American Pharoah 1-5 favorite for tomorrow's Haskell Invitational

[Knight_Light]

Never been to Monmouth Park? When I walk in this place it is like Fenway Park or Wrigley Field. A classic race racetrack and the Haskell is always #4 after the Triple. /QUOTE]

Haskell is a big race for Monmouth (biggest) but there are plenty of other races throughout the year like Travers Stakes (and others at Saratoga), multiple races in the Breeders Cup, plus even Derby prep races like Santa Anita Derby.

I don't think anyone in the country thinks the Haskell is the 4th best annual race.

 

[vkj91]

You do realize that a pony is not the correct term right?

No and if I did I probably would have known the answer to my question.

 

[wheezer]

A huge crowd and handle at Monmouth Park, probably decent ratings on TV, positive publicity for horse racing at a time of year when people usually don't pay attention to it, and a little change in the bank for AP's owners. Maybe it's not that much for AP's owners, but they also are people who've said they want to give back to racing.

-------
Most importantly I am sure the owners of pharaoh were very happy that they did this, and we heard quotes like "this was for you, New Jersey".......so much so that Monmouth track is thinking of putting together another million dollar race in the fall.....

But if I were to guess, I doubt that We see the Pharoah again.

 

[Knight_Light]

But if I were to guess, I doubt that We see the Pharoah again.

American Pharoah is already basically committed to run in the Breeder's Cup Classic on Halloween at Keeneland.

The only question that was asked in post-race interviews was where AP might run, if he runs, prior to the Breeder's Cup.

Some options are:

End of August at Travers Stakes-Saratoga

Mid Sept PA Derby-Philly

Newly pledged $1 Million race at Monmouth in Sept

Travers would easily be the toughest race...something Baffert really doesn't want to do.

But yes, AP will run on Halloween (baring injury), only question is...will he run before that.

 

[wheezer]

American Pharoah is already basically committed to run in the Breeder's Cup Classic on Halloween at Keeneland.

The only question that was asked in post-race interviews was where AP might run, if he runs, prior to the Breeder's Cup.

Some options are:

End of August at Travers Stakes-Saratoga

Mid Sept PA Derby-Philly

Newly pledged $1 Million race at Monmouth in Sept

Travers would easily be the toughest race...something Baffert really doesn't want to do.

But yes, AP will run on Halloween (baring injury), only question is...will he run before that.

--------
My thoughts were for a return to NJ, not racing elsewhere..... Would not be shocked if he runs else where

 

[RUaMoose]

My horse, MrJordan just crossed the finish line. He was in the hunt at a 1/2 mile, then faded like a fart in the wind

 

[RU at the shore]

Maybe a little strong, the Haskell certainly belongs in the company of several others as vying for title of the 4th best race for 3 years old horses

 

[RU at the shore]

It was my 29th straight Haskell and this one was a lot of fun. Big crowd for sure, but not the gridlock inducing Armageddon that the media was putting out pre-race. I had several usual attendees bail due to fear over the massive crowd/traffic/etc. Weather was perfect and the right horse won. Too bad I couldn't pick em at all yesterday. Thanks Bob Baffert , hero to Monmouth Park

 

[RU at the shore]

101.5 said the crowd was more like 35-40K

No chance it was that low. But I'm equally sure that there were not 60 k in the building. Due to the popularity of the annual Haskell hat giveaway, there is always a large contingent of "spinners", who go in and get the hat, then immediately leave and I am sure that some individuals bought several admission tickets (a bargain at $6) to get several free hats . Crowded throughout the day, but really packed for the big race.

 

[RU31trap]

One other Haskell sticks out in my mind. In 1998 Coronado's Quest beat Victory Gallop. Monmouth was packed that day.

 

[RU Husky]

My favorite in person Haskell was in 1987 when Bet Twice , who had won the Belmont to deny Alysheba the Triple Crown, again beat Alysheba to win at Monmouth.

