And??? Once again completely whiffing on the narrative. You be you though. It's special. Keep focusing on things no one cares about. Individual games are meaningless. It's about the season and ultimately the tournament and what is achieved there.
Where does Pike rank?
- Thread starter Mholinko
- Start date
Lol. He has a final 4 with a mid major and his teams won several other games over big time programs. He took Michigan from 8 wins to 20 plus with by figuring out how to mesh 7-9 new players
But Pike was so good at Stony Brook
Pike couldn't figure out how to defend a mediocre Notre Dame in Dayton
You are not serious in this discussion
There is no defending this year. It is Pike ‘s worst coaching job by a long shot . He has done so many things this year that has me scratching me head. But to ignore 2019-2023, specifically 2023, when we were wrongly snubbed from the NCAA is also wrong. I am not talking about pulling us out of the gutter , he did that in 3 years. Then maintained a high level program in one of the toughest conferences from 2019-2023. Last year’s team couldn’t shoot and the drama with Mag and our terrible guards never got Cliff involved made it a bad year.
Pike lost 1 player to injury and the team dramatically dropped in performance..to me its a failure and indictment of recruiting
Anemic in home losses to Michigan and Northwestern and blew 10 point at a terrible Minnesota
weird to criticize a coach who’s made it to a final four while defending a coach who’s only ever gotten to the round of 32 once
Be the first to speak to you when Michigan goes out of the tourney in a flash.
And..what would that mean
Rutgers hasn't had a season like Michigan's since the 70s
His accomplishments already dwarf Pikes 20 years of 1 ncaa win
What conference was he doing it in ? You really think Michigan is good this year or just a little lucky ? You think his coaching has been elite ? He brought in 3 of the top portal players that are playing like it , kinda how they played at their last stop. Not seeing anything he did that stood out.
That's because you have a ~75 IQ.
Bottom three is a ridiculous ranking considering he's not even bottom three in raw results despite the obvious resource disadvantage.
It absolutely matters what we're going to do after firing him. Proven upper-mid to high-major level winning coach? Sign me up, fire him Sunday night. Rolling the dice on the next coach with a good record in the NEC? No thanks. I mean we might get there eventually but it's worth having a little more patience before going that route.
I know you don't get this but that goes back to the ~75 IQ problem. It's difficult to teach algebra to a three year old.
FYI here are the average EMs for the 18 current B1G teams from the 2019-20 season through the 2024-25 season:
1. Purdue +19.1
2. UCLA +18.8
3. Illinois +17.6
4. Iowa +17.6
5. Ohio St +17.4
6. Michigan +17.4
7. Wisconsin +16.3
8. Oregon +16.2
9. Michigan St +15.7
10. Maryland +14.8
11. USC +14.6
12. Indiana +14.2
13. Rutgers +13.1
14. Penn St +11.7
15. Northwestern +10.8
16. Minnesota +8.6
17. Nebraska +7.6
18. Washington +7.2
Overall average there is +14.4 (average excluding new additions is also +14.4) . So 13th out of the 18 current schools or 10th out of the previous 14, a slightly below average B1G team.
Given he's achieved slightly below average B1G results with significantly below B1G average resources, a reasonable conclusion would be that he is a slightly above B1G average coach.
Caveats:
(1) This is among all of the B1G coaches that have been around over that period, not just the current group. Though there is no particular reason to believe the current group is better or worse than the overall average.
(2) You can argue that it is a new era of college basketball and Pike sucks for this new era. This might be true but you probably need more than two years to know that.
1. Purdue +19.1
2. UCLA +18.8
3. Illinois +17.6
4. Iowa +17.6
5. Ohio St +17.4
6. Michigan +17.4
7. Wisconsin +16.3
8. Oregon +16.2
9. Michigan St +15.7
10. Maryland +14.8
11. USC +14.6
12. Indiana +14.2
13. Rutgers +13.1
14. Penn St +11.7
15. Northwestern +10.8
16. Minnesota +8.6
17. Nebraska +7.6
18. Washington +7.2
Overall average there is +14.4 (average excluding new additions is also +14.4) . So 13th out of the 18 current schools or 10th out of the previous 14, a slightly below average B1G team.
Given he's achieved slightly below average B1G results with significantly below B1G average resources, a reasonable conclusion would be that he is a slightly above B1G average coach.
Caveats:
(1) This is among all of the B1G coaches that have been around over that period, not just the current group. Though there is no particular reason to believe the current group is better or worse than the overall average.
(2) You can argue that it is a new era of college basketball and Pike sucks for this new era. This might be true but you probably need more than two years to know that.
To squeeze 2023 in there is ridiculous. One injury and the team folded like a cheap suit. He couldn’t coach them through the Minne ending and let his bench party and dance through the last few minutes. Accountability left the program that season. This team has been getting worse every year for the last three. Pike succeeding in bringing us back from the worst. He had two winning big ten seasons. But don’t kid yourself, 2022-23 to now has us headed back toward where he brought us back from. His days of getting under recruited three stars to buy in and stick around for 3-4 years are over. He got lucky with Geo, RHJ and Caleb etc
Looking at the list, these guys have been there the whole time and done better than Pikiell:
Tom Izzo
Greg Gard
Matt Painter
Mick Cronin
Brad Underwood
Data Altman
Fran McCaffery
Additionally, Eric Musselman was coaching at a P5 level the whole time at has a higher average (+14.8) as did Kevin Willard (+16.1).
If I chop off Dusty May's first three years at FAU his average from 2022-2025 include three years in CUSA is about the same as Pike (mostly because 2022 was pretty bad). So I will also give him the nod.
So I think it would be reasonable to put those 10 above Pike.
--
These guys have been there the whole time and done worse:
Fred Hoiberg
Chris Collins
Additionally Ben Johnson does not seem to have made much progress at Minnesota and Mike Woodson has only been slightly above Pike at Indiana despite it being Indiana and them putting their entire heart and soul into trying to win at basketball.
I would put those 4 as clearly below Pike.
--
Jake Diebler and Danny Sprinkle it is clearly too early to tell. Personally I would rather have Pike I think but there's really not enough results to go on. Mike Rhoades kind of a toss up, his average over the period is a bit worse than Pike but 4 of the 6 years are at VCU which is obviously a lower level so not really a fair comparison. More wait and see. Probably I would put Pike like 2nd in that group of 4 including himself.
--
So going by that we have Pike at ~12th in the 18 team conference
Tom Izzo
Greg Gard
Matt Painter
Mick Cronin
Brad Underwood
Data Altman
Fran McCaffery
Additionally, Eric Musselman was coaching at a P5 level the whole time at has a higher average (+14.8) as did Kevin Willard (+16.1).
If I chop off Dusty May's first three years at FAU his average from 2022-2025 include three years in CUSA is about the same as Pike (mostly because 2022 was pretty bad). So I will also give him the nod.
So I think it would be reasonable to put those 10 above Pike.
--
These guys have been there the whole time and done worse:
Fred Hoiberg
Chris Collins
Additionally Ben Johnson does not seem to have made much progress at Minnesota and Mike Woodson has only been slightly above Pike at Indiana despite it being Indiana and them putting their entire heart and soul into trying to win at basketball.
I would put those 4 as clearly below Pike.
--
Jake Diebler and Danny Sprinkle it is clearly too early to tell. Personally I would rather have Pike I think but there's really not enough results to go on. Mike Rhoades kind of a toss up, his average over the period is a bit worse than Pike but 4 of the 6 years are at VCU which is obviously a lower level so not really a fair comparison. More wait and see. Probably I would put Pike like 2nd in that group of 4 including himself.
--
So going by that we have Pike at ~12th in the 18 team conference
please do not minimize Fla Atlantic run to the Final 4
are you not including Hoiberg 4 years of ncaa at Iowa State he is at worst equal with Pike and based on his time at Iowa State arguably a notch better
Collins has 3 ncaa appearances and 3 wins and a 2nd place finish...i think a coach exactly similar to Pike since both programs are similar spots with small fanbases and low expectations
so not sure how they are clearly above Pike...i can take the argument that they are the same
whatever the case it puts Pike in the bottom part of the league although he is being paid or was a year ago #26 in the country
are you not including Hoiberg 4 years of ncaa at Iowa State he is at worst equal with Pike and based on his time at Iowa State arguably a notch better
Collins has 3 ncaa appearances and 3 wins and a 2nd place finish...i think a coach exactly similar to Pike since both programs are similar spots with small fanbases and low expectations
so not sure how they are clearly above Pike...i can take the argument that they are the same
whatever the case it puts Pike in the bottom part of the league although he is being paid or was a year ago #26 in the country
the 3 games vs Michigan and Northwestern at home they didnt have a pulse, they also were blitzed by Iowa earlier that year and possibly Nebby but not sure on that one. The Minnesota collapse speaks for itself
Honestly, how hard is it to be bottom part of the B1G, with all the resources that affords. When you start to think about Pikes accomplishments in comparison to his peers, it feels pretty ordinary. He gets a lot of run out of the fact that we were so bad for so long. That just can't be the barometer anymore though.
I'm going to minimize it (season long results are more important than tournament runs, they were an 8 seed) but even given that what he did at FAU was impressive and I put him on the "clearly above Pike" list.
Not including Iowa State, was only looking at 2020-25 but I dunno. He left Iowa State a full decade ago. He's had time to get it done at Nebraska and has been bad 5 out of 6 years. He also didn't take over a complete dumpster fire. But I will grant you it's maybe a bit closer than I gave him.
Well again I wasn't looking back to 2017 but 3 appearances in a 12 year span. Or 3 out of 9 if I give him the 3 free years.
Pike gets credit for three appearance in 9 years or 6 if you chop off three. That's better. Also just a better average team if you look at entire seasons. Also 2nd place finish at 12-8... tie breakers doing a lot of work there. You won't be able to convince me on this one.
