I say memphis over cinci because memphis has a power broker behind them (fedex) and Cinci has jack and shit, and jack left town. Put in a power 5 Fedex could act like a Nike did for oregon.
B12 Expansion Is A GO
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I say memphis over cinci because memphis has a power broker behind them (fedex) and Cinci has jack and shit, and jack left town. Put in a power 5 Fedex could act like a Nike did for oregon.
Yeah, what a *ing joke. Perception is a b*tch to shake when idiots are in charge.
I've posted an article here about half a dozen times re: Oklahoma. They are not necessarily tied to Ok State, as long as Ok State has a landing spot. Oklahoma administrators and athletic department officials have no interest in the SEC. Oklahoma seems to want Pac-12 and B1G, likely in that order.
It's my opinion that Oklahoma can go wherever they want, provided they're not tied to Ok State. How realistic is it for Ok State to get a landing spot without Oklahoma? That I don't know.
Three n's, one t.
That research firm that made recommendations to the B1G said outside UT no one team had more value than RU...we were probably in in "10" after ND decided to stay indy until Nebby became available and knowing we'd still be here JD couldn't pass on that FB brand and thats when the B1G started talks with Md to partner up with to keep the numbers even.... we'd been on the unofficial waiting list for a few years at that point IMO !?!
Comparing Rutgers to any of the leftovers is pretty silly. Look we may have a lot of catching up to do as far as sports goes when compared to our fellow Big Ten members. However, expansion is about MONEY and Rutgers has made the Big Ten a TON OF MONEY since joining. Trust me no one regrets adding Rutgers in the Big Ten.
All of OSU, Michigan, Penn State, etc were all pretty much all in on Rutgers.
It wasn't for an easy win, it was to get filthy rich, even more so then they already are.
In time, we will get our facilitates upgraded and the rest of our sports will catch up, Wrestling, LAX, Soccer, track already has, more to come! We got all new staffs for football and MBB. We won't be doormats for long.
Good luck to the G5 schools that will have a chance to move up.
All of OSU, Michigan, Penn State, etc were all pretty much all in on Rutgers.
It wasn't for an easy win, it was to get filthy rich, even more so then they already are.
In time, we will get our facilitates upgraded and the rest of our sports will catch up, Wrestling, LAX, Soccer, track already has, more to come! We got all new staffs for football and MBB. We won't be doormats for long.
Good luck to the G5 schools that will have a chance to move up.
Drop UConn from 4 to 6 and I agree. They talk about the "lucrative northeast TV market", but they don't have either NYC or Boston. Hartford ranks #30, which places them a lot closer to Memphis than the column author's opinion. Also, they sent about 500 people to the 2011 Fiesta Bowl, so they don't have support for football (UCF has much better support). In fact, the writer talks down about UCF's 30,065 attendance average last year when they went 0-12, but UConn's average attendance was 28,224 in a year where they got to a bowl game (finished 6-7). Oh, and UCF is in the 19th largest market in the US.
The Big Ten had two ways to go with Rutgers.. add us or hope to see us drop football. The ACC made a HUGE error in adding BC and Syracuse over us...but that error would not be repeated twice. If the Big Ten did not add us we would have wound up in the ACC eventually. OSU, Michigan and PSU now have better access to New Jersey recruits.. as does all Big Ten teams.. and BTN won a big market as well. And while Rutgers will benefit immensely in revenue and research, every Big Ten member will benefit as well. I also think Maryland might add some benefits with Big Ten football being near the nation's capitol and politicians being to see their state schools playing at Maryland.. building relationships between DC and the Big Ten.
Interesting take on BYU and UCONN: FBall only member (save on travel costs for the other sports)?
Per some Bloomberg article I came across.
David Ubben of Sports on Earth says Cincinnati and U-Conn. top a Big 12 wish list that's described as "fluid," but Bowlsby also said Tuesday that the league would consider taking on football-only members (thus dispensing with the charade that this resurgent expansion talk has anything to do with sports other than football). That probably made BYU's ears perk up, because the Cougars could join the Big 12 in football only and not have to worry about the school's no-Sundays policy coming into play with its other sports. A football-only move also could further entice a far-flung school like U-Conn., because the Huskies' non-football teams could either stay in the AAC or move to the Big East (a much more comfortable fit, basketball-wise) and not have to worry about added travel costs.
