From Jerry C...on Eugene O

[higgins3]

The fact that the coach has mentioned Eugene, and then he gets pretty much his own article.

Gotta be happy for the kid. It seems like he has recognized his potential, and is now actively finding it everyday.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

People has been that misconception for a long time, that the B1G is this league with these huge frontcourts......it's just not the case. It's guard driven like most of CBB.

Yes, but B1G has a ton of non guards that takes someone with special skills to guard. That could be where someone like Eugene can have an important role on this team. I know he is gone, but that big guy from Purdue (Swanigan) isn't going to be covered by Williams and not by Gettys.

 

[RUz91]

Wasnt he only a freshman last year?

 

[AshCatchEm]

Im not wrong haha i mean i havent seen him produce yet in his career. Could he have improved in the off-season? Sure. But Carinos article basically states what i was saying, he was awful last year. Pike is quote saying "hes more comfortable with the ball now" aka dude couldnt even dribble last year. Hes finishing around the room (he shot 35% from field last year and that was mostly shots with 5 feet of the basketball). He was abysmal last year and to say otherwise is insane

Your head is straight up your ass

Oh yea I forgot your dumbass comment that freshman can't improve and you generally know what you're gonna get in their first year. Hey guess what? Coaches are raving about him..guys that know 10000% more than you about basketball. You don't rave about bad players.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Your head is straight up your ass

Oh yea I forgot your dumbass comment that freshman can't improve and you generally know what you're gonna get in their first year. Hey guess what? Coaches are raving about him..guys that know 10000% more than you about basketball. You don't rave about bad players.

lets see what happens when he steps on the floor. Coaches also raved about the leap Kamaal Seymour made coming into this year too and he might be even worse than he was last year.

Again I'm rooting for Eugene, truly am, but last year he struggling dribbling and with lay ups.

 

[AshCatchEm]

lets see what happens when he steps on the floor. Coaches also raved about the leap Kamaal Seymour made coming into this year too and he might be even worse than he was last year.

Again I'm rooting for Eugene, truly am, but last year he struggling dribbling and with lay ups.

You seem to skirt around a general message that if you don't score points you aren't worth anythinf. It's like you've never heard of a glue guy or a defensive specialist.

We have the ability to put Eugene in, a year bigger and older and weighing MORE than Freeman does by 5 pounds who is only 1 inch shorter (and maybe even has a longer wingspan) at PF when Freeman is tired (and he will be often) from the physical style we WILL be playing...and have arguably as good a defensive effort, potentially even better if he develops right. Even if he doesn't score any points, even if he just locks down some solid players when he's in the game and just nabs some rebounds..I see great value in that.

 

[rubaseball78]

lets see what happens when he steps on the floor. Coaches also raved about the leap Kamaal Seymour made coming into this year too and he might be even worse than he was last year.

Again I'm rooting for Eugene, truly am, but last year he struggling dribbling and with lay ups.

The issue isn't that you have a different opinion on a player but that you appear to be actively advocating running people off the teams. If you were the be all that ends all in terms of judging talent, you wouldn't be here posting on a website. I know we differed last year on Seymour. You were of the opinion he would never be a good tackle, I was willing to wait and see given his lack of experience. You appear to be right with Seymour but I believe you are wrong on Eugene. Yes, he does need to show it on the court but the potential is there.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Your head is straight up your ass
.

Show some class. If he really bothers you just refer to him as Little KYK.

 

[4theknights]

Pike talked about getting unpolished gems and polishing them up. Eugene is an example of that. He came in late last year and missed summer S&C and workouts. I think we need to be fair here and see how he develops. Bashing his freshman year over and over again is just tiring. Here's a good kid working his butt off to improve. Just relax.

 

[linzalonic]

He averaged 2.2 points while shooting 35% from the field, most of which were within 5 feet of the tin. You know what they say, men lie, women lie, numbers dont. He was AWFUL last year. He literally struggled dribbling

Your comments on Eugene are red-lining the douche meter.

He was not awful. He struggled in some phases, like many raw freshmen do. He also showed a lot of promise, and is working his ass off. So maybe stop attacking him repeatedly and see how his career plays out.

 

[higgins3]

Also great is that the staff sees more focus from Sanders. I think within the first 6 games, the fans will know whether he will stay here, go to the g league, or head overseas.

I hope Thiam is hanging with Omoyuri all day. If he can take that step, next years team is a lot better. Thiam needs to gain more of a base, and then start to become some type of bruiser. He will need to rebound from his position. Defense, making right decisions, and unique matchups will be his calling card this year.

