GAME 1 PRINCETON: A mess but understandable?

[bac2therac]

Tonight was a mess all around but it is my birthday so I will try to keep this recap focused and perhaps short.

Could not quite make sense of what I saw at that crappy outdated arena but it starts and ends with that this game never ever should have been scheduled.

A half filled arena dominated by Rutgers fans with a limited amount of Princeton fans basically said THIS IS NOT A RIVALRY GAME. The fantasy land of the 60s and 70s a few of our alums and NJ media live in does not exist. You cannot go back and force something that isnt there. Still they tried and they succeeded and got Hobbs to buy in. To make matters worse instead of scheduling the game at the RAC or even Jadwin it was plopped in a crappy outdated arena in Trenton....just screaming big time atmosphere right. To their credit RU fans showed up in decent numbers and were ready to get loud and did when RU would get close but alas the overall performance rendered the crowd a non factor

So one could guess Pikiell who we know likes to play a softer non conference schedule especially early was likely forced into playing this game and then hit with the double whammy of having to play this game as the season opener. For a team that lost 3 key starters and was now going to have to put returning players and new players in more prominent roles it was a recipe for disaster. Stepping back, can anyone really be surprised at what we saw tonight. Pikiell clearly does not have the program ready or in a spot to be able to win a game in this kind of spot. Pike is just trying to figure out the rotations and the combos. Playing Boston U and Bryant gives you an opportunity to work things in gradually, Princeton does not. One of the worst programs to throw your team out there on opening night. Pike was in a really really tough spot. So while I think overall he was outcoached and the players were outplayed and outhustled, I am somewhat forgiving.

I am furious this game was scheduled because it put a young team in a 0-1 hole that was not really necessary. I do not think there was a huge amount of positives to take out of this game because Princeton was such an unorthodox opponent to play against that say judging a Gavin Griffiths or a Noah Fernandes performance against Princeton is not only not fair but almost impossible. The one thing we did learn is this team has a ton of work ahead of them and so does Pikiell. I also think once again some of the staff of this site and NJ journalists fall in love too much with what happens in practice and overated that come gameday. It would appear from tonight that everyone on this team needs to keep getting better. I do not fault some bad play from newcomers. However it may be fair to say guys like Derek, Cliff, Aundre were pretty big letdowns tonight. To combat Princeton you needed steadiness and headiness and those 3 didnt bring it and rode pine for substantial time.

I keep seeing MESS in my head for tonight but I think I am wrong and should not dwell on that. Get back to me after the Boston U games and then a reassessment after Bryant. Should we expect that losing Cam, Caleb, and Paul was not going to be a huge dropoff. Some led us to believe that and all of suddens 3-4 newcomers were going to plug right in. Well I do not think it works that way especially since they are all unproven plus we are forcing 2 players in Derek and Hyatt (with Mag out) into greater roles. When that was done last year, it was not pretty. To just take a leap forward you need more than faith. I am okay with what Pike did with Griffiths. A teaching moment in a game where Gavin was going to be immediately thrown to the wolves against a well coached well oiled Princeton machine. As good as Gavin's press clippings are, that is probably too much to ask.

The team was discombobulated with no flow, no purpose and fell into too much trying to make the play ball and in general they didnt respect Princeton coming into the game. Those fit into all the trappings of why this game never should have been played. And even with the mess on the court tonight Rutgers still found themselves within 4 points with about 2 minutes to go. Yet I never got the sense the leadership or chutzpah was there to pull this win off. I also come away not necessarily mad or angry about the performance itself which is sort of odd for me. I do not think Pike actually is all that broken up about it either. It is what it is. A messy performance in a game that should have not been scheduled. I am okay with this. I always felt that expecations this year need to be tempered a bit but that this team could be a NCAA team if things fell into place anywhere from 17-14 to 21-10 and I still do....at least for now.

Not going to overreact because I just cannot figure out what we are just yet and I do not think Pike and his team knows what they are yet. So we hope to get through these all important lesser 5-6 games without absorbing a loss and working on rotations and combos and developing confidence and strength. The minute distribution was odd. The 4 guys who contributed the most was unexpected....Austin, Oskar, Jamike, Wolf. The 3 guys contributing the least was startling somewhat (Derek, Gavin, Hyatt). Up is down and down is up. Is this a one off. I do not know. Very odd and very messy but perhaps very understandable

I will have more to say on this game and individual stuff perhaps in the next couple of days but for now lets leave it here. No need to overreact and a need to understand that this is going to be a challenging task for Pike to replace what we lost in identity and confidence with a largely brand new group.

 

[RUsojo]

In a nutshell, IMO pike took this “totally different Rutgers team”; fast, athletic, can shoot it, etc. and coached it exactly the same as he coached all his previous teams.

However I thought we were extremely unlucky in the first half not to be up big.

Peacock production value pre game, game, and postgame was very good.

Serves us right for making a massive scheduling mistake.

Cliff still the only guy we can count on.

Not enough PnR, when will it be corrected!?!?

Too much rotation.

Except not enough Gavin. Egregious. 2 for 4 1H and then mine as well have been a 2H DNP playing less than 2minutes.

We have a guard problem. And they don’t fit together.

Though I like Davis a lot and think the sooner we hand him 30 minutes at the 1 the better.

Bad rebounding team. Cliff is on his own. Because of that, Woolfolk and cliff may need to play together more often. Looked good together.

Pike said we are deep and can get to playing 10 which he prefers. I see the opposite. Shorten it up. Fenandes or Simpson is gonna disappear by year. Those theee can’t play together imo.

 

[bac2therac]

In a nutshell, IMO pike took this “totally different Rutgers team”; fast, athletic, CBs shoot it, etc. and coached it exactly the same as he coached all his previous teams.

However I thought we were extremely unlucky in the first half not to be up big.

Peacock production value pre game, game, and postgame was very good.

Serves us right for making a massive scheduling mistake.

Cliff still the only guy we can count on.

Not when our PnR, when will it be corrected!?!?

Too much rotation.

Except not enough Gavin. Egregious. 2 for 4 1H and then mine as well have been a 2H DNP playing less than 2minutes.

We have a guard problem. And they don’t fit together.

Though I like Davis a lot and think the sooner we hand him 30 minutes at the 2 the better.

Bad rebounding team. Cliff is on his own. Because of that, Woolfolk and cliff may need to play together more often. Looked good together.

fair points.

Massive schedule mistake is an understatement and that is why I am going to treating analysis tonight with kid gloves. I do think though there is some overrating yet again of the talent Pike is bringing in ( not talking about Gavin or even Jamichael)

 

[RW90]

Well said as usual. One thing we learned yet again, is never buy into the pre-season press clippings when it comes to our roster or our offense.

 

[fatsam98]

Happy Birthday Bac

Many of us predicted a Princeton win, so this wasn't really that surprising.

At the game you could see it meant way more to their players than it did to ours... They have some solid leaders. They were intense. Us? Eh.

Not going to overreact to a loss early on, Pike is clearly still figuring out this team. The minutes that Williams and Oskar got kinda shocked me, especially in crunch time. After all the hype this offseason, Hyatt did nothing. Gavin seemed overwhelmed. Don't think anyone played well except for Wolf.

Need to go undefeated now until Illinois comes to town.

Oh and what an absolute shambles of an experience in Trenton. Stuck in gridlock traffic around 6pm for 45 minutes before finally getting to a lot a ten minute walk away. Very few cops around directing traffic. The ones who were there didn't really seem to know what was going on. At least I didn't get charged for parking I guess.

 

[RUsojo]

fair points.

Massive schedule mistake is an understatement and that is why I am going to treating analysis tonight with kid gloves. I do think though there is some overrating yet again of the talent Pike is bringing in ( not talking about Gavin or even Jamichael)

Great points about not being able to experiment in the rotation without huge risk when playing a team like Princeton in the opener.

Which begs the question, why mess around so much this game rather than waiting until the next one. Would’ve liked to see a core continually improve and mesh throughout the game by playing more minutes rather than play 9 guys who’ve never played together in these roles 20 minutes each.

I would’ve kept Hyatt in the same role off ball and on the wing and in the corners.

 

[BillyC80]

Good comments. We shouldn’t think of this as a rivalry game, but just a game against a very good local team. I had no problem with it, just wish we would have won.

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

There was no reason to play these guys now, particularly not first game, and in Trenton. Just puts us in an unnecessary hole.

 

[cm_13]

In a nutshell, IMO pike took this “totally different Rutgers team”; fast, athletic, can shoot it, etc. and coached it exactly the same as he coached all his previous teams.

However I thought we were extremely unlucky in the first half not to be up big.

Peacock production value pre game, game, and postgame was very good.

Serves us right for making a massive scheduling mistake.

Cliff still the only guy we can count on.

Not enough PnR, when will it be corrected!?!?

Too much rotation.

Except not enough Gavin. Egregious. 2 for 4 1H and then mine as well have been a 2H DNP playing less than 2minutes.

We have a guard problem. And they don’t fit together.

Though I like Davis a lot and think the sooner we hand him 30 minutes at the 1 the better.

Bad rebounding team. Cliff is on his own. Because of that, Woolfolk and cliff may need to play together more often. Looked good together.

Pike said we are deep and can get to playing 10 which he prefers. I see the opposite. Shorten it up. Fenandes or Simpson is gonna disappear by year. Those theee can’t play together imo.

Cliff was own his own and was continuously being pulled out of the paint to guard the perimeter. Easily neutralized our ability to contest at the rim and rebound.

Very much agree that this game had no business being scheduled. Also I came in with low expectations for the venue but even the light up “CURE ARENA” sign inside of the arena had three letters out and read “ E ARENA”

 

[G- RUnit]

I respect BAC but this is rivalry game.
Our oldest rivalry game.
Will only help us be battle tested in future games. Will help us Wiscy and NW for starters
We had less turnovers, more steals, more assists and more block shots.
We shot 💯 from the line.
Princeton barely about rebounded us because of last two minutes.
We lost the game because Princeton shot 9 of 20 from three and we shot 4 of 14 from three plain and simple. Have to defend the three. How did that not happen?
Hyatt and Simpson didn’t show up. Expect way more leadership from those two.
Missed way too many layups. Williams missing so many bunnies. Expected more.
Cliff had a nice game but didn’t get the ball enough. He looked way more more confident.
Oskar probably had the biggest shots of both the first and second half. Great game by him.
Wolfolk was actually very good.
Most upset when Princeton drove the length of a court for a basically uncontested layup.
Crowd was very good. Nice enough arena but appreciate how RAC is so much better and never ever mess with the footprint anymore. 118 Remembers. Crowd was loud but arena acoustics meh.
Scoreboard surprisingly awful.
Fun college environment and why this game should always be played. Poor Princeton turnout.
Lots of teachable moments.
Hope we recover and confidence not destroyed but need much better effort.
Seton Hall has basically beaten us half the time. Doesn’t mean we stop playing them.
Princeton is a great barometer.
Raise your level of preparation and competition.
Beat BU!

 

[RUJMM78]

bac- excellent recap.The loss of 30 points from Spencer,Mulcahy and McConnel clearly wasn't made up by the new players.Any team playing Princeton better be prepared for defending their offense which includes dribble drives to the basket ,3 point shooting and offensive rebounds.The team clearly was unprepared to play Princeton even after exhibition games and time spent together on the trip to Africa and Portugal.Going forward there must be some go to scorers which clearly was lacking in this game.I was concerned going into this season regarding the lack of 3 point shooting and this game only reinforced that feeling.Its only one out of conference game but this loss must now be counter balanced with wins against Seton Hall and Mississippi State.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Happy birthday

Disagree about judging Gavin. He reminded me of what i saw with Chol last year. Chol is still stuck to the bench. Not worried about Gavin on offense. I think he will be able to play tvrough tge D but it has to come at Hyatts exoense.

We have 3 point guards (none showed vision)
We can only have 1 of (oskar aundre and Gavin) on floor
We have the 5 covered
Hopefully mag comes back

Still a ton of holes to fill

 

[bac2therac]

Happy birthday

Disagree about judging Gavin. He reminded me of what i saw with Chol last year. Chol is still stuck to the bench. Not worried about Gavin on offense. I think he will be able to play tvrough tge D but it has to come at Hyatts exoense.

We have 3 point guards (none showed vision)
We can only have 1 of (oskar aundre and Gavin) on floor
We have the 5 covered
Hopefully mag comes back

Still a ton of holes to fill

I wish Pike recruited better, we are still in this hole until Ace/Dylan come

 

[Degaz-RU]

I don’t understand the constant refrain that this was a “mistake” to schedule this game. People complain about our weak OOC schedule every year, and now we schedule a solid opponent and people bitch that it was a mistake to schedule it?

Forget that it was played in a crappy arena in a crappy city. We are a Power 6 team, and I expect a better EFFORT from our team against a solid opponent, especially one that made the Sweet 16 last year.

I’m shocked at the rather forgiving attitude from you, bac. I, for one, am LIVID at the poor effort tonight. I sat close to the Princeton basket in the second half, and the Princeton players had way more effort and energy than our players, and forget about the skill they showed.

Our players got PUNKED, plain and simple. We got embarrassed. We were never in this game. Every time we got close, Princeton was able to score on our weak defense, and when they missed, they wanted the rebound more.

EMBARRASSING.

Simpson and Hyatt — two of our supposed leaders — were complete no shows, and Simpson in fact was plain AWFUL. Our supposed superstar center was neutralized. Our 5-star freshman was nowhere to be found in the second half even though we were struggling on offense.

We don’t seem to have any LEADERS on the floor. We have a bunch of guys who played a pick up game tonight. We looked like the Washington Generals playing the Harlem Globetrotters at times out there, the way Princeton was running circles around our team and just WANTED it more.

As you can see, I’m PISSED with this effort, and I’m WORRIED that the things we saw tonight are not just “one offs” against a well oiled opponent, but are simply who we are — a faster team that still can’t shoot straight, but plays way worse defense than we have in years.

 

[RW90]

I respect BAC but this is rivalry game.
Our oldest rivalry game

Don't you need two excited fanbases for it to be a rivalry?

 

[darkcheck]

Love the analysis BAC, always do. I’m not as optimistic though because while it was only one game, this team had the benefit of the summer trip and additional practice to be ready. To be out rebounded and out hustled the way they were was inexcusable. That shows a lack of heart and that’s hard to make up. Rotations might sharpen against cupcakes but when Seton Hall, IL and Miss St come up will we automatically rebound better and “want” loose balls.

 

[bac2therac]

I don’t understand the constant refrain that this was a “mistake” to schedule this game. People complain about our weak OOC schedule every year, and now we schedule a solid opponent and people bitch that it was a mistake to schedule it?

Forget that it was played in a crappy arena in a crappy city. We are a Power 6 team, and I expect a better EFFORT from our team against a solid opponent, especially one that made the Sweet 16 last year.

I’m shocked at the rather forgiving attitude from you, bac. I, for one, am LIVID at the poor effort tonight. I sat close to the Princeton basket in the second half, and the Princeton players had way more effort and energy than our players, and forget about the skill they showed.

Our players got PUNKED, plain and simple. We got embarrassed. We were never in this game. Every time we got close, Princeton was able to score on our weak defense, and when they missed, they wanted the rebound more.

EMBARRASSING.

Simpson and Hyatt — two of our supposed leaders — were complete no shows, and Simpson in fact was plain AWFUL. Our supposed superstar center was neutralized. Our 5-star freshman was nowhere to be found in the second half even though we were struggling on offense.

We don’t seem to have any LEADERS on the floor. We have a bunch of guys who played a pick up game tonight. We looked like the Washington Generals playing the Harlem Globetrotters at times out there, the way Princeton was running circles around our team and just WANTED it more.

As you can see, I’m PISSED with this effort, and I’m WORRIED that the things we saw tonight are not just “one offs” against a well oiled opponent, but are simply who we are — a faster team that still can’t shoot straight, but plays way worse defense than we have in years.

because players have been annointed as starters and they may not be good....Derek and Hyatt namely. So called leaders...where...where have either shown leadership in the past. We dont have leaders because our 3 leaders are all gone. The rest of the guys are newcomers and I cannot hold freshmen feet to fire playing a team like Princeton. I dont know what expectations you had but I think yours were probably higher than mine. We lost 3 very very good players. Our defensive star, a tough leader and our best shooter and we are still without Mag....what we replaced them with is likely not better and certainly not better in game 1 in a ridiculous spot playing a well oiled machine called Princeton. A stupid scheduling blunder.

The reality eventually may be that we are a 500 or below team this year and that Pike didnt recruit well enough to bridge the gap the past 2 seasons until we get to Dylan and Ace. Not ready to say that after a one off bad performance vs Priinceton but it is one of the possibilities to consider

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I wish Pike recruited better, we are still in this hole until Ace/Dylan come

I think game is changing. Recruiting has been replaced with roster retention and free agency.

If Paul and Cam stay i think we would be in a much better spot.

 

[darkcheck]

I don’t understand the constant refrain that this was a “mistake” to schedule this game. People complain about our weak OOC schedule every year, and now we schedule a solid opponent and people bitch that it was a mistake to schedule it?

Forget that it was played in a crappy arena in a crappy city. We are a Power 6 team, and I expect a better EFFORT from our team against a solid opponent, especially one that made the Sweet 16 last year.

I’m shocked at the rather forgiving attitude from you, bac. I, for one, am LIVID at the poor effort tonight. I sat close to the Princeton basket in the second half, and the Princeton players had way more effort and energy than our players, and forget about the skill they showed.

Our players got PUNKED, plain and simple. We got embarrassed. We were never in this game. Every time we got close, Princeton was able to score on our weak defense, and when they missed, they wanted the rebound more.

EMBARRASSING.

Simpson and Hyatt — two of our supposed leaders — were complete no shows, and Simpson in fact was plain AWFUL. Our supposed superstar center was neutralized. Our 5-star freshman was nowhere to be found in the second half even though we were struggling on offense.

We don’t seem to have any LEADERS on the floor. We have a bunch of guys who played a pick up game tonight. We looked like the Washington Generals playing the Harlem Globetrotters at times out there, the way Princeton was running circles around our team and just WANTED it more.

As you can see, I’m PISSED with this effort, and I’m WORRIED that the things we saw tonight are not just “one offs” against a well oiled opponent, but are simply who we are — a faster team that still can’t shoot straight, but plays way worse defense than we have in years.

Please understand no one is specifically insulting Princeton. The opposite. We’re saying how dangerous they are. The fact that it will be a Q3 loss is why it wasn’t a “solid” opponent for the schedule

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Dylan and Ace may never come. If they come it is for 1 year.

 

[bac2therac]

I think game is changing. Recruiting has been replaced with roster retention and free agency.

If Paul and Cam stay i think we would be in a much better spot.

absolutely that is why I roll my eyes at the spin that they were not that good and we were better off, they would only be here for a year...they are exactly what we need unless you somehow think Derek is the next Geo which has been touted here and Noah will shoot 3s like Cam and Hyatt will somehow turn into a plus from a minus player

 

[bac2therac]

Dylan and Ace may never come. If they come it is for 1 year.

fools gold perhaps

 

[BigEastPhil]

Happy Birthday Bac !

My thoughts :

- We were out toughed by Princeton. They had so many second chances and ours were quite limited.

- Pike was out coached. There must have been 5-6 times when Princeton isolated Simpson and Austin Williams under the basket for easy points. 10-12 points were given up

- Entire first unit was atrocious - especially Simpson and Hyatt who need to lead by example.

- Mag is our MVP as if we didn’t know that from last year.

- Only players who played well were Woolfolk and Oskar.

- Scheduling Princeton to start a season is tough. I saw it possibly as a plus given extra time to prepare but we were not ready.

- New Year / New Team - same Andre.

- Lack of size / Lack of length and lack of rebounders is a major concern.

- I think at one time we were up either 3 or 5 late in first half and quickly gave up the lead with missed bunnies and out of control shooting.

- In 2nd half every time we tied game or came within 1 possession - we could not get a stop

Hope my fear after 1st half of St. John’s game that this will be a challenging season doesn’t come to fruition.

 

[RU848789]

Tonight was a mess all around but it is my birthday so I will try to keep this recap focused and perhaps short.

Could not quite make sense of what I saw at that crappy outdated arena but it starts and ends with that this game never ever should have been scheduled.

A half filled arena dominated by Rutgers fans with a limited amount of Princeton fans basically said THIS IS NOT A RIVALRY GAME. The fantasy land of the 60s and 70s a few of our alums and NJ media live in does not exist. You cannot go back and force something that isnt there. Still they tried and they succeeded and got Hobbs to buy in. To make matters worse instead of scheduling the game at the RAC or even Jadwin it was plopped in a crappy outdated arena in Trenton....just screaming big time atmosphere right. To their credit RU fans showed up in decent numbers and were ready to get loud and did when RU would get close but alas the overall performance rendered the crowd a non factor

So one could guess Pikiell who we know likes to play a softer non conference schedule especially early was likely forced into playing this game and then hit with the double whammy of having to play this game as the season opener. For a team that lost 3 key starters and was now going to have to put returning players and new players in more prominent roles it was a recipe for disaster. Stepping back, can anyone really be surprised at what we saw tonight. Pikiell clearly does not have the program ready or in a spot to be able to win a game in this kind of spot. Pike is just trying to figure out the rotations and the combos. Playing Boston U and Bryant gives you an opportunity to work things in gradually, Princeton does not. One of the worst programs to throw your team out there on opening night. Pike was in a really really tough spot. So while I think overall he was outcoached and the players were outplayed and outhustled, I am somewhat forgiving.

I am furious this game was scheduled because it put a young team in a 0-1 hole that was not really necessary. I do not think there was a huge amount of positives to take out of this game because Princeton was such an unorthodox opponent to play against that say judging a Gavin Griffiths or a Noah Fernandes performance against Princeton is not only not fair but almost impossible. The one thing we did learn is this team has a ton of work ahead of them and so does Pikiell. I also think once again some of the staff of this site and NJ journalists fall in love too much with what happens in practice and overated that come gameday. It would appear from tonight that everyone on this team needs to keep getting better. I do not fault some bad play from newcomers. However it may be fair to say guys like Derek, Cliff, Aundre were pretty big letdowns tonight. To combat Princeton you needed steadiness and headiness and those 3 didnt bring it and rode pine for substantial time.

I keep seeing MESS in my head for tonight but I think I am wrong and should not dwell on that. Get back to me after the Boston U games and then a reassessment after Bryant. Should we expect that losing Cam, Caleb, and Paul was not going to be a huge dropoff. Some led us to believe that and all of suddens 3-4 newcomers were going to plug right in. Well I do not think it works that way especially since they are all unproven plus we are forcing 2 players in Derek and Hyatt (with Mag out) into greater roles. When that was done last year, it was not pretty. To just take a leap forward you need more than faith. I am okay with what Pike did with Griffiths. A teaching moment in a game where Gavin was going to be immediately thrown to the wolves against a well coached well oiled Princeton machine. As good as Gavin's press clippings are, that is probably too much to ask.

The team was discombobulated with no flow, no purpose and fell into too much trying to make the play ball and in general they didnt respect Princeton coming into the game. Those fit into all the trappings of why this game never should have been played. And even with the mess on the court tonight Rutgers still found themselves within 4 points with about 2 minutes to go. Yet I never got the sense the leadership or chutzpah was there to pull this win off. I also come away not necessarily mad or angry about the performance itself which is sort of odd for me. I do not think Pike actually is all that broken up about it either. It is what it is. A messy performance in a game that should have not been scheduled. I am okay with this. I always felt that expecations this year need to be tempered a bit but that this team could be a NCAA team if things fell into place anywhere from 17-14 to 21-10 and I still do....at least for now.

Not going to overreact because I just cannot figure out what we are just yet and I do not think Pike and his team knows what they are yet. So we hope to get through these all important lesser 5-6 games without absorbing a loss and working on rotations and combos and developing confidence and strength. The minute distribution was odd. The 4 guys who contributed the most was unexpected....Austin, Oskar, Jamike, Wolf. The 3 guys contributing the least was startling somewhat (Derek, Gavin, Hyatt). Up is down and down is up. Is this a one off. I do not know. Very odd and very messy but perhaps very understandable

I will have more to say on this game and individual stuff perhaps in the next couple of days but for now lets leave it here. No need to overreact and a need to understand that this is going to be a challenging task for Pike to replace what we lost in identity and confidence with a largely brand new group.

Had similar thoughts in my post and agree the timing of this game was bad, even though I love playing Princeton (just not as an opener). Happy Birthday and speaking of which, a woman in front of us had a great sign you could steal as it was also her BD: it said, "There was an important Rutgers birthday 154 years ago, today, and a there was also another important Rutgers birthday 27 years ago - mine!"

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

BEP…. Very nervous. Outside of Woolfolk every pkayer disappointed me. The biggest being how lost Gavin was on D.

 

[motorb54]

I know this is sacrilegious to older fans - but I couldn't care less about playing Princeton.
Just another non-P5 opponent to me (Class of 2006).

I don't think they are nearly the draw some thing they are.

Don't you need two excited fanbases for it to be a rivalry?

Unless you are at least 75 years old you do not care about, or see, Princeton as a rivalry game.

 

[bac2therac]

Had similar thoughts in my post and agree the timing of this game was bad, even though I love playing Princeton (just not as an opener). Happy Birthday and speaking of which, a woman in front of us had a great sign you could steal as it was also her BD: it said, "There was an important Rutgers birthday 154 years ago, today, and a there was also another important Rutgers birthday 27 years ago - mine!"

Thanks....I could be her dad, im 54 so 100 years after Rutgers bday

 

[Joey Bacala]

Better hope Mag comes back soon. We need him in the worst way.

Late in the game we let two consecutive possessions go uncontested for layups and basically rolled out the red carpet for them. Isn’t Defense our calling card? Holy cow.

This revolving door of guards - yikes. I realize Simpson wasn’t great but he can’t ride the bench most of the second half in favor of JMike and Williams. Pike needs to define roles for these guards. Simpson and JMike are PGs. Fernandes is a 2G, not sure what Williams is. If Palmquist is getting all of Mags minutes we are going to struggle. What I saw tonite could best be described as “experimentation.”

 

[goru7]

Please understand no one is specifically insulting Princeton. The opposite. We’re saying how dangerous they are. The fact that it will be a Q3 loss is why it wasn’t a “solid” opponent for the schedule

Princeton will not be a Quad 3 loss , likely Quad 2 but who cares? It is game 1. We have to rebound from this loss and win games to be in position for it to matter. That starts with 4 of our 5 starters not pulling a no show. Princeton is not a team any committee would say is a bad team ever. Our strength of schedule is the highest it has ever been after Game 1. We lost by 7 not 20. We have to get a lot better for this to matter

 

[Groz]

Tonight was a mess all around but it is my birthday so I will try to keep this recap focused and perhaps short.

Could not quite make sense of what I saw at that crappy outdated arena but it starts and ends with that this game never ever should have been scheduled.

A half filled arena dominated by Rutgers fans with a limited amount of Princeton fans basically said THIS IS NOT A RIVALRY GAME. The fantasy land of the 60s and 70s a few of our alums and NJ media live in does not exist. You cannot go back and force something that isnt there. Still they tried and they succeeded and got Hobbs to buy in. To make matters worse instead of scheduling the game at the RAC or even Jadwin it was plopped in a crappy outdated arena in Trenton....just screaming big time atmosphere right. To their credit RU fans showed up in decent numbers and were ready to get loud and did when RU would get close but alas the overall performance rendered the crowd a non factor

So one could guess Pikiell who we know likes to play a softer non conference schedule especially early was likely forced into playing this game and then hit with the double whammy of having to play this game as the season opener. For a team that lost 3 key starters and was now going to have to put returning players and new players in more prominent roles it was a recipe for disaster. Stepping back, can anyone really be surprised at what we saw tonight. Pikiell clearly does not have the program ready or in a spot to be able to win a game in this kind of spot. Pike is just trying to figure out the rotations and the combos. Playing Boston U and Bryant gives you an opportunity to work things in gradually, Princeton does not. One of the worst programs to throw your team out there on opening night. Pike was in a really really tough spot. So while I think overall he was outcoached and the players were outplayed and outhustled, I am somewhat forgiving.

I am furious this game was scheduled because it put a young team in a 0-1 hole that was not really necessary. I do not think there was a huge amount of positives to take out of this game because Princeton was such an unorthodox opponent to play against that say judging a Gavin Griffiths or a Noah Fernandes performance against Princeton is not only not fair but almost impossible. The one thing we did learn is this team has a ton of work ahead of them and so does Pikiell. I also think once again some of the staff of this site and NJ journalists fall in love too much with what happens in practice and overated that come gameday. It would appear from tonight that everyone on this team needs to keep getting better. I do not fault some bad play from newcomers. However it may be fair to say guys like Derek, Cliff, Aundre were pretty big letdowns tonight. To combat Princeton you needed steadiness and headiness and those 3 didnt bring it and rode pine for substantial time.

I keep seeing MESS in my head for tonight but I think I am wrong and should not dwell on that. Get back to me after the Boston U games and then a reassessment after Bryant. Should we expect that losing Cam, Caleb, and Paul was not going to be a huge dropoff. Some led us to believe that and all of suddens 3-4 newcomers were going to plug right in. Well I do not think it works that way especially since they are all unproven plus we are forcing 2 players in Derek and Hyatt (with Mag out) into greater roles. When that was done last year, it was not pretty. To just take a leap forward you need more than faith. I am okay with what Pike did with Griffiths. A teaching moment in a game where Gavin was going to be immediately thrown to the wolves against a well coached well oiled Princeton machine. As good as Gavin's press clippings are, that is probably too much to ask.

The team was discombobulated with no flow, no purpose and fell into too much trying to make the play ball and in general they didnt respect Princeton coming into the game. Those fit into all the trappings of why this game never should have been played. And even with the mess on the court tonight Rutgers still found themselves within 4 points with about 2 minutes to go. Yet I never got the sense the leadership or chutzpah was there to pull this win off. I also come away not necessarily mad or angry about the performance itself which is sort of odd for me. I do not think Pike actually is all that broken up about it either. It is what it is. A messy performance in a game that should have not been scheduled. I am okay with this. I always felt that expecations this year need to be tempered a bit but that this team could be a NCAA team if things fell into place anywhere from 17-14 to 21-10 and I still do....at least for now.

Not going to overreact because I just cannot figure out what we are just yet and I do not think Pike and his team knows what they are yet. So we hope to get through these all important lesser 5-6 games without absorbing a loss and working on rotations and combos and developing confidence and strength. The minute distribution was odd. The 4 guys who contributed the most was unexpected....Austin, Oskar, Jamike, Wolf. The 3 guys contributing the least was startling somewhat (Derek, Gavin, Hyatt). Up is down and down is up. Is this a one off. I do not know. Very odd and very messy but perhaps very understandable

I will have more to say on this game and individual stuff perhaps in the next couple of days but for now lets leave it here. No need to overreact and a need to understand that this is going to be a challenging task for Pike to replace what we lost in identity and confidence with a largely brand new group.

Excellent recap again as usual Bac and Happy Birthday!!