In response to earlier post, the Haskell is big in NJ, but no way is it viewed the same way nationally. Having the Triple Crown winner race there this year certainly elevated the race's significance. I think the Travers has always been viewed as a bigger race for 3 year olds than the Haskell and if AP runs there later this summer, that race will again eclipse the Haskell- and it should be a better race.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

My favorite in person Haskell was in 1987 when Bet Twice , who had won the Belmont to deny Alysheba the Triple Crown, again beat Alysheba to win at Monmouth.

In response to earlier post, the Haskell is big in NJ, but no way is it viewed the same way nationally. Having the Triple Crown winner race there this year certainly elevated the race's significance. I think the Travers has always been viewed as a bigger race for 3 year olds than the Haskell and if AP runs there later this summer, that race will again eclipse the Haskell- and it should be a better race.

I attended yesterday's race as well. I've been attending horse races for more than 30 years. I've seen numerous great horses in action... but, without question, American Pharoah is the best. He is a joy to watch. He has the heart of a champion and shows it every time he steps on the track.

Indeed, the 1987 Haskell was the best. I went to the Belmont that year as well. I fell in love with the Alysheba/Bet Twice rivalry so I went up to Saratoga in '87 to see them battle, too. Unfortunately, the Travers was run in the mud. Java Gold won in the slop. Bet Twice and Alysheba ran poorly, finishing fifth and sixth, respectively.






http://www.app.com/story/sports/hor...aroah-monmouth-park-greatest-horses/30954557/

 

[billhobo]

No chance it was that low. But I'm equally sure that there were not 60 k in the building. Due to the popularity of the annual Haskell hat giveaway, there is always a large contingent of "spinners", who go in and get the hat, then immediately leave and I am sure that some individuals bought several admission tickets (a bargain at $6) to get several free hats . Crowded throughout the day, but really packed for the big race.

Good job pointing this out, as I know people who did this and others who came for the early card and split for the day.

As for traffic Armageddon, I got there early (930) and no traffic whatsoever, and (for once) I'll credit management for proactive traffic warnings in advance; most of my family (and many others) took the train -- drove to Middletown or Red Bank; great deal too as for $5-$7 you got R/T train, grandstand admission and a program. The outflow was good, at least through Little Silver and home to Tinton Falls.

Absolutely a once-in-a-lifetime athlete. Glad to have been there to witness him run in person. I doubt he'll return to Monmouth unless they can somehow put a more-credible field together, and they're not getting 60,000 paid attendance in September once NFL starts. Monmouth's dead in the early fall; and after supposedly cutting purses last year after the Haskell I'm figuring maybe this year the local connections feel they're owed one from yesterday's probably windfall to sustain the state/local racing program.

IMO, Pharoah's not going to race in the Travers and or at Del Mar. Considering he stabled at Churchill during TC season and to recover, I'm not sure why they'd send him anywhere but Kentucky at this point, considering the Breeders Cup at Keeneland. The wildcard, and again this is an educated guess, is Churchill in a made-for-primetime event, will come up with a big-money stakes race for the "Downs After Dark" card on Saturday, Sept. 19. NBC's got Notre Dame-Georgia Tech at 3:30 p.m. and could keep eyeballs on the network w/a Pharoah-type show after ND that I expect would out-rate any other game on TV that night. It fits well in the horse's race schedule, it's a track he knows, and I see no legitimate reason why Zayat would be interested in running such a champion at PARX in September when, if Churchill does it right, could probably compensate Zayat & Co. as much in a better setting. For my money, keep an eye on Churchill.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

IMO, Pharoah's not going to race in the Travers and or at Del Mar. Considering he stabled at Churchill during TC season and to recover, I'm not sure why they'd send him anywhere but Kentucky at this point, considering the Breeders Cup at Keeneland. The wildcard, and again this is an educated guess, is Churchill in a made-for-primetime event, will come up with a big-money stakes race for the "Downs After Dark" card on Saturday, Sept. 19. NBC's got Notre Dame-Georgia Tech at 3:30 p.m. and could keep eyeballs on the network w/a Pharoah-type show after ND that I expect would out-rate any other game on TV that night. It fits well in the horse's race schedule, it's a track he knows, and I see no legitimate reason why Zayat would be interested in running such a champion at PARX in September when, if Churchill does it right, could probably compensate Zayat & Co. as much in a better setting. For my money, keep an eye on Churchill.

