Where does Pike rank?

[Mholinko]

Food for thought for the Pike supporters… 18 coaches in the Big10. How many would you truly rather have Pike than if you needed to win a game?

In my opinion it’s a very short list
Minnesota - Ben Johnson
Penn State - Mike Rhoades
Indiana - Mike Woodson

Jury still out on Diebler at Ohio state and sprinkle at Washington they are too new into their tenure but even if I split he’s at best 14th best coach in the league

anybody being 14th out of 18 at anything is not up to par

 

[bac2therac]

Food for thought for the Pike supporters… 18 coaches in the Big10. How many would you truly rather have Pike than if you needed to win a game?

In my opinion it’s a very short list
Minnesota - Ben Johnson
Penn State - Mike Rhoades
Indiana - Mike Woodson

Jury still out on Diebler at Ohio state and sprinkle at Washington they are too new into their tenure but even if I split he’s at best 14th best coach in the league

anybody being 14th out of 18 at anything is not up to par

Fair assessment. At best 13th/14th after being in the league 9 years with all the other issues Rutgers facing with $$$ is a bad combo

 

[Mholinko]

Fair assessment. At best 13th/14th after being in the league 9 years with all the other issues Rutgers facing with $$$ is a bad combo

I don’t think it’s all that close to the next group either who you’d probably argue is Hoiberg, Collins, Willard, McCaffrey, Musselman

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I really don't understand the question. When is the game? With what roster?

If you want to ask a blanket question....assuming coaching slalary is not in the equation and money available to "buy" players was what RU has which coach would you rather have......

I still Pike in the upper half. He has shown the ability to win with less talent and I think that is going to be the environment we will be in. If we are talking about school with money (like a Michigan) Pike wouldn't be as high.

 

[Mholinko]

I really don't understand the question. When is the game? With what roster?

If you want to ask a blanket question....assuming coaching slalary is not in the equation and money available to "buy" players was what RU has which coach would you rather have......

I still Pike in the upper half. He has shown the ability to win with less talent and I think that is going to be the environment we will be in. If we are talking about school with money (like a Michigan) Pike wouldn't be as high.

The question is where would you rank him amongst coaches in the big 10 if you needed to win a game and you could look at it long term

In either case you said top half so which 9 coaches is he better than

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Someone needs to show me documentation from past threads showing me people that thought the extension was too much 2 years ago and why Pike wasn't an upper half B1G coach. Maybe 2 or 3 posters top.

 

[Mholinko]

I really don't understand the question. When is the game? With what roster?

If you want to ask a blanket question....assuming coaching slalary is not in the equation and money available to "buy" players was what RU has which coach would you rather have......

I still Pike in the upper half. He has shown the ability to win with less talent and I think that is going to be the environment we will be in. If we are talking about school with money (like a Michigan) Pike wouldn't be as high.

I don’t think you can argue if he’s better than dusty may I don’t think it’s remotely close

For your argument about buying players I did say I liked him better than Woodson

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The question is where would you rank him amongst coaches in the big 10 if you needed to win a game and you could look at it long term

In either case you said top half so which 9 coaches is he better than

needing to win a game?

are you trying to say X and O?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I don’t think you can argue if he’s better than dusty may I don’t think it’s remotely close

For your argument about buying players I did say I liked him better than Woodson

So why is Dusty May better than Pike?

 

[Mholinko]

Someone needs to show me documentation from past threads showing me people that thought the extension was too much 2 years ago and why Pike wasn't an upper half B1G coach. Maybe 2 or 3 posters top.

I didn’t think 1 ncaa win in 6 years warranted that type of contract from an athletic department that is operating with thin margins to begin with

I would take Altman, hoiberg, Greg gard, Fran, underwood, Izzo, painter, musselman, dusty may, Chris Collins without much consideration so he’s not really close to top half

 

[bac2therac]

Someone needs to show me documentation from past threads showing me people that thought the extension was too much 2 years ago and why Pike wasn't an upper half B1G coach. Maybe 2 or 3 posters top.

