B12 Expansion

[MYHATINTHERING]

My hat,

I think Cincy is in and rightfully so. They deserve it. Houston or BYU is likely the other choice. Hard to say about UConn. That's your opinion. They add an academic profile. Maybe the Big 12 wants that. You can't deny what their basketball programs have accomplished. UConn in the Big 12 is actually no worse than BC being in the ACC. If Big 12 eventually wants to expand again, I can see them being very much in the mix.

I hear you but football drives the bus and the B12 powerhouses are not going to want to an Eastern school like Uconn upsetting their bball party.

I would love for Temple to go but selfishly, I don't want us to deal with another major in our area so I'm hoping it's Houston and someone that does not affect our recruiting, area, or conference in any way

 

[ecojew]

The following first round Big-12 expansion vote score sheet is from an Oklahoma State board; I don't know how accurate/legit/real it is. Some surprising results as you can see!

Northern Illinois is getting lots of support, and is currently #3 after round 1, being only behind the clear leader Cincinnati, and #2 Colorado State!

The big surprise is that we were led to believe over the past few weeks that Texas supported Houston, and Oklahoma supported Cincinnati.... but as you can see, the Longhorns vetoed Houston!

It's pretty clear that the high population B1G states of Ohio and Illinois are popular expansion targets for the Big 12, with Cincinnati being almost a sure thing.

Lovie Smith and Pat Fitzgerald will possibly go ballistic if Northern Illinois is chosen!

83. Cincinnati
63. Colorado State
57. Northern Illinois
56. Connecticut (Tech veto)
52. BYU (OSU, WVU veto)
50. Memphis
46. Boise State (WVU veto)
29. SMU (OU, Texas veto)
29. Houston (OU, OSU, TCU, Texas veto)
24. UCF
13. USF
13. East Carolina (Kansas, KSU veto)
12. Temple
10. Tulane
7. New Mexico (Kansas, KSU veto)
4. Arkansas State
1. San Diego State
1. UNLV
0. Air Force
0. Rice

Vetoes used:
0: Baylor, Iowa State
1: TCU, Tech
2: Kansas, KSU, OU, OSU, Texas, WVU




Interesting stuff!

Interesting indeed. I'm not surprised by UT's vetoes of two Texas schools. I was very dubious about the earlier announcement that they would support Houston. It makes no sense for them to do so since Houston adds nothing to the B12 TV footprint, which is what it most needs to expand. Houston had four vetoes. How many does it take to eliminate a candidate school?

The biggest surprise is the support for NIU. Have any of those folks ever been to DeKalb? Could they even find it if they tried to go there? It's 70 miles of cornfields (and nothing else) west of Chicago. It's stadium holds fewer than 30,000 and is seldom anywhere near full. I seriously doubt that NIU would bring in the kind of additional cable TV subscribers that RU and UMd did for the B1G.

There seems to be some opposition to BYU, which is not too surprising. To see both Rice and SMU carried on into the second round seems more like not wanting to offend fellow Texas universities than it does an indication of further serious consideration.

The status of Memphis seems to be up in the air.

 

[BlockR]

UT is supporting Houston..in exchange Houston is allowing a UT campus to be enlarged in Houston..a political trade off..Memphis is out.WVU is NOT voting for Cinncy..
It remains Houston and BYU at top.

 

[letterman]

I was listening to CBS sports talk radio this afternoon while I was painting. The guy said his locks were BYU and Houston if the B12 only took two teams.

If they took four, then they would add BYU Houston, Cincy and UCONN. Something along the lines, "The B12 can't ignore a big state school like UCONN."

Is UCONN a serious contender?

Selfishly, I don't want another Power5 team in the NE vying for recruits. Plus, screw UCONN.

 

[letterman]

latest official report is that byu and boise st. have been eliminated from consideration

 

[AntiG]

Brett McMurphy reported that AF, BYU, UCF, Cincy, CSU, UConn, UH, Rice, USF, SMU, Temple, Tulane made it through the first cuts, and CBS Sports reported that Memphis made it as well.