Indeed, I'd be shocked if AP runs in the Travers. Baffert has Saratoga nightmares. It's known as the Graveyard of Champions for a reason. Baffert is a superstitious man. He wants no part of "the August place to be."

 

[billhobo]

Huge paydays aside, I do think ownership wants to share Pharoah with the public, so I could see more of a "prime-time" or a made-for-TV event coming together that's not at 5:30 p.m. on a late-August Saturday. No offense to Saratoga (I'm headed there later this week and it's probably 1 of my favorite places on Earth), but a Travers win proves nothing for this horse, much as the Haskell didn't; that was Zayat's gift to Monmouth and NJ as a local guy. EVERYONE will be gunning for Pharoah on Oct. 31 in the Breeders Cup Classic. Until then, it's about keeping the horse healthy and in good form. And Churchill's a major publicly-traded entity with a big marketing machine unlike Monmouth; not to mention that NBC as the Breeders Cup network could use such a race to plug the hell out of the BC. I think that's a possibility, albeit I'm connected to no one to make such statement; merely speculative.

 

[RU Husky]

Should such a "created" prime time event be open to older horses? If it's limited to 3 year olds , then it's an admission that AP ducked the Travers (some champ he is). If its open to older horses, who gets invited without stealing thunder from the BC. I agree that Baffert has his likes and dislikes in racetracks- include Saratoga amongst the dislikes (his Bayern and Coil got beat badly in the Travers and Point Given was injured when racing there).

I disagree that a win in the Travers means nothing, especially if the newly rejuvenated Texas Red (who missed the Triple Crown races) and Frosted run .AP beat Texas Red in a meeting as 2 year olds, but AP didn't run in the BC Juvenile which was won by Texas Red. IMO, it would be good if they met before the BC Classic, but Zayat and Baffert will probably see it differently.

 

[WhiteBus]

Great day for horse fans, Monmouth Park, NJ. Beer and cigar lovers too!

 

[RU1993]

Was at the race yesterday. When you bet a race the horses number and name was printed on the ticket, first time I have ever seen that. Most be for the people betting $2 tickets to keep

 

[WhiteBus]

My two favorite post race moments was this "victory lap" to give the crowd another look at this great champion and the whole track loudly booing Christie! Why was he even there. If it was up to him the track would be closed!

 

[RU Husky]

My two favorite post race moments was this "victory lap" to give the crowd another look at this great champion and the whole track loudly booing Christie! Why was he even there. If it was up to him the track would be closed!

It's pretty sad that racing at Monmouth is down to basically 3 racing days a week (Fri-Sun) . Bigger race cards and larger fields are nice, but for those cloudy Wednesdays down the shore, Monmouth was always a great alternative.

 

[WhiteBus]

It's pretty sad that racing at Monmouth is down to basically 3 racing days a week (Fri-Sun) . Bigger race cards and larger fields are nice, but for those cloudy Wednesdays down the shore, Monmouth was always a great alternative.

Agree.
I normally work all weekend. Sunday all day so it took a lot of schedule juggling to get yesterday off. Most people in the beer liquor business have off on Wednesday. We used to be at the track every Wednesday in the picnic area under the trees. Now have to wait for Saratoga for a weekday track event

 

[bac2therac]

It's pretty sad that racing at Monmouth is down to basically 3 racing days a week (Fri-Sun) . Bigger race cards and larger fields are nice, but for those cloudy Wednesdays down the shore, Monmouth was always a great alternative.

you can blame the ignorant and asinine NJ politicians for this and the possible end of both the thoroughbred and harness horse industries for this. Christie and Sweeney currently to blame for allowing PA and NY to steal millions of gaming revenue away from NJ by not allowing a racino...this is going back 10 years. NJ politicians dropped the ball as PA and NY stole the horse industry away because of trying to protect AC. Even now the process to get a casino is slow all the while other states are reaping the benefits and laughing and NJ's ineptitude

Christie Whitman wanted a casino at the Big M while she was in office and it was shot down by SJ democrats...if only NJ led the way instead of being 10-15 years behind the curve. Meadowlands races just two days a week for harness. It was the harness mecca...Showplace farms in Monmouth County is closing...such a sad day. Monmouth is feeing the effects as well. Its ridiculous how the horse industry was allowed to wither on the vine to protect a decaying and dying AC