He will see 15-20 minutes if he backs up the claim that he is a shooter.

Let's go, Thiam!

 

[AshCatchEm]

Show some class. If he really bothers you just refer to him as Little KYK.

i call it like i see it. im sure plenty of others agree with the way i phrased it.

 

[higgins3]

Pike talked about getting unpolished gems and polishing them up. Eugene is an example of that. He came in late last year and missed summer S&C and workouts. I think we need to be fair here and see how he develops. Bashing his freshman year over and over again is just tiring. Here's a good kid working his butt off to improve. Just relax.

I think Pikiell will end up getting some more 4 star players, but this is not a bad recruiting tactic. So far, I have really enjoyed the skill sets that a lot of his recruits possess.

They are versatile, long armed athletes that can defend more than one position. Is he stretching a little bit saying Omoyuri can guard a point guard?Probably. But still, as a coach I am sure it is great to have a player like Eugene Omoyuri.

As fans, we are hearing about players developing on the Banks. With this kind of development, the program will make a CRITICAL step in keeping players for four years, and having them develop to their full potential.

Can't wait to aboard the spaceship on the 10.

 

[RUJMM78]

Although I am not quite over the top as kyk on Eugene, I am also in a wait and see mode. We are throwing him at the four and I don't like it. He can lift all the weights he wants he still is going to struggle there. People forget that most teams in the B1G have either a seven footer at the four (see Purdue) or a wing that can jump out of the gym and run circles around most other fours. Look at Freeman he struggles at times and there is no way Omoyuri took that big a leap that he is as good as Freeman now. I always thought his role would be that he could be that defensive stopper at the three when we want a big lineup for 5-10 minutes a game and the emergency four when we are in foul trouble.

Spot on comments giving viewpoints on how Eugene can be best utilized in the B1G.Size does matter at the power forward position which explains recruiting Carter for next season.

 

[LC-88]

Thiam needs to gain more of a base, and then start to become some type of bruiser.

Let's go, Thiam!

I'm a Thiam fan too. He needs to spend more time at the buffet to gain more weight to go along with his base. Hope Pike had him downing some steak and fries while he was doing his show at QSL.

 

[rubaseball78]

Also great is that the staff sees more focus from Sanders. I think within the first 6 games, the fans will know whether he will stay here, go to the g league, or head overseas.

I hope Thiam is hanging with Omoyuri all day. If he can take that step, next years team is a lot better. Thiam needs to gain more of a base, and then start to become some type of bruiser. He will need to rebound from his position. Defense, making right decisions, and unique matchups will be his calling card this year.

He will see 15-20 minutes if he backs up the claim that he is a shooter.

Let's go, Thiam!

I can't picture Thiam ever being a bruiser. :grimace: But you don't need to be a bruiser to play defense and rebound. Athleticism and technique goes a long way.

 

[higgins3]

I can't picture Thiam ever being a bruiser. :grimace: But you don't need to be a bruiser to play defense and rebound. Athleticism and technique goes a long way.

You are right. But he will have to use his frame in a different way to get meaningful minutes on the wing. You have to have a mentality, which will come along with getting bigger. Where he will want to get in there to grab rebounds.He is already a long armed defender. That helps.

 

[higgins3]

I'm a Thiam fan too. He needs to spend more time at the buffet to gain more weight to go along with his base. Hope Pike had him downing some steak and fries while he was doing his show at QSL.

Definitely. He will get better. I think his junior year will be his best year. What I would do to have the Livingston Dining Hall back in my life again.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Definitely. He will get better. I think his junior year will be his best year. What I would do to have the Livingston Dining Hall back in my life again.

I'm hoping he gets better each season and his senior year will be his best year. :sunglasses:

 

[higgins3]

I'm hoping he gets better each season and his senior year will be his best year. :sunglasses:

Me too. I was saying his junior year would be his best year since he has arrived on the Banks. I think this season you are going to see a lot of three guard lineups, and more speed.

That does not necessarily play into Thiam's strengths. He will have to continue gaining strength, and grow his role out to get the most minutes. By next year, I think he is in a good position strength wise to start grabbing 3-5 rebounds per game, and start driving more inside with pressure on him.

I have spoken to him on campus once .What a nice kid. I trust he continues to grow here on the Banks.