ECU, SD State, UNLV and New Mexico all have confirmed that they are out.
No word yet on NIU, Boise State or Arkansas State.

 

[srru86]

Rather Heather Graham.

To each his own, but I meant Ashley the model.

 

[AntiG]

latest official report is that byu and boise st. have been eliminated from consideration

who reported that one?

 

[RUSK97]

Brett McMurphy reported that AF, BYU, UCF, Cincy, CSU, UConn, UH, Rice, USF, SMU, Temple, Tulane made it through the first cuts, and CBS Sports reported that Memphis made it as well.

ECU, SD State, UNLV and New Mexico all have confirmed that they are out.
No word yet on NIU, Boise State or Arkansas State.

Anybody get the feeling that when all is said and done, the B12 will stay at 10 and that they're jerking these AAC/MW teams around for publicity?

 

[letterman]

per Sirius radio this am ...big 12 announced that byu and boise are no longer in contention

 

[sherrane]

In the future, the committee determining the requirements required to participate in the National Championship games could put in a provision requiring Conference membership (including a Conference Championship game).

I think Notre Dame, BYU and Army are the only major football independents left.
If BYU goes to the Big 12 and Army say would join C-USA to take the place of Houston going to the Big 12, that would only leave Notre Dame.

Will the rest of college football give an exemption to only Notre Dame or will they say join or you're out.

I believe at some point in time Notre Dame will have to decide where they want to go.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

UMass is independent this year. New Mexico State and Idaho are leaving the Sun Belt next year.

 

[AntiG]

per Sirius radio this am ...big 12 announced that byu and boise are no longer in contention

Not too sure how accurate that is given BYU was the top program on their entire list and the B12 (Bowlsby) hasn't announced anything officially yet other than that they were vetting schools. The school list, and subsequent reveals have been leaks to the press but nothing official.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Anybody get the feeling that when all is said and done, the B12 will stay at 10 and that they're jerking these AAC/MW teams around for publicity?

Could be. My guess is while they are publicly speaking with Non Power 5 teams,they also secretly are trying to lure another Power 5 team (ACC, PAC12) to join. In the end, I see Cincy and one other (Houston, UCF, Memphis,BYU) being added because 2 teams will add more money, a conf champ game and a clearer path to the NC.

 

[AntiG]

Could be. My guess is while they are publicly speaking with Non Power 5 teams,they also secretly are trying to lure another Power 5 team (ACC, PAC12) to join. In the end, I see Cincy and one other (Houston, UCF, Memphis,BYU) being added because 2 teams will add more money, a conf champ game and a clearer path to the NC.

The conference championship game is already covered, as the NCAA changed the rules to allow for 10 team conferences to have one.

 

[MozRU]

per Sirius radio this am ...big 12 announced that byu and boise are no longer in contention

Sounds as though the B12 didn't want to feel the heat of BYU's "issues."

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

the BYU thing has not been reported anywhere else thus far.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

Sounds as though the B12 didn't want to feel the heat of BYU's "issues."

If the big dumpster fire lets some social justice snowflakes dictate or influence their expansion, then they deserve to remain the preeminent dumpster fire that they are...and should be made fun of for unceasingly!!!!

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

Sounds as though the B12 didn't want to feel the heat of BYU's "issues."

terrible that their religious views and freedoms are being held against them

BYU would be perfect in the b12

 

[MozRU]

If the big dumpster fire lets some social justice snowflakes dictate or influence their expansion, then they deserve to remain the preeminent dumpster fire that they are...and should be made fun of for unceasingly!!!!

Jeez. I guess we now know you hate some people .

 

[MozRU]

terrible that their religious views and freedoms are being held against them

BYU would be perfect in the b12

How is it being held against them? They are free to practice their religion jist like the B12 is free to practice theirs.