He had just got an extension

 

[Mholinko]

needing to win a game?

are you trying to say X and O?

I don’t think it matters much which metric he’s not a top tier coach in the league and I’m merely asking the board to consider how many coaches you truly like him better than

 

[Mholinko]

So why is Dusty May better than Pike?

A final four and additional tournament appearance at an afterthought program in 5 years whereas pike took a decade to get one bid at stony brook

Pretty simple

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I didn’t think 1 ncaa win in 6 years warranted that type of contract from an athletic department that is operating with thin margins to begin with

I would take Altman, hoiberg, Greg gard, Fran, underwood, Izzo, painter, musselman, dusty may, Chris Collins without much consideration so he’s not really close to top half

did you say it?

Whose budget do those coaches have? RU?

 

[bac2therac]

So why is Dusty May better than Pike?

Wow

 

[bac2therac]

did you say it?

Whose budget do those coaches have? RU?

Isn't Brandon Knight one of the highest paid assistants

Didn't Pike have someone pay over $3 million for 2 top 5 nba draft picks to come here

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I don’t think it matters much which metric he’s not a top tier coach in the league and I’m merely asking the board to consider how many coaches you truly like him better than

It isn't apples to oranges. I can't say I'd rather have Dusty May over Pike.

Dusty May is the exact same coach if he lost to memphis in the 1st round or made it to the Final 4. One possession doesn't instantly make him that much better of a coach.

Would Dusty May succeed at RU? I have no idea. He wouldn't have Goldin and Wolf.

 

[bac2therac]

It isn't apples to oranges. I can't say I'd rather have Dusty May over Pike.

Dusty May is the exact same coach if he lost to memphis in the 1st round or made it to the Final 4. One possession doesn't instantly make him that much better of a coach.

Would Dusty May succeed at RU? I have no idea. He wouldn't have Goldin and Wolf.

He would have Ace/Dylan

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Isn't Brandon Knight one of the highest paid assistants

Didn't Pike have someone pay over $3 million for 2 top 5 nba draft picks to come here

That was a mistake. Was tough to turn down. I was on record, as you know, saying so at the time. Put him in the wrong lane. He needs to go back to what he is.

The legitimate concern I have is how does he navigate the current environment and how active will he be in attempting to raise money. Really tough to do on his own given there is no AD or president or any type of infrastructure.

I am sure Dusty May role in raising money would either be
A. not necessary as others handle
B. he comes in as a closer

 

[Mr Magoo]

Bottom 3, right near where the team is…Woodson has jumped him lately although he’s on the way out. He’s probably better than Rhodes and Johnson. Not better than Sprinkle as we’ll see in a couple of season. So I got him at 16th. I think (but I’m not sure), that if you figure in salaries, it’s worse.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

He would have Ace/Dylan

That is where I think people have it wrong.......Dusty May isn't going to have Ace and Dylan playing D, being in shape, and playing through injuries. He isn't going to magically have them bond with Burnett, Wolf and Goldin.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Bottom 3, right near where the team is…Woodson has jumped him lately although he’s on the way out. He’s probably better than Rhodes and Johnson. Not better than Sprinkle as we’ll see in a couple of season. So I got him at 16th.

So when you had him in the Top 8 2 years ago you were wrong?

 

[Mr Magoo]

So when you had him in the Top 8 2 years ago you were wrong?

Not sure if I ever did, but yes, things change, as do the coaches he’s compared against. Never ever thought he was a good game coach but his recruiting (aside from the lottery picks that were almost handed to him), has gone down big time.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

That is where I think people have it wrong.......Dusty May isn't going to have Ace and Dylan playing D, being in shape, and playing through injuries. He isn't going to magically have them bond with Burnett, Wolf and Goldin.

I would be pretty confident to say if May came on Day 1 and has Ace and Dylan Michigan would be fighting right now just to get in the NCAAs.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Not sure if I ever did, but yes, things change, as do the coaches he’s compared against.

