With sanders leaving ..roster impsct and development and recruiting
- Thread starter Scarlet Shack
- Start date
They will help for sure but will they bridge the gap. I guess we will see. For a poor shooting team, rebounding is life blood.
If Shaq Doorson, Mamadou Doucoure and Issa Thiam rebound a little better than they did last year, I think Rutgers will rebound well this year.
Chartouny is very good defensively. He would help Rutgers a lot at Point Guard this season if Rutgers can get him. He is a good student too.
Why we keep speaking about losing Tai Strickland ( we never had him) is plain silly. We lose Corey , Williams, Souf , Matt , Freeman, Sa and IMHO only 3 of those players actually bring value.Need two guards who can shoot the 3 and be interchangeable parts. How we get them I don’t care just get them.Another BIG grad transfer or Juco would also be icing on the cake. Others find them and coach Pikiell needs to as well.
Earl Duncan was effective because he could pull up shoot (and most importantly MAKE) the 3 AND he was big and strong enough to score inside .
we have tons of PGs since him who had good handles and who were not good shooters or scorers. I don't want to name names but theres a bunch.
Having a "true" point is overrated. Get guards who have a good handle and who can score.
If by "plenty of depth off the ball" you are implying that we use one of the scholarships for a primary ball handler, then I'd agree with you. Right now, though, we have Baker/Mathis/Kiss being looked at as our trio at the 1/2, with Thiam/Harper being looked at more at the 3/4, and five players at the 4/5. We desperately need someone to help carry the load at the two main guard spots - because we saw what happens when you only have three guards and lose one (Williams).
We were paper thin at guard last year with Sanders/Baker/Williams. We're losing two of them (upperclassmen), and replacing with Mathis/Kiss (underclassmen).... which would make us both paper thin and young at guard. We'd be (again) hoping none of them got hurt or in foul trouble, and depth would be an issue.
Forget about Strickland at this point - would have been a good get to help fill the need for more guards, but he's gone. We now need to find another guard who can come in and carry the load. I'd be leaning toward a mid-major grad transfer, personally, who can plug a hole for a year and let us use that scholarship in 2019 (for Mulcahy perhaps?)
No, I'm assuming nothing until the staff SHOWS that they can recruit better. Because they haven't shown me they can. You are making these assumptions and stating them as stone cold fact and painting a rosy picture as always. We won 3 conference games again this year after losing Gettys, Nigel, and Laurent so don't tell me we filled those spots with blue chippers who contributed to winning because we didn't. We need MUCH BETTER players and this staff hasn't shown it can bring them in. SHOW ME. I have very little confidence that this staff is going to be able to fill one open spot with a difference maker at the guard spot at this late date in the recruiting calendar much less find two additional high level players needed to compete in the Big Ten.
Here is my take regarding the positions that the five players you mentioned will be best suited for in 2018-19,
if winning in the B1G is the goal:
Best Position First & Worst position last:
Baker 2, 1, 3
Mathis 2, 3, 1
Kiss 2, 3
Thiam 3, 4, 2
Harper 3, 2, 4
The inability to recruit power level talent on a consistent basis has been the downfall of previous Rutgers coaching staffs because they simply couldn't overcome negative recruiting based on the won.loss record for decades.
Thank you. The same people who for weeks were saying, "oh no, Corey isn't leaving. He should stay anyway. And if he does go, we're screwed" are now posting how screwed we are. We are going to be a better team without Corey. Pike will fill the roster...I don't doubt his tenacity with recruiting so far. He'll keep improving the roster and will develop players to the best of their talents within a system that will win. Corey wasn't the right kind of player for that system. Now the program can move forward. New leaders that need to emerge without Corey can take over the team. The spots will get filled nicely
So, assuming Thiam/Harper take up 20 minutes together at the 4.... that gives 140 min to 5 players, for an average of 28 min each.... and no room for injury/illness/foul trouble. Lose one player, and that's 4 players for 140 min, which works out to a 35 min avg.
It also leaves five other players to scramble for 60 min at the 4/5... assuming Omoruyi continues to play 25 min, that'd be 35 min for 4 guys (Carter, Doorson, Johnson, Doucoure)
Our roster just isn't constructed to support a guard-heavy offense right now (though it could be if the other three ships went to strong guards). Thinking of going guard heavy right now is like when Drew Mehringer came in wanting us to go 4 and 5 wide every play when we had no depth at WR.
thinking more like 15-20 MPG.
