Will we see Pikiell's Preferred style of Offense this Year?

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

This is what he said When he was hired....or, has he changed? Does he have the players yet?

I want to get up and down the court, I want to play exciting, I want to throw alley oops passes, and I want to defend and be tough. That's how I want to play. Your roster dictates a lot of how you play, so until I have full control over the roster, we are going to figure out a way to win. And that's going to be the way we are going play early on here. I want to run and I want to press and I want my guys to have a lot of freedom on the offensive end but we play tough gritty defense on the defensive end."


https://www.onthebanks.com/2016/5/2...erred-playing-style-big-ten-uconn-stony-brook

 

[Dpgru]

My guess is that he will try to achieve that style with this group. They're young so if some of these guys aren't BIG ready he may find that he doesn't have the depth to get it done and will scale back to a rotation with less players. But if the young guys can play then I don't see why it can't happen.

 

[Scangg]

Can't play that style with so little depth. This year we might see it

 

[higgins3]

This is the team to do it.

What is the biggest jump from HS to D1? Offensive skillsets, ability to get shots off when everyone you are playing is 6 3, when every one you are driving on is 6 8 in the paint. It is a rough transition.

What is usually easiest to players? Defense, and playing in transition.

This team has the pieces to work on defense and transition. It suits their abilities.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I want to run and I want to press and I want my guys to have a lot of freedom on the offensive end but we play tough gritty defense on the defensive end."

I think we saw that the past 2 years with the exception of pressing (depth!). I can see us 10-15 possession per game (maybe off of FT makes) going some type of full court defense designed to turnover and not just shorten the shot clock

 

[dkostus]

This is the team to do it.

What is the biggest jump from HS to D1? Offensive skillsets, ability to get shots off when everyone you are playing is 6 3, when every one you are driving on is 6 8 in the paint. It is a rough transition.

What is usually easiest to players? Defense, and playing in transition.

This team has the pieces to work on defense and transition. It suits their abilities.

It would also be a good way to extend the rotation... let Geo top out at 28/mpg, Thiam and Gene at 25/mpg, and then get all these kids out there for no more than 20/mpg each just running around like crazy and bringing some real intensity to the floor but with a constant stream of fresh bodies. True 11 man rotation:

In that scenario:
True big men Myles/Doucoure/Doorson max out at 40/mpg, between the three of them,
Veterans/leaders Geo, Thiam and Eugene get about 80/mpg, and that leaves
80 mpg for Kiss/Mathis/McConnell/Harper and Shaq Carter. 4 of them get 15/mpg and one of them gets 20/mpg (or whatever combination thereof)

everyone is happy getting minutes and experience, and they're fresh enough for high intensity D the whole way. Team gets a lot of development going into the next season when Mulchahy and Young join and we expect to have an actual winning season with seniors Thiam/Omoruri/Carter and juniors Baker/Doucoure/Kiss/Young leading the way on a veteran team.

 

[mikefla]

I expect coach P will install the most potent offense he can this year

I expect this year will a notch better than last years team
and a good bit better than our initial year

We have mildly better depth now

 

[Degaz-RU]

We have mildly better depth now

Mildly?

I mean, setting aside we lost Sanders, the OVERALL DEPTH on the team this year will be MARKEDLY better than last year.

Last year, we basically had three guards (Sanders, Baker, and Williams), and our guard "depth" consisted of, ugh, Souf Mensah and walkon Jake Dadika. This year, we will have Baker, McConnell, Kiss, Mathis, and probably a grad transfer at the guard spots. This year gets the clear nod in terms of depth (while again recognizing that we lost our "best" guard from last year).

Last year, we had one WF (Thiam), but had to use undersized Williams, skinny Baker, and, when injuries hit, Bullock at the WF spot. This year it will be Thiam, Harper, and Kiss/Mathis. This year gets the clear nod again in terms of depth.

Last year, we had five "bigs" (Freeman, Sa, Omoruyi, Doucoure and Doorson). This year, we will also have five bigs (Omoruyi, Doucoure, Doorson, Carter, and Johnson). So let's call that a push, although I believe this year's bigs will have more skill than last year's bigs.

