ADVERTISEMENT

COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

Status
Not open for further replies.
I very much apologize if this has been posted. It was shared by, of all people (although she's a scientist), Lin-Manuel Miranda's wife, Vanessa Nadal. You can go to her Twitter feed to see any comments on it. @VAMNit

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

And a 2nd one she posted that gets to things at the molecular level.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01315-7
The Erin Bromage piece was posted, but I don't think the Nature one was posted - fantastic article, thanks! Thought the section below was especially insightful. Had never really thought about the part in bold, but it really makes sense when comparing SARS-CoV-2 vs. the original SARS.

The virus’s ability to infect and actively reproduce in the upper respiratory tract was something of a surprise, given that its close genetic relative, SARS-CoV, lacks that ability. Last month, Wendtner published results8 of experiments in which his team was able to culture virus from the throats of nine people with COVID-19, showing that the virus is actively reproducing and infectious there. That explains a crucial difference between the close relatives. SARS-CoV-2 can shed viral particles from the throat into saliva even before symptoms start, and these can then pass easily from person to person. SARS-CoV was much less effective at making that jump, passing only when symptoms were full-blown, making it easier to contain.

These differences have led to some confusion about the lethality of SARS-CoV-2. Some experts and media reports describe it as less deadly than SARS-CoV because it kills about 1% of the people it infects, whereas SARS-CoV killed at roughly ten times that rate. But Perlman says that’s the wrong way to look at it. SARS-CoV-2 is much better at infecting people, but many of the infections don’t progress to the lungs. “Once it gets down in the lungs, it’s probably just as deadly,” he says.
 
New antibody testing data from Boston: approximately 10% of ~1000 asymptomatic residents (fairly randomly selected) have antibodies, meaning they were infected and never had symptoms or had very mild ones. And 25% of those with antibodies (2.5% of the population) also tested positive for the virus, via nasal swab and viral-PCR test, meaning they're asymptomatic and likely infectious. Long way to go reach herd immunity in Boston - and even in NYC, which likely has the highest antibody% in the world. Would like to see NYC redo the antibody testing, since it's been a few weeks. Also, wondering where NJ's antibody testing effort is.

This seems to pass the "sniff test" for me in comparing the data to NYC's antibody testing results, as NYC has about 2X the prevalence of antibodies (~20% as of about 4/27 wrt/when the data were collected vs. Boston's ~10% as of about 5/8 wrt/when the data were collected) while NYC had about 1.5X the number of cases as Boston, per capita on those dates; specifically, on 4/27, NYC had about 190K cases in 8.5MM (22.4K cases/1MM), while Boston on 5/8 had 10,500 cases in 0.7MM (15.0K cases/1MM). It's a little tricky being exact here, since we don't know the exact dates the antibody tests were done, but I'm using dates roughly about a week before the data were published.

https://www.boston.gov/news/results-released-antibody-and-covid-19-testing-boston-residents
 
i know the current focus is on hospitalizations and deaths, but it seems like there are a lot of potentially long-lasting detrimental effects on recovered patients. anectodotally, my cousin has been out of the hospital for weeks and he's still finding it hard to walk a mile at a slow pace. so, while herd immunity sounds great, there may be a much longer term, more expensive impact to patient health, and thus, the nation if we just let the virus run it's course.

That's a great point. And one which will gain some steam once things start to cool down more. The biggest worries after contacting CV-19 are the propensity for formation of blood clots which can cause strokes, pulmonary emboli, and heart attacks. In addition, patients like your cousin most likely had some lung damage and possible lingering fluids surrounding the lungs which will hamper his ability to take in oxygen. Thus resulting in shortness of breath with light exertion and fatigue. Your cousin should have follow up chest xrays to check the lungs and an echocardiogram to assess the heart muscle function. Other considerations such as a stress test and a pulmonary function test would be warranted as well.
 
