TKR guys are way too harsh on Gavin

[Jerseylegends]

Respectfully, I disagree. Teams routinely put 8 in the box against us and begged us to throw the ball. The fact that we didn’t speaks just how good our OL and Kyle were this year. Heck, we have RPO in the system and rarely did anything but hand it off. The DE almost always crashed down. We all saw it — Gavin almost never pulled it and took the edge. Teams showed very little respect for our QB. Now, in fairness, when Gavin ran he broke some runs this year but even those didn’t look natural and fluid. He’s a robotic player.

I will say Gavin is not a dynamic runner at least he wasn't last year. Just fast and athletic, like Daniel Jones. But you think the delayed hand off was for no reason at all? Might as well just hand it off if the delay isn't making the defensive line think. This is about the third time on this board someone has told me that the option with Gavin this year was pointless and that defenses didnt prepare for or respect the option. Hey, I can't argue if that's the way you see it. I respectfully disagree and will tell you that a mobile quarterback, even Daniel Jones gives a defensive coordinator nightmares. The way you guys talk about his rushing yards and tds like it doesn't matter or anyone can do it is a clue that you aren't being fair in your assessments. I understand, the passing has been horrible, just understand that a better passer doesn't always equal a better team. That's my 2 cents until the season. This topic should keep the board active until then. Lol actually a good job by the mods and podcast. More traffic, kudos

 

[Eagleton96]

You showed side by side comparison of their adjusted stats. I listed the actual stats of the games against common opponents. Oh, Minnesota was 9-4 in 2022 and RU was 4-8 in 2022. Should the W-L be adjusted too?

Just to be clear, my point is that GW has been a really bad QB and that we need a lot more from the position if we want to maintain or expand our current success. I have no idea if AK is better. But I 100% think it’s a good idea to bring in competition. Let the best man win.

I also think that the kind of stat analysis we have been engaging in here is a fine starting point for a discussion. But as has been pointed out, there are many many variables in play. Is the team's improved rushing due to Wimsatt or to Coach Flaherty, the OL, and Kyle Monongai? RU was more often than not playing with the lead or a close score in a low scoring game, allowing us to stick to our script. MN was more often playing catchup up or keep up.

And on and on. So your facts are cherry picked facts. At a certain point people have to watch tape and go with their eyes.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

You showed side by side comparison of their adjusted stats. I listed the actual stats of the games against common opponents. Oh, Minnesota was 9-4 in 2022 and RU was 4-8 in 2022. Should the W-L be adjusted too?

Again stats without context, amazing the extent that RU fans will go to cling to mediocrity.

 

[Eagleton96]

I will say Gavin is not a dynamic runner at least he wasn't last year. Just fast and athletic, like Daniel Jones. But you think the delayed hand off was for no reason at all? Might as well just hand it off if the delay isn't making the defensive line think. This is about the third time on this board someone has told me that the option with Gavin this year was pointless and that defenses didnt prepare for or respect the option. Hey, I can't argue if that's the way you see it. I respectfully disagree and will tell you that a mobile quarterback, even Daniel Jones gives a defensive coordinator nightmares. The way you guys talk about his rushing yards and tds like it doesn't matter or anyone can do it is a clue that you aren't being fair in your assessments. I understand, the passing has been horrible, just understand that a better passer doesn't always equal a better team. That's my 2 cents until the season. This topic should keep the board active until then. Lol actually a good job by the mods and podcast. More traffic, kudos

I agree both that GW isn’t a dynamic runner and that the option is a scheme twist that helps the run game generally. I will also say GW did not get the most out of it…he’s a mediocre runner. We weren’t running a read option, the plays were pre called. Decision making is a huge part of being a good runner. And GWs scrambling, a huge part of an offense, is sub par. Much slower qbs do much better with it because they have a natural feel.