Per some Bloomberg article I came across.
David Ubben of Sports on Earth says Cincinnati and U-Conn. top a Big 12 wish list that's described as "fluid," but Bowlsby also said Tuesday that the league would consider taking on football-only members (thus dispensing with the charade that this resurgent expansion talk has anything to do with sports other than football). That probably made BYU's ears perk up, because the Cougars could join the Big 12 in football only and not have to worry about the school's no-Sundays policy coming into play with its other sports. A football-only move also could further entice a far-flung school like U-Conn., because the Huskies' non-football teams could either stay in the AAC or move to the Big East (a much more comfortable fit, basketball-wise) and not have to worry about added travel costs.
why on Earth would anyone want to add Uconn's worse sport only?
Football only? For that I can see BYU and Boise St.
Uconn is worthless without MBB and only the Big East and the ACC care about MBB enough to add a school for it.
Football only? For that I can see BYU and Boise St.
Uconn is worthless without MBB and only the Big East and the ACC care about MBB enough to add a school for it.
Saw the possibility of football only members from Bowlsby's statements yesterday. if they're open to football only members, BYU is a perfect candidate because this eliminates any issue about the school not playing on Sundays (Olympic sports).
Also, would think if a Conference is open to football only, why not consider Boise State solely because of their performance on the field. They've had only 2 seasons with less than 10 wins in the last decade. This would not be a full conference member, thus, any concern about academics is limited.
Also, would think if a Conference is open to football only, why not consider Boise State solely because of their performance on the field. They've had only 2 seasons with less than 10 wins in the last decade. This would not be a full conference member, thus, any concern about academics is limited.
LOL agree. If UConn really needs the Big East so badly, they'll either go indy in football and join the BE in other sports, or use that to force the AAC to work out an agreement allowing them to join the BE in select sports.
Let's hope the UCONN fans get kicked in the nuts again!
That's exactly my point though by bringing it up. What viable option is left for Ok. St should Texas/OU leave. It's not likely to be the leftovers. There really isn't a viable option. Frankly that goes for Texas too and some of it's little brothers. It's just reminder UVA/VT back when the ACC tried to get Cuse/BC/Miami and eventually swapped out Cuse for VT because of the VA legislature putting pressure on UVA.
It's one of the main reasons I think the PAC12 is the destination if Texas decided to leave somewhere down the line. It's got the room for at least one of Texas' little brothers and Ok. St. So you can say yea OU can leave as long as Ok. St. has a solid landing spot but that's only in theory. In practice it doesn't work out like that so I tend to think Ok. St is a chain on OU's leg and possibly the same for some Texas' little brothers.
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This is the kind of thing that makes me think everything is wide open at the moment and it's hard to pinpoint who might be the favorites and not. There are quite a few options and directions the B12 could go in and I have a hard time seeing a likely choice by the info out there right now.
I think they're tied to Oklahoma and/or Texas. I could see scenarios where Texas and OU split up, say OU to the B1G and Texas to the Pac-12, and Ok State getting a tagalong, depending on the situation. If the Pac-12 is ever looking to get to 16, Ok State is almost certainly in that plan. They're a better option than the New Mexicos and the UNLVs and the Boise States of the world.
I suppose in that hypothetical I could see it but it seems like an unlikely outcome to think OU would split from Texas/Ok. State rather than just going along with them. To me the PAC12 can handle the logistics of a move the best simply because of the open spots. I still don't see it any time soon because of the LHN. People seem to overlook the roadblock that has presented. My thinking is about way down the line when that contract is close to running its course and at that time I think it's 50/50 whether Texas decides to stay or go.
Nicky51
This is 1000000% correct
Rutgers was coming in 2010 until the GOR issue with the big 12 sent Nebraska as number 12 to the big ten
It was a matter of who would be paired with Rutgers and Jim Delaney wanted to see what name was going to do ...at that point....it was always gojng to be Rutgers/Norte dame or Rutgers/Maryland
And I kept saying it for a long time after Nebraska was number 12
And notice it took 6-8 months after ndame went to the acc for the big ten to invitee Rutgers and Maryland
Notre dame remains the long term end game for Jim Delaney
People somehow keep thinking that OU is on the B1G wish list but I can see no way they would ever get in. OU is no where close to AAU status. Only ND would be admitted at this point without being in the AAU and that can be justified because it is a much smaller university with relatively high undergraduate admissions standards but with a much smaller graduate, and therefore, research component. I've often wondered if Nebraska would have been admitted had its AAU status been yanked a year earlier. At least it was in and had been qualified at some point. OU - I don't think so.