Baker 30 Back up PG 10
mathis 28 kiss 12
issa 15 kiss 14 harper 11
Eugene 25 Issa 15
Centers 40
Exactly ...if I ever hear the word that we are signing a “facilitator”, i am going to barf
The term I want to hear is “scoring point guard”
I never said a 5 star was required, you did. However, these kids don't always have solid rebounding skills (as most focus on scoring) and it takes quite a bit of discipline to be good at it. I will be very surprised if we are at the same level next year. My bet is no. Like I said, we will see.
I didn’t say you did..,I was simply, and quite obviously I thought, making a point to counter the negativity...relax buddy.
There's nothing good about our most talented player leaving and not staying for his senior year. Most of us were hoping that Corey and Strickland would be playing together next year. Now neither one will be here. There's no guarantee we will fill our guard positions with good players who will adequately replace Corey. To state otherwise is wishful thinking. Hopefully our staff is able to bring in the point guard talent to help our team. But time is ticking.
Fordham kid sounds like hed be a nice plug in the interim.
SEASON TEAM MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
2017-18 FOR 35.9 3.9-10.6 .371 1.4-4.9 .284 2.9-4.2 .697 5.6 4.6 0.3 3.3 2.4 2.4 12.2
2016-17 FOR 33.1 4.1-9.8 .415 1.8-4.7 .382 2.2-2.9 .759 4.1 5.0 0.1 3.2 2.4 2.9 12.1
2015-16 FOR 32.6 3.2-8.7 .370 1.3-4.2 .315 3.5-4.6 .765 5.3 6.2 0.2 2.2 2.3 2.9 11.3
Decent split sans the 3. But hey hopefully thiam, harper, mathis, kiss, geo will supplement that and the hopes of hyatt
SEASON TEAM MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
2017-18 FOR 35.9 3.9-10.6 .371 1.4-4.9 .284 2.9-4.2 .697 5.6 4.6 0.3 3.3 2.4 2.4 12.2
2016-17 FOR 33.1 4.1-9.8 .415 1.8-4.7 .382 2.2-2.9 .759 4.1 5.0 0.1 3.2 2.4 2.9 12.1
2015-16 FOR 32.6 3.2-8.7 .370 1.3-4.2 .315 3.5-4.6 .765 5.3 6.2 0.2 2.2 2.3 2.9 11.3
Decent split sans the 3. But hey hopefully thiam, harper, mathis, kiss, geo will supplement that and the hopes of hyatt
So....
Baker 30
Thiam 30
Mathis 28
Eugene 25
Kiss 24
Harper 11
TBD PG 10
...
Then 40 among Carter, Doucoure, Johnson, Doorson.
Which requires us to use one of the open scholarships on a PG that is > Mensah/Dadika - otherwise Baker and Mathis have to take on an additional 10 min.
Hopefully we pick up a grad transfer PG who can provide 15 min and a reclassified Aundre Hyatt and we won't be so thin on the ground at guard.
You are a funny bird. You obviously can't tell the difference between analysis and negativity - lol. I am quite relaxed but you seem to have gotten disturbed some. Have a Holiday drink and enjoy the Easter Weekend. None of this message board stuff really matters - lol.
I am fine with fans that are able to be critical BUT 99.9% of the time, the critics offers no solutions or alternatives OR rarely has enough information to show what other path towards "winning" actually entails....instead it's a bunch of empty cliches and comments that are general in nature.....case in point is saying a recruit is a "loss", when nobody here ever knew who the player was 2 months ago....
Getting a 2/3 would end players getting default minutes. Can we find a player that would reduce the minutes of any of our players? Do we want that unless they are a big upgrade? And then injuries
Depth is critical, and the lack of it was crushing at times this year. We have no idea how ready Mathis, Harper, or Kiss will be to carry that many minutes - and there's no way to know who will stay healthy throughout the year. We need two more guards in the three scholarships we have. Don't necessarily need to use all three for this season, but we need two players who can play the 1/2 spots, and be relied upon to give productive minutes - be they a PG and a combo guard, a combo and a 2/3, or whatever.
I'm leaning toward a grad PG or combo, if we can get one. Instant composure in the back court to help settle what will be an all-underclassman unit otherwise.
NO!
I'd rather have 2s and 3s and 4s that put the ball in the basket and the 1 who distributes, but has to be an option from deep.
It would be very difficult for Geo Baker to remain competitive for 30 minutes a game at PG in the B1G this year, even if he is fortunate enough to remain healthy.
If Geo gets dinged the lack of PG's on the roster would complicate things even more this year.