 

[RUChoppin]

Some of Eugene's stats per 40 min last year, ranked among active scholarship players:

2nd in assists (behind Sanders)
3rd in steals (behind Sanders and Johnson)
4th in assist/turnover ratio (behind Johnson, Sanders, and Williams)

Those are guard stats from a ball awareness perspective, coming from a guy who's 6-7, 230+. Great foundation to build on from a "Basketball IQ" perspective, especially from a freshman who only started playing a few years ago.

Better S&C will help him finish around the rim and establish position for rebounds, as well as more reps in practice. We're not asking him to step out and hit threes - he's definitely more of a 4 than a 3 - but he can guard guys who do, and shouldn't be a liability on a defensive switch.

Looking forward to what he brings to the table this year.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The turnover numbers will (hopefully) go down. There were many occasions when he made passes that were there at the HS level that weren't in the B1G

 

[Degaz-RU]

Eugene wasn't ASKED to score last year, so it's erroneous to judge him based on his scoring stats (2.2 ppg). With raw freshmen, you judge based on whether you see promise in various aspects of the game, and I think Jelly's post accurately summarizes Eugene's play last year.

Very reckless after a true freshmen season for anybody to say that Eugene was "terrible" and should have been run off the team. He CLEARLY showed promise in many areas of the game -- especially things that Pike highly values like defense, rebounding, and passing -- and the fact that he may have struggled shooting or suffered turnovers does not change that fact.

Countless players improve from freshmen season to sophomore season, and sophomore season to junior season, etc. So when you get a player who clearly shows promise in many facets of the game, you can reasonably expect improvement and can reasonably count on the kid to be a key player in the rotation -- especially a kid with Eugene's work ethic (which cannot be measured in stats).

Listen, I don't think you can win in high-major college hoops with a team FILLED with 13 (or even 7 or 5) Eugene Omoruyi's, because there wouldn't be enough scoring (at least at his current level of play). But by the same token, I don't think you can win in high-major college hoops without SOME Eugene Omoruyi's on the team.

 

[KevH]

Like I posted yesterday, I think Eugene will be fine. Kid just started playing basketball 4-5 years ago. Be patient.

This kid is a project. If he continues to improve the team gets better AND it helps recruiting because the staff can point to this kid as a glittering jewel of player development.

The speed of the game and the strength and talent of opponents were, quite possibly, a big shock to a kid who was able to make plays in Canada because of his size, athleticism and strength. Last season he learned that won't get him by at the D1 level, might have lost some confidence. He's added strength, committed to working hard and is showing improvement.

Not much more you can ask.

 

[higgins3]

Although I am not quite over the top as kyk on Eugene, I am also in a wait and see mode. We are throwing him at the four and I don't like it. He can lift all the weights he wants he still is going to struggle there. People forget that most teams in the B1G have either a seven footer at the four (see Purdue) or a wing that can jump out of the gym and run circles around most other fours. Look at Freeman he struggles at times and there is no way Omoyuri took that big a leap that he is as good as Freeman now. I always thought his role would be that he could be that defensive stopper at the three when we want a big lineup for 5-10 minutes a game and the emergency four when we are in foul trouble.

The coaching staff is not throwing him there. His ability to want to be a compete, and be physical lends him to that position. Also, they need someone to play those minutes more than they do at the wing. Freeman could be a 3 at the next level, but again, he has the attributes to put him at the four. Why waste an above average rebounder and put him out on the wing where it will be hard for him to establish position, and grab a board?

Overall, what we are hearing is stuff we have not heard in a while. Players stay for four years because they see the staff can develop. They improve. This is CRITICAL going forward.

 

[ScarletRunner]

Here is the article from Jerry. This certainly got my juices going this morning!

View embedded media

It's tough to read that article and not get excited about this season, and next. Pretty much everything you'd want to hear... massive improvement from Eugene, intensity and leadership from Sanders, newcomers like Kiss and Mensah looking good, and depth/competition driving improvement in practice.

Could we finally be approaching the RU basketball watershed moment we've all been waiting for...?

 

[RUJMM78]

Eugene wasn't ASKED to score last year, so it's erroneous to judge him based on his scoring stats (2.2 ppg). With raw freshmen, you judge based on whether you see promise in various aspects of the game, and I think Jelly's post accurately summarizes Eugene's play last year.

Very reckless after a true freshmen season for anybody to say that Eugene was "terrible" and should have been run off the team. He CLEARLY showed promise in many areas of the game -- especially things that Pike highly values like defense, rebounding, and passing -- and the fact that he may have struggled shooting or suffered turnovers does not change that fact.