What you want specific names? I just told you, uncle has tested twice for it. Friend who died got infected and tested positive, got better, fever went away, even talked about donating plasma, then got infected again and died.
It would be better to understand that the covid19 virus most likely lingers longer than the assumed duration period. From inception to actual symptoms to showing no signs at all lends to the possibility that it could manifest itself in the host for much longer period than anticipated. Perhaps some patients shed the virus more quickly. Some may possess an unfortunate ability to “act “ as a permanent host. Perhaps DNA or genetic mutation but that is way beyond me. Several years ago a Corona virus type winter cold had a long term lingering capability. Mucous was overly sticky and in some it lasted several months. It was not the common known cold in NJ. Good Luck and maybe we can develop a working vaccine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RU2055
Could this virus be transmitted through mosquito bites?
Unlikely, since it is a respiratory illness, not blood borne. For this virus to be transmitted via mosquitoes, it would need to be viable after being ingested by a mosquito. That does not happen with other coronaviruses.

Certainly there is a chance that this new virus could behave differently, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that it does, in regards to being spread via insect bites. Without any contrary evidence, I wouldn't worry about it.
 
Unlikely, since it is a respiratory illness, not blood borne. For this virus to be transmitted via mosquitoes, it would need to be viable after being ingested by a mosquito. That does not happen with other coronaviruses.

Certainly there is a chance that this new virus could behave differently, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that it does, in regards to being spread via insect bites. Without any contrary evidence, I wouldn't worry about it.
Don’t worry China’s working on that as we speak.
 
Unlikely, since it is a respiratory illness, not blood borne. For this virus to be transmitted via mosquitoes, it would need to be viable after being ingested by a mosquito. That does not happen with other coronaviruses.

Certainly there is a chance that this new virus could behave differently, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that it does, in regards to being spread via insect bites. Without any contrary evidence, I wouldn't worry about it.
Thanks
 
McKinsey's take on virus control, uncertainty, and economic recovery...

From my "silent partner," very good friend and former office-mate back in the early 90s, who went on to fame and fortune at McKinsey and elsewhere after getting his MBA from Wharton. Great article from McKinsey called, "Crushing Coronavirus Uncertainty: The Big Unlock for Our Economies." Based on interviews with numerous CEOs and scientific/economic thought leaders, it makes the strong case that the best economic recovery is rooted in the best virus control approach, as uncertainty is the enemy of the economy and lack of public confidence in the government's and society's ability to control the virus is what drives uncertainty.

https://www.mckinsey.com/business-f...-uncertainty-the-big-unlock-for-our-economies

I only hope the people running this country might actually pause and realize that this wasn’t written by wild eyed liberals, but mainly by fairly "conservative" (in the old school sense) economists and MBAs. The "near zero" virus approach is at least thankfully being attempted in the NE US and West Coast (1/3 of the US population), but I do fear the recalcitrant minority who don't buy the risks of the virus is large enough to torpedo the effort by not following mask-wearing and social distancing as we phase in reopening steps.

The first graphic does a great job of summarizing the various paths forward with respect to virus control effectiveness and effectiveness of economic policies towards recoveryi and how that plays out in economic impact, at least qualitatively for each, while the 2nd graphic shows the huge impact in cumulative GDP losses for scenarios with modest virus control with high uncertainty vs. strong virus control with much lower uncertainty. The excerpted concluding remarks below highlight all of this nicely and summarize how near-zero virus control is achievable and good for improving lives and livelihoods.

It does seem that near-zero-virus outcomes are possible even without running a depression-level economy. With virus spread under control, life can come back. In Hong Kong, for example, restaurants are open again. Yes, they require everyone to wear masks, limit seating to four per table, and maintain a distance between tables of two meters. Yes, there are clear rules—but just thinking about the possibility makes people long for a more normal life. That is exactly how it feels when uncertainty is crushed and confidence returns. But people will only resume their lives when they believe they are safe, not when they merely hope so.

Similarly, the economy cannot be forced to return to normal. People concerned about their safety will not go into their workplaces or flock to their favorite coffee shops and retail stores. We have seen many worker protests demanding PPE before employees would return to their jobs.