 

[Scangg]

We have mildly better depth now

Mildly?

I mean, setting aside we lost Sanders, the OVERALL DEPTH on the team this year will be MARKEDLY better than last year.

Last year, we basically had three guards (Sanders, Baker, and Williams), and our guard "depth" consisted of, ugh, Souf Mensah and walkon Jake Dadika. This year, we will have Baker, McConnell, Kiss, Mathis, and probably a grad transfer at the guard spots. This year gets the clear nod in terms of depth (while again recognizing that we lost our "best" guard from last year).

Last year, we had one WF (Thiam), but had to use undersized Williams, skinny Baker, and, when injuries hit, Bullock at the WF spot. This year it will be Thiam, Harper, and Kiss/Mathis. This year gets the clear nod again in terms of depth.

Last year, we had five "bigs" (Freeman, Sa, Omoruyi, Doucoure and Doorson). This year, we will also have five bigs (Omoruyi, Doucoure, Doorson, Carter, and Johnson). So let's call that a push, although I believe this year's bigs will have more skill than last year's bigs.

Exactlyyy. The depth is the biggest improvement I would say. It's #KnightandDay

 

[Scangg]

This is the team to do it.

What is the biggest jump from HS to D1? Offensive skillsets, ability to get shots off when everyone you are playing is 6 3, when every one you are driving on is 6 8 in the paint. It is a rough transition.

What is usually easiest to players? Defense, and playing in transition.

This team has the pieces to work on defense and transition. It suits their abilities.

It would also be a good way to extend the rotation... let Geo top out at 28/mpg, Thiam and Gene at 25/mpg, and then get all these kids out there for no more than 20/mpg each just running around like crazy and bringing some real intensity to the floor but with a constant stream of fresh bodies. True 11 man rotation:

In that scenario:
True big men Myles/Doucoure/Doorson max out at 40/mpg, between the three of them,
Veterans/leaders Geo, Thiam and Eugene get about 80/mpg, and that leaves
80 mpg for Kiss/Mathis/McConnell/Harper and Shaq Carter. 4 of them get 15/mpg and one of them gets 20/mpg (or whatever combination thereof)

everyone is happy getting minutes and experience, and they're fresh enough for high intensity D the whole way. Team gets a lot of development going into the next season when Mulchahy and Young join and we expect to have an actual winning season with seniors Thiam/Omoruri/Carter and juniors Baker/Doucoure/Kiss/Young leading the way on a veteran team.

I could definitely see a deep rotation with minutes divided up to keep people fresh and really push the pace and press. It would also be a fan friendly exciting style to watch as well. Pike has so many more options this year where his coaching talent will have more of a chance to shine

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Once again, going back to some early Pikiell interviews.....

He said he will play players based on the roster and how they can contribute. Some years at Stony Brook he went 11-12 deep, other years he did not. Depends on the roster and who can contribute.

IMO, I think this is the year Pikiell goes deep into his bench with pressure defense to try to gain a competitive advantage.

 

[Scangg]

Once again, going back to some early Pikiell interviews.....

He said he will play players based on the roster and how they can contribute. Some years at Stony Brook he went 11-12 deep, other years he did not. Depends on the roster and who can contribute.

IMO, I think this is the year Pikiell goes deep into his bench with pressure defense to try to gain a competitive advantage.

To me that is the sign of a good coach. I feel as though some coaches are soooo stubborn they have one set philosophy and won't change no matter the talent or situation

#ILikePike

 

[Scarlet Blind]

Another key will be guys can go full out on offense and defense and not worry about foul trouble or be hesitant, because the drop off at any position won't be much with such good depth.

 

[JERSEYROOTS]

If we can eliminate the 4-8min stretches where we go without scoring, and if we can make the 2-footers, I think we see significant improvement in our W-L record. I'm hopeful this team can do that.

 

[dkostus]

If we can eliminate the 4-8min stretches where we go without scoring, and if we can make the 2-footers, I think we see significant improvement in our W-L record. I'm hopeful this team can do that.

So brutal watching multiple point blank misses in a row last year almost every single game.

