Fire Schiano!!!
- Thread starter mikemarc1
- Start date
Gavin Sidwar pro style quarterback decomits from Rutgers. Schiano letting it slip away . Time to go Greg
Fan expectations, whatever they are, are always totally useless.
Only way fans can actually change things is to contribute NIL funding. Contribute enough NIL and all of a sudden, you’ll see magically improved coaching. And if the coaching still isn’t good enough, donate millions to funding new coaching hires until you find one you like. While also still donating millions to NIL so the coach you paid for has the players to make it work.
I’m not telling people they should donate their money. Donate or don’t donate. Is none of my business how people chose to spend their money. I don’t care.
Just saying that fan expectations are meaningless. Only money will matter.
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It’s helpful but not a panacea nor a guarantee of anything.
Phil Knight has donated literally a billion dollars to Oregon and tens to hundreds of millions to athletics. They have not won a national championship in MBB or football despite all that. That’s decades of support but really only a couple of playoff appearances in the Kelly/Helfrich tenure. For all the money he’s donated you’d think they’d have a lot more to show for it. This may finally be the year.
It’s just as likely if not more so to see a lot of waste of money than realization of top line results as we see many examples across the landscape every year.
It surely doesn't guarantee a title, or even the 4 team playoff. But Oregon has been ranked in the Top 25 for at least part of the year for the last 25 years straight. And usually at year's end.
For the 10s to hundreds of millions of dollars he’s donated that doesn’t seem like much. They should be like a top 10-15 team at the end of the year every year for that much money, that’s not even Saban like results. A coach like Saban is the magic wand not the amount of money.
Auburn has spent 36M in buyouts on their last two coaches all within the span of a couple years. Not even including Freeze’s salary or NIL. They’re 3-5/1-4 currently and having trouble fielding a qb.
You can spend tons of money and still be in a lousy situation in any given year or over multiple years.
Narrow the scope to the last 15 years it's Top 10 in 12 out of 15.
In the last 15 years, looking at wiki, I see 5 years (2 Helfich, 1 Taggart, 2 Cristobal) they weren’t ranked in the top 15 at the end of the year and 4 of those years not even finished ranked at all.
Again Oregon is essentially in a class of one when it comes to athletic donations but their results aren’t a class of one. Money is not some magic wand that so many think it is. We see lots of waste all over the landscape every year.
The class of one in actual results is if you by chance happen to land on that magic wand coach like Saban.
First.. is it really year 5 for Schiano?
He was hired in December of 2019 and had to do the CoVid year.. in New Jersey... one of the worst lockdown states.
It's more like year 4 where he legitimately got us to a bowl game in year 3 and in year 4 we suffered a lot of injuries. Come to think of it.. didn't that happen in year 4 of GS 1.0? Where we had that homecoming day drunk driver take out our DBs, sending us on a 5-game losing streak to end the season and eliminate us from bowl contention?
In year 5, GS1.0 got us to a bowl game. In Year 6.. we had a great season... best ever.
I think this is really year 4 of GS2.0 and GS still has time to produce positive results. He already has, just last year.
Also, IIRC, In 2003, year 3 of GS1.0, lots of clowns on this board were saying teh exact same things I see being said today. Gs cannot get it done. We need to fire him and start over. They were dead wrong then and, despite the job being tougher now, I think they are dead wrong now.
He was hired in December of 2019 and had to do the CoVid year.. in New Jersey... one of the worst lockdown states.
It's more like year 4 where he legitimately got us to a bowl game in year 3 and in year 4 we suffered a lot of injuries. Come to think of it.. didn't that happen in year 4 of GS 1.0? Where we had that homecoming day drunk driver take out our DBs, sending us on a 5-game losing streak to end the season and eliminate us from bowl contention?
In year 5, GS1.0 got us to a bowl game. In Year 6.. we had a great season... best ever.
I think this is really year 4 of GS2.0 and GS still has time to produce positive results. He already has, just last year.
Also, IIRC, In 2003, year 3 of GS1.0, lots of clowns on this board were saying teh exact same things I see being said today. Gs cannot get it done. We need to fire him and start over. They were dead wrong then and, despite the job being tougher now, I think they are dead wrong now.
True enough. But they go too far NOW.. right? Hell, I was a critic after the Washington game too. We got outplayed and it seemed our gameplan handcuffed us. But that is legitimate criticism rather than this doom and gloom which is designed purely to say that firing Schiano would fix the team... heal the injured... halt teh rising seas.. stop climate change.
The goal of the loudest critics today is not to improve teh team.. it is to INJURE Greg Schiano and get him fired. They use the current bad results and the illusion that some new unnamed coach would bring great success in order to get Schiano fired.
That legitimate critics who truly want what is best for this team would join the haters.. provide cover for them.. because things are going poorly.. that is sad.
You have to be in it to win it and while money will not ensure ultimate success by itself, it gets you in the high stakes poker game. You still need good decision making and a little luck.
However on the flip side, if you don't have it you can all but write off the chance at winning.
This is why I was the poster who in the face of this board supporting and talking up NIL or really pay for play said in time this would limit opportunities for players and fans in the future. The costs are too great and there are no guarantees. So we can look forward to programs moving down in level of competition or simply deciding it is too expensive, and ceasing their programs. With no guidelines like a draft and hard cap this will quickly devolve into super teams and the rather hopeless. There will not be a sports middle class. As this sets up more fans will be left feeling like the proverbial one legged man in the ass kicking contest and find something else.
There is no longer developmental teams, as rosters can change dramatically EVERY season. That is if you have the cash!
However on the flip side, if you don't have it you can all but write off the chance at winning.
This is why I was the poster who in the face of this board supporting and talking up NIL or really pay for play said in time this would limit opportunities for players and fans in the future. The costs are too great and there are no guarantees. So we can look forward to programs moving down in level of competition or simply deciding it is too expensive, and ceasing their programs. With no guidelines like a draft and hard cap this will quickly devolve into super teams and the rather hopeless. There will not be a sports middle class. As this sets up more fans will be left feeling like the proverbial one legged man in the ass kicking contest and find something else.
There is no longer developmental teams, as rosters can change dramatically EVERY season. That is if you have the cash!
Oregon did get to the national title game against Auburn in football. Maybe not a title but still pretty good.
With the injuries + history here + no AD and outgoing President obvious troll is obvious.
If we don't make a bowl this year or next, then it is a fair discussion.
If we don't make a bowl this year or next, then it is a fair discussion.
Sure they have some good results but for the amount of money Knight donated, it’s not what you’d expect.
I heard this on the CFE pod. A&M has had only one double digit win season since 1998 (Manziel year). That’s another place that gets gobs of money and they haven’t gotten much either for all of it. Now they have a good solid worked his way up from the bottom coach in Elko and maybe they might do something. They are alone in first place in the SEC currently. All the previous money spent alone wasn’t enough, it’s potentially landing on a good solid smart coach that might get them somewhere.
And these are places that are the top of the top spenders and it’s still been elusive for them all these years. Most likely RU will never be in that class of spending and frankly most schools won’t be.
Main point is money definitely helpful but it’s not the end all be all and cure all that so many think it is and shouldn’t be a crutch for any and every problem. No matter how much money you have, it has to be used wisely or you won’t get a good return on it.
On top of which, we are who we are and you have to figure out how to make it work with what you have. The less you have the more resourceful, creative and wise you have to be.
I actually think schools paying players might be another potential thing that pushes things a little further towards parity. That will be real hard cash and hopefully transparent like coaching contracts unlike NIL where it can be real, lies or misleading. Schools in the P2 actually might have a leg up because it will be easier to get up to that low 20M cap (initial cap and for all sports I think...football, MBB getting the lion's share most likely) to pay players but all schools will probably making cuts in other sports.
You'll never have full parity in CFB but every little step is helpful. We have more parity now than we've ever had. We see teams doing things they've never done or haven't done in a long time. People keep complaining but all I see watching and reading about tons for CFB is opportunity is as good as it has ever been. Expanded playoffs will even push those opportunities further than what Cincy/TCU did in a 4 team playoff. Winning a CFB championship is still fairly exclusive imo but even that pool has widened with what we saw with Washington/Michigan who haven't done anything close in a generation and aren't the cream of the cream in terms of recruiting etc.. But outside of winning a championship there's a lot of big accomplishments that will be possible for schools that haven't had them before or in a long time.
Good post! Now getting away from constant fan pressure will help and buy time. That said there will always be more dark money in it now and those costs will be passed along to fans.
While you are right, today we have more parity ( mediocrity) I think this will change in time. Now putting the financial onus on schools might mitigate the change, the fact remains, they have gotten rid of the controls they previously put in, to try and eliminate super teams. Before things like hard scholarship counts, some of the blue bloods like Oklahoma ripped off what today seems like unreal winning streaks. This is because they stacked their bench. Since this misguided decision was made NIL pretty much every other decision has been to allow the haves to get back to really stacking the deck. Those that have the means can look to build their super team. Schools that do not have the backing will be left with what is left. In time at this trajectory, CFB will look like how the old BIG 8 used to look. Relatively a few common names at the top, then everyone else. Schools like Rutgers will do alright in HS recruiting, as the money will go to the portal. However when or if any player pops up and out performs their ranking, somebody will be there to make a deal.
Now in closing I will bring up another potential problem, with young players like Duff, Strong, and Raymond playing well, will they attract an offer from an Uber rich program Rutgers will be unable to match? See now in pay for play we don't have to be concerned with this happening to just our HS recruits. Today's developmental programs are really just developing talent for richer programs. It is like how in MLB before the luxury tax,
teams like Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and Oakland developed talent for the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers.
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I actually see the opposite. I think it's harder to stack a team now than before. Many coaches, even at the top brand schools, talk about the lack of depth compared to before. Everyone is going through it to one degree or another. I've even posted comments from Smart saying one of the biggest things that's helping parity or what not is that the talent in the most important position (QB) is being spread around.
I've said many times there's a balance between money and playing time and every individual is different. A lot of players won't want to be stacked on a team and sit on a bench because they want to play so they may take less money somewhere else or get paid in one place and then move to another later on. I've seen plenty of comments from players saying as much. Ashton Jeanty (potential Heisman candidate) stuck at Boise vs bigger offers. It's not unusual and it's up to the individual.
Playing time is a fixed thing essentially. You can't magically create more minutes that are already being taken up by another player. However, with schools being able to pay players the money side of the equation can be a little more attractive on top of playing time for schools that don't have as many resources. Jedd Fisch made some comments about his excitement about schools being able to pay players helping to level the field some.
Portal and what not is already making talent spread out more now than the past. I feel like schools paying players will take that a little further in that direction which again is another step towards the parity end of the spectrum.
Agree to disagree then. I'm not looking much at today because the system is new. Just because it has not happened on a grand scale yet, does not mean it will not happen. I hope I'm dead wrong but I truly believe the vision I laid out will be where this ends up in time.
Lots of good points. But one thing you don’t mention is the schedule got a lot easier for schiano 1.0. The schedule gets a lot tougher for schiano 2.0
The schedule got a lot easier and yet we still only ever won a share of the Big East and had the disastrous 2010 season (with our current OC in the same role). The great class that caused us to retain Flood as HC either fell apart or didn't pay dividends.
All in all it doesn't really matter as Schiano isn't going anywhere; if the talent is as thin next year as it is this year we will still be having the same discussions when it won't matter until 2028 or 2029.
The right questions to ask are:
- Can the defense get fixed AT ALL, enough for us to win two more games this year? The benefits of having the extra practice for making a bowl game are still really good.
- What do we do regarding assistants for next year?
- What does the offense look like next year and will Ciarocca still be the OC?
Fire him? Are you suggesting an bonfire?What ever happened to drawing and quartering,.tarring and feathering and other more unique methods(just kidding.I really like Greg as a person,as a coach there is some room for discussion.
The point of my post was this: money can make a difference, fan expectations are irrelevant.
I'm not saying money will lead to championships. Because other teams have money too, and teams still have to compete with those teams. Also, enough injuries in a given season can still dramatically downgrade any team's quality, even if the team has spent tons of money. There's obviously a point of diminishing returns, as in most things, right?
But, in the NIL/transfer-portal era, spending enough money will buy a very good team in most seasons. It's somewhat harder to buy depth because really good players want to play, not sit on the bench waiting for someone to get injured. But other than QB or kicker/punter, most positions support giving multiple players plenty of snaps, so you can buy at least some measure of elite depth.
I'll say it again though, I'm not trying to tell anybody what to do with their money. And I'm in the camp that thinks that Rutgers will need to find some NJ corporations to endow the team with some kind of perpetual NIL trust fund, rather than try to rely on individual fan donations. I would hope that's where the focus is for whomever is responsible for fund raising.
What makes you think you're smart enough to judge how smart he is? Or anybody else?
In my experience, people who constantly bring up other people's intelligence in a negative way, or as a means of debating some point, are often dealing with insecurity about their own intelligence. So, you know, relax a little - you're probably not dumb enough to be so insecure. 🙂
I'm of the opinion that the COVID year benefitted Schiano more than most. It bought him more experience (the extra eligibility year), and gave him an early easy season where most teams were way off their game. And that situation is what GS excels at - managing a situation. He's a fantastic manager and organizer. Great executive skills. Those skills allowed him to keep RU players and coaches on track where some other coaches of better teams appeared to struggle a lot more with the situation.
Anyway, I'm not weighing in on the whole "firing" thing - GS isn't going anywhere for at least another couple years. And I never participate in fanbase witch-hunts anyway. It's a mob mentality thing and I avoid those like the plague.
Just pointing out that, IMO, the COVID year didn't really appear to harm RUFB nearly as much as other Big Ten teams.
GS 1.0 was lucky…he did not have the gauntlet that GS 2.0 has to suffer through in conference. Comparing GS eras is apples and dragonfruit
Agreed but that is in terms of immediate results.. not progress for the program. In terms of progressing the program.. that is a lost year. Less recruiting, less practice, fewer games.. I do think it was a lost year.
But, I suppose, the harshest critics are only focussed on THIS year.. and 2/3rds of this year at that. Hoping to get that negative hot-seat thing going ASAP, before Schiano and the team can pull off a bowl game.
Damn right. Said that during 1.0 and even with the much easier schedules toward the end and his peak was the Texas Bowl (BE #3).
It makes me wonder if Schiano would be a candidate for the AD. Of course, he probably couldn't handle the pay cut that would come with the promotion
I am like 99% certain he'd never want that job. Think about it. It's a ton of work and stress for relatively low pay (relative to head coach pay). Pretty sure once he is done coaching, he'll want to relax.
And he doesn't need the money. If he's just looking to keep busy, there's a dozen other things he could get involved with that would be far less stressful and far more personally rewarding outside of sports.
I should smack you right in the mouth.
We wouldn't even be in the Big Ten if it wasn't for Greg.
You want to punch someone because they don't feel the same way you feel about the coach of a sports team?
not sure about that. we’re talking about an egomaniac remember. he’ll want both jobs. he’ll rubber stamp his own raises and extensions and dare the newbie president to do something about it.