He is #26 on this list
Men's Basketball Head Coach Salaries - USA TODAY
Ever wondered who the highest paid coach in men's basketball is? Find out today with USA TODAY's complete salary data.
sportsdata.usatoday.com
Though I would note that:
There is a fair amount of bunching there. The gap between Pike and #10 is the same as the gap between Pike and ~#55. We would need to offer an established coach a significant premium if we wanted to poach them. Take Mike Boynton, kyk's favorite guy. He is at $3mm here, could we poach him for less than $4mm? Pike is at $3.5m. Are we going to pay a replacement MORE to start? If not, it's a dangerous game imo.
..especially when he has been trending downward and the outlook for next season is bleak.
Hoiberg has been trending in the right direction, last year ncaa and co coach of the year, this year they were just about in but now blowing it but they still are right there on the bubble today so thats not over yetI'm going to minimize it (season long results are more important than tournament runs, they were an 8 seed) but even given that what he did at FAU was impressive and I put him on the "clearly above Pike" list.
Not including Iowa State, was only looking at 2020-25 but I dunno. He left Iowa State a full decade ago. He's had time to get it done at Nebraska and has been bad 5 out of 6 years. He also didn't take over a complete dumpster fire. But I will grant you it's maybe a bit closer than I gave him.
Well again I wasn't looking back to 2017 but 3 appearances in a 12 year span. Or 3 out of 9 if I give him the 3 free years.
Pike gets credit for three appearance in 9 years or 6 if you chop off three. That's better. Also just a better average team if you look at entire seasons. Also 2nd place finish at 12-8... tie breakers doing a lot of work there. You won't be able to convince me on this one.
He is #26 on this list
Men's Basketball Head Coach Salaries - USA TODAY
Ever wondered who the highest paid coach in men's basketball is? Find out today with USA TODAY's complete salary data.sportsdata.usatoday.com
Though I would note that:
There is a fair amount of bunching there. The gap between Pike and #10 is the same as the gap between Pike and ~#55. We would need to offer an established coach a significant premium if we wanted to poach them. Take Mike Boynton, kyk's favorite guy. He is at $3mm here, could we poach him for less than $4mm? Pike is at $3.5m. Are we going to pay a replacement MORE to start? If not, it's a dangerous game imo.
doesnt change that really its tough to argue he isnt in the bottom third
Well I put him 12th, technically that's in the middle third.
But regardless, are we realistically going to hire a coach that is better than these guys:
Tom Izzo
Greg Gard
Matt Painter
Mick Cronin
Brad Underwood
Data Altman
Fran McCaffery
Eric Musselman
Kevin Willard
Dusty May
I would absolutely love it if the university were to make the kind of committment that would be necessary to make that happen. But realistically, I expect we will just hire the equivalant of Pike i.e. a guy who went 67-13 in the America East conference the last 5 years. In expectation, that does not get us a coach that is better than those guys either.
A couple more years of fulility and we will be forced to make the gamble, but there is no reason to jump early just to go around and around this circle again.
He was 1 possession from never getting out of the 1st round.
Shaheen holloway get credit for catching lightning in a bottle?
How many wins by 4 points or less . You do not think it has some luck to Michigan wins. Kinda how you believe refs have no impacts on games. Michigan beating us both times had no luck to it. Got it.
Michigan has been a bit lucky this year but that's still a good team and a huge improvement from last season.
Stop it. You had us in the tourney you bracketologist unless now just a hypocrite.
They were a dumpster fire with Howard last year. You want to talk bad coaching Howard is a name you can start with.
Funny thing is half the UW fan base wanted to run Gard out of town after the Badgers finished 15-18 after his third season as head coach.
Pike is dead last in my opinion. Constantly outcoached by the rival coach. Game of NIL/ transfer portal is beyond his comprehension.
We are cheap. I seem to remember pre Pike we had an opening and Pitino had a daughter going to school in NYC. He was dropping serious hints he would want our job but there was no way we were going to pay him. Seem to agree we would just get another low major overachiever. I guess it really matters who the next AD is
But he got out of the first round. We blew a ten point lead v HOu. I wish we had that FAU run.
Pike was a JY play away from not making his 2nd ncaa
But can see the argument..putrid down the stretch and needed furious comebacks to beat Wisconsin on road
The drop off was clearly evident
I’d reserve judgment on Ben Johnson
If I recall, his squad had a good year last year and he has certainly exceeded expectations this year albeit his first 2 years were rough.
I’m sure Minnesota has minimal NIL.
Oh man. Good thing my little brain is too little to understand the personal insults.
And how did that "arrival" work out?
If everyone said we finally arrived then it must have happened.
Never said beating Purdue wasn't a great achievement.
Pointed out that Purdue and their season long success was a better achievement than Rutgers beating the #1 team.
Do you disagree?
We beat Indiana on the RHJ buzzer beater in 2021-2022. Great game.
They made it out of the First 4. We didn't.
Hypothetical for you: I'll try and make it simple so my little brain can keep up.
Would you take Rutgers being ranked in the Top 5 and eventually making the Sweet 16 if it meant we lost to an unranked team at home when we in the Top 5?
Or would you rather be the unranked team who beat the Top 5 team and "arrived on the big stage" but eventually did nothing else that season?
That's the point my little brain was making.
Similar threads