 

[Scangg]

If we can eliminate the 4-8min stretches where we go without scoring, and if we can make the 2-footers, I think we see significant improvement in our W-L record. I'm hopeful this team can do that.

The scoring droughts were brutal at times. Especially as a former 3 point shooter myself. Tough to watch

 

[RUJMM78]

If we can eliminate the 4-8min stretches where we go without scoring, and if we can make the 2-footers, I think we see significant improvement in our W-L record. I'm hopeful this team can do that.

The team averaged only 60 points a game against B1G competition which clearly wasn't enough to win league games.

 

[JERSEYROOTS]

The team averaged only 60 points a game against B1G competition which clearly wasn't enough to win league games.

Agreed.. but in fairness to the team.. they forced teams to play our game quite often and I think eliminating scoring droughts and cleaning up at the basket helps to win a few close games like we saw last year... including against Mich St. and Purdue.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

I want to run and I want to press and I want my guys to have a lot of freedom on the offensive end but we play tough gritty defense on the defensive end."

I think we saw that the past 2 years with the exception of pressing (depth!). I can see us 10-15 possession per game (maybe off of FT makes) going some type of full court defense designed to turnover and not just shorten the shot clock

You have to be Really really good to make a press work for 40 minutes

If you can press, like you suggest, it’s somethkng that can change a game with one 8-2 run, or change the tempo of the game back in your favor when the tempo isn’t what is wanted

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

You have to be Really really good to make a press work for 40 minutes

If you can press, like you suggest, it’s somethkng that can change a game with one 8-2 run, or change the tempo of the game back in your favor when the tempo isn’t what is wanted

Imo, The key thing about a press is that you throw it on at the right time...maybe when your opponent has a short bench or when you sense they have questionable ballhandlers or when they are getting tired. You also press good half court offenses to eat clock and throw them off their rhythm... Like against Michigan.

Right now, West Virginia does it about as good as it gets in college basketball. They gave Villanova a rough time in the tourney and almost got them.

 

[blockm2]

I want to run and I want to press and I want my guys to have a lot of freedom on the offensive end but we play tough gritty defense on the defensive end."

Pikiell's adjusted tempo rankings nationally from the KenPom database from 2006-2018...

211, 219, 280, 273, 217, 305, 315, 244, 193, 186, 228, 267, 281

The last 2 bolded are at Rutgers. Doesn't seem like he wants to push the tempo much, or at least he hasn't thus far in his career. Then again, a lot of tempo is more perception than anything else. For some reason commentators still think John Beilein's teams like to get out and run when in truth they are always one of the slowest teams in the country.

 

[Scangg]

I want to run and I want to press and I want my guys to have a lot of freedom on the offensive end but we play tough gritty defense on the defensive end."

Pikiell's adjusted tempo rankings nationally from the KenPom database from 2006-2018...

211, 219, 280, 273, 217, 305, 315, 244, 193, 186, 228, 267, 281

The last 2 bolded are at Rutgers. Doesn't seem like he wants to push the tempo much, or at least he hasn't thus far in his career. Then again, a lot of tempo is more perception than anything else. For some reason commentators still think John Beilein's teams like to get out and run when in truth they are always one of the slowest teams in the country.

Good stats. Appreciate the analysis. Another thought could be that the type of athlete he can get at a B1G school is at another level and that changes the style of play he wants to implement. He just hasn't had the time to get the players he needs in to run it. Did he say the same thing at Stony Brook?

 

[blockm2]

Good stats. Appreciate the analysis. Another thought could be that the type of athlete he can get at a B1G school is at another level and that changes the style of play he wants to implement. He just hasn't had the time to get the players he needs in to run it. Did he say the same thing at Stony Brook?

I have no idea. I suspect, however, at Stony Brook he had better athletes than his conference opponents for the most part.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Pikiell's adjusted tempo rankings nationally from the KenPom database from 2006-2018...

211, 219, 280, 273, 217, 305, 315, 244, 193, 186, 228, 267, 281

The last 2 bolded are at Rutgers. Doesn't seem like he wants to push the tempo much, or at least he hasn't thus far in his career. . . . .