Driving to this arena, I could not believe how dark(so few lights) it is around in all the streets near the arena. I had only been there once before when we played Rider years ago. This game should not have been played in Trenton. If they wanted to play for the Deborah Charity, they should have found a way to surcharge or get extra donations for this game at home or at Jadwin.

Lastly, this is one of the only times that Google Maps has ever had wrong directions(for me) in getting right to the arena.

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

HBD bac

 

[RUChoppin]

Our oldest rivalry game.

Except it isn't our oldest rivalry in basketball, either.

Our first game with Princeton was during the 1916-17 season. Our first game with Lehigh was in 1906-07 (105 meetings), and our first game with Seton Hall was in 1915-16 (73 meetings).

Of those three "oldest" rivalries... only Seton Hall remains one.

 

[RUChoppin]

Princeton will not be a Quad 3 loss , likely Quad 2 but who cares? It is game 1. We have to rebound from this loss and win games to be in position for it to matter. That starts with 4 of our 5 starters not pulling a no show. Princeton is not a team any committee would say is a bad team ever. Our strength of schedule is the highest it has ever been after Game 1. We lost by 7 not 20. We have to get a lot better for this to matter

Princeton has never finished as a Q2 team. They have no other NET Top 100 teams left in their OOC schedule, and the Ivy League slate holds only Yale. Unless Yale has very strong showings against Kansas and Gonzaga, we may be Princeton's only Q1/Q2 win of the year (assuming we finish in NET double digits).

Very hard to get up to Q2 in the formula when you don't really play many Q1/Q2 opponents. We were their one quality OOC game - and beating us certainly will start their NET off high in the early going. But it will steadily fall as their SOS gets worse and worse throughout the season.

 

[darkcheck]

Princeton will not be a Quad 3 loss , likely Quad 2 but who cares? It is game 1. We have to rebound from this loss and win games to be in position for it to matter. That starts with 4 of our 5 starters not pulling a no show. Princeton is not a team any committee would say is a bad team ever. Our strength of schedule is the highest it has ever been after Game 1. We lost by 7 not 20. We have to get a lot better for this to matter

Sorry but Princeton was a quad three team last year on selection sunday

 

[S_Janowski]

I would’ve kept Hyatt in the same role off ball and on the wing and in the corners.

That’s a good spot for Hyatt when he’s missing bunnies and getting dominated on the glass.

There or the bench…

 

[winfield102]

That was a good team. It's a long season so I don't want to get too worked up but that was a stinker by RU.

Curious to see how Simpson does this year. If the program continues to rise, he won't start when he is a senior. Every time he touched the ball, nothing but bad things happened. The mid range shots off the dribble (beyond 15 feet) must stop immediately. He is so inefficient shooting. Last year we needed someone to shoot the ball, regardless of the type of shot. Not needed this year. I'll take Noah at the 1.

 

[Joey Bags]

Game felt a lot like that loss at Fordham a while back.

It would be fun playing Princeton if they actually had fans. Where did they all go? They just came off a sweet 16…

 

[Unionst]

Well said as usual. One thing we learned yet again, is never buy into the pre-season press clippings when it comes to our roster or our offense.

But everyone will do it again next year and the year after that. Those of us who hinted at weakness from the open practice were shouted down and quickly shut up. Yes our defense was poor tonight but my biggest concern was rebounding and that our only shooter was tied to the bench.

 

[AM ClocksPF]

Cliff will NEVER make an NBA roster, he is not a fluid BB player.

Hyatt, I love this BB skills but I have never seen anyone miss so many shots right around the basket. He has a beautiful looking outside shot but he hesitates, he can drive to the basket but does not finish, mostly in and out of the basket. Amazing.

Davis - I don't see what so many like about him. He is not a good shooter, he plays out of control while driving to the basket, he does not break down the D and then dish to open people. I know he will improve but some were saying he looked great in practice, I didn't see it tonight.

Fernandes - I don't understand why he got so much playing time. Not a good shooter, makes mistakes, not good on D. What am I missing with him?

Simpson - Worst game of his career yesterday. I know he is better that what he showed last night.

Wolf - played very well, should have gotten more time.

 

[bac2therac]

Love the analysis BAC, always do. I’m not as optimistic though because while it was only one game, this team had the benefit of the summer trip and additional practice to be ready. To be out rebounded and out hustled the way they were was inexcusable. That shows a lack of heart and that’s hard to make up. Rotations might sharpen against cupcakes but when Seton Hall, IL and Miss St come up will we automatically rebound better and “want” loose balls.

There are definitely things i did not like to see that raise alarms but willing to give Pike the benefit of the doubt. If we are in a life death struggle with Boston U i will not be so forgiving