When all players at the 3 small positions are healthy:
PG = New PG #1 24, Baker 12, New PG #2 4
SG = Baker 12, Mathis 24, Kiss 4
SF = Thiam 20+, Kiss 14+, Harper (6 or RS)
When Geo can't go:
PG = New PG #1 30, New PG #2 10
SG = Mathis 30, Kiss 10
SF = Thiam 20+, Kiss 10+, Harper (10 or RS)
I don’t understand why most here are not expecting more out of Kiss. He is not an unknown quantity having averaged over 13 a game as a freshman
I think he is an instant impact guy
Issa will continue to grow as a player
He has the tools to be very good
How many 6’10” guys have you seen with the quickness to guard little guys on the perimeter like him ?
That tells me that he has the quickness to create his own shot. As that starts to happen consistently, he will explode as a player
Cory had to be the focus to be effective in general but when he played more of a complimentary role,(Iowa first half)
The team was much better
Freeman was a stat producer but we will be much better as a team without him
He disrupted the flow of the offense and did not play within his own capabilities way to often
Another player to help at the point is the priority right now
We have Johnson, Doorson, Duke, Carter at the 4 and 5
Issa , kiss , Mathis , Harper and Eugene at
2-3
Point is where the problem is until we add
We have tremendous flexibility
In kiss, Issa Eugene and possibly Harper
Duke,Issa , Eugene, Doorson, and Geo will all get better with another year
I am optimistic
I think he is an instant impact guy
Issa will continue to grow as a player
He has the tools to be very good
How many 6’10” guys have you seen with the quickness to guard little guys on the perimeter like him ?
That tells me that he has the quickness to create his own shot. As that starts to happen consistently, he will explode as a player
Cory had to be the focus to be effective in general but when he played more of a complimentary role,(Iowa first half)
The team was much better
Freeman was a stat producer but we will be much better as a team without him
He disrupted the flow of the offense and did not play within his own capabilities way to often
Another player to help at the point is the priority right now
We have Johnson, Doorson, Duke, Carter at the 4 and 5
Issa , kiss , Mathis , Harper and Eugene at
2-3
Point is where the problem is until we add
We have tremendous flexibility
In kiss, Issa Eugene and possibly Harper
Duke,Issa , Eugene, Doorson, and Geo will all get better with another year
I am optimistic
Omoruyi doesn't really have the skill set to play the 3.
He's a 4 in my opinion. Rutgers will need players who can shoot from the outside at the 3.
When all players at the 5 positions are healthy:
PG = New PG #1 24, Baker 12, New PG #2 4
SG = Baker 12, Mathis 24, Kiss 4
SF = Thiam 20+, Kiss 14+, Harper (6 or RS)
PF = Omoruyi 20, Doucoure 6, Carter 14
C = Johnson 20, Doucoure, 8, Doorson 12
The minutes might look low for many of these players.
But, once a few players can't play for whatever reason
the minutes of the others increase substantially.
Frequently, a player or two will miss most of the season due to a season ending injury. It is always good to have a surplus of ball handlers in the event that your primary ball handlers can't play.
In D1 Basketball, the PG is often the most important position on the court. Sanders & Strickland would have taken Rutgers to the NCAA Tournament barring injuries.
I'm confident that Coach Pikiell will add two PG's to the roster soon and it is likely that one will be a graduate transfer.
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Geo will play more than 24 minutes per game. To average 24 you are saying for many games he will only play half the game. Not happening.
When you plan on 24 minutes for a player when everyone is healthy, that player often ends up playing 30.
When you plan on 30 minutes for a player even when everyone is healthy, you will often have too many players sitting on the bench.
When healthy, Geo will always get his 24 minutes. When other Guards can't go, Geo will get more.
The 24 minutes for Geo was based on
New PG#1
Mathis
Kiss
and
New PG#2
all being healthy for every game.
There will be many games when one or even two of those 4 Guards can't play. When they can't play, Geo's minutes increase. With this plan, Geo will average about 30 minutes per game, if he is healthy, which is close to the number of minutes Geo played this past year.
All-American PG Jalen Brunson only played 31 minutes a game this past year and he was healthy all year.
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The minutes distributed depends on whether the newcomer is better than Kiss...i think Kiss outplays Issa as the 3 in the OOC games and Baker and Mathis are the starters. The 4th guard or 3rd guard has to be better than Kiss as Mathis back up and ideally is not a PG, but a CG that provides overlap/depth.
The Thiam vs Kiss battle at the 3 should be interesting.
I'm hoping that Thiam will develop into a stronger, more confident and better player this year.
IMHO, Peter Kiss best position is at the 2.
But, that is also Baker's best position and Mathis best position.
Rutgers has plenty of off the ball Guards so additional depth at the 2 isn't really needed at all. Mathis and Kiss are good 2 Guards and Geo played well off the ball last year. Rutgers strongest position might be the 2, if Coach Pikeill can find his PG's.
PS
Harper and Thiam can also play the 2, if needed.
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