The QB position is where you need a playmaker. We have an athlete, with poor passing skills.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

I'm trying to understand if you guys understand that Gavins abilities are what make that particular offense work for the team. That's the whole point you guys aren't understanding, the most important part of the offense rutgers ran is having a QB that can put fear in the hearts of defensive coordinators. Causing defensive lines to play tentatively and not aggressive. All of the negatoids seem to purposely avoid that. Kind of how Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson can make a subpar offensive line and receiver group look like a top offense. You guys need to understand that, everything looks different when you have a QB that isn't a threat to make a house call on any play..

Comical take on KC’s offense but you guys keep stretching reality because nothing else is getting traction.

 

[Knight Shift]

Just to be clear, my point is that GW has been a really bad QB and that we need a lot more from the position if we want to maintain or expand our current success. I have no idea if AK is better. But I 100% think it’s a good idea to bring in competition. Let the best man win.


I also think that the kind stat analysis we have been engaging in here is a fine starting point for a discussion. But as has been pointed out, there are many many variables in play. Is the teams improved rushing due to Wimsatt or to Coach Flaherty, the OL, and Kyle Monongai? RU was often than not playing with the lead or a close score in a low scoring game, allowing us to stick to our script. MN was more often playing catchup up or keep up.

And on and on. So you facts are cherry picked facts. At a certain point people have to watch tape and go with their eyes.

Are cherry picked facts better or worse than alternative facts?
This is getting to be as difficult and contentious as a political debate.

 

[AntiG]

Gavin seemed very raw coming out of hs and still is in terms of passing the ball. However, in comparison to last year he made a huge leap. What he really needs to focus on is ironing out his throwing mechanics and footwork, both of which improved a lot but still look very clunky/robotic instead of smooth and directly lead to his accuracy issues especially on the many misfires where he threw too high and hard over receivers leading to picks and missed opportunities; and being able to move his eyes around and make quick progressions. Another offseason in the offense and good QB coaching will help him a lot. The good and bad news is we haven't seen his finished product yet, but the potential is there. He's certainly got a mental toughness to him and seems to have excellent work ethic which is always a good thing. (Wish we could call Terry Shea in to tutor him in the Bill Walsh method!)

 

[Eagleton96]

Are cherry picked facts better or worse than alternative facts?
This is getting to be as difficult and contentious as a political debate.

Different branches of the same tree lol.

 

[tico brown]

Which QB had more rushing yards in the B1G?

One, 80 yard run vs Indiana doesn’t make GW a Michael Vick/ Eric Crouch type QB. If he truly was reading the DE, he would’ve kept the ball more when the DE crashed inside to get Monongai, giving Wimsat the keep read that barely happened. Plus it shouldn’t take 5 Tush Pushes from the one to score two TDs, esp when you have at least TWO BRUISING RBs who can easily do the job without the Tush Push.

As I said with Sitkowski, if people are still talking about WB doing rookie mistakes after his third year of college ball, maybe he’s not it.

 

[Jerseylegends]

Again stats without context, amazing the extent that RU fans will go to cling to mediocrity.

This is what is confusing to me... wanting the QB that lost his starting job at Qb in Minnesota to come in and be the day one starter, no competition or anything. Lost his job at Minnesota. I hope he comes in here and is what you guys seem to think he is. But I also want Gavin to improve and be a good passer. Either one would be a great outcome. But how is it mediocre to hope wimsatt improves but not mediocre to think that the guy who lost his job in Minnesota can come beat everyone on your roster for a starting job? It's hopes and dreams just like Gav becoming a better passer is hopes and dreams..

 

[Eagleton96]

Do you really think Gavin did this with his legs? I’m not trying to be mean here but if I’m a defense, I’m trying to understand why one would think my scouting analysis should conclude that my offense should be planned around fear of QB keeps? Yes, he had 2 games (against a banged up VT D and a terrible run D in Indiana) where he exploded for a couple big runs. His running was basically a complete non-factor in the outcomes (and more importantly the game flow) of the rest of our games.

