Many of us have known ND for years from the Big East days. It would be unwise to ever trust them.
B12 Expansion
- Thread starter MozRU
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That's my point. You are making assumptions based on the Big East. You are also making an assumption that the ACC "trusts" Notre Dame. Did you ever consider the ACC might have an agenda themselves regarding this agreement with Notre Dame? It's pretty clear from what Swofford said after the network announcement that the ACC's real plan in partnering with Notre Dame was to get a network. It's kind of funny how some people think on this issue. On one hand, Swofford and the ACC are manipulative schemers who conspired to destroy the Big East. On the other hand, Swofford and the ACC are a bunch of dumb rubes getting taken by Notre Dame, hook line and sinker. It's amusing how they went from being so smart and calculating to so dumb and bumbling.
You are missing the point. The Big East had an agenda with them as well. But please go on believing that you have outsmarted them. A bit touchy you seem to be about anything ACC. Lighten up, its only an exchange of opinions.
I haven't seen the Commish make that definitive statement. To be fair, I haven't been following all that close. Do you have a link to that statement?
Here's my problem with all the speculation. You are all correct. Every prediction of which schools will be in the Big 12 is correct because each potential combination of the 17 or so schools in the mix fit a particular plan. So, depending on the plan there is a combination of schools that will fit. My problem is that the Big 12 should know the plan and invite the appropriate schools. Delaney had a plan for the BIG and BTN and RU and Maryland fit, so we were invited in. In this case the Big 12 seems to be gathering applications from all sorts of schools. Do they have a plan? Shouldn't they know what they want to accomplish and invite the appropriate schools that fit? This does not bode well for the Big 12 in my opinion. It really looks like they are flying by the seat of their pants.
I think it's safe to say they do actually have a plan. Having all these schools make their case is part of it. They may be saying our Plan A is to add school X and school Y but let's bring in more schools to make their pitch to confirm our choices and perhaps serve as a fact finding mission for our potential 13ths and 14th schools.
Maybe a school blows them away with their presentation/strategy or maybe one of their top choices underwhelms. They've done their research and background I'm sure but let the schools come in and tell them what they may not know about why they should be a top candidate. Maybe they one of their top choices gets replaced or they're so impressed they go to 14 schools.
It's like searching for a new employee. You have your top target identified but you want to bring other people so you can be certain you're making the right decision and/or you may find someone else impresses you more when they have the opportunity.
And they not operating from the same point of strength that the Big Ten was when they expanded. For instance, it's highly doubtful they could pull a team away from another P5 (like Maryland).
No, I'm not touchy. I just point out fallacies and inconsistencies with some of the theories (yours included). You are actually the one getting touchy just because of one dissenting opinion. You are simply basing your opinion on what you want to see happen, rather than anything factual.
You are probably correct. The only problem I have is the number and variety in the schools being listed. Even your analogy to hiring a new employee. You would still put parameters on the candidates based on your plan for the employee. Some of these schools work if they are looking for revenue, others if they want travel partners for WVU, others work if they go west, others east, others if they are trying to keep other conferences out of Texas. I mean they are all over the place. So if they have a plan it is certainly not set in stone and not readily apparent.
There is no doubt that the goal of the ACC/Swofford was the elimination of the threat the Big East posed. If I were Swofford, I'd have done the same to keep Clemson and FSU happy. ND joined the ACC for sports other than football because the Big East was floundering. They'll do the same thing to the ACC the minute they find greener pastures somewhere else. One of the best moments of RU football was when we told them to shove it after they tried to strong-arm us into an unfair contract to play them.
Think for a second. The Big East doesn't play football, so why does football matter to them? UConn bringing basketball -- an outstanding men's team and the best -- and a profitable -- women's team is more than enough. The question is, will they finally give up, drop back to FCS and ask the Colonial for admission? (And take UMass with them)
Final4 I get the rest of your UConn adds But LAX? They only have club teams and what the heck does the Big 12 care about LAX??? ACC maybe to get to 6 teams but no way the B12
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anon_ivydyf0amkzay
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Houston wasn't respected until they started winning. This is when the Big 12 realize how important the Houston area recruiting actually is. I've been telling you guys for years the Houston Cougars has a possibility of becoming the next Miami Hurricanes simply because of the talent Rich area. They don't need no stinking four and five star players and guess what neither of do Illinois, Rutgers or Temple for that matter. If you guys actually understood that recruiting is for small rural towns. Any Metro area has a chance of becoming the next Miami Hurricanes and that includes Rutgers and Temple..... it's all about who can you get to qualify for your school and who can you hire as a coach. There are tons underrated Talent in highly densely populated Metro areas. Young kids who can move and run and make quick and sound decisions. Basically basketball athleticism translate to football a lot better than track and field athleticism. But you can't understand that if you sit around watching sports center highlights and worshipping the fabricated falsehood of SEC speed..... LOL.