In a way, we are saying that lower virus levels are good for protecting lives (for example, you need fewer tests or can detect more with the same number of tests) and good for protecting livelihoods, as it is easier to feel safe “returning to normal.” Of course, there are many potential complications (for example, herd immunity may become the only alternative if a vaccine or better treatments fail to materialize).

The greatest difference achieving a near-zero-virus condition makes, relative to scenarios in which the virus is not fully under control, is that uncertainty is drastically lowered. Near-zero-virus packages and clear communication about the restrictions they require, along with fact-based justifications for them, encourage citizens and leaders alike to make decisions with more confidence. This, in turn, helps unlock economic recovery.


IIiafCJ.png


h36R6Fl.png
 
McKinsey's take on virus control, uncertainty, and economic recovery...

From my "silent partner," very good friend and former office-mate back in the early 90s, who went on to fame and fortune at McKinsey and elsewhere after getting his MBA from Wharton. Great article from McKinsey called, "Crushing Coronavirus Uncertainty: The Big Unlock for Our Economies." Based on interviews with numerous CEOs and scientific/economic thought leaders, it makes the strong case that the best economic recovery is rooted in the best virus control approach, as uncertainty is the enemy of the economy and lack of public confidence in the government's and society's ability to control the virus is what drives uncertainty.

https://www.mckinsey.com/business-f...-uncertainty-the-big-unlock-for-our-economies

I only hope the people running this country might actually pause and realize that this wasn’t written by wild eyed liberals, but mainly by fairly "conservative" (in the old school sense) economists and MBAs. The "near zero" virus approach is at least thankfully being attempted in the NE US and West Coast (1/3 of the US population), but I do fear the recalcitrant minority who don't buy the risks of the virus is large enough to torpedo the effort by not following mask-wearing and social distancing as we phase in reopening steps.

The first graphic does a great job of summarizing the various paths forward with respect to virus control effectiveness and effectiveness of economic policies towards recoveryi and how that plays out in economic impact, at least qualitatively for each, while the 2nd graphic shows the huge impact in cumulative GDP losses for scenarios with modest virus control with high uncertainty vs. strong virus control with much lower uncertainty. The excerpted concluding remarks below highlight all of this nicely and summarize how near-zero virus control is achievable and good for improving lives and livelihoods.

It does seem that near-zero-virus outcomes are possible even without running a depression-level economy. With virus spread under control, life can come back. In Hong Kong, for example, restaurants are open again. Yes, they require everyone to wear masks, limit seating to four per table, and maintain a distance between tables of two meters. Yes, there are clear rules—but just thinking about the possibility makes people long for a more normal life. That is exactly how it feels when uncertainty is crushed and confidence returns. But people will only resume their lives when they believe they are safe, not when they merely hope so.

Similarly, the economy cannot be forced to return to normal. People concerned about their safety will not go into their workplaces or flock to their favorite coffee shops and retail stores. We have seen many worker protests demanding PPE before employees would return to their jobs.

In a way, we are saying that lower virus levels are good for protecting lives (for example, you need fewer tests or can detect more with the same number of tests) and good for protecting livelihoods, as it is easier to feel safe “returning to normal.” Of course, there are many potential complications (for example, herd immunity may become the only alternative if a vaccine or better treatments fail to materialize).

The greatest difference achieving a near-zero-virus condition makes, relative to scenarios in which the virus is not fully under control, is that uncertainty is drastically lowered. Near-zero-virus packages and clear communication about the restrictions they require, along with fact-based justifications for them, encourage citizens and leaders alike to make decisions with more confidence. This, in turn, helps unlock economic recovery.


IIiafCJ.png


h36R6Fl.png
Summary?

Still think going for herd immunity is key. The dam is breaking on stay at home orders, lots of lawsuits are forcing states to open up:
https://thehill.com/regulation/cour...allenges-to-stay-at-home-orders-gain-momentum
 
  • Like
Reactions: bac2therac
Summary?