A
anon_ivydyf0amkzay
Guest
They are worthy of hate and loathing...their logo is in the shape of a uterus and their colors puke orange...
Think OU won't be going anywhere because the possible expansion is probably being done to make sure they don't.
No expansion might have meant the Sooners would start looking to get out if they could find a home and the PAC knowing pickings are mighty slim if they ever decides to expand might just start considering Oklahoma without Texas.
Texas just about runs the Big 12 and they won't be leaving along with making sure Houston isn't admitted.
So the PAC would look at Oklahoma and find a partner school that might be a B-12 school sick of Texas running things and preventing the conference from expanding.
I expect BYU and either Cincy or Colorado St , with Cincy having a slight edge.
Oklahoma, in my opinion, is pushing hard for the Vitamin Conference to expand and using the ACC Network as a reason, along with hinting that the PAC might be a place that has a better future if the B-12 doesn't expand.
No expansion might have meant the Sooners would start looking to get out if they could find a home and the PAC knowing pickings are mighty slim if they ever decides to expand might just start considering Oklahoma without Texas.
Texas just about runs the Big 12 and they won't be leaving along with making sure Houston isn't admitted.
So the PAC would look at Oklahoma and find a partner school that might be a B-12 school sick of Texas running things and preventing the conference from expanding.
I expect BYU and either Cincy or Colorado St , with Cincy having a slight edge.
Oklahoma, in my opinion, is pushing hard for the Vitamin Conference to expand and using the ACC Network as a reason, along with hinting that the PAC might be a place that has a better future if the B-12 doesn't expand.
If was Larry Scott....I would take by Oklahoma and Oklahoma state and force texas' hand
The pac12 can join the big ten and sec as a true power superconfrence and leave the acc a very distant fourth
A big 12 of
Texas
Texas tech
TCU
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas state
West va
Iowa state
Is a really weak confrence....and all of sudden very geographically splintered and disjointed
It would bring west va begging the acc for a phone call
Texas would then need to decide which of the confrencea it wants
I think they go the pac12...
Even if Texas goes elsewhere...Pac 12 can still get Kansas (good for their confrence and networks because of basketball) and choose which other pac12 left and move their network east of the Rockies.
Interesting game a chess going on
The pac12 can join the big ten and sec as a true power superconfrence and leave the acc a very distant fourth
A big 12 of
Texas
Texas tech
TCU
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas state
West va
Iowa state
Is a really weak confrence....and all of sudden very geographically splintered and disjointed
It would bring west va begging the acc for a phone call
Texas would then need to decide which of the confrencea it wants
I think they go the pac12...
Even if Texas goes elsewhere...Pac 12 can still get Kansas (good for their confrence and networks because of basketball) and choose which other pac12 left and move their network east of the Rockies.
Interesting game a chess going on
This one's going to come back and haunt UConn. Remember their fans breaking the arm of the Iowa State mascot. Its payback time. Iowa State will vote against UConn. Now their fans can claim enemies in all conferences.
http://deadspin.com/5841303/did-uconn-fans-break-the-iowa-state-mascots-arm-last-night
http://deadspin.com/5841303/did-uconn-fans-break-the-iowa-state-mascots-arm-last-night
So many things:
1) the main thing this thread points out is how weak the field for expansion is. There is BYU at #1, but only for the BIG 12. No one else wants them. After that Houston is #2, but only based on recent performance. What happens when their coach leaves for UT or another long established program? Memphis? Cinnci? UConn? USF? UCF? What do any current Big12 fans care about any of these schools? Or any other conference for that matter?
2) The driving force behind Big12 expansion was the Oklahoma President. He told the conference that either they expand or OU was gone. The vote changed just hours (or less) before the vote was taken. In fact, just before the vote was taken, there was a news story that the Big12 was going to pass on expansion yet again. If the Big12 does expand, OU will be obligated to stay.
