU

Sean Gleeson is that you lurking on the free board?