Bring Collins and Fran and May and Underwood and Altman to Rutgers and see how they do.

Collins is the only apples to apples comparison.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

How many coaches can you say have the program at a better position than when they started

 

[needmorecowbell]

Some of the takes here are just awful. You want to judge Pike on his worst season. Go ahead. In 2019-2021 every team in the league was wishing Pike was their coach. Pike was 1 of 2-3 coaches to win 10 or more Big Ten game 4 years in a row from 2019-2023.

 

[bac2therac]

That is where I think people have it wrong.......Dusty May isn't going to have Ace and Dylan playing D, being in shape, and playing through injuries. He isn't going to magically have them bond with Burnett, Wolf and Goldin.

He would win

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

He would win

not with this roster....with that I am pretty confident.

 

[kt124]

Some of the takes here are just awful. You want to judge Pike on his worst season. Go ahead. In 2019-2021 every team in the league was wishing Pike was their coach. Pike was 1 of 2-3 coaches to win 10 or more Big Ten game 4 years in a row from 2019-2023.

that’s a pretty big exaggeration imo.. and yes we had some good seasons but we were never even in contention for a B1G regular season title:

11-9
10-10
12-8
10-10

good, not great. and we have seen now that that was Pike’s ceiling.

 

[darkcheck]

Some of the takes here are just awful. You want to judge Pike on his worst season. Go ahead. In 2019-2021 every team in the league was wishing Pike was their coach. Pike was 1 of 2-3 coaches to win 10 or more Big Ten game 4 years in a row from 2019-2023.

2021 was four years ago now. That’s a lot for everyone but Rutgers fans who still celebrate the final four run of FIFTY YEARS AGO. The last three years have been a steady, sharp slide downward. You can’t continue to prop up someone who did good for a stint, years ago, when you could get a three star and sit on him and develop him. Being a good coach is adapting. Pike can’t adapt out of timeouts or halftimes. He’s not a top half big ten coach. Might be bottom quarter. What he was isn’t what he is now.

 

[Smols]

that’s a pretty big exaggeration imo.. and yes we had some good seasons but we were never even in contention for a B1G regular season title:

11-9
10-10
12-8
10-10

good, not great. and we have seen now that that was Pike’s ceiling.

A fan base that is satisfied with mediocrity.

 

[darkcheck]

that’s a pretty big exaggeration imo.. and yes we had some good seasons but we were never even in contention for a B1G regular season title:

11-9
10-10
12-8
10-10

good, not great. and we have seen now that that was Pike’s ceiling.

.400 big ten winning percentage over nine years and over the last 3 as well

 

[Mr Magoo]

Bring Collins and Fran and May and Underwood and Altman to Rutgers and see how they do.

Collins is the only apples to apples comparison.

We’ll never know the answer to that. Altman has done very well everywhere he’s been, granted with better programs and resources. Yes, Pike took the program from ashes and built it up…and obvious strength of his. I see it going back down to where it started right now because the game has changed and not to his advantage. I do know that I would rather have all of the coaches you mention rather than Pike, though I woundn’t care for Fran (even though he’s pretty much owned Pike over the years).

 

[NickRU714]

Bring Collins and Fran and May and Underwood and Altman to Rutgers and see how they do.

Collins is the only apples to apples comparison.

The question isn't "how would other coaches do coaching the Rutgers roster?"

The real question is how much different would the roster look.

I don't care how Collins or Fran or May or anyone would do coaching JWill, Derkack and Davis.

Ideally any coach (Pike or whoever) wouldn’t have them on the roster to begin with.
Wouldn't have (let?) Clif continue to shoot over and over or "attempt" offensive moves that result in terrible shots and turnovers.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The question isn't "how would other coaches do coaching the Rutgers roster?"

The real question is how much different would the roster look.

I don't care how Collins or Fran or May or anyone would do coaching JWill, Derkack and Davis.

Ideally any coach (Pike or whoever) wouldn’t have them on the roster to begin with.
Wouldn't have (let?) Clif continue to shoot over and over or "attempt" offensive moves that result in terrible shots and turnovers.

