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GAME 6 SAINT PETER'S: Ready for It?

1) Like many others, I was quite impressed with D both fc press (don’t thing they made us pay once) and in half court;
2) agree GG has too much talent not to get more involved and more minutes;
3) Cliff and Hyatt will continue to put a decent numbers but will also continue to drive me nuts;
4) Cliff gets boards when he is above other players, weak when he has to battle for ball;
5) interested in seeing what Mag can give us, hope we’re not expecting too much;
6) props to Oskar for hard work and improvement;
7) want someone to light a fire under AW, he’s better than he’s shown
8) Noah and Derrick are our guards and floor leaders
9) rebound opponents’ missed ft’s
 
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This thread is almost as bad as the offseason threads this summer. The level of being in denial about the roster and roles is comically bad.

There's a growing number of fans who still don't answer the obvious question about scoring and 3 point shooting and then the conversation eventually twists back to fans disdain for Hyatt and this borderline delusional point of view on a glue guy in Mawot Mag.

The RU team is trying to move to an up tempo faster paced offense.....then when that happens, that actually means players (Simpson, Fernandes, Griffiths and Hyatt) all benefit from being able or capable of taking a shot in transition. Yet, only one of the players (Hyatt) is consistently being dragged for taking the same shot attempts that any of the 4 players should be taking or looking for their own offense.

I will repeat what has been stated now a dozen times.....there is NO path for success, if you don't generate at least 8 to 10 3 point attempts per game from Hyatt and Griffiths.....only because those two players (and maybe Oskar) are the only true capable players of shooting 3s or scoring in transition from those positions.

Yet, I see fans trying to twist themselves into a pretzel, with odd lineups that don't include Hyatt and insert Mag, as if that change is suddenly going to increase the 3 point shot attempts for the team.

If Mawot Mag was that type of player AND he was the plus rebounder, defender and could handle the ball and create his own offense, don't you think he would already be a locked in starter as a freshman or sophomore a couple of years ago??

We are attempting to be not as 3 point reliant on a week to week basis like last year with Spencer and Hyatt, because neither player would consistently try to score off the dribble and maneuver towards the basket. It serves no purpose to believe that RU can play offense and only have one 3 point threat on the court in Gavin Griffiths and not have Hyatt as a 2nd option on the wing, to compliment the guards or Cliff inside.

I get fans dislike for Hyatt is that strong, that they're blinded into other lineups.....but in a team sport, players are asked to not just do what Hyatt did last year and be a stationary, corner 3 point shooter. He is being asked to do more than that......yet the fanbase actually discussing this as if the staff doesn't need him to do that or require the player to do that, somehow is lost here.

Who else beyond Gavin or Hyatt, is a threat from 3 point range, can actually put the ball on the floor and maneuver to score?? Is it Oskar, Chol....Are we ready to allow Woolfolk that freedom or has he shown that skill set to do that?? The answer is "No".....

So it is Hyatt or bust folks....there is no skill set that has been shown in any games played, that Mawot Mag is that type of offensive player, catch and shoot 3 point player or has that skill set. He is a defensive rebounding forward first, a glue guy, good help defender and if he is left open as the 5th option on the floor and is unguarded, should be able to score. That is his game folks, nothing more and especially not in transition, being asked to catch and shoot before a defense is set.

The team (including Hyatt, Simpson, Davis, Fernandes and others) are being asked to drive into open lanes presented by the defense and create shot opportunities to score, then dish to find another player. No one is preventing anyone from cutting to the open space and finding room to score. It does take time to develop a new offense and new mindset, yet fans want microwave results, 6 games into a season.

I would like to see the fans provide actual objective and real discussions, it's to a point where basketball evaluation and reality is being twisted into ways of the land of make believe. This is big-time basketball and requires a full skill set and options to play multiple styles. Last years slow down style, didn't work over a 4 month timeframe.....thinking about players in last year's context, isn't reality for this year's roster.
I made the point earlier that (with a couple of exceptions this past game) Hyatt has mostly been taking decent looks from three. He's not hitting at the rate we need to succeed. But he's taking the shots that this offense is designed to generate. Clean looks from three are good shots for your wing! He just needs to hit them at the league average.

In answer to this question:
Who else beyond Gavin or Hyatt, is a threat from 3 point range, can actually put the ball on the floor and maneuver to score??

Simpson and Fernandez are both in that category.
 
Derek is the point guard and it is great when he scores, but the onus has to be on the 3 point guards to get others the ball. All preseason I was hearing that we will be better offensively because our guards can get in the paint and get easy buckets for Cliff. I am still waiting for our guards to penetrate and look for others as opposed to having their head down and trying to get to the rim.

I did see one play last night where Noah penetrated under control, with his head up looking for Cliff, and when help stayed on Cliff he made the right play and scored.

This is an ironic post because there's nothing wrong with anything in this post.....it is actually 100% correct......but at the same time, when I advocated last year to have Simpson play significantly more minutes and time and to get more development, all I saw was how important Mulcahy was to running the offense etc etc.

In order to have players ready to step into roles when their number is called, requires moving other players out of the way OR reducing their roles then, so others can be ready.

Maybe if Simpson was cultivated more last year after his breakout game vs Indiana at the RAC and we didn't immediately revert back to giving Mulcahy the ball, would we be better off this year.

Soooo..... we now fast forward a few months and if I am looking forward to a 2024 freshman class that has talent and athletic abilities......and that means finding roles and minutes for Simpson, Davis, Griffiths and Woolfolk this year.. to build in a level of experience and track record in 2023-24, so that when the 2024 class arrives, we are not playing with a bunch of inexperienced players, all thrown together at the same time.

It requires the guards that are expected or likely to be here, to play this year.....you can't have it both ways and expect Mulcahy and Spencer to dominate backcourt minutes in 2023-24 here and then expect Simpson to develop into a leadership role, playing 12 minutes off the bench.

There are items bigger than just one season at hand. Every player needs to develop and a path to grow, play, learn from their mistakes of "driving with their heads down, not looking for teammates"......you cannot learn and play through mistakes sitting next to Coach Pike, Knight and TJ on the bench.
 
I made the point earlier that (with a couple of exceptions this past game) Hyatt has mostly been taking decent looks from three. He's not hitting at the rate we need to succeed. But he's taking the shots that this offense is designed to generate. Clean looks from three are good shots for your wing! He just needs to hit them at the league average.

In answer to this question:


Simpson and Fernandez are both in that category.

Yes and No, those 3s will come within the flow of half court offense. There are 3s available, in transition, that require your wing players to take and make those shots....those are the shot attempts along with those shots that Hyatt is required to generate in the half court as well.

I agree that we are better equipped to get a solid amount of 3s from Simpson and Fernandes, much more than Mulcahy and hoping a defense makes a mistake or loses track of Spencer. We can get those 3 point attempts from Griffiths, that doesn't require the defense making an error in coverage.
 
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Hawk
How many times have guards penetrated and passed this year? It might actually be ZERO

Your optimal rotation in a world that Mag is healthy (utopia)
1 and 2 3 Pg and a will
3 griffiths 28 hyatt 12
4 mag 28 hyatt or woolfolk 12
5 cliff 29 woolfolk 11

You keep saying we cant win playing slow. What has happened the last 4 years? We win playing slow and defending. It works!

This whole play fast and uptempo and 80 point stuff is just Dylan Harper bait.

St. Peters decided they will play Cliff straight up and our team (players and coaches) couldnt crack the code. If you think we are best to have Hyatt taking off balance 3s off the dribble and Simpson taking full speed trips at the basket with only one plan then i dont know what to say.

Every Hyatt attempt is an attempt Cliff or Gavin doesnt get
 
This is an ironic post because there's nothing wrong with anything in this post.....it is actually 100% correct......but at the same time, when I advocated last year to have Simpson play significantly more minutes and time and to get more development, all I saw was how important Mulcahy was to running the offense etc etc.

In order to have players ready to step into roles when their number is called, requires moving other players out of the way OR reducing their roles then, so others can be ready.

Maybe if Simpson was cultivated more last year after his breakout game vs Indiana at the RAC and we didn't immediately revert back to giving Mulcahy the ball, would we be better off this year.

Soooo..... we now fast forward a few months and if I am looking forward to a 2024 freshman class that has talent and athletic abilities......and that means finding roles and minutes for Simpson, Davis, Griffiths and Woolfolk this year.. to build in a level of experience and track record in 2023-24, so that when the 2024 class arrives, we are not playing with a bunch of inexperienced players, all thrown together at the same time.

It requires the guards that are expected or likely to be here, to play this year.....you can't have it both ways and expect Mulcahy and Spencer to dominate backcourt minutes in 2023-24 here and then expect Simpson to develop into a leadership role, playing 12 minutes off the bench.

There are items bigger than just one season at hand. Every player needs to develop and a path to grow, play, learn from their mistakes of "driving with their heads down, not looking for teammates"......you cannot learn and play through mistakes sitting next to Coach Pike, Knight and TJ on the bench.
Honesty time…………do you see Simpson as a 20+MPG point guard as a junior and senior. Is it possible he is more equipped to be a 2 guard and maybe provide backup minutes at PG?
 
Did Jacob Young have the ability to drive in to the paint and have the optionality of scoring or passing? NO

Corey Sanders? NO

Paul? Absolutely

Is it worth occupying 7 seconds of the 18 or so seconds you get to get a shot off…….most times no

I think, i dont know, Fernandes has the best chance of being that player.

My thoughts is he is the guy on this team I want 26 minutes per game as the “point guard”. The other 14….?
 
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The staff has likely been holding back some legitimate offensive wrinkles to gain a competitive advantage against better competition in the upcoming weeks. At least I hope so
 
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Maybe I’m alone here but I for one was very encouraged last night. Our defensive intensity was incredible. We have three guards that can be elite defenders and we can press for most of the game because of our depth. St. Peter’s has several athletic guards and they could barely get the ball across half court on most possessions. When they did, the couldn't get into a set until there was 10-15 seconds on the shot clock. We turned them over at an insane clip.

I worry too about the offense but pikiell has proven year after year he can win games on the defensive end and last night was Jacob young level D from the guards. There are a lot of new pieces and no mag. The team should improve as the year goes on.

Yup. The defense was the story of the game. The guard pressure looks amazing. Now imagine the press with Mag back. He was probably the best presser I've ever seen

This is big bc a lot of people had worries our defense would take a decent step back this season, but it could end up being just as good or even better. The rebounding is now much more of a concern than the defense, but Mag will help with that as well

If the defense can be actually elite again this season, we don't need the offense to score 80. We can still win games with the offense not being a well oiled machine. Hopefully we see more consistency and rhythm on offense, but the D looks like it may be able to keep us in almost every game again this season

If the offense comes around, watch out
 
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This thread is almost as bad as the offseason threads this summer. The level of being in denial about the roster and roles is comically bad.

There's a growing number of fans who still don't answer the obvious question about scoring and 3 point shooting and then the conversation eventually twists back to fans disdain for Hyatt and this borderline delusional point of view on a glue guy in Mawot Mag.

The RU team is trying to move to an up tempo faster paced offense.....then when that happens, that actually means players (Simpson, Fernandes, Griffiths and Hyatt) all benefit from being able or capable of taking a shot in transition. Yet, only one of the players (Hyatt) is consistently being dragged for taking the same shot attempts that any of the 4 players should be taking or looking for their own offense.

I will repeat what has been stated now a dozen times.....there is NO path for success, if you don't generate at least 8 to 10 3 point attempts per game from Hyatt and Griffiths.....only because those two players (and maybe Oskar) are the only true capable players of shooting 3s or scoring in transition from those positions.

Yet, I see fans trying to twist themselves into a pretzel, with odd lineups that don't include Hyatt and insert Mag, as if that change is suddenly going to increase the 3 point shot attempts for the team.

If Mawot Mag was that type of player AND he was the plus rebounder, defender and could handle the ball and create his own offense, don't you think he would already be a locked in starter as a freshman or sophomore a couple of years ago??

We are attempting to be not as 3 point reliant on a week to week basis like last year with Spencer and Hyatt, because neither player would consistently try to score off the dribble and maneuver towards the basket. It serves no purpose to believe that RU can play offense and only have one 3 point threat on the court in Gavin Griffiths and not have Hyatt as a 2nd option on the wing, to compliment the guards or Cliff inside.

I get fans dislike for Hyatt is that strong, that they're blinded into other lineups.....but in a team sport, players are asked to not just do what Hyatt did last year and be a stationary, corner 3 point shooter. He is being asked to do more than that......yet the fanbase actually discussing this as if the staff doesn't need him to do that or require the player to do that, somehow is lost here.

Who else beyond Gavin or Hyatt, is a threat from 3 point range, can actually put the ball on the floor and maneuver to score?? Is it Oskar, Chol....Are we ready to allow Woolfolk that freedom or has he shown that skill set to do that?? The answer is "No".....

So it is Hyatt or bust folks....there is no skill set that has been shown in any games played, that Mawot Mag is that type of offensive player, catch and shoot 3 point player or has that skill set. He is a defensive rebounding forward first, a glue guy, good help defender and if he is left open as the 5th option on the floor and is unguarded, should be able to score. That is his game folks, nothing more and especially not in transition, being asked to catch and shoot before a defense is set.

The team (including Hyatt, Simpson, Davis, Fernandes and others) are being asked to drive into open lanes presented by the defense and create shot opportunities to score, then dish to find another player. No one is preventing anyone from cutting to the open space and finding room to score. It does take time to develop a new offense and new mindset, yet fans want microwave results, 6 games into a season.

I would like to see the fans provide actual objective and real discussions, it's to a point where basketball evaluation and reality is being twisted into ways of the land of make believe. This is big-time basketball and requires a full skill set and options to play multiple styles. Last years slow down style, didn't work over a 4 month timeframe.....thinking about players in last year's context, isn't reality for this year's roster.
The land of make believe is you constantly pushing the factually disproven Hyatt is a good 3 point shooter narrative. If he actually was, your points would make sense. You base everything off this falsehood to support your argument which is why no one takes it seriously

Hyatt is a career 28.8% 3 point shooter... 5 years into college. 5 yearsssss. That’s as big of a sample as you will get for college stats. Nothing you say will change the fact that is just not good. It isn't even close to being good if we are being honest. I mean hell Mag is at a career 28% for perspective.

If you want to say Hyatt hasn't been good, but predict he has a breakout final season and does finally shoot it well... sure, fine. It's unlikely but possible. I actually think Hyatt does have a career year from 3. It still wouldn't change his entire career prior to this season that he wasn't a good 3 point shooter though

Why do you keep insisting Hyatt should take a ton of 3's bc no one else on the team can but Gavin... Noah is a career 37% 3 point shooter who shot 45% last year. He is clearly a better 3 point shooter who we should all want taking more 3's than Hyatt. Why not replace Hyatt with Noah and make the same point? Only this one would be backed by data that supports your take instead of disproves it

Oskar Chol both better, but have other issues. Williams shoots a better percentage as well. Simpson was terrible last year but 50% this year. It's certainly possible he ends up being a 30% or better 3 point shooter

It's not like Hyatt is taking these 3's off the dribble going one on one for step back created 3's like Geo. They are all basically open set catch and shoot 3's with his feet set. There's no argument that something like degree of difficulty is pulling down his percentage
 
Derek is the point guard and it is great when he scores, but the onus has to be on the 3 point guards to get others the ball. All preseason I was hearing that we will be better offensively because our guards can get in the paint and get easy buckets for Cliff. I am still waiting for our guards to penetrate and look for others as opposed to having their head down and trying to get to the rim.

I did see one play last night where Noah penetrated under control, with his head up looking for Cliff, and when help stayed on Cliff he made the right play and scored.
You can see the difference in the SR pt G, soph and true fresh who is still a bit raw at finishing at the rim. Kid can play D, get up the floor and pass so hopefully finishing and his shot improve...Gunna have to be patient though...Still a lot of new players getting minutes on this team...Gavin should def get more minutes and shots...We'll see Saturday, Be loud!
 
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I see a 2 guard....just not a point guard. Problem is for a 2 guard he doesn't have a great shot and doesn't have size. I get why we want him to be a point guard.

Could be totally wrong here.....I just feel in most cases you arrive on campus as a PG or not a PG. Tough to at age 17 all of a sudden to switch a gear and be a guy who is the QB of the offense.

Didn't follow Geo Baker before college. Maybe he is an example that proved me wrong.
 
I see a 2 guard....just not a point guard. Problem is for a 2 guard he doesn't have a great shot and doesn't have size. I get why we want him to be a point guard.

Could be totally wrong here.....I just feel in most cases you arrive on campus as a PG or not a PG. Tough to at age 17 all of a sudden to switch a gear and be a guy who is the QB of the offense.

Didn't follow Geo Baker before college. Maybe he is an example that proved me wrong.
Baker caught my eye as a passer from day one in the scrimmage against St. John's.
 
The land of make believe is you constantly pushing the factually disproven Hyatt is a good 3 point shooter narrative. If he actually was, your points would make sense. You base everything off this falsehood to support your argument which is why no one takes it seriously

Hyatt is a career 28.8% 3 point shooter... 5 years into college. 5 yearsssss. That’s as big of a sample as you will get for college stats. Nothing you say will change the fact that is just not good. It isn't even close to being good if we are being honest. I mean hell Mag is at a career 28% for perspective.

If you want to say Hyatt hasn't been good, but predict he has a breakout final season and does finally shoot it well... sure, fine. It's unlikely but possible. I actually think Hyatt does have a career year from 3. It still wouldn't change his entire career prior to this season that he wasn't a good 3 point shooter though

Why do you keep insisting Hyatt should take a ton of 3's bc no one else on the team can but Gavin... Noah is a career 37% 3 point shooter who shot 45% last year. He is clearly a better 3 point shooter who we should all want taking more 3's than Hyatt. Why not replace Hyatt with Noah and make the same point? Only this one would be backed by data that supports your take instead of disproves it

Oskar Chol both better, but have other issues. Williams shoots a better percentage as well. Simpson was terrible last year but 50% this year. It's certainly possible he ends up being a 30% or better 3 point shooter

It's not like Hyatt is taking these 3's off the dribble going one on one for step back created 3's like Geo. They are all basically open set catch and shoot 3's with his feet set. There's no argument that something like degree of difficulty is pulling down his percentage
Good post.

Hyatt is shooting 30% from 3-pt range this year, which is very poor compared to the rest of college basketball, but "not bad" for a Rutgers team that struggles from deep.

In response to Hawk, I actually don't have a problem with MOST of the threes Hyatt has taken this year. Most of them have been within the rhythm of the offense, and just a few were ill-advised "I gotta get mine" type shots.

Where I've had any problem with Hyatt this year is the handful of times he tries to back down his man into the post and takes bad shots. He's generally solid when he is fed deep in the post, but when he starts out 15+ feet from the basket and either backs down or dribble drives, it usually (almost always?) ends up in a miss or TO.
 
One thing I'll say about Paul Mulcahy: he wanted to win more than any other player I've ever seen. He would literally cry on the court sometimes when we'd lose. Does a single player on our team care like that anymore? Clearly not our captain, Cliff.
 
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