How do we get Thiam more shot attempts?

[soundcrib]

http://static.scarletknights.com/custompages/mbball/teamcume.htm

His %'s are very good! Corey needs more help. Thiam is a guy that can give it to him if he just unleashes himself from within.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If you want to increase his attempts you get out in transition more, if you get out in transition more your defensive rebounding suffers and you extend the game more possessions.

EVERY TEAM needs offensive production out of the 2 and 3. Quite frankly against better competition we aren't getting it. We are the worst (statisticly) offensive team of any P6 school by a wide margin. Quite remarkable (bordering on impossible) considering how good we are offensive rebounding and lack of turnovers. We'd be a NCAA team if we got average offensive production out of our shooting guard and small forward positions.

The good news is that is where Pikiell has recruited.

 

[RUChoppin]

If you want to increase his attempts you get out in transition more, if you get out in transition more your defensive rebounding suffers and you extend the game more possessions.

EVERY TEAM needs offensive production out of the 2 and 3. Quite frankly against better competition we aren't getting it. We are the worst (statisticly) offensive team of any P6 school by a wide margin. Quite remarkable (bordering on impossible) considering how good we are offensive rebounding and lack of turnovers. We'd be a NCAA team if we got average offensive production out of our shooting guard and small forward positions.

The good news is that is where Pikiell has recruited.

Also, Thiam and Omoruyi will see improvement as we go into next year. The jump from last year has been significant - building on that into next year should make them even better.

It's clear that Thiam's confidence shooting the ball has improved (30.3% to 39.4% from range), but he's shooting fewer threes per minute this year (while grabbing way more rebounds, though - which clearly was a point of focus in his development). In the offseason, he needs to work on getting his shot off faster, and shooting off of screens. If he could get his shot attempts up over 6 per game, he could be an 11/5 guy on the wing while still playing 27 min or so.

With Omoruyi, he needs to work on his FT shooting - even shooting 70%, he'd be a 9/5 player right now in just 21 min. With 25+ min next year after Freeman graduates, that could go up to 11/6. He's gotten much better at drawing fouls - he needs to convert them to points at the line. Excited to see his development over the next two years.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

If you want to increase his attempts you get out in transition more, if you get out in transition more your defensive rebounding suffers and you extend the game more possessions.

EVERY TEAM needs offensive production out of the 2 and 3. Quite frankly against better competition we aren't getting it. We are the worst (statisticly) offensive team of any P6 school by a wide margin. Quite remarkable (bordering on impossible) considering how good we are offensive rebounding and lack of turnovers. We'd be a NCAA team if we got average offensive production out of our shooting guard and small forward positions.

The good news is that is where Pikiell has recruited.

This is why we have, coming in,

Mathis
Harper
Kiss

And maybe

Hyatt

 

[Scarlet Shack]

http://static.scarletknights.com/custompages/mbball/teamcume.htm

His %'s are very good! Corey needs more help. Thiam is a guy that can give it to him if he just unleashes himself from within.

I love how hard thiam has worked, but his game requires him a lot of space to cleanly get his shot off ...and while he has shown signs of doing a little bit off the bounce, most of his game is spot and shoot

Filling out more and a lot more lower body S&C is critical here for him to get more physical, so he can run off those screens to get his shots

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

If you want to increase his attempts you get out in transition more, if you get out in transition more your defensive rebounding suffers and you extend the game more possessions.

EVERY TEAM needs offensive production out of the 2 and 3. Quite frankly against better competition we aren't getting it. We are the worst (statisticly) offensive team of any P6 school by a wide margin. Quite remarkable (bordering on impossible) considering how good we are offensive rebounding and lack of turnovers. We'd be a NCAA team if we got average offensive production out of our shooting guard and small forward positions.

The good news is that is where Pikiell has recruited.

+1000 This is what is separating us form being a very good team.

 

[bac2therac]

I love how hard thiam has worked, but his game requires him a lot of space to cleanly get his shot off ...and while he has shown signs of doing a little bit off the bounce, most of his game is spot and shoot

Filling out more and a lot more lower body S&C is critical here for him to get more physical, so he can run off those screens to get his shots

S&C in the off season for Thiam is crucial

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

His 6'10'' is definitely playing dividends on the defensive end. Unfortunately he is 6'2'' on the offensive end. In the 1st half he has the lane to himself with a smaller defender. He needs some lower body strength and some learning on how to be a threat there. He needs to spend time in the station with Duocoure, Myles Johnson and Shaq working on how to post up and then obviously what to do when he gets the ball.