 

[JoeRU0304]

While our odds of an invite are an extreme long shot, as a long suffering alum, I have to say that it's nice that we finally have folks that sit in the athletic office on North Broad that finally "get it". It's a crime that it took 20 + years to figure it out. Hard to tell what the Big 12 wants to do. If it goes to 2, I think UH and Cincy are the front runners. If it really wants to set up an Eastern presence for WVU and go to 7 school divisions, then it could attempt to set up a division consisting of WVU, Cincy, UConn, TU, Kansas, Iowa St and K St. Southern division would still have UT, TT, OU, Ok St, TCU, Baylor and either BYU or Houston.

However it turns out, as I said, kind of refreshing to have some folks realize that although we still have a ton of work in front of us, we've made strides and we aren't "same old TU". Good luck in Seattle.

I think Temple had some key factors going for it (location/ market, more investment in athletics/ facilities) but has a bunch of key factors going against it as well (historically weak FB attendance, facilities, lack of control over FB stadium, limited sports teams- no men's track/field, no baseball, no wrestling, etc., conflicted relationship with both city and Eagles). TU has potential but until those latter factors get addressed sufficiently, they're going to limit you substantially.


Joe P.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

c'mon Moz, if they have everything a conference is looking for but are rejected due to religious views that may not be PC, how is that not wrong?

 

[needmorecowbell]

The conference championship game is already covered, as the NCAA changed the rules to allow for 10 team conferences to have one.

I should clarify. I beleive the NCAA told the B12 that they could have a conf championship with 10 team if they plan to expand to 12+. There were plenty of rumors going around that the NCAA wanted they to have at least 12.

 

[AntiG]

per Sirius radio this am ...big 12 announced that byu and boise are no longer in contention

Boise confirmed by their own president
http://www.idahostatesman.com/sport...t/boise-state-university/article99216562.html

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

Jeez. I guess we now know you hate some people .

SJWs? Was it not clear enough!?! If there's a dumb, emotionally based decision to be made by the b12, I have no doubt they will proceed in the stupidest way possible! It's called a clear and unambiguous track record!![roll][roll]

 

[mdh2003]

The following first round Big-12 expansion vote score sheet is from an Oklahoma State board; I don't know how accurate/legit/real it is. Some surprising results as you can see!

Northern Illinois is getting lots of support, and is currently #3 after round 1, being only behind the clear leader Cincinnati, and #2 Colorado State!

The big surprise is that we were led to believe over the past few weeks that Texas supported Houston, and Oklahoma supported Cincinnati.... but as you can see, the Longhorns vetoed Houston!

It's pretty clear that the high population B1G states of Ohio and Illinois are popular expansion targets for the Big 12, with Cincinnati being almost a sure thing.

Lovie Smith and Pat Fitzgerald will possibly go ballistic if Northern Illinois is chosen!

83. Cincinnati
63. Colorado State
57. Northern Illinois
56. Connecticut (Tech veto)
52. BYU (OSU, WVU veto)
50. Memphis
46. Boise State (WVU veto)
29. SMU (OU, Texas veto)
29. Houston (OU, OSU, TCU, Texas veto)
24. UCF
13. USF
13. East Carolina (Kansas, KSU veto)
12. Temple
10. Tulane
7. New Mexico (Kansas, KSU veto)
4. Arkansas State
1. San Diego State
1. UNLV
0. Air Force
0. Rice

Vetoes used:
0: Baylor, Iowa State
1: TCU, Tech
2: Kansas, KSU, OU, OSU, Texas, WVU




Interesting stuff!

I want this pic to be the real deal, because it's so fascinating.

It would be great if Northern Illinois made it solely on the reason that no one gave a crap about them enough to veto them.