That’s the difference between his yards and Athan’s. Not all yards gained are created equal. Athan was asked to lead his team down the field with the outcome of the game on the line in many games. Completion percentage aside, he made enough throws when it mattered to put his team in the position to beat Iowa, Nebraska, NW and Illinois. D failed him in the latter 2 games. Gavin was never asked to fire away until games were too far out of reach to run (they let him throw a few meaningful passes vs Michigan State but that’s the extent). How do people not see the difference? Gavin isn’t leading us down the field with his legs in Q4 of a close game.

TKR just posted a video of every AK throw in the season. Having just watched the first part, the Nebraska game, ...I think it strongly supports your argument. There is a quote from the commentators at the 6:05 where they say, basically (paraphrasing): the OL has not won the battle up front, it's a signal that they aren't just going to be able to run the ball this year, and winning this game is on the shoulders of the quarterback.

And you can see AK scrambling, buying time, rolling out, slinging the ball in tight spots, battling to win the game. Nothing like what we have seen from GW. Rutgers generally won the battle up front or at least held our own. We owned OSU at the line for much of the game, for example.

 

[Jerseylegends]

One, 80 yard run vs Indiana doesn’t make GW a Michael Vick/ Eric Crouch type QB. If he truly was reading the DE, he would’ve kept the ball more when the DE crashed inside to get Monongai, giving Wimsat the keep read that barely happened. Plus it shouldn’t take 5 Tush Pushes from the one to score two TDs, esp when you have at least TWO BRUISING RBs who can easily do the job without the Tush Push.

As I said with Sitkowski, if people are still talking about WB doing rookie mistakes after his third year of college ball, maybe he’s not it.

"One 80 yard run" lol

 

[Jerseylegends]

Comical take on KC’s offense but you guys keep stretching reality because nothing else is getting traction.

"Comical take on kcs offense" please, this is my about 20th time asking this question. Did you notice the delay in all the hand offs? What was that about? Why not just give it to monangai?

 

[tico brown]

"One 80 yard run" lol

If that’s all you got from what I said then there’s no need for a convo.

 

[bitnez]

"Comical take on kcs offense" please, this is my about 20th time asking this question. Did you notice the delay in all the hand offs? What was that about? Why not just give it to monangai?

A delay at the mesh point can prompt the defense to hesitate. Or, the delay is designed to allow the OL to pull, set bolcks, etc., which gives Kyle an extra few seconds to find the correct hole.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Which QB had more rushing yards in the B1G?

As I said before - all yards are not close to created equal. Maybe I’m missing something - so help me understand - besides Indiana, can you provide an example of another BIG game where Gavin’s legs served as a reasonable substitute for a servicable pass game? I’m not talking about an isolated single chunk run once in a game. Nor do a handful of QB keep TDs from the 1-2 yard line suggest this.

The closest (pretty much only) example I see would be the NW game where Gavin had 4 impactful run plays. A 6 yard TD run (that followed another QB carry for 3 yards in the red zone), an 8 yard run for a first down on a FG drive, and a 6 yard run on first down at the end of the game when we were eating clock (that drive went 3 and out but not his fault).

By way of comparison, against NW, Athan had 4 rush attempts and wasn’t too shabby. 1) A 7 yard rush on 3rd and 15 to avoid a sack and put Minny in FG range. 2) An 8 yard run on 1st down when his team was up 31-24. 3) A 19 yard rush for a first down on second down (score still 31-24).

 

[rutgersfan1766]

As I said before - all yards are not close to created equal.

Pretty sure one yard always equals three feet

 

[Jerseylegends]

A delay at the mesh point can prompt the defense to hesitate. Or, the delay is designed to allow the OL to pull, set bolcks, etc., which gives Kyle an extra few seconds to find the correct hole.

So in the Rutgers offense what was its purpose? From your perspective watching the plays would you say that the delay on every hand off was to allow the guard time to pull?