Still think going for herd immunity is key. The dam is breaking on stay at home orders, lots of lawsuits are forcing states to open up:
https://thehill.com/regulation/cour...allenges-to-stay-at-home-orders-gain-momentum
Stop being a tool for 5 minutes. First paragraph is a high level summary and the 2nd graphic is the money slide showing the huge economic impact if we follow your path of herd immunity, which leads to large increases in deaths/illnesses and high uncertainty fueling that impact.
 
Stop being a tool for 5 minutes. First paragraph is a high level summary and the 2nd graphic is the money slide showing the huge economic impact if we follow your path of herd immunity, which leads to large increases in deaths/illnesses and high uncertainty fueling that impact.
Why didn't you say all this in the first place? Structure your posts with an exec summary and then key insights/implications. I have a few templates to pass along.

Enjoy the beautiful weather today! :)
 
...and kill an extra 500,000-1,000,000 Americans over the next 12-24 months, assuming no cure/vaccine...
If there is no treatment/vaccine within 24 months, the virus will continue to spread and those death rates will be hit. The goal is to develop a treatment or vaccine before most of the population is infected.
 
McKinsey's take on virus control, uncertainty, and economic recovery...

From my "silent partner," very good friend and former office-mate back in the early 90s, who went on to fame and fortune at McKinsey and elsewhere after getting his MBA from Wharton. Great article from McKinsey called, "Crushing Coronavirus Uncertainty: The Big Unlock for Our Economies." Based on interviews with numerous CEOs and scientific/economic thought leaders, it makes the strong case that the best economic recovery is rooted in the best virus control approach, as uncertainty is the enemy of the economy and lack of public confidence in the government's and society's ability to control the virus is what drives uncertainty.

https://www.mckinsey.com/business-f...-uncertainty-the-big-unlock-for-our-economies

I only hope the people running this country might actually pause and realize that this wasn’t written by wild eyed liberals, but mainly by fairly "conservative" (in the old school sense) economists and MBAs. The "near zero" virus approach is at least thankfully being attempted in the NE US and West Coast (1/3 of the US population), but I do fear the recalcitrant minority who don't buy the risks of the virus is large enough to torpedo the effort by not following mask-wearing and social distancing as we phase in reopening steps.

The first graphic does a great job of summarizing the various paths forward with respect to virus control effectiveness and effectiveness of economic policies towards recoveryi and how that plays out in economic impact, at least qualitatively for each, while the 2nd graphic shows the huge impact in cumulative GDP losses for scenarios with modest virus control with high uncertainty vs. strong virus control with much lower uncertainty. The excerpted concluding remarks below highlight all of this nicely and summarize how near-zero virus control is achievable and good for improving lives and livelihoods.

It does seem that near-zero-virus outcomes are possible even without running a depression-level economy. With virus spread under control, life can come back. In Hong Kong, for example, restaurants are open again. Yes, they require everyone to wear masks, limit seating to four per table, and maintain a distance between tables of two meters. Yes, there are clear rules—but just thinking about the possibility makes people long for a more normal life. That is exactly how it feels when uncertainty is crushed and confidence returns. But people will only resume their lives when they believe they are safe, not when they merely hope so.

Similarly, the economy cannot be forced to return to normal. People concerned about their safety will not go into their workplaces or flock to their favorite coffee shops and retail stores. We have seen many worker protests demanding PPE before employees would return to their jobs.

In a way, we are saying that lower virus levels are good for protecting lives (for example, you need fewer tests or can detect more with the same number of tests) and good for protecting livelihoods, as it is easier to feel safe “returning to normal.” Of course, there are many potential complications (for example, herd immunity may become the only alternative if a vaccine or better treatments fail to materialize).

The greatest difference achieving a near-zero-virus condition makes, relative to scenarios in which the virus is not fully under control, is that uncertainty is drastically lowered. Near-zero-virus packages and clear communication about the restrictions they require, along with fact-based justifications for them, encourage citizens and leaders alike to make decisions with more confidence. This, in turn, helps unlock economic recovery.