And, so, there goes that. Press conference quotes are one thing, and sometimes reality can be another. Nice find.

Regardless, what RU needs isn't complicated. Pikiell had the team defending and rebounding at a high level, some of the best in the country. It'd be great if that keeps up. Yet the team was at or near the bottom of all shooting/scoring categories. That results in something like 3-4 league wins. So, quite simply, RU needs to score more. That happens with scorers who are coached up. This year, or the next, or the next, Pikiell will, we hope, have that too. Then we won't be complaining about 2-foot misses and scoring droughts. And then RU will win.

 

[RUChoppin]

Pikiell's adjusted tempo rankings nationally from the KenPom database from 2006-2018...

211, 219, 280, 273, 217, 305, 315, 244, 193, 186, 228, 267, 281

The last 2 bolded are at Rutgers. Doesn't seem like he wants to push the tempo much, or at least he hasn't thus far in his career. Then again, a lot of tempo is more perception than anything else. For some reason commentators still think John Beilein's teams like to get out and run when in truth they are always one of the slowest teams in the country.

How much of adjusted tempo is forcing other teams to use more of the shot clock? I'd imagine teams with tough defenses have lower tempos. Only 1 of the Top 10 in AdjD had an AdjT ranked better than 234. Only 5 of the Top 30 in AdjD are in the Top 150 in AdjT.

 

[blockm2]

How much of adjusted tempo is forcing other teams to use more of the shot clock? I'd imagine teams with tough defenses have lower tempos. Only 1 of the Top 10 in AdjD had an AdjT ranked better than 234. Only 5 of the Top 30 in AdjD are in the Top 150 in AdjT.

some of it. Last season Rutgers ranked 261st nationally in average length of offensive possession and 290th in average length of defensive possession, though the differences are microscopic. 2010 and 2014 Stony Brook teams were the only ones of Pikiell's tenure (though KenPom only breaks tempo down between offense and defense since 2010) that were significantly faster on offense than defense. 2010 team ranked 99th in offensive possession length and 318th in defensive possession length and 2014 team ranked 142nd in offensive possession length and 293rd in defensive possession length.

Honestly, though, the 99th ranked tempo and 142nd ranked tempo are on the flat part of the curve so to say where the differences are relatively small compared to the truly fast teams at the top. For example, Pikiell's fastest offense in 2010 had an average possession length of 17.0 seconds. #1 ranked VMI was at 13.0 seconds, #10 Navy was at 15.2 seconds, #50 Lipscomb was at 16.5 seconds, #150 Elon was at 17.6 seconds, and #200 SIU Edwardsville was at 18.0 seconds.

This past season the fastest major conference team on offense was Oklahoma (#2 nationally) who averaged 14.0 seconds per possession. The fastest Big Ten team was Iowa (#34 nationally) at 15.9 seconds per possession and the next fastest was Purdue (#79) at 16.6. The overwhelming majority of the country plays at roughly similar paces, with only a small number of outliers on the fast and slow side. Virginia has ranked dead last 2 years running and Wisconsin has been bottom 10 every season but once.

 

[RUChoppin]

some of it. Last season Rutgers ranked 261st nationally in average length of offensive possession and 290th in average length of defensive possession, though the differences are microscopic. 2010 and 2014 Stony Brook teams were the only ones of Pikiell's tenure (though KenPom only breaks tempo down between offense and defense since 2010) that were significantly faster on offense than defense. 2010 team ranked 99th in offensive possession length and 318th in defensive possession length and 2014 team ranked 142nd in offensive possession length and 293rd in defensive possession length.

Honestly, though, the 99th ranked tempo and 142nd ranked tempo are on the flat part of the curve so to say where the differences are relatively small compared to the truly fast teams at the top. For example, Pikiell's fastest offense in 2010 had an average possession length of 17.0 seconds. #1 ranked VMI was at 13.0 seconds, #10 Navy was at 15.2 seconds, #50 Lipscomb was at 16.5 seconds, #150 Elon was at 17.6 seconds, and #200 SIU Edwardsville was at 18.0 seconds.