 

[RU Husky]

you can blame the ignorant and asinine NJ politicians for this and the possible end of both the thoroughbred and harness horse industries for this. Christie and Sweeney currently to blame for allowing PA and NY to steal millions of gaming revenue away from NJ by not allowing a racino...this is going back 10 years. NJ politicians dropped the ball as PA and NY stole the horse industry away because of trying to protect AC. Even now the process to get a casino is slow all the while other states are reaping the benefits and laughing and NJ's ineptitude

Christie Whitman wanted a casino at the Big M while she was in office and it was shot down by SJ democrats...if only NJ led the way instead of being 10-15 years behind the curve. Meadowlands races just two days a week for harness. It was the harness mecca...Showplace farms in Monmouth County is closing...such a sad day. Monmouth is feeing the effects as well. Its ridiculous how the horse industry was allowed to wither on the vine to protect a decaying and dying AC

I was not aware that racing at the Big M is down to 2 days ( nights) a week. Unbelievable. I used to go that often myself! Out here in the Pacific Northwest they have no concept of harness racing so other than watching on TVG I've lost track of the sport. I worked in the Catskills during my summers while at RU and was a regular at Monticello. I trekked out to Westbury to take in the big races at Roosevelt and always loved my visits to Yonkers. Freehold was in my backyard and I loved the daytime racing there, but always felt that most of the races were fixed ( turned out t a lot of them were). I even saw racing on the oval at Johnson Park on the banks. Sad, indeed, what has happened to that industry.

 

[RU Husky]

AP's owner(Zayat) said today that the next race he wants to race AP is the Travers. Hope they (Baffert ) make it happen. A win at the Travers would be a fitting close to the 3 year old season, then it's on to the older horses.

 

[WhiteBus]

AP's owner(Zayat) said today that the next race he wants to race AP is the Travers. Hope they (Baffert ) make it happen. A win at the Travers would be a fitting close to the 3 year old season, then it's on to the older horses.

If Zayat wants to run in the Travers, Baffert will run there. Very simple, make the owner happy. Like the Derby I will quote zappaa ' s dad. No one goes to the Travers anymore. ..it too crowded :)
I've moved my Saratoga trip to early September before Labor Day.

 

[billhobo]

Should such a "created" prime time event be open to older horses? If it's limited to 3 year olds , then it's an admission that AP ducked the Travers (some champ he is). If its open to older horses, who gets invited without stealing thunder from the BC. I agree that Baffert has his likes and dislikes in racetracks- include Saratoga amongst the dislikes (his Bayern and Coil got beat badly in the Travers and Point Given was injured when racing there).

I disagree that a win in the Travers means nothing, especially if the newly rejuvenated Texas Red (who missed the Triple Crown races) and Frosted run .AP beat Texas Red in a meeting as 2 year olds, but AP didn't run in the BC Juvenile which was won by Texas Red. IMO, it would be good if they met before the BC Classic, but Zayat and Baffert will probably see it differently.

I disagree on the ducking part, especially since Pharoah was hand-ridden and crushed Texas Red in the Grade 1 FrontRunner as a 2YO and Frosted wasn't much of a match in head-to-head. I think everyone connected to Saratoga wants Pharoah to run there, but it doesn't fit well at all into his preparation schedule ahead of the Breeders Cup. I'd be fine w/older horses in a prospective CD race in September; I mean, Pharoah's going to face them if he wants to win the Classic, right?

 

[Knight_Light]

you can blame the ignorant and asinine NJ politicians for this and the possible end of both the thoroughbred and harness horse industries for this. Christie and Sweeney currently to blame for allowing PA and NY to steal millions of gaming revenue away from NJ by not allowing a racino...this is going back 10 years. NJ politicians dropped the ball as PA and NY stole the horse industry away because of trying to protect AC. Even now the process to get a casino is slow all the while other states are reaping the benefits and laughing and NJ's ineptitude

Christie Whitman wanted a casino at the Big M while she was in office and it was shot down by SJ democrats...if only NJ led the way instead of being 10-15 years behind the curve. Meadowlands races just two days a week for harness. It was the harness mecca...Showplace farms in Monmouth County is closing...such a sad day. Monmouth is feeing the effects as well. Its ridiculous how the horse industry was allowed to wither on the vine to protect a decaying and dying AC

Monmouth isn't the only race track that is struggling...as many in the country are suffering, as their current customer base is slowly dying off.