 

[Eagleton96]

Having watched the first three games of the "Every Throw by AK" tape...a few themes emerge. He was constantly under pressure. He bought time with his legs. His throws were often into tight spaces. Many of his throws had to be made the moment he threw it to avoid pressure. Against UNC they were down by 3 scores in a flash and AK is running for his life slinging the ball upfield to get back in the game, with predictably poor results.

Overall I like what I see. I wonder if RU will use the same RO scheme with AK as they did with Gavin as he looks pretty mobile.

 

[Jerseylegends]

If that’s all you got from what I said then there’s no need for a convo.

All I got is you guys coming up with ways to poo poo Wimsatts contributions to the running game. Because it doesn't support your argument. Me personally I don't have a preference but it's obvious you guys prefer the unknown because you're tired of what Rutgers currently has. I respect it but you can't have a discussion when people are letting their emotions steer their logic.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

TKR just posted a video of every AK throw in the season. Having just watched the first part, the Nebraska game, ...I think it strongly supports your argument. There is a quote from the commentators at the 6:05 where they say, basically (paraphrasing): the OL has not won the battle up front, it's a signal that they aren't just going to be able to run the ball this year, and winning this game is on the shoulders of the quarterback.

And you can see AK scrambling, buying time, rolling out, slinging the ball in tight spots, battling to win the game. Nothing like what we have seen from GW. Rutgers generally won the battle up front or at least held our own. We owned OSU at the line for much of the game, for example.

This. Athan was sacked 21 times this season vs. 6 last year (in half a season as the starter so let’s double that to 12). That’s a significant difference attributable to the drop off in blocking.

 

[NickRU714]

I'm trying to understand if you guys understand that Gavins abilities are what make that particular offense work for the team. That's the whole point you guys aren't understanding, the most important part of the offense rutgers ran is having a QB that can put fear in the hearts of defensive coordinators. Causing defensive lines to play tentatively and not aggressive. All of the negatoids seem to purposely avoid that. Kind of how Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson can make a subpar offensive line and receiver group look like a top offense. You guys need to understand that, everything looks different when you have a QB that isn't a threat to make a house call on any play..

I’ll only speak for myself - I don’t want that offense and don’t think it is a sustainable path to success.

I understand that apparently this is the offense we needed this year because of Gavin. And allegedly OC KC/HC GS are going to totally change the offense and the type of play calling with a different QB in the future (I’ll believe when I see it).

I want an offense with a QB who’s first priority is throwing the ball.
Putting the fear in the defense that he will throw the ball.

Can the QB run also? Eh take it or leave it for me.
Taulia had 18 yards rushing yards this year.
205 yards for his 5 year career.

 

[tico brown]

All I got is you guys coming up with ways to poo poo Wimsatts contributions to the running game. Because it doesn't support your argument. Me personally I don't have a preference but it's obvious you guys prefer the unknown because you're tired of what Rutgers currently has. I respect it but you can't have a discussion when people are letting their emotions steer their logic.

Where did I lie?

 

[mb5789]

Did some digging on Gavin's rushing numbers, just presenting these without commentary...


Gavin rushed 131 times on the season for 497 yards (3.79 yards per carry) and 11 TDs

Gavin was sacked 14 times for negative -86 yards.

Lets remove the sacks from this rushing totals...

Gavin rushed the ball 117 times for 583 yards in 2023 (4.98 yards per carry). 19.55% of those yards came on 2 plays (34 yarder (5.83%) vs VT and 80 yarder (13.72%) vs Indiana). Of those 117 rushes, 18 were scrambles (84.6% were designed runs).

That means the remaining 115 rushes he had on the season went for 469 yards (4.08 yards per carry).

Of those 11 rushing TDs, 6 came from the 1 yard line. 9 of the 11 came from inside the 7 yard line.

 

[Eagleton96]

Did some digging on Gavin's rushing numbers, just presenting these without commentary...


Gavin rushed 131 times on the season for 497 yards (3.79 yards per carry) and 11 TDs

Gavin was sacked 14 times for negative -86 yards.

Lets remove the sacks from this rushing totals...