 

[MJL_52]

Boise is out of the running. I'd have to imagine this is going to be the end of the American. Perhaps that "mega merger" between C-USA & AAC will be revisited.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...oo-is-no-longer-a-big-12-expansion-candidate/

 

[AntiG]

Boise is out of the running. I'd have to imagine this is going to be the end of the American. Perhaps that "mega merger" between C-USA & AAC will be revisited.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsport...oo-is-no-longer-a-big-12-expansion-candidate/

it was talk of a mega-merger between CUSA and MWC (not AAC) IF BE/AAC was able to poach teams to form a western division (SD State, Boise, BYU and Colorado State/AF were being discussed to join up with Tulsa, Houston, SMU and Rice a couple years back).

Keep in mind though, the AAC even in the worst case scenario if they lost 4 teams (let's assume Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis & UConn) much like the Big East still have the biggest contract and media clout, while the MWC has very little in terms of media markets. It could lead to something crazy like the AAC getting Army and BYU to agree to join, then a poaching of NIU from the MAC, Rice from CUSA, and something like Air Force/SD State/Boise State/Colorado State from the MWC to form a 16 team "best of the G5 conference" in the AAC.

Army
Temple
Navy
ECU
USF
UCF
NIU
Tulane

SMU
Rice
Tulsa
Colorado St
Air Force
BYU
Boise St
San Diego St

 

[srru86]

Not saying it's gonna to happen; but if NIU gets in over Boise State would some folks finally realize the impact your program has on the field is not nearly as important as the number of TVs and relative affluence of the potential audience in the "Who belongs in a conference" discussion?

 

[AntiG]

Not saying it's gonna to happen; but if NIU gets in over Boise State would some folks finally realize the impact your program has on the field is not nearly as important as the number of TVs and relative affluence of the potential audience in who belongs n a conference discussion?

Well you have to think long term - there is no guaranteed that your school's program will continue to be successful. Teams of the old Big East was a perfect example - during the late 90s, Syracuse, BC and Miami were strong in football, Rutgers was absolutely terrible. In the mid-2000s, Syracuse blew chunks, Miami was mediocre, BC was mediocre, Rutgers was getting ranked. Now? Syracuse blows chunks, BC is mediocre, Miami is mediocre, Rutgers is mediocre.

In the end, institutional fit, academics and media market are the strongest factors for expansion to the top conferences as long as the program is viable. Its the reason why Southern Miss and Boise State are not likely to ever move up to the next level, but Rice and Tulane are getting considered.

 

[Shelby65]

NIU also got nixed.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Boise State's 15 minutes ran out when their HC left. They had one hell of a run (one that most schools besides the elites would kill for) but it couldn't be sustain long term due to them having no way to keep it up. For example their location, recruiting, lack of TV market, terrible academics, terrible at everything but Wrestling and Football. Their wrestling team is part of the PAC-12 btw.

 

[FanuSanu52]

Boise State's 15 minutes ran out when their HC left. They had one hell of a run (one that most schools besides the elites would kill for) but it couldn't be sustain long term due to them having no way to keep it up. For example their location, recruiting, lack of TV market, terrible academics, terrible at everything but Wrestling and Football. Their wrestling team is part of the PAC-12 btw.

I don't know if you're right or wrong in future predictions, but you are definitely wrong in identifying when their "15 minutes" ran out - they went 12-2 the first season under the new HC and won a Fiesta Bowl. The next season, 9-4 with a dominant win in the Poinsettia Bowl. And that would bring us right up to this season. So when exactly was it that they "couldn't sustain it long term" after Peterson left?

Most schools, save for the elites, would be pretty ecstatic with a "post 15 minute" era like that, too.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

I don't know if you're right or wrong in future predictions, but you are definitely wrong in identifying when their "15 minutes" ran out - they went 12-2 the first season under the new HC and won a Fiesta Bowl. The next season, 9-4 with a dominant win in the Poinsettia Bowl. And that would bring us right up to this season. So when exactly was it that they "couldn't sustain it long term" after Peterson left?

Most schools, save for the elites, would be pretty ecstatic with a "post 15 minute" era like that, too.