Countless players improve from freshmen season to sophomore season, and sophomore season to junior season, etc. So when you get a player who clearly shows promise in many facets of the game, you can reasonably expect improvement and can reasonably count on the kid to be a key player in the rotation -- especially a kid with Eugene's work ethic (which cannot be measured in stats).

Listen, I don't think you can win in high-major college hoops with a team FILLED with 13 (or even 7 or 5) Eugene Omoruyi's, because there wouldn't be enough scoring (at least at his current level of play). But by the same token, I don't think you can win in high-major college hoops without SOME Eugene Omoruyi's on the team.

Your last paragraph is a good summary of Eugene's role on the team.Successful teams need a blend of players that have various skillsets.In Rutgers case the biggest need is scorers and that is why Mathis has such importance for the 2018 recruiting class.

 

[higgins3]

Some of Eugene's stats per 40 min last year, ranked among active scholarship players:

2nd in assists (behind Sanders)
3rd in steals (behind Sanders and Johnson)
4th in assist/turnover ratio (behind Johnson, Sanders, and Williams)

Those are guard stats from a ball awareness perspective, coming from a guy who's 6-7, 230+. Great foundation to build on from a "Basketball IQ" perspective, especially from a freshman who only started playing a few years ago.

Better S&C will help him finish around the rim and establish position for rebounds, as well as more reps in practice. We're not asking him to step out and hit threes - he's definitely more of a 4 than a 3 - but he can guard guys who do, and shouldn't be a liability on a defensive switch.

Looking forward to what he brings to the table this year.

Choppin, I think we discussed this once, but do you see any real usability in the per 40 stat? To me, it leaves way too much uncertainty.

 

[RUChoppin]

Choppin, I think we discussed this once, but do you see any real usability in the per 40 stat? To me, it leaves way too much uncertainty.

I do, because it normalizes a bit for how much time they spend on the floor.

One player might average 10 points a game and another 5 points per game... but if the first player gets 22 minutes to the second player's 11 minutes, they really score at about the same rate while they're on the floor.

In a more real example, Issa Thiam averages 0.4 steals per game, while Eugene averages 0.5... but when you take into account their relative time on the court, Eugene has nearly twice as many steals per minute played as Issa does. Just looking at overall "per game" numbers, you don't see how much better Eugene was at disrupting passes/handlers.

Or compare Gettys' 1.2 assists per game with Eugene's 1.0.... the per game numbers make it look like Gettys' was slightly better at setting up his teammates for points. Adjusting for minutes played, though, Eugene had about 50% more assists per minute played than Gettys did.

When you have guys who only play 10-14 minutes per game, the "per game" numbers don't really tell the whole story. The "per 40" numbers don't either, but they give a little different context and perspective.

When looking at the "per 40" numbers, though, you have to ignore players who see limited action because their numbers get skewed pretty dramatically. For instance, Khalil Batie has 5.7 assists per 40 min... but he only played 14 min all season, with 2 assists.

 

[shields]

I was in school when John Battle was at RU. Averaged 2.4 points a game as a frosh and three years later he is in the NBA. You don't know how hard kids work at their game. As a frosh never thought Battle would be that good. My favorite RU player.

 

[RUsojo]

Although I am not quite over the top as kyk on Eugene, I am also in a wait and see mode. We are throwing him at the four and I don't like it. He can lift all the weights he wants he still is going to struggle there. People forget that most teams in the B1G have either a seven footer at the four (see Purdue) or a wing that can jump out of the gym and run circles around most other fours. Look at Freeman he struggles at times and there is no way Omoyuri took that big a leap that he is as good as Freeman now. I always thought his role would be that he could be that defensive stopper at the three when we want a big lineup for 5-10 minutes a game and the emergency four when we are in foul trouble.

I think this post is very reasonable.

To be clear, I am not expecting an all B1G player. I see Eugene as a kid who can develop into a "glue kid"...the kind of kid every team that wins needs. I am excited to see what he can do. From day 1, he struck me as a very smart player whose technical abilities hadn't quite caught up with his Bball IQ.

I am excited to see what he can do this year.

As for him moving to 4.....

No different that a HS QB being recruited for college being told he needs to put on weight and play TE OR
A college CB being told he is being looked at to play safety in the NFL.

You either are that person that is destined to stay in the position and fight to be relevant or have enough extras to be relevant used in a different way.