Until NIL deals and amount schools pay to players are public we will never know a lot of the answers...or even the questions.

We don't what coaches broke the rules in the past and by how much.
We don't know what budget May had to buy Wolf and Goldin and retain certain players.

It is very possible that last year could have been very different if there was enough money to keep Mag happy alongside Mulcahy and Spencer.

This year we could have had Mag and Cliff alongside Ace and Dylan and someone of value from the portal.

All of a sudden there is NO debate about where Pike is in the pecking order.

 

[NickRU714]

Until NIL deals and amount schools pay to players are public we will never know a lot of the answers...or even the questions.

We don't what coaches broke the rules in the past and by how much.
We don't know what budget May had to buy Wolf and Goldin and retain certain players.

It is very possible that last year could have been very different if there was enough money to keep Mag happy alongside Mulcahy and Spencer.

This year we could have had Mag and Cliff alongside Ace and Dylan and someone of value from the portal.

All of a sudden there is NO debate about where Pike is in the pecking order.

None of that really matters though.
Every coach can play the "what if" game.

After all that occured, the staff decided JWill is starting as an off-ball wing. Davis and Derkack are going to be key rotation contributors.

Now - we don't know the entire universe of available players considering our available assets.

But I find it hard to believe these 3 poor shooters were the best available options.
Even Acuff was a bad-mediocre 3pt shooter previously (32%).

That's why I don't care if "even Pitino couldn't win with this roster".
Would Pitino have this roster in the first place? That's the key point.

 

[Mholinko]

Some of the takes here are just awful. You want to judge Pike on his worst season. Go ahead. In 2019-2021 every team in the league was wishing Pike was their coach. Pike was 1 of 2-3 coaches to win 10 or more Big Ten game 4 years in a row from 2019-2023.

This is the pinnacle of accepting low expectations at Rutgers

No university who has real aspirations of success would look at those 4 seasons and say wow we really crushed it

Pike is a good program organizer these types of coaches exist in the professional ranks. They are great at rebuilding dumpster fires and making them organized and respectable and you have a ceiling

Tom thibedeau for the knicks in the nba is an example and some would point to Sean McDermott with the bills as an example in the nfl… order, stability, professionalism yes ability to get you over the hump whatever you’re proverbial hump is no

It certainly doesn’t help pikes case that the landscape has changed but that is the landscape he has to be judged in and right now he’s a bottom tier coach in that era

 

[RUJMM78]

I didn’t think 1 ncaa win in 6 years warranted that type of contract from an athletic department that is operating with thin margins to begin with

I would take Altman, hoiberg, Greg gard, Fran, underwood, Izzo, painter, musselman, dusty may, Chris Collins without much consideration so he’s not really close to top half

Pikiell has been able to defeat Northwestern and Nebraska on a somewhat regular basis.Bottom line Rutgers right now is no better than a 11-18 B1G Ten type team which won't earn NCAA Tournament bids.They continue losing games to out of conference opponents that should be wins and only twice won more than 10 B1G Ten games.Fan disappointment is at all time high based on this seasons results with two elite freshmen.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

None of that really matters though.
Every coach can play the "what if" game.

After all that occured, the staff decided JWill is starting as an off-ball wing. Davis and Derkack are going to be key rotation contributors.

Now - we don't know the entire universe of available players considering our available assets.

But I find it hard to believe these 3 poor shooters were the best available options.
Even Acuff was a bad-mediocre 3pt shooter previously (32%).

That's why I don't care if "even Pitino couldn't win with this roster".
Would Pitino have this roster in the first place? That's the key point.

We will never know how much $ we had vs what was available.

I will stick with my original thoughts that attacking the shiny lure of Ace and Dylan doomed us.

We had little to no money
We had a potential transfer being stuck with 2 18 year olds that would be the face of the program
There would be very little opportunity on offense

What transfer would want to come here for no money and play with 2 guys that probably werent passing much.