One thing many (in TV/Production) are trying to do is to improve the 2 main horse racing TV Networks (TVG and HRTV), both which are terrible (non-HD), in a country where most are watching events/shows on their 50" - 75" HDTVs or on the go with their HD Tablets.

Also, DirecTV only carries one of them (TVG) and just like in the Satelitte Radio World, would be best if those 2 networks could merge...but I don't that will ever happen.

Horse Racing has to advance and move to the digital age...and something Sports Bars could have a major impact (i.e. allow restricted betting live, similar to Arizona), which could help fill-up weekday business (many empty during weekdays)...but it would also help if those Sports Bars could offer every race in HD.

NBC Sports having a cross-sport personality like Eddie Olczyk, helps draw in new viewers and the sport needs more like him.

 

[derleider]

AS a non-horse racing guy - why are these racses limited to certain age groups. Why not just open them to all ages. Wouldnt that increase the chance that you get a horse that the non-horse racing public can follow for multiple years, instead of follow for two or three races an then forget about?

 

[Knight_Light]

AS a non-horse racing guy - why are these racses limited to certain age groups. Why not just open them to all ages. Wouldnt that increase the chance that you get a horse that the non-horse racing public can follow for multiple years, instead of follow for two or three races an then forget about?

Many, I'd say most horse races are open to large age groups (i.e. 3 year olds and up), but there are always some races for maiden races (for those that have not won), claiming races (horses in race are up for sale), allowance races (usually defined by $$ won/earned), etc...

Then of course you have lengths, type of surface (dirt, synthetic or turf), plus purse offered, etc...there are probably scores of different types of races for every single kind of horse.

I'd say most of the age restrictions in place for age for specific races are for 2yr olds and 3 yr olds..

Obviously the Breeder Cup Classic ($5 Million Purse) and generally has the toughest field of any race during the year is open to 3 yr olds and up at the classic distance/surface: 1 1/4 mile on dirt.

 

[Phi_1055]

AS a non-horse racing guy - why are these racses limited to certain age groups. Why not just open them to all ages. Wouldnt that increase the chance that you get a horse that the non-horse racing public can follow for multiple years, instead of follow for two or three races an then forget about?

3 year old thoroughbreds are not physically mature and at high levels, i.e. stakes races, wouldn't stand a chance against older horses in the spring and early summer. By late summer or autumn 3 year olds have nearly caught up to the older horses and can compete against them. In lower level races you'll see 3 year olds racing against older horses but that has more to do with the older competitors not being top level runners.

Casual fans of the sport often only are interested in the Triple Crown races, which are restricted to 3 year olds. Dedicated fans place just as much, or more, importance on races for older horses.

3 year olds, when they race against older horses, usually are assigned less weight to carry to compensate for their lack of physical maturity.

 

[derleider]

Many, I'd say most horse races are open to large age groups (i.e. 3 year olds and up), but there are always some races for maiden races (for those that have not won), claiming races (horses in race are up for sale), allowance races (usually defined by $$ won/earned), etc...

Then of course you have lengths, type of surface (dirt, synthetic or turf), plus purse offered, etc...there are probably scores of different types of races for every single kind of horse.

I'd say most of the age restrictions in place for age for specific races are for 2yr olds and 3 yr olds..

Obviously the Breeder Cup Classic ($5 Million Purse) and generally has the toughest field of any race during the year is open to 3 yr olds and up at the classic distance/surface: 1 1/4 mile on dirt.

Sure - but the races that people pay attention to (the triple crown) are just 3 year olds. It would be like if the NFL just picked a random set of 32 cities every year to host teams.