IIiafCJ.png


h36R6Fl.png

I think this is a very good paper and discussion. The main issue I have with NJ and reopening, and as referenced by this paper is communications. Murphy has not presented a coherent reopening plan. He is coming out piece meal with each item,. There doesn't seem to be an over all plan for the state.
 
Why didn't you say all this in the first place? Structure your posts with an exec summary and then key insights/implications. I have a few templates to pass along.

Enjoy the beautiful weather today! :)

The next time you "structure" a post or use anything approaching logic will be the first time. But since you asked, if you really want it boiled down to terms you might actually understand, you and so many others are simply blinded by "supply side" thinking (open up) and are ignoring demand side economics - there simply won't be much demand if most people are uncertain and afraid and the economy will continue its slow slide into depression. This isn't a "political" argument, it's an economic one.
 
I think this is a very good paper and discussion. The main issue I have with NJ and reopening, and as referenced by this paper is communications. Murphy has not presented a coherent reopening plan. He is coming out piece meal with each item,. There doesn't seem to be an over all plan for the state.
Thanks. That's one place where I think Cuomo has done better, especially with their dashboard of 7 key metrics for each phase of the reopening. One can debate how effective and applicable the metrics are (and if there should be different numerical targets for each and/or other metrics), but they're clear and concise and certainly appear to be at least directionally logical. I'd like to see that for NJ (unless one has been issued that I missed).
 
Thanks. That's one place where I think Cuomo has done better, especially with their dashboard of 7 key metrics for each phase of the reopening. One can debate how effective and applicable the metrics are (and if there should be different numerical targets for each and/or other metrics), but they're clear and concise and certainly appear to be at least directionally logical. I'd like to see that for NJ (unless one has been issued that I missed).

Murphy has issued a set of principles but they are pretty vague with no timeline.

https://www.eastbrunswick.org/Docum...ing_Economic_Health_Through_Public_Health-PDF
 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technol...wn-totally-unreliable-buggy-mess-say-experts/

“In our commercial reality, we would fire anyone for developing code like this and any business that relied on it to produce software for sale would likely go bust.”

30 Years as a developer, I'm not sure how you can achieve NOT being able to reproduce the same outputs with the same data without actually trying to screw it up.

Many have claimed that it is almost impossible to reproduce the same results from the same data, using the same code. Scientists from the University of Edinburgh reported such an issue, saying they got different results when they used different machines, and even in some cases, when they used the same machines.
 
The next time you "structure" a post or use anything approaching logic will be the first time. But since you asked, if you really want it boiled down to terms you might actually understand, you and so many others are simply blinded by "supply side" thinking (open up) and are ignoring demand side economics - there simply won't be much demand if most people are uncertain and afraid and the economy will continue its slow slide into depression. This isn't a "political" argument, it's an economic one.
The great thing about opening up is that people can choose for themselves what they want to engage in. If you still want to stay at home, fine. If you want to go to a restaurant, fine. Etc. It's all up to you.
#freedom
 
Perfect, nice summary!
Disagree with the point, but well done. Hopefully others will learn from this.

Do you really need me to spell this out for you? Most of the country’s population has only been infected somewhere between 0-5%. What do you think would happen if the entire country had NYC levels of spread, and NYC is only at 20%.....not even close to herd immunity.
 
The great thing about opening up is that people can choose for themselves what they want to engage in. If you still want to stay at home, fine. If you want to go to a restaurant, fine. Etc. It's all up to you.
#freedom
No, it's not "great." People like you shooting for "herd immunity" don't give a shit about infecting millions of additional Americans and causing them harm or death and that's exactly what will happen when you go out in the world without masks and without practicing social distancing, especially those of you who are asymptomatic but contagious. Why would you advocate that when there's a path forward that keeps the infection rate very low, saves most of the at-risk lives, and allows most of society to return to some semblance of normal? I simply don't understand how anyone can advocate that approach.
 