This past season the fastest major conference team on offense was Oklahoma (#2 nationally) who averaged 14.0 seconds per possession. The fastest Big Ten team was Iowa (#34 nationally) at 15.9 seconds per possession and the next fastest was Purdue (#79) at 16.6. The overwhelming majority of the country plays at roughly similar paces, with only a small number of outliers on the fast and slow side. Virginia has ranked dead last 2 years running and Wisconsin has been bottom 10 every season but once.

Thank you - that was great context.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

some of it. Last season Rutgers ranked 261st nationally in average length of offensive possession and 290th in average length of defensive possession, though the differences are microscopic. 2010 and 2014 Stony Brook teams were the only ones of Pikiell's tenure (though KenPom only breaks tempo down between offense and defense since 2010) that were significantly faster on offense than defense. 2010 team ranked 99th in offensive possession length and 318th in defensive possession length and 2014 team ranked 142nd in offensive possession length and 293rd in defensive possession length.

Honestly, though, the 99th ranked tempo and 142nd ranked tempo are on the flat part of the curve so to say where the differences are relatively small compared to the truly fast teams at the top. For example, Pikiell's fastest offense in 2010 had an average possession length of 17.0 seconds. #1 ranked VMI was at 13.0 seconds, #10 Navy was at 15.2 seconds, #50 Lipscomb was at 16.5 seconds, #150 Elon was at 17.6 seconds, and #200 SIU Edwardsville was at 18.0 seconds.

This past season the fastest major conference team on offense was Oklahoma (#2 nationally) who averaged 14.0 seconds per possession. The fastest Big Ten team was Iowa (#34 nationally) at 15.9 seconds per possession and the next fastest was Purdue (#79) at 16.6. The overwhelming majority of the country plays at roughly similar paces, with only a small number of outliers on the fast and slow side. Virginia has ranked dead last 2 years running and Wisconsin has been bottom 10 every season but once.

I believe kenpom gathers all info from box scores. i have always wondered how they get the time of possession broken down to offense and defense. I know tempo isn't the actual amount of possessions, it is a good guess by taking FG misses - OREB + turnovers + some % of missed FTs.

 

[blockm2]

I believe kenpom gathers all info from box scores. i have always wondered how they get the time of possession broken down to offense and defense. I know tempo isn't the actual amount of possessions, it is a good guess by taking FG misses - OREB + turnovers + some % of missed FTs.

I believe time of possession for offense and defense is from play by play feeds that have game clock times listed for each event. For example if you go to ESPN's box score for a game there is a link for play-by-play and it is a running commentary of each event in the game along with the time left on the game clock for each.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I believe time of possession for offense and defense is from play by play feeds that have game clock times listed for each event. For example if you go to ESPN's box score for a game there is a link for play-by-play and it is a running commentary of each event in the game along with the time left on the game clock for each.

that would make them accurate

 

[mikefla]

Mildly?

I mean, setting aside we lost Sanders, the OVERALL DEPTH on the team this year will be MARKEDLY better than last year.

Last year, we basically had three guards (Sanders, Baker, and Williams), and our guard "depth" consisted of, ugh, Souf Mensah and walkon Jake Dadika. This year, we will have Baker, McConnell, Kiss, Mathis, and probably a grad transfer at the guard spots. This year gets the clear nod in terms of depth (while again recognizing that we lost our "best" guard from last year).

Last year, we had one WF (Thiam), but had to use undersized Williams, skinny Baker, and, when injuries hit, Bullock at the WF spot. This year it will be Thiam, Harper, and Kiss/Mathis. This year gets the clear nod again in terms of depth.

Last year, we had five "bigs" (Freeman, Sa, Omoruyi, Doucoure and Doorson). This year, we will also have five bigs (Omoruyi, Doucoure, Doorson, Carter, and Johnson). So let's call that a push, although I believe this year's bigs will have more skill than last year's bigs.

Seeing as weve never seen Kiss, Mathis, Carter, McConnel or Harper so much as make a hoop, throw a pass or gather in a rebound yet
I chose the word mildly
When all the dust settles..and coach P does this thing
I actually fully expect we will have better depth this year