 

[derleider]

3 year old thoroughbreds are not physically mature and at high levels, i.e. stakes races, wouldn't stand a chance against older horses in the spring and early summer. By late summer or autumn 3 year olds have nearly caught up to the older horses and can compete against them. In lower level races you'll see 3 year olds racing against older horses but that has more to do with the older competitors not being top level runners.

Casual fans of the sport often only are interested in the Triple Crown races, which are restricted to 3 year olds. Dedicated fans place just as much, or more, importance on races for older horses.

Yes - casual fans are who I am talking about.

 

[Knight_Light]

Sure - but the races that people pay attention to (the triple crown) are just 3 year olds. It would be like if the NFL just picked a random set of 32 cities every year to host teams.

That's what the national sports media (not just horse fans/media) do focus on because those are 3 of the biggest races of the year.

Still for diehard horse fans, the biggest/most competitive races take place at the Breeder's Cup, but sadly, that falls right in the middle of college and NFL Football season, hence why the casual fan doesn't normally watch/follow those races.

 

[derleider]

That's what the national sports media (not just horse fans/media) do focus on because those are 3 of the biggest races of the year.

Still for diehard horse fans, the biggest/most competitive races take place at the Breeder's Cup, but sadly, that falls right in the middle of college and NFL Football season, hence why the casual fan doesn't normally watch/follow those races.

Yes - and Im saying you might get more people caring about the other races, if the big races had the same horses for a few years in a row, instead of, by design, new horses every year.

 

[Phi_1055]

Yes - casual fans are who I am talking about.

I got that. I don't know why racing has found it so difficult to get the casual fans to pay attention to the major races for older horses. Those races are usually promoted heavily and are nationally televised on the major networks.

To flip your argument around, it American Pharoah had been made to run against older horses you, as a casual fan, probably would have never heard of him. So on the one hand racing benefits from casual fans' interest in the Triple Crown races but it suffers from not being able to hold your interest later on. In years long past older horses such as Seabiscuit, Forego and Cigar were just as popular as the the 3 year olds.

 

[Phi_1055]

Yes - and Im saying you might get more people caring about the other races, if the big races had the same horses for a few years in a row, instead of, by design, new horses every year.

Racing does have most of the same horses running as older horses. Take a look at the field for the Whitney run at Saratoga this past Saturday. But for whatever reasons, the casual fans don't care.

 

[derleider]

Racing does have most of the same horses running as older horses. Take a look at the field for the Whitney run at Saratoga this past Saturday. But for whatever reasons, the casual fans don't care.

Because every year has new horses in the races that the public is into. Sure, you might not have heard of American Pharoah this year, but if hes as good as people say then he would be in the running for the Derby for several years AFTER this year. Instead, when next years Derby comes around with everyone watching, a whole new crop of horses will be in it.

 

[Knight_Light]

Because every year has new horses in the races that the public is into. Sure, you might not have heard of American Pharoah this year, but if hes as good as people say then he would be in the running for the Derby for several years AFTER this year. Instead, when next years Derby comes around with everyone watching, a whole new crop of horses will be in it.

One of the reason why the Kentucky Derby (let alone any shot at the Triple Crown) is that top horses get one shot...one shot to make it happen...just like how you had one Senior Prom (i.e. most don't keep going back to it year after year after year).

Almost every sport has some type of restriction...and in horse racing....only 3 yr olds get one shot at the Derby, Preakness, Belmont and/or other special stake races for 3 year olds only.

 

[derleider]

One of the reason why the Kentucky Derby (let alone any shot at the Triple Crown) is that top horses get one shot...one shot to make it happen...just like how you had one Senior Prom (i.e. most don't keep going back to it year after year after year).

Almost every sport has some type of restriction...and in horse racing....only 3 yr olds get one shot at the Derby, Preakness, Belmont and/or other special stake races for 3 year olds only.

Well, then, the flip side is people dont care about horse racing except 6 minutes out of the year, 4 if the a different horse wins the Preakness than the Belmont.

 

[Knight_Light]

Well, then, the flip side is people dont care about horse racing except 6 minutes out of the year, 4 if the a different horse wins the Preakness than the Belmont.

For some...and even if the entire horse racing industry changed to your whims...same might be true still.