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Good points, but hopefully Rhule drops Temple like a hot potato once he gets a better offer. S Jersey & eastern Pa should belong to RU ;)
I am not a Houston proponent for the same reasons I am not on the UCF / USF band wagon.
In Texas the top fan support schools are Texas, A and M, and Tech. Then you have the religious schools of Baylor, TCU, and SMU. Houston is the 4th most followed team at best in Texas. Also, remember Football is just one sport in a conference. Houston has to show they are a perennial top team in football. Boise has done very well but they are not considered a top 25 program overall.
In baseball - A and M, Tech, and TCU were all top 15 teams. Houston was the #57 RPI. UCF - 157, USF- 169.
in Basketball - A and M, Baylor, and Texas were in the top 35. Houston was 90, ucf 210, and usf 230.
In Texas the top fan support schools are Texas, A and M, and Tech. Then you have the religious schools of Baylor, TCU, and SMU. Houston is the 4th most followed team at best in Texas. Also, remember Football is just one sport in a conference. Houston has to show they are a perennial top team in football. Boise has done very well but they are not considered a top 25 program overall.
In baseball - A and M, Tech, and TCU were all top 15 teams. Houston was the #57 RPI. UCF - 157, USF- 169.
in Basketball - A and M, Baylor, and Texas were in the top 35. Houston was 90, ucf 210, and usf 230.
ESPN wants BYU,B12 is a little skittish on BYU with honor code garbage,LGBT issues after Baylor.Texas and OU want Houston..
The extended GOR issue also adds into the possibility of 2 vrs 4 schools added if ESPN has to pay more per school. BYU and Houston are the leaders.
The extended GOR issue also adds into the possibility of 2 vrs 4 schools added if ESPN has to pay more per school. BYU and Houston are the leaders.
Wrong as most of your posts seem to be but keep living in that world. You choose to ignore much fact in your posts including this one so why stop now. Why you seem to have an ACC inferiority complex is beyond me.
I'm not sold on Houston as one of the two top choices. The B12 - with TX, TT, Baylor, and TCU already there - can do whatever they want with regard to recruiting in the Houston area, along with A&M, of course. In fact, with Houston in the conference, one could argue that the other Texas schools would get fewer recruits out the Houston area, not more, since Houston's recruiting there would likely improve if it gets into a P5 conference.
As for UT "wanting" Houston in the B12, I see that only being due to political pressure being applied, since Houston is a fellow public institution in the state. Same goes for TT's "support" of Houston.
What the B12 needs most of all is to expand its TV footprint, which lags far behind the other P5 conferences. A Florida school does that, as does Cincinnati or Memphis, as well as UConn. Add BYU to the list, at least for 6 days out of the week. Houston adds nothing in that regard.
As for UT "wanting" Houston in the B12, I see that only being due to political pressure being applied, since Houston is a fellow public institution in the state. Same goes for TT's "support" of Houston.
What the B12 needs most of all is to expand its TV footprint, which lags far behind the other P5 conferences. A Florida school does that, as does Cincinnati or Memphis, as well as UConn. Add BYU to the list, at least for 6 days out of the week. Houston adds nothing in that regard.
I'm not ignoring any facts. You haven't posted a "fact" about this topic, only your opinion.
The OSUs, UMs and UTs have let it go one this long, I don't see any reason they suddenly now would want to force ND's hand. If UM and OSU wanted to force a hand, wouldn't it have been wiser a few years ago when the BIG was looking to expand?
They have no incentive to force Notre Dame's hand. They would have incentive to increase their revenue by altering the playoff structure, which indirectly forces Notre Dame's hand.
How?
If the playoffs go to 8............. 5 spots for the Conference Champions, 3 open slots to selections. Right now, ND is in competition for a playoff spot amongst conference champions. The argument has been made that a Top 5, one loss ND team could lose a playoff spot to a Conference Champ in the current set up based on how the voters choose.
Here's a scenario:
#1 - Clemson - undefeated, won ACC conference title game
#2 - Alabama - undefeated, won SEC conference title game
#3 - USC - undefeated, won Pac 12 conference title game
#4 - ND - only loss to #3 USC
#5 - Ohio State - one loss to MSU, but still won conference title game
In that scenario, under the current system, you'd get a lot of people screaming that OSU deserves it and you might get a selection committee that agrees.
But if you expanded to 8 teams, ND would be a stone cold lock in the above scenario.
I don't hate UConn but New England football sucks. There are a lot of FCS, D2 and D3 level players to fill all the smaller programs in the region and that's it. Not only should UCONN drop back to FCS but BC shouldn't be far behind if they know what's best for them. The ACC has been a bad move for them thus far and I don't think you'd find many objective people who would disagree.