3) As far as expansion of the other P5 conferences there are no generalizations. There is not one conference that has any interest in expansion just because of a popular notion of 16 teams. Not one conference will dilute current members share of the pie just to get to some number, especially with the paucity of value adding candidates. Of all the teams out there who can add value to any conference, there are ND and UT. Period.
4) No one has mentioned any reason why the Pac12 should expand. Maybe because they want to reduce their members' share of conference income? Maybe because they all want to play in Boise every other year? Maybe because they want another team with lousy academics in a conference that is mostly very highly regarded academic institutions? IMO, the Pac12 is the least likely to expand.
5) The SEC would love to have UT (as would everyone) and would be happy to take OU as a partner. Who else makes sense for the SEC? Everyone else is dilutive to members' income.
6) The Big10 is in the same boat. Name the schools beside ND and UT that will increase members' income. Anyone? OK. Maybe UVA solidifies the MD/VA/DC market. Maybe GaTech adds a piece of the Atlanta market. Is that enough? Will the Big10 wait forever for ND? Now that Big10 members will be making more than ND perhaps they will have a change of heart. Probably not. ND likes the ACC schedule a lot better than the BIG schedule. Can you see ND in the BIG East?
7) ACC. Second most likely conference to expand, but only if ND joins as a full member. Ironically, UConn is likely in the same position as RU was a few years ago; tied to ND joining the BIG (for UConn it is the ACC), before the BIG gave up and settled on UMD.
8) Isn't it amazing how the conversation has changed. Just a few months ago these discussions on expansion focused on existing P5 teams changing conferences. Clemson and FSU to the SEC, etc. Now that possibility isn't even mentioned. Unfortunately, until a lot of people get over the idea that there is some universal force that will make all the conferences take bad teams and lose a lot of money just to get to what seems to be the magical number of 16, these conversations are doomed to continue.
1) the main thing this thread points out is how weak the field for expansion is. There is BYU at #1, but only for the BIG 12. No one else wants them. After that Houston is #2, but only based on recent performance. What happens when their coach leaves for UT or another long established program? Memphis? Cinnci? UConn? USF? UCF? What do any current Big12 fans care about any of these schools? Or any other conference for that matter?
2) The driving force behind Big12 expansion was the Oklahoma President. He told the conference that either they expand or OU was gone. The vote changed just hours (or less) before the vote was taken. In fact, just before the vote was taken, there was a news story that the Big12 was going to pass on expansion yet again. If the Big12 does expand, OU will be obligated to stay.
3) As far as expansion of the other P5 conferences there are no generalizations. There is not one conference that has any interest in expansion just because of a popular notion of 16 teams. Not one conference will dilute current members share of the pie just to get to some number, especially with the paucity of value adding candidates. Of all the teams out there who can add value to any conference, there are ND and UT. Period.
4) No one has mentioned any reason why the Pac12 should expand. Maybe because they want to reduce their members' share of conference income? Maybe because they all want to play in Boise every other year? Maybe because they want another team with lousy academics in a conference that is mostly very highly regarded academic institutions? IMO, the Pac12 is the least likely to expand.
5) The SEC would love to have UT (as would everyone) and would be happy to take OU as a partner. Who else makes sense for the SEC? Everyone else is dilutive to members' income.
6) The Big10 is in the same boat. Name the schools beside ND and UT that will increase members' income. Anyone? OK. Maybe UVA solidifies the MD/VA/DC market. Maybe GaTech adds a piece of the Atlanta market. Is that enough? Will the Big10 wait forever for ND? Now that Big10 members will be making more than ND perhaps they will have a change of heart. Probably not. ND likes the ACC schedule a lot better than the BIG schedule. Can you see ND in the BIG East?
7) ACC. Second most likely conference to expand, but only if ND joins as a full member. Ironically, UConn is likely in the same position as RU was a few years ago; tied to ND joining the BIG (for UConn it is the ACC), before the BIG gave up and settled on UMD.
8) Isn't it amazing how the conversation has changed. Just a few months ago these discussions on expansion focused on existing P5 teams changing conferences. Clemson and FSU to the SEC, etc. Now that possibility isn't even mentioned. Unfortunately, until a lot of people get over the idea that there is some universal force that will make all the conferences take bad teams and lose a lot of money just to get to what seems to be the magical number of 16, these conversations are doomed to continue.
One thing I read is that if Notre Dame football does join a conference it has to be the ACC because of the agreement made between the ACC and ND when it placed its other sports programs in the ACC.
>“No, Notre Dame cannot have a wandering eye. They not only signed a grant of rights with the ACC, but they signed an additional contract, which mandates that if they do become a conference member in football, there is no other place they can do that other than the Atlantic Coast Conference. And that’s through the year 2025. <
http://collegespun.com/acc/syracuse...otball-is-key-to-conference-launching-network
>“No, Notre Dame cannot have a wandering eye. They not only signed a grant of rights with the ACC, but they signed an additional contract, which mandates that if they do become a conference member in football, there is no other place they can do that other than the Atlantic Coast Conference. And that’s through the year 2025. <
http://collegespun.com/acc/syracuse...otball-is-key-to-conference-launching-network
The length was increased and it's to 2036 IIRC and that includes ND only being allowed to join the ACC until that time.
Houston makes zero sense. They add no new TV market and only dilute Texas recruiting. BYU is a no brainier especially if for football only. My next two obvious choices(in no order) have to be UCF and Cinci although I can see the strong argument for Fed Ex money. However, they would have to contractually agree to huge upgrades in their football facilities.
The Big10 went East to pick up TV markets
The ACC went NorthEast to pick up TV markets
IMO, the Big12 needs to go to Florida to pick up at least 1 if not 2 Huge TV markets (Orlando and Tampa). Even if those 2 teams don't bring a lot of 'star power' , it helps their TV attractiveness, and more importantly, serves as 'Insurance', should some existing Big12 teams get poached. The Big12/8 already lost Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, Mizzouri, they are teetering on the brink of disaster.
The ACC went NorthEast to pick up TV markets
IMO, the Big12 needs to go to Florida to pick up at least 1 if not 2 Huge TV markets (Orlando and Tampa). Even if those 2 teams don't bring a lot of 'star power' , it helps their TV attractiveness, and more importantly, serves as 'Insurance', should some existing Big12 teams get poached. The Big12/8 already lost Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, Mizzouri, they are teetering on the brink of disaster.
It wouldn't make any sense to you, unless you are from Texas. That can't "dilute Texas recruiting" because the state of Texas is bigger than many other states put together plus they have a robust HS football culture.
The Big12 appear to want nothing to do with the state of Florida, when they had a small chance at FSU and Da'U, they didn't act on it, that tells you all you need to know.
Fed Ex money? I think you have the wrong school. Memphis is the one with Fed Ex money.
Yea which is why I said next two followed by HOWEVER. I assumed everyone on a football board would know it was a transition to Memphis as they have been discussed by everyone.
As for diluting the product, I don't care how big Texas is. If you give Houston P5 status with their head coach they immediately become a very viable option for top tier kids that usually go to Texas, Baylor(pre rape), TCU etc. they aren't going to want that.
That is small time Big East thinking. Just having a random low interest school in a big TV market doesn't mean anything, see the old Big East and the AAC today.
Question how many Big 12 alums are there is Florida? I am guessing nowhere near enough to have any chance in hell of getting the people of Florida to pay for a Big12 network.
There are a TON of Big Ten Alums in NJ and NYC as well as DC and Maryland. The Big Ten actually did a ton of market research, we were not picked at random and their homework paid off big time.
Sure, if you believe the B1G and Notre Dame will never be rich enough to buy their way out of that contract...
If The Longhorns are worry about Houston, then they are is deeper trouble than anyone could have realized. That is like Rutgers worrying about Buffalo or Umass.
Not really. Unless buffalo all of a sudden became a hot bed for local HS talent, hired the hottest young name in coaching, expanded their stadium, had unlimited money, AND boosters crazy enough to play the recruiting game with no shame. Look at what Baylor accomplished by going lawless......imagine Houston. Lol
You know one thing that hasn't been mentioned is the possibility of the B12's GOR being extended further (it's 8 years left right now) as a result of this expansion. Similar to the ACC's being extended due to the ACC network. I'm sure all the "lesser" schools in the conference would want it and then it's just Texas/OU. OU seems to be the one pushing expansion and maybe as a condition for agreeing to it Texas would want the GOR extended so they can't leave. So Texas continues to rule the B12 roost, OU stays, they get to keep the LHN and maybe a tiered revenue share is enacted down the line if they fall too far behind financially.