  • Like
Reactions: biker7766
That's a great point. And one which will gain some steam once things start to cool down more. The biggest worries after contacting CV-19 are the propensity for formation of blood clots which can cause strokes, pulmonary emboli, and heart attacks. In addition, patients like your cousin most likely had some lung damage and possible lingering fluids surrounding the lungs which will hamper his ability to take in oxygen. Thus resulting in shortness of breath with light exertion and fatigue. Your cousin should have follow up chest xrays to check the lungs and an echocardiogram to assess the heart muscle function. Other considerations such as a stress test and a pulmonary function test would be warranted as well.

There is no doubt in my mind that I've suffered some kind of lung damage or perhaps developed some blockage. Almost a month and a half since testing positive, suffering, and now "recovered", I still can't go up a one floor stair without feeling extreme shortness of breath with my chest feeling like it's burning. Any extreme physical activity is a no no. This isn't how a fairly fit 46 year old should be. Thankfully, xray, ekg and stress test said lung and heart were ok. But doc has scheduled me for echocardiogram - he's also considering doing a nuclear stress test.
 
There is no doubt in my mind that I've suffered some kind of lung damage or perhaps developed some blockage. Almost a month and a half since testing positive, suffering, and now "recovered", I still can't go up a one floor stair without feeling extreme shortness of breath with my chest feeling like it's burning. Any extreme physical activity is a no no. This isn't how a fairly fit 46 year old should be. Thankfully, xray, ekg and stress test said lung and heart were ok. But doc has scheduled me for echocardiogram - he's also considering doing a nuclear stress test.
I hope that you feel better. Sorry for the losses of those close to you.
 
There is no doubt in my mind that I've suffered some kind of lung damage or perhaps developed some blockage. Almost a month and a half since testing positive, suffering, and now "recovered", I still can't go up a one floor stair without feeling extreme shortness of breath with my chest feeling like it's burning. Any extreme physical activity is a no no. This isn't how a fairly fit 46 year old should be. Thankfully, xray, ekg and stress test said lung and heart were ok. But doc has scheduled me for echocardiogram - he's also considering doing a nuclear stress test.
When I had pneumonia at 42 the pulmonary specialist told me I could expect to feel tired, have trouble breathing with exertion from climbing stairs or attempting to do anything aerobic , and yes I also had what you term “burning”. This is drastically much more severe so I wish you luck. I did escape what they thought might be endocarditis ... that was scary... The warm weather days like yesterday and today will help with your lungs. Don’t be down ... Keep Chopping !!!!
 
No, it's not "great." People like you shooting for "herd immunity" don't give a shit about infecting millions of additional Americans and causing them harm or death and that's exactly what will happen when you go out in the world without masks and without practicing social distancing, especially those of you who are asymptomatic but contagious. Why would you advocate that when there's a path forward that keeps the infection rate very low, saves most of the at-risk lives, and allows most of society to return to some semblance of normal? I simply don't understand how anyone can advocate that approach.
What was the phrase? "Don't let the perfect get in the way of the great?". 99.8% will live. The curve was flattened, you can see for yourself. Enjoy summer in your bubble.
 
I agree. That's why I am wondering if it is possible for the virus to linger in our system but then reactivates when our immune system weakens. I am not sure it's a black and white scenario of you either do or don't have it. But more like having it but our t-cells, NK cells, et al keeping it in check. This constant battle going on between our immune system and the virus is in play, just like the cold virus, which is a relative of cov2. In essence, testing results depends on who's winning.
Here’s another story about 13 sailors who tested positive again after having tested negative twice.

from the article:

These eight sailors had previously tested positive and were removed from the ship in order to self-quarantine. They had all tested negative twice before being allowed back on board before this latest incident of testing positive again for the virus.

This latest development is in addition to five other sailors aboard the ship that CNN reported earlier this week who had also again tested positive after being thought to be clear of the virus.

The carrier is heavily screening crew members for reports of symptoms. Some of the now 13 sailors who have retested positive in fact had reportedd symptoms to the medical crew, the official said.

Politico was the first to report on the eight additional sailors.

The official said it is not clear if sailors have somehow been re-infected or if very low levels of the virus have remained in their bodies and testing had not caught it.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/16/politics/uss-theodore-roosevelt-sailors-coronavirus/index.html
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT