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COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

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Even with the lag, deaths are way down. Viruses mutate to survive.
It's true, but the spike in cases is very recent. Deaths are already starting to trend up in states that have seen recent spikes in cases. If those cases continue to go up, the deaths will follow in that direction.

Maybe it has mutated, maybe it is weaker, but the deaths are going to increase. So not as bad, but still bad.
 
***Not according to transcripts from CDC public telebriefing call @2/26/2020 with reporters:

"The U.S. has been implementing an aggressive containment strategy that requires detecting, tracking, and isolating all cases. As much as possible and preventing more introduction of disease notably at points of entry. We’ve restricted travel into the United States while also issuing extensive travel advisories for countries currently experiencing community spread. Our travel notices are changing almost daily. We’ve also enacted the first quarantine of this scale in the U.S. And are supporting the state department and HHS in repatriating citizens from high-risk areas. We are doing this with the goal of slowing the introduction of this new virus into the U.S. And buying us more time to prepare. To date, our containment strategies have been largely successful. As a result, we have very few cases in the United States and no spread in the community. But as more and more countries experience community spread, successful containment at our borders becomes harder and harder. Ultimately, we expect we will see community spread in this country. It’s not so much a question of if this will happen anymore but rather more a question of exactly when this will happen and how many people in this country will have severe illness. We will maintain for as long as practical a dual approach where we continue measures to contain this disease but also employ strategies to minimize the impact on our communities. At this time, there’s no vaccine to protect against this new virus and no medications approved to treat it. Non-pharmaceutical interventions or NPIs will be the most important tools in our response to this virus. What these interventions look like at the community level will vary depending on local conditions. What is appropriate for one community seeing local transmission won’t necessarily be appropriate for a community where no local transmission has occurred. This parallel, proactive approach of containment and mitigation will delay the emergence of community spread in the United States while simultaneously reducing its ultimate impact. To illustrate how this works, I’d like to share with you some of the specific recommendations made in the document I mentioned last Friday including some of the steps we would take here if needed. This document is called Community Mitigation Guidelines to Prevent Pandemic Influenza United States 2017. It draws from the findings of nearly 200 journal articles written between 1990 and 2016. This document looked at what can be done at the individual and community level during a pandemic when we don’t have a vaccine or proven medical treatment for the disease. We’re looking at data since 2016 and adjusting our recommendations to the specific circumstances of COVID-19. But this posted document provides a frame work for our response strategy. Based on what is known now, we would implement these NPI measures in a very aggressive, proactive way as he have been doing with our containment efforts.

There are three categories of NPIs. Personal NPIs
which include personal protective measures you can take every day and personal protective measures reserved for pandemics. Community NPIs which include social distancing measures designed to keep people who are sick away from others. And school closures and dismissals. And environmental NPIs which includes surface cleaning measures. NPIs routinely recommended for prevention of respiratory virus transmission include everyday personal protective measures. These are preventive measures we recommend during influenza season. These NPIs are recommended during a pandemic regardless of the severity level of the respiratory illness. Personal protective measures reserved for pandemics include voluntary home quarantine of household members who have been exposed to someone they live with who is sick. Now I’d like to talk through some examples of what community NPIs look like. These are practical measures that can help limit exposure by reducing exposure in community settings. Students in smaller groups or in a severe pandemic, closing schools and using internet-based teleschooling to continue education. For adults, businesses can replace in-person meetings with video or telephone conferences and increase teleworking options. On a larger scale, communities may need to modify, postpone, or cancel mass gatherings. Looking at how to increase telehealth services and delaying elective surgery. The implementation of environmental NPIs would require everyone to consistently clean frequently touched surfaces and objects at home, at school, at work, and at large gatherings. Local communities will need to look at which NPIs to implement and when based on how transmission and disease is and what can be done locally. This will require flexibility and adaptations as disease progresses and new information becomes available. Some of these measures are better than none. But the maximum benefit occurs when the elements are layered upon each other. Some community level interventions that may be most effective in reducing the spread of a new virus like school closures are also the most likely to be associated with unwanted consequences and further disruptions."

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0225-cdc-telebriefing-covid-19.html

So....who or what were Cuomo, Mayor Wilhelm and the NYC Director of Health Orixis Barbot listening to in Feb and March?

I know that's what was communicated, but none of that means squat if the first step is not being done - detecting, which means testing. Early in a pandemic, by far the most important activity is testing. This was written on 2/26 when, in retrospect by numerous analyses, we had tens of thousands of cases in NY/NJ. And testing, especially early on, is 100% owned by the Federal Government and it was an abject failure as I've described.

You also don't appear to read any of my posts on this, but I'll repeat. NY/NJ combined had 1 positive case and zero deaths through 3/2, because there was a grand total of about 3 tests run by then, about a week after this communication. NY/NJ then slowly ramped up testing, with NY not hitting 1000 tests per day (when we should've been at 20,000 per day) until 3/13 and NJ not hitting 500 tests per day until 3/22 (and should've been at at least 10,000/day).

If the authorities don't know anything about who's infected and where transmissions are occurring then it's impossible for them to do the rest of the steps in the pandemic playbook sequence, i.e., tracing/isolating positive cases and contacts of positive cases. In fact it was so bad that we were flying completely blind and that is a death sentence in a pandemic - and didn't start to understand the magnitude of the explosive growth until about mid-March, really leaving shut downs as the only intervention left to NY/NJ (and CT, MA, PA, DE, RI), since nobody (other than me and a few others back then) was recommending masks.

Even on 3/16, when schools, bars, restaurants, casinos etc. shut down in NY/NJ/CT, NJ only had 178 cases via testing and NY only had 967, when in truth there were likely 50-100X that many already, as borne out by the fact that only 2 weeks later, NJ had 17,000 cases (95X) and NY had 76,000 (79X), despite most of the area being shut down by 3/16 (and formally shut down a few days later).

That growth rate was insane, which is why I've said we're never going to see that anywhere else in the US again, i.e., TX/FL aren't going to go from their 1000-2000 case/day baseline from recently to 50-100K cases per day (or at least we better hope to hell they aren't). That's why they're not likely going to have death rates anywhere near what ours were (even if death rates weren't likely decreasing some due to procedures/treatments), but they'll likely still be substantial starting soon.

FL, TX, AZ, GA, CA and many other states are having more cases per day now than we had cumulatively on 3/16, yet we were shutting everything down and those states are debating asking people to wear masks and maybe slow down reopenings (except CA, which has a mask requirement now). It's also why comparing the outbreaks in the NE US states to the rest of the US and saying the rest of the US did "better" is very unfair.
 
I have to cut DeBlasio some slack. There is no way he knew what was coming. No way he was properly informed.

BUT.

He played politics, Trump Zigged on China, so he Zagged, he embraced the chinese festival, he pushed the narrative all was well, everyone get out there and enjoy.

A purely political move that completely blew up in his face.

I think it was more unfortunate then a terrible call, but it is very much on his record. The same needs to also be said for the top of the food chain as well.
DeBlasio is a blowhard and I thought NYC should've shut down even earlier than they did, as I said back then, but to criticize him or Cuomo for encouraging people to enjoy the City, when there were 0.0 cases and deaths isn't particularly irresponsible.
 
Wow, more proof Covid 19 is mutating down.
That's not "proof" of jack shit - have already covered this, unless you have some new, compelling scientific data you've been hiding. Do you think by repeating wrong things often enough anyone will believe you? Do you ever respond when you've been shown to be completely wrong, like on the deaths by falls for people under 65, earlier today?
 
It's true, but the spike in cases is very recent. Deaths are already starting to trend up in states that have seen recent spikes in cases. If those cases continue to go up, the deaths will follow in that direction.

Maybe it has mutated, maybe it is weaker, but the deaths are going to increase. So not as bad, but still bad.
We’ll know in 2 to 3 weeks. Hoping for the best.
 
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That's not "proof" of jack shit - have already covered this, unless you have some new, compelling scientific data you've been hiding. Do you think by repeating wrong things often enough anyone will believe you? Do you ever respond when you've been shown to be completely wrong, like on the deaths by falls for people under 65, earlier today?
Do you ever have a positive post?
 
Some good news on tocilizumab, an IL-6 receptor antagonist (aimed at reducing the "cytokine storm" of respiratory over-inflammation seen in many patients), which was shown to reduce mortality by 45% in patients with severe COVID symptoms in this observationally controlled (not placebo-controlled, so not the highest standard) trial run out of the U of Michigan. This is just a preprint, though, so the usual caveats, especially as the treatment group was slightly younger and slightly less likely to have underlying pulmonary disease (so the effect might be exaggerated a bit), but I'm guessing this might be enough for this to become part of standard care for such patients, despite the finding that it also doubled the risk of superinfection.

Question: Can therapy with the IL-6 receptor antagonist tocilizumab improve outcomes in patients with severe COVID-19 illness requiring mechanical ventilation?

Findings: In this observational, controlled study of 154 patients, receipt of tocilizumab was associated with a 45% reduction in the hazard of death, despite twice the frequency of superinfection (54% vs 26%), both of which were statistically significant findings.

Meaning: Tocilizumab therapy may improve survival in patients with COVID-19 illness requiring mechanical ventilation. These results can inform clinical practice pending the results of randomized clinical trials


https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.29.20117358v1.full.pdf

Not to inturupt with all the arguing about is or isn't it spiking and blah, blah, blah.

I am a just a computer guy, but this study sounds positive and Tocilizumab reduces mortality in the sever cases.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(20)30173-9/fulltext

Thanks for the post. This is excellent news! Corroborates much of what was seen in the UM study, discussed in the post above where mortality reductions of about 45% were seen severely ill patients treated with tocilizumab (the hardest word to spell I've ever encountered, lol). However, both studies were retrospective observational studies (not controlled/randomized), so some skepticism is still warranted - especially since, in this study, the "standard of care" comparator included HCQ, which some studies have shown could actually increase mortality. We really need those randomized/controlled studies ASAP (not sure when they'll be completed).
 
nope he doesnt, yet without any scientific data he has been talking about Florida for 3 months now
Now you're just trolling, which you said you didn't do. Show me any posts I've made about Florida cases before the past few weeks other than probably to say they would be likely to go up if they reopened prematurely. Which has happened. I've also made plenty of positive posts, especially about certain treatments and my hopes on antibody cocktails and vaccines.
 
This was an older guy, 60ish, and he had it in Febuary, says he still can't go to the bathroom without feeling out of breath.
And what was his health status prior? Any pre conditions? He is more the exception than the rule at least that is what we are told... if he had cytokine storm than perhaps yes but the vast majority don’t . He was one of the unlucky ones but like pneumonia it can take months to get back to feeling normal...the lungs don’t recover quickly...sometimes never especially as we reach 50-70’s...
 
Do you ever have a positive post?
Show me something to be positive about other than what's going on with improving treatments and the likelihood of even better antibody cocktails and eventually vaccines. I'm happy about where we've gotten to in the NE US, but at a horrible cost, which was mostly avoidable if we had been prepared, so hard to be "happy" about that. And the direction many states are going in, after reopening too soon and masks still not being recommended by the Feds to slow transmissions are pretty depressing, since we're likely going to have a lot more deaths that could've been prevented. Does that not anger you in any way?
 
Show me something to be positive about other than what's going on with improving treatments and the likelihood of even better antibody cocktails and eventually vaccines. I'm happy about where we've gotten to in the NE US, but at a horrible cost, which was mostly avoidable if we had been prepared, so hard to be "happy" about that. And the direction many states are going in, after reopening too soon and masks still not being recommended by the Feds to slow transmissions are pretty depressing, since we're likely going to have a lot more deaths that could've been prevented. Does that not anger you in any way?
RU - deaths are going down every week even with record cases. That’s good news. You know the history of Coronavirus- SARS 1 and MERS both mutated down. Virology 101 tells us viruses mutate to survive, correct?
 
wait now you are basically saying that masks are almost as good as a vaccine..yes i know you didnt say it but you basically did say it when you said...near zero cases and death rates..wow the propaganda is strong here...remember the WHO, CDC, and Fauci all very very contradictory on masks throughout, who knew that they were killing people all along...tens of thousands because they said masks didnt matter

i am not saying masks do not matter, however your take that masks are basically everything i am going to call out, the truth lies somewhere in between
The misinformation the country was given by the task force, which included “ our most venerated “ Dr. Tony Fauci , only led to the mask issue people had going forward...” no you don’t need to wear a mask...yes you do need to wear a mask “...for God sakes wear a mask... the thing what has gotten people frustrated and angry is whose responsibility was it to make sure the states had PPE, ventilators, and whatever else to help during a pandemic...when was this PLAN put into effect...during Obama or after?... I have heard it several different ways... and who is responsible the state and it’s governing body or the Federal government which we will include all working parts... Congress, Senate, President and administration.
 
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DeBlasio is a blowhard and I thought NYC should've shut down even earlier than they did, as I said back then, but to criticize him or Cuomo for encouraging people to enjoy the City, when there were 0.0 cases and deaths isn't particularly irresponsible.
If people are going to blame the Fed and President then Cuomo -DiBlasio don’t get a pass... they all knew what was on the horizon.
 
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RU - deaths are going down every week even with record cases. That’s good news. You know the history of Coronavirus- SARS 1 and MERS both mutated down. Virology 101 tells us viruses mutate to survive, correct?

SARS mutated, but it's not "proven" that that resulted in the end of the virus being transmitted. The original SARS never had the transmissibility that SARS-CoV-2 has and mitigations/controls are more likely to have resulted in snuffing out SARS. And MERS was even less transmissible, so it was easier to control (and resulted in far fewer infections/deaths than SARS); it mutated well after the initial small epidemic in the Middle East.

There is currently zero evidence that there has been weakening of SARS-CoV-2. In fact common sense says it's doing quite well with transmissions given greater global infection rates, plus "only" 1% or less of infected humans die from it, so it's not like there are selection pressures to weaken the virus at this time. Plus there are very logical explanations for reduced deaths in the US and other developed countries: better medical procedures and some moderately effective treatments; in addition, in the context of the spikes we're seeing in the US now, we haven't yet reached the time where we would normally see deaths increase (that will be likely in the first week of July). Let's see where we are in 2 weeks.
 
Now you're just trolling, which you said you didn't do. Show me any posts I've made about Florida cases before the past few weeks other than probably to say they would be likely to go up if they reopened prematurely. Which has happened. I've also made plenty of positive posts, especially about certain treatments and my hopes on antibody cocktails and vaccines.

you and others talked about Florida back in April
 
wait now you are basically saying that masks are almost as good as a vaccine..yes i know you didnt say it but you basically did say it when you said...near zero cases and death rates..wow the propaganda is strong here...remember the WHO, CDC, and Fauci all very very contradictory on masks throughout, who knew that they were killing people all along...tens of thousands because they said masks didnt matter

i am not saying masks do not matter, however your take that masks are basically everything i am going to call out, the truth lies somewhere in between

We dont have a vaccine and we dont have a cure for Covid. Based on that statement, masks are actually better at this point than a vaccine. What better way to prevent the spread of a virus that to not let it escape into the open air and infect others? It's basic and it works effectively.

Masks are huge. Fauci is on record as saying his initial comments were intended to keep PPE in the hands of health professionals, if you look at some of his initial comments, he is actually saying it then as well. I imagine the CDC was following the same playbook.,

The WHO? I have little faith in those guys and thus give little concern.

The attacks on Fauci are the other side of the media playing games. Don't fall for it. Has he been perfect? No, but he is absolutely someone I trust on the matter.

I get the feeling Fauci back tracked to cover his tushie. It took one and a half to two months for him to endorse masks/face coverings. During that time he didn't make and recommendations that I am aware of telling people to use face masks. Him and Birx f'ed up royally on this and it was called out multiple times here on this board during that time. Unfortunately, because they were in such a highly appointed positions, people relied on their "expertise" and took their poor advice...thus contributing to the spread of CV-19.
 
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I know that's what was communicated, but none of that means squat if the first step is not being done - detecting, which means testing. Early in a pandemic, by far the most important activity is testing. This was written on 2/26 when, in retrospect by numerous analyses, we had tens of thousands of cases in NY/NJ. And testing, especially early on, is 100% owned by the Federal Government and it was an abject failure as I've described.

You also don't appear to read any of my posts on this, but I'll repeat. NY/NJ combined had 1 positive case and zero deaths through 3/2, because there was a grand total of about 3 tests run by then, about a week after this communication. NY/NJ then slowly ramped up testing, with NY not hitting 1000 tests per day (when we should've been at 20,000 per day) until 3/13 and NJ not hitting 500 tests per day until 3/22 (and should've been at at least 10,000/day).

If the authorities don't know anything about who's infected and where transmissions are occurring then it's impossible for them to do the rest of the steps in the pandemic playbook sequence, i.e., tracing/isolating positive cases and contacts of positive cases. In fact it was so bad that we were flying completely blind and that is a death sentence in a pandemic - and didn't start to understand the magnitude of the explosive growth until about mid-March, really leaving shut downs as the only intervention left to NY/NJ (and CT, MA, PA, DE, RI), since nobody (other than me and a few others back then) was recommending masks.

Even on 3/16, when schools, bars, restaurants, casinos etc. shut down in NY/NJ/CT, NJ only had 178 cases via testing and NY only had 967, when in truth there were likely 50-100X that many already, as borne out by the fact that only 2 weeks later, NJ had 17,000 cases (95X) and NY had 76,000 (79X), despite most of the area being shut down by 3/16 (and formally shut down a few days later).

That growth rate was insane, which is why I've said we're never going to see that anywhere else in the US again, i.e., TX/FL aren't going to go from their 1000-2000 case/day baseline from recently to 50-100K cases per day (or at least we better hope to hell they aren't). That's why they're not likely going to have death rates anywhere near what ours were (even if death rates weren't likely decreasing some due to procedures/treatments), but they'll likely still be substantial starting soon.

FL, TX, AZ, GA, CA and many other states are having more cases per day now than we had cumulatively on 3/16, yet we were shutting everything down and those states are debating asking people to wear masks and maybe slow down reopenings (except CA, which has a mask requirement now). It's also why comparing the outbreaks in the NE US states to the rest of the US and saying the rest of the US did "better" is very unfair.

Haven't seen this posted yet, but the Times put together a really insightful set of animations showing the growth of the outbreak from the first few cases through the ~1000 unknown in the US by 2/15 to the tens of thousands unknown by 3/1, especially in the NYC area. Basically showing graphically what I've been saying. Worth watching/reading.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...tion=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article
 
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If the fatality rate is 1% and we've had 125,000 deaths already, wouldn't that suggest 12,500,000 actual cases? Would have to have a lot of cases where folks didn't realize it for that to be true. Also, have read recently that more young people are being infected, and more seriously, than before. You got any info on that, Numb3rs?
 
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And what was his health status prior? Any pre conditions? He is more the exception than the rule at least that is what we are told... if he had cytokine storm than perhaps yes but the vast majority don’t . He was one of the unlucky ones but like pneumonia it can take months to get back to feeling normal...the lungs don’t recover quickly...sometimes never especially as we reach 50-70’s...
Don't know his details, but I've known him as a customer for awhile seems like a fairly healthy guy.

I'm not sure his case is that rare though. Deaths under 65? yes that seems rare, but we do see a lot of people younger then the high risk death group in hospitals.
 
If the fatality rate is 1% and we've had 125,000 deaths already, wouldn't that suggest 12,500,000 actual cases? Would have to have a lot of cases where folks didn't realize it for that to be true. Also, have read recently that more young people are being infected, and more seriously, than before. You got any info on that, Numb3rs?


This is definitely the case. Especially in the NE where the virus hit but we did not have the testing to find it.

And it's still happening now as people, especially younger ones have the virus, and are either asymptomatic, or have a mild case and do not get tested.

So yeah our official case #'s are definitely lower then the actual #'s.
 
I get the feeling Fauci back tracked to cover his tushie. It took one and a half to two months for him to endorse masks/face coverings. During that time he didn't make and recommendations that I am aware of telling people to use face masks. Him and Birx f'ed up royally on this and it was called out multiple times here on this board during that time. Unfortunately, because they were in such a highly appointed positions, people relied on their "expertise" and took their poor advice...thus contributing to the spread of CV-19.

I disagree. There is a clip from pretty early on where he says something along the lines of "unless you are in the heat of an ongoing pandemic, you don't need a mask", which implies you do need a mask if you are in the heat of the pandemic, and then he closed by admitting his comments were indeed an effort to keep PPE for health pros. He said it even then.

Now, did he underestimate where we were in the pandemic at that point? Would he have said NYC should where masks while other areas of the country like Oklahoma need not, had he known where we were at that time? Did he underestimate just how contagious this thing is, and in fact we should be wearing masks even if your area is currently not in the throes? I think there is something to all those questions, where we can say Fauci wasn't dead on with his initial comments.

But we do know hospitals had massive PPE shortages, nurses reusing masks, hospitals looking at mask sanitization as an alternative to new masks. We also know people were hoarding masks(and toilet paper). So the fact that he said, way back when, yeah I'm saying this in part to keep PPE in the hands of health pros? I think the logic checks out.

Edit: rewatching an interview from early April now. I think my questioning of what Fauci new then is on shaky ground, as he is recommended a complete stay at home order(kind of forgot it even happened, as I worked throughout). So he was certainly not underestimating this thing.
 
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Wrong again - becoming a habit - why do you make stuff up? I made no posts about Florida in April; nothing until about mid-May. Other than the NE US and CA/WA over the first 6 weeks, I rarely talked about any states. I talked a ton more about other countries and the US, overall.

It wasnt April for you..others it was..extreme slamming of De Santis and Florida and even you in yourvposts on May 8 and May 14 daid cases and deaths woukd rise there soon..2-3 weeks you said which would have been end of May. Instead the rises in cases didn't happen until the 3rd week in June and we have no idea what the deaths will end up

My point is lets stop slamming red states to push an agenda when the #1 killer was the nursing home situation
 
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April 3rd Fauci interview. So not at the very beginning, but still early on and touching on the points I mentioned.



Is left wing media reveling in panic porn? Absolutely.

Is the right wing media(maybe moreso the extreme right wing internet community) engaged in an unwarranted disinformation campaign regarding Fauci? Absolutely.

Fauci even touches on the Un American aspect of forcing people to wear masks.

The attacks on this guy shine a very negative light on where we are in our political discourse.
 
I disagree. There is a clip from pretty early on where he says something along the lines of "unless you are in the heat of an ongoing pandemic, you don't need a mask", which implies you do need a mask if you are in the heat of the pandemic, and then he closed by admitting his comments were indeed an effort to keep PPE for health pros. He said it even then.

Now, did he underestimate where we were in the pandemic at that point? Would he have said NYC should where masks while other areas of the country like Oklahoma need not, had he known where we were at that time? Did he underestimate just how contagious this thing is, and in fact we should be wearing masks even if your area is currently not in the throes? I think there is something to all those questions, where we can say Fauci wasn't dead on with his initial comments.

But we do know hospitals had massive PPE shortages, nurses reusing masks, hospitals looking at mask sanitization as an alternative to new masks. We also know people were hoarding masks(and toilet paper). So the fact that he said, way back when, yeah I'm saying this in part to keep PPE in the hands of health pros? I think the logic checks out.

Edit: rewatching an interview from early April now. I think my questioning of what Fauci new then is on shaky ground, as he is recommended a complete stay at home order(kind of forgot it even happened, as I worked throughout). So he was certainly not underestimating this thing.

Watch the video above. "..masks are important to prevent someone who is infected to prevent them from infecting someone else...right now people shouldn't be walking around with masks....there's no reason to be walking around with a mask...when you are in the middle of an outbreak it might make people feel better and it might even block a droplet.." He does talk about the shortage of masks, that is true. But those quotes are hogwash when taking into account the most basic premises of preventing virus transmission. We knew this virus was coming, we knew about asymptomatic transmission, and we know the effectiveness in using barrier devices to prevent spread of communicable diseases. Again, it's unfortunate he said these words and it's unfortunate too many people listened to them. This was a big swing and a miss which would have greatly reduced the amount of cases and deaths, and which by the way, would have reduced admissions along with the usage of masks by healthcare workers. It took them over another month I believe to come up with the brilliant recommendation for the public to use a protective face covering/mask.
 
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More Fauci clips from early on. Doesn't touch on masks here, and I think there are some remarks which you can question, but I do not question his overall expertise.

 
Watch the video above. "..masks are important to prevent someone who is infected to prevent them from infecting someone else...right now people shouldn't be walking around with masks....there's no reason to be walking around with a mask...when you are in the middle of an outbreak it might make people feel better and it might even block a droplet.." He does talk about the shortage of masks, that is true. But those quotes are hogwash when taking into account the most basic premises of preventing virus transmission. We knew this virus was coming, we knew about asymptomatic transmission, and we know the effectiveness in using barrier devices to prevent spread of communicable diseases. Again, it's unfortunate he said these words and it's unfortunate too many people listened to them. This was a big swing and a miss which would have greatly reduced the amount of cases and deaths, and which by the way, would have reduced admissions along with the usage of masks by healthcare workers. It took them over another month I believe to come up with the brilliant recommendation for the public to use a protective face covering/mask.

"masks are important to prevent someone who is infected to prevent them from infecting someone else"

What am I missing?
 
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"when you think masks you should think of health care providers needing them"

"Exactly, that's the point, it can lead to a shortage of people who really need it"

And there was a shortage at the health care level. A pretty extreme one.
 
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"masks are important to prevent someone who is infected to prevent them from infecting someone else"

What am I missing?

You are missing asymptomatic cases, presymptomatic transmission and asymptomatic transmission infecting throngs of people. This is part of the big crux behind the spread of this virus in our country. People were spreading this around unknowingly for two days up to fourteen days. Expotential spread could have been halted. Please read and take into account all of those quotes not just one. Many don't make sense. And this isnt hindsight being 20/20. We knew it was coming, we knew the virulence and ease of spread...yet didn't follow basic guidelines to reduce transmission to others.
 
If people are going to blame the Fed and President then Cuomo -DiBlasio don’t get a pass... they all knew what was on the horizon.
I feel this is more a top down issue.

Who should have a better handle on how a virus is progressing in a foreign country, the President or a city Mayor?
 
"when you think masks you should think of health care providers needing them"

"Exactly, that's the point, it can lead to a shortage of people who really need it"

And there was a shortage at the health care level. A pretty extreme one.

But most people arent wearing those kind....fact is the cdc..who..and fauci are failures on this BIGLY...if the whole mask thing is true. You can blame Trump for alot of things but the mask issue really isn't one of them. There are so called experts handling this
 
You are missing asymptomatic cases, presymptomatic transmission and asymptomatic transmission infecting throngs of people. This is part of the big crux behind the spread of this virus in our country. People were spreading this around unknowingly for two days up to fourteen days. Expotential spread could have been halted. Please read and take into account all of those quotes not just one. Many don't make sense. And this isnt hindsight being 20/20. We knew it was coming, we knew the virulence and ease of spread...yet didn't follow basic guidelines to reduce transmission to others.
Fine, I think it is fair to say he was unaware how infected the country was at that time, I think it may also be fair to say he was unaware about the level of asymptomatic or presymptomatic transmission.

But he is also flat out saying masks are important and we need to make sure health care workers have enough.

I think people forget there was (and still is for gods sake) a shortage of masks.

People also forget that people were hoarding toilet paper.

I think the criticisms of Fauci regarding those comments are super flimsy. The fact that people are using those comments to now act like masks are not useful? Ridiculous.
 
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But most people arent wearing those kind....fact is the cdc..who..and fauci are failures on this BIGLY...if the whole mask thing is true. You can blame Trump for alot of things but the mask issue really isn't one of them. There are so called experts handling this
Remember the toilet paper shortage?

Also remember a large segment of the population did not, and still do not want to wear masks. Some are pointing to those initial comments, (where he says masks are effective, but at that time not necessary), as reason to not wear masks right now, and it's childish.
 
Remember the toilet paper shortage?

Also remember a large segment of the population did not, and still do not want to wear masks. Some are pointing to those initial comments, (where he says masks are effective, but at that time not necessary), as reason to not wear masks right now, and it's childish.

The problem here is one of communications, once trust is lost it's hard to get it back and Fauci and Trump lost this message early by Fauci's comments on masks not being needed by the general public and Trump's refusal to wear a mask later on.
 
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