Gavin rushed the ball 117 times for 583 yards in 2023 (4.98 yards per carry). 19.55% of those yards came on 2 plays (34 yarder vs VT and 80 yarder vs Indiana). Of those 117 rushes, only 18 were scrambles runs (84.6% were designed runs).

That means the remaining 115 rushes he had on the season went for 469 yards (4.08 yards per carry).

Of those 11 rushing TDs, 6 came from the 1 yard line. 9 of the 11 came from inside the 7 yard line.

Do you have the same numbers for AK?

 

[mb5789]

Do you have the same numbers for AK?

2023:

Athan rushed 74 times on the season for 94 yards (1.27 yards per carry) and 2 TDs

Athan was sacked 21 times for negative -126 yards.

Lets remove the sacks from this rushing totals...

Athan rushed the ball 53 times for 220 yards in 2023 (4.15 yards per carry). 19.09% of those yards came on 2 plays (23 yarder (10.45%) vs Wisconsin and 19 yarder (8.63%) vs Northwestern). Of those 53 rushes, 25 were scrambles (52.8% were designed runs).

That means the remaining 51 rushes he had on the season went for 178 yards (3.49 yards per carry).

Athan's 2 rushing TDs came from 2 yards out and 1 yard out.


2022:

Athan rushed 32 times on the season for 151 yards (4.72 yards per carry) and 1 TD

Athan was sacked 6 times for negative -40 yards.

Lets remove the sacks from this rushing totals...

Athan rushed the ball 26 times for 191 yards in 2022 (7.35 yards per carry). 21.99% of those yards came on 2 plays (23 yarder (12.04%) vs Wisconsin and 19 yarder (9.95%) vs Iowa). Of those 26 rushes, 13 were scrambles (50% were designed runs).

That means the remaining 24 rushes he had on the season went for 149 yards (6.21 yards per carry).

Athan's rushing TD came from 1 yard out.

 

[RUBOB72]

If we are to bank on Athan Kaliakmanis passing for over 2500 yds. with maybe 20 TD’s , runs for 400 yds. and only 10 interceptions then sure. Could that happen ? I like competition at positions most people do.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

All I got is you guys coming up with ways to poo poo Wimsatts contributions to the running game. Because it doesn't support your argument. Me personally I don't have a preference but it's obvious you guys prefer the unknown because you're tired of what Rutgers currently has. I respect it but you can't have a discussion when people are letting their emotions steer their logic.

No - that’s not it. Nobody is saying he didn’t contribute. We’re saying that those burst runs, while great, are still not a substitution for a competent passing offense or rather for any form of consistent game flow to keep the chains moving.

And while his pass completion rate is an issue, the bigger concern is how often he missed wide open receivers without pressure in the backfield or threw an uncatchable dart to a receiver a few feet away from him. From the tape, Athan looks much more reliable in this regard when he has time. This is what I’m most optimistic about. Also - though not as many attempts, Athan ran quite well too in 2022 with better line protection.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Athan rushed 74 times on the season for 94 yards (1.27 yards per carry) and 2 TDs

Athan was sacked 21 times for negative -126 yards.

Lets remove the sacks from this rushing totals...

Athan rushed the ball 53 times for 220 yards in 2023 (4.15 yards per carry). 19.09% of those yards came on 2 plays (23 yarder (10.45%) vs Wisconsin and 19 yarder (8.63%) vs Northwestern). Of those 53 rushes, 25 were scrambles (52.8% were designed runs).

That means the remaining 51 rushes he had on the season went for 178 yards (3.49 yards per carry).

Athan's 2 rushing TDs came from 2 yards out and 1 yard out.

How about you do it for 2022 when Athan had a more competent line blocking for him?

And also on Gavin - how many of those rushes were in bend but don’t break time when our opponent was looking to eat clock while nursing a multi score lead?

 

[RUBOB72]

The question remains what beside physical attributes, running, passing constitutes success from the QB. Surely accuracy, ability to focus and see the field, read defenses, go through progressions. Need WR ‘s , TE’s and an Oline that can not only run block but pass block as well . We have not had in a long time any combination of this. Stability has not been Rutger’s friend.

 

[Jerseylegends]

No - that’s not it. Nobody is saying he didn’t contribute. We’re saying that those burst runs, while great, are still not a substitution for a competent passing offense or rather for any form of consistent game flow to keep the chains moving.

And while his pass completion rate is an issue, the bigger concern is how often he missed wide open receivers without pressure in the backfield or threw an uncatchable dart to a receiver a few feet away from him. From the tape, Athan looks much more reliable in this regard when he has time. This is what I’m most optimistic about. Also - though not as many attempts, Athan ran quite well too in 2022 with better line protection.

Yeah I agree on next season, have to get something out of the passing game to take the next step as a program. I'm just saying idk about being confident in the guy being pushed out at freaking Minnesota. I hope he is that guy just as much as I hope Gavin becomes that guy.

 

[RUBOB72]

The question remains

No - that’s not it. Nobody is saying he didn’t contribute. We’re saying that those burst runs, while great, are still not a substitution for a competent passing offense or rather for any form of consistent game flow to keep the chains moving.

And while his pass completion rate is an issue, the bigger concern is how often he missed wide open receivers without pressure in the backfield or threw an uncatchable dart to a receiver a few feet away from him. From the tape, Athan looks much more reliable in this regard when he has time. This is what I’m most optimistic about. Also - though not as many attempts, Athan ran quite well too in 2022 with better line protection.

That is why we never have “that guy”… our QB analysts like on sports shows have their favorites. Most college QB’s are not as accurate as we sometime assume. It’s Team concept… all areas impact guys like GW and AK and others. For example I like this Sheppard kid… but I only remember his early season cup of coffee. So how about him. Rich and Mike what’ s the take from practices this fall ? Guaranteed when AJ arrives people on this board will clamor for his being KNIGHTED our guy.

 

[mb5789]

How about you do it for 2022 when Athan had a more competent line blocking for him?

And also on Gavin - how many of those rushes were in bend but don’t break time when our opponent was looking to eat clock while nursing a multi score lead?

2022:

Athan rushed 32 times on the season for 151 yards (4.72 yards per carry) and 1 TD

Athan was sacked 6 times for negative -40 yards.

Lets remove the sacks from this rushing totals...

Athan rushed the ball 26 times for 191 yards in 2022 (7.35 yards per carry). 21.99% of those yards came on 2 plays (23 yarder (12.04%) vs Wisconsin and 19 yarder (9.95%) vs Iowa). Of those 26 rushes, 13 were scrambles (50% were designed runs).

That means the remaining 24 rushes he had on the season went for 149 yards (6.21 yards per carry).

Athan's rushing TD came from 1 yard out.

 

[Eagleton96]

I think everyone doing a deep dive into the stats just needs to watch the film TKR just posted, and then watch the film of GW's throws. These are generalizations, but the pattern seems to be:

AK = Making hard throws, downfield or in tight spaces, under pressure, many tips at the line, scrambling to buy time, with lots of drops from the receivers, and lots of forcing the issue into tight coverage playing from behind. And drawing a fair number of DPI calls each game.

GW = Making much easier throws, in more favorable down/distance, with time, rarely scrambling, too often badly missing open receivers, not being relied to make plays with the game on the line.

 

[bitnez]

So in the Rutgers offense what was its purpose? From your perspective watching the plays would you say that the delay on every hand off was to allow the guard time to pull?

We didn't always pull. We would sometimes bring JL in motion and ask him to lead block and other times have jet motion action as well. A delay was to alllow that to happen. There were other times when we simply blocked down and the delay allowed Kyle to assess whether to stretch it or go backside, which often ended up being up a rush up the middle because the line did such a good job blocking down. All of that said, as I mentioned, the delay at the mesh point does provide some deception. Gavin improved at that over the year.

I don't know how to link it but someone put a video on Youtube the other day called "Kyle Monangai || Big Ten Leading Rusher || 2023 Season Highlights". It gives you a good idea of our run game and you can see the benefit(s) of the delayed handoff. You will also see that more than a few times the defense still attacked Kyle and he beat it anyway.

 

[bitnez]

The question remains

That is why we never have “that guy”… our QB analysts like on sports shows have their favorites. Most college QB’s are not as accurate as we sometime assume. It’s Team concept… all areas impact guys like GW and AK and others. For example I like this Sheppard kid… but I only remember his early season cup of coffee. So how about him. Rich and Mike what’ s the take from practices this fall ? Guaranteed when AJ arrives people on this board will clamor for his being KNIGHTED our guy.

As effective as we were running the ball -- even against very good defenses (at times) -- we should have many more big plays down the field. Instead, most of our throws were close to the LOS.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

2022:

Athan rushed 32 times on the season for 151 yards (4.72 yards per carry) and 1 TD

Athan was sacked 6 times for negative -40 yards.

Lets remove the sacks from this rushing totals...

Athan rushed the ball 26 times for 191 yards in 2022 (7.35 yards per carry). 21.99% of those yards came on 2 plays (23 yarder (12.04%) vs Wisconsin and 19 yarder (9.95%) vs Iowa). Of those 26 rushes, 13 were scrambles (50% were designed runs).

That means the remaining 24 rushes he had on the season went for 149 yards (6.21 yards per carry).

Athan's rushing TD came from 1 yard out.

Thanks - seems like pretty solid rush stats to me for a redshirt frosh.

 

[RUforJERSEY]

How about you do it for 2022 when Athan had a more competent line blocking for him?

And also on Gavin - how many of those rushes were in bend but don’t break time when our opponent was looking to eat clock while nursing a multi score lead?

Seems like your main thing is to minimize any statistical edge that Wimsatt may have had. While at the same time look for reasons or justifications if you will for why Kaliakmanis' might have been lesser in those same areas.

 

[RUBOB72]

Ohio State was game on the line?
Michigan was game on the line?
Penn State was game on the line?
Maryland was game on the line?
Iowa was game on the line?
Wisconsin was game on the line?

Yes maybe several were much closer with a better passing game but the reality is neither of these players have shown enough to be definitively better. I really want to see both these guys, along with Ajani Sheppard and AJ Surace to give us the consistency and depth which Rutgers will need. This is not a guaranteed 8-4 or more type of schedule regardless how some think it’s set up to be in 2024. Staying healthy is the key factor in any season as we saw several years ago.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

This is what is confusing to me... wanting the QB that lost his starting job at Qb in Minnesota to come in and be the day one starter, no competition or anything. Lost his job at Minnesota. I hope he comes in here and is what you guys seem to think he is. But I also want Gavin to improve and be a good passer. Either one would be a great outcome. But how is it mediocre to hope wimsatt improves but not mediocre to think that the guy who lost his job in Minnesota can come beat everyone on your roster for a starting job? It's hopes and dreams just like Gav becoming a better passer is hopes and dreams..

It’s fine & natural to want Gavin to improve.

It’s also fine and natural to understand the improvements needed may never occur to the level needed to be a slightly below average P5 QB.

This is no longer about he’s got a higher ceiling after this season. That bar was lowered tremendously with his lack of improvement as a passer with each passing game.

Gavin’s sweet spot is scripted plays, similar to Art. Once those are run his performance drops significantly. RU needs a QB who can handle the game plan for 4 quarters not 1.5 or less.

I really didn’t see Gavin as a P5 QB last year, way too raw and thought a position change to WR could have been more beneficial to him & the team. While I saw some progress this year it’s not at the level needed to continue moving forward with him.m

With Athan, RU has a more polished and natural player at the position. Someone Kirk pounded the table for as no other QB was looked at and there were many options available. So using the “lost his job” line is really you saying Kirk doesn’t know what he’s doing.