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If the P5 champs get automatic bids, Notre Dame is effectively a G5 schools. Under this scenario, the P5 schools have a tremendous advantage over Notre Dame. Right off the bat, every P5 school would have access to 4 playoff spots, whereas Notre Dame would only have 3. Then, they have practical advantages. P5 schools don't have to compete with the entire nation for the automatic bid, only the other schools in their own conference. They wouldn't have to worry about ranking, strength of schedule, impressing the committee, etc. The would completely control their own destinies, and it would all be contained within the lines of the field. Schools like North Carolina or Washington St would have much better shot at making the playoffs than Notre Dame. For example, North Carolina could make the playoffs simply by winning the Coastal division (not the most difficult thing to do), and then just luck up one time against Clemson or Florida St in the CCG. They could be 9-3 or 8-4 and still make it to the playoffs. Plus, they have the backup of getting an at-large bid if they don't win the conference. That's a huge recruiting advantage P5 schools would have against Notre Dame, should that format ever be adopted.
Sorry, what "you know" from Notre Dame's time in the Big East is not a "fact." It's an opinion, and an ill-informed one at that.
I really hope we go to 4 super conferences as opposed to expanding and watering down the current playoff product. 8 team in playoffs decreases degree of difficulty and reduces meaning in regular season significantly.
Well yes you'd have to win your division though. I hate the whole idea of 5 auto bids and then let it be a popularity contest for the remaining 3
Beats an unranked conference champion getting in before a high ranked non champion.
This is known as the Uconn rule. NEVER AGAIN!!!!
Not necessarily. I think they get the top 2-3 teams right. The 4th will always be the problem. If you have 4 super conferences of 2 divisions each you let the conference championship act as a national quarter final. If you can't win your own division, no matter how difficult it may be, do you really deserve to play in the national QUARTER final over teams that won their divisions? The ACC Coastal was probably the weakest division in the P5 last year but UNC was IMO deserving of their #8 ranking heading into the game.
The only ill informed opinions on this thread appear to be your own. But please keep posting for the amusement value alone. Your ignorance is only exceeded by your determination to keep proving how little you actually know.
ND would rather make money than get the NC. By staying an independent they craft their schedule to give themselves 7 true home games and two or three neutral site games most of which draw more ND fans than the opponent. They almost never play more than three true away games. So they make a fortune. Then add in their deal with NBC and they are a money making machine. The coaches and players may be more interested in the NC but the administration will take the money over the NC any day of the week. The current playoff format works stained them because it favors the P5 champions and, if the ACC champ gets in many of the committee members would hesitate putting a one loss ND in because it is the equivalent of putting two teams from the same conference in the playloffs. If ND was in the ACC they would have had to play the ACC champ in the reg season or the conference championship and one of them would have knocked the other one out. So the system works against ND and if they could change it they would but they won't join a conference. It will cost them a fortune to do so. They will push for an 8 team playoff. Then they can remain an Indy forever.
You are making it overly complicated. In an 8 playoff team set up, ND's chances are making it are increased. I don't think you'll find one analyst who would suggest otherwise.
This year is a unique where they only have 3 true road games - @ Texas, @ USC and @ NCSU. Their other road games are Cuse in the Meadowlands and Navy in Jacksonville and Army in San Antonio.
But last year, your bolded part is not accurate.
2015 - @UVA, @Temple, @Stanford, @Pitt and @Clemson
2014 - @Navy, @USC, @FSU, @ASU
2013 - @UM, @Purdue, @AF, @Pitt, @Stanford
2012 - @MSU, @OU, @USC, @BC
2011 - @UM, @Purdue, @WF, @Pittsburgh, @Stanford
They typically play 4-5 true road games a year and that's not much different than most other power schools. Ohio State had 5 true road games in 2015 and 5 true road games in 2014.
Nothing I said was ill-informed. You just got a monkey up your ass when I suggested that any issues the Big East had with Notre Dame wasn't relevant to the ACC's agreement with Notre Dame, and that's absolutely true. You are making the assumption that the ACC and Big East had identical agendas. This is not reliable assumption.
Nope, I'm not making it overly complicated in the least. Notre Dame's chances of making the playoffs simply do not go up with 8 teams, if the P5 conferences get automatic bids. You could find plenty of analysts that would agree, if the discussion involved automatic bids. If the conversation is simply on expanding the current system to 8 teams, as is usually the case, then it's a different story.
I still disagree. Right now ND is in competition for 4 at large spots but has to deal with conference champs taking those slots because some argue the committee should give preference to them over ND.
Expand to 8 and give 5 slots to conference champs and creating 3 open slots for anyone without then having to compete with conference champs? It's a better situation for ND. Sure, there are some rare times when ND or any at large might get hosed if some 4 loss team wins a conference title but in most years, ND would benefit from 8 teams, even with conference champs getting auto bids.
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