15 minutes of frame... no one cares anyone. They are no longer a ratings draw.

 

[FanuSanu52]

15 minutes of frame... no one cares anyone. They are no longer a ratings draw.

So they're less of a ratings draw in football because their coach left, recruiting, poor academics, and poor on-field performance in sports other than football and wrestling? Or are you revising what you were saying before?

 

[Scarlet Pride]

It doesn't translate at all. Even when they played us in NJ, barely any Uconn fans made the trip. Even when they lucked into a BCS bowl, they sold almost no tickets. Rutgers would have sold 25,000 for that same bowl game. Uconn fans only care about Basketball, they do not support or care about football at all. Their rating are piss poor in the NYC TV market and recruiting in their state just plain stinks. They are less than a handful of Power 5 players from there per year and it is really more like 1-2 per year. The BIG12 doesn't care about basketball as much as the ACC. Besides Kansas, they are a non factor and Kansas doesn't want Uconn. A LOT of schools have to turn down the BIG12 before Uconn gets in.

Big 12 is a non factor in college basketball???? Uh I guess you don't watch college basketball.

Regardless, I would be shocked if UConn is selected. My point is that they aren't really that much different than most of the teams being considered other than their location. They have better basketball than any of them. Their overall athletics are on par or better than most. And their TV market isn't that bad comparatively. Yes their football isn't very good but neither is SMU, Rice, Memphis, AF, Colorado State (in recent history), Tulane, and Temple.

Again I don't think they are going to be chosen but look at the cast of characters they are better than most (but not all).

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

So they're less of a ratings draw in football because their coach left, recruiting, poor academics, and poor on-field performance in sports other than football and wrestling? Or are you revising what you were saying before?

15 minutes of frame as far as football is dead. All of that is true, if it wasn't they wouldn't have been stuck in Group of 5 hell.

They have always sucked at most sports, which play on a lower D1 level anyway. In expectation is wrestling which is part of the Pac-12. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[AntiG]

Big 12 is a non factor in college basketball???? Uh I guess you don't watch college basketball.

Haha seriously... the B12 has Kansas, Baylor, Iowa State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, WVU and Texas - all of them strong basketball programs and annually compete for the tourney bids. Only Texas Tech and TCU are relatively mediocre in basketball.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Haha seriously... the B12 has Kansas, Baylor, Iowa State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, WVU and Texas - all of them strong basketball programs and annually compete for the tourney bids. Only Texas Tech and TCU are relatively mediocre in basketball.

It is a non-factor when picking who to add to the conference, or do you actually think it plays a huge role like it did with the ACC?

 

[Owlfan_in_North Jersey]

Been lots of changes since you visited North Broad Joe. Facilities are all in place. For football and hoops. Have had an indoor practice facility for 2-3 seasons now. Non-rev sports programs were rightfully cut by the current regime because we fielded 19 teams and we weren't generating the revenue to continue to do that. A P5 paycheck allows you to do a lot more than with annual revenues from the AAC. We have had stadium control since 2003. That's no longer an issue. Sticking point now is whether we want to drop 100 million plus dollars on a stadium next to the Liacouras Center or remaining at the Linc. FWIW, the plot of land where the stadium would sit has already been cleared. City got behind the program last year because it won. That trend can continue but TU football has to continue to do its part. Can't complain about our attendance averages for AAC games last season either. It was 33k and change I believe.......give or take 1,000. Think will get somewhere around that number for our game tomorrow against Army.

Big 12 may nix the whole thing and remain at 10. In the meantime, I'm just enjoying for once the speculation even if the possibilities remain slim and none. All I do know is that I'm very much looking forward to that series we signed with OU and OU has already agreed to play us on campus if we do indeed proceed to build. Game is going to bring a lot of excitement to Philly and if we somehow, inexplicably hit the P5 lottery and that now becomes a league game, it'll become all that much sweeter.