Everyone is pretty much spot on in this thread except for being worried with Eugene at the 4. Absolutely love it and was hoping for more of it ever since the midway point of the last season. Surprisingly later in the year one of our best rotations was with EO at the 4 and Laurent at the 3!

I also disagree with his passing - I think he made a lot of sloppy passes that resulted in turnovers. Maybe a year of experience will help his timing.

 

[RUChoppin]

I also disagree with his passing - I think he made a lot of sloppy passes that resulted in turnovers. Maybe a year of experience will help his timing.

I think EO was looking to feed the ball to teammates a lot, which resulted in a bunch of turnovers, but also a bunch of assists. His assist/turnover ratio was 0.97, though, which is pretty good for a forward.

Comparing his assist/turnover numbers to other guys who played the 3/4 spots last year... Mike Williams was 1.15, Freeman was 0.45, Thiam was 0.42, Laurent was 0.38, and Sa was 0.35.

 

[higgins3]

I do, because it normalizes a bit for how much time they spend on the floor.

One player might average 10 points a game and another 5 points per game... but if the first player gets 22 minutes to the second player's 11 minutes, they really score at about the same rate while they're on the floor.

In a more real example, Issa Thiam averages 0.4 steals per game, while Eugene averages 0.5... but when you take into account their relative time on the court, Eugene has nearly twice as many steals per minute played as Issa does. Just looking at overall "per game" numbers, you don't see how much better Eugene was at disrupting passes/handlers.

Or compare Gettys' 1.2 assists per game with Eugene's 1.0.... the per game numbers make it look like Gettys' was slightly better at setting up his teammates for points. Adjusting for minutes played, though, Eugene had about 50% more assists per minute played than Gettys did.

When you have guys who only play 10-14 minutes per game, the "per game" numbers don't really tell the whole story. The "per 40" numbers don't either, but they give a little different context and perspective.

When looking at the "per 40" numbers, though, you have to ignore players who see limited action because their numbers get skewed pretty dramatically. For instance, Khalil Batie has 5.7 assists per 40 min... but he only played 14 min all season, with 2 assists.

Okay. I will have to read more about it.

 

[Plum Street]

I would say let's wait and see on all fronts . We know how preaeason articles can be . Let them play the games

 

[Scarlet Shack]

I like hungry ball players and we have a bunch of them in this team

Go get'em

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

There will be more growing pains with Eugene because he just hasn't played enough basketball to develop the instincts and feel for the game.....it was such a jump from an August recruit found late, thrown into the deep end of the pool against better competition of the B1G 4 -6 months later.

I don't think Eugene will be that smooth, fluid player, but at the PF, he'll play a lot if he can defend well, which comes down to instincts and playing time. I know people are critical of the softer schedule, but those games allow the players to get acclimated to a higher level of play. The first 10 games or so will tell us a lot about whether this improved Eugene translates to 6-8PPG....

The staff adding so many stronger players, also simulates game action much more than last year for all the players (Sanders vs Souf, Eugene vs Freeman/Sa and Kiss/Thiam....that makes your roster more complete.

 

[wheezer]

I was in school when John Battle was at RU. Averaged 2.4 points a game as a frosh and three years later he is in the NBA. You don't know how hard kids work at their game. As a frosh never thought Battle would be that good. My favorite RU player.

John battle was the most improved player I ever saw at RU over the course of a career.

It was almost like someone else was playing in his uniform by the time he was a junior

 

[RU-ROCS]

I was in school when John Battle was at RU. Averaged 2.4 points a game as a frosh and three years later he is in the NBA. You don't know how hard kids work at their game. As a frosh never thought Battle would be that good. My favorite RU player.

Agree on Battle. I actually had a class with him while at RU. Quiet, but nice guy. Turned out to be a terrific guard.

 

[snowboarder]

I like EOs game alot. He seems to have very good basketball instincts. Good passer and motor, He is not a skywalker but does have a great body for the game.
If he can develop as a finisher, he will have a significant impact on the program before he leaves. Thiam to me is a pure wing, strength will certainly help but his future is on the perimeter. I have seen many taller players that have been called perimeter players simply because they can shoot and are unwilling to bang down low.
He is different because of his quickness and ability to guard on the perimeter. He has the feet to play on the outside effectively. He needs to learn to shoot off the dribble and get himself into positions on the court that allow him to score in different ways.

 

[higgins3]

The fact that the forums had two pages about Eugene Omoyuri is just terrific.

Good for him.