 

[RU-ROCS]

Thiam's release is getting quicker, which should help him shoot around screens. His new ability to drive to the hoop should also help him get more looks from distance. I think he has a very nice upside -- he plays very solid D and continues to improve in virtually every aspect of his game, especially rebounding.

 

[RUChoppin]

I think that's all coming - he still has a lot to work on, but he's not even half way through his career here. Big leaps from freshman to sophomore year in a lot of categories - hopefully more leaps are coming next year, too.

Pike prioritizes defense and rebounding, and Thiam seems to have improved the most in those areas. Now that he's seemingly internalized that, I'd imagine more focus will be spent on refinement of his offensive game.

He's already taking far more 2P FGs than last year, and his shooting % has gone up across the board. Adjusting for minutes played, he's better in pretty much every statistical category than last year except for three pointers attempted.

With more experience coming in the conference slate, and another offseason of S&C and practice, I expect him to be a major contributor as an upperclassman next year.

 

[goru7]

http://static.scarletknights.com/custompages/mbball/teamcume.htm

His %'s are very good! Corey needs more help. Thiam is a guy that can give it to him if he just unleashes himself from within.

I think he has to put it on the deck and drive more and if he gets resistance, he has to alleviate and pull up from 2 point range. That stupid weave last night had Issa and Mike moving further away from the basket and they were both not aggressive trying to take it to the baseline. Every single time if they got it last on the weave, they headed outside instead of to the hoop. Big issue and mistake last night as Issa only took 5 shots after already hitting 2 threes in the first half and Mike only took 6 shots despite getting the ball a ton on the wing. Also Geo going 1-9 killed us as well. As Greene states above, the production from the 2 and 3 spots has to improve if we are going to win games like last night’s. Agressive , agressive , agressive has to be their mindset.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Thaim's numbers will be efficient in the shots he has to take, but not in the shots he should, and even less in the shots he could take.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

He's already taking far more 2P FGs than last year, and his shooting % has gone up across the board. Adjusting for minutes played, he's better in pretty much every statistical category than last year except for three pointers attempted.

That's actually not true looking at conference games so far.
STAT......this year.....last year
minutes....136.....295
2 pt FGs...3-8....8-18.....same
3 pt FG....5-13...7-39....reduction in amount of attempts
FTs.........2-2.....2-4.......same
rebs.......13......31........same
points....23......39........slight increase

 

[MadRU]

Its all about strength. Thiam needs to add strength especially in his legs, but his upper body too. Added strength would allow him to get into an threatening position quicker on offense, whether its having his legs under him faster and stronger for a jump shot, or to push off with more explosion on drives.

 

[RUChoppin]

That's actually not true looking at conference games so far.
STAT......this year.....last year
minutes....136.....295
2 pt FGs...3-8....8-18.....same
3 pt FG....5-13...7-39....reduction in amount of attempts
FTs.........2-2.....2-4.......same
rebs.......13......31........same
points....23......39........slight increase

That's also across a sample size of 5 games, where 3 have been against Top 5 teams.

Comparing this year's 5 games against Purdue, Wisconsin, MSU, and Minnesota to last year's 5 games against those same teams...

STAT......this year.....last year
minutes....136.....90
2 pt FGs...3-8....3-8
3 pt FG....5-13...1-9
FTs.........2-2.....0-0
rebs.......13......11
OReb..... 4.....0
DReb..... 9.....11
points....23......9

So, lots more points per minute than last year in those matchups, better % from range, better on the offensive glass... but fewer 2PA, 2PM, and DReb. 3PA was about the same.

Looking at the full slate of OOC games YOY, there's been a big improvement
STAT......this year.....last year
minutes....365.....230
2 pt FGs...22-37....4-10
3 pt FG....21-53...18-50
FTs.........8-12.....2-4
rebs.......68......21
OReb..... 15.....3
DReb..... 53.....18
points....115......64
stl.... 10....1

So big jumps in 2PA, 2PM, OReb, DReb, and steals....
Improvement in 3P%, FTA, FTM, points...
Decrease in 3PM, 3PA

 

[Silvers88]

Every few games for a couple of minutes at a stretch Issa will very aggressively look for his shot or put it on the floor going to the rim. This aggressive Issa is night and day compared to the normal passive Issa. In these fleeting moments his shot looks to be released a little higher with higher trajectory. Really odd to see when he goes into that mode but it does not last long. Last night he had one of those 2 minute stretches (maybe only 1.5 minutes). We really need that Issa to show up for 10 minutes every game.

Got to give him props for his defense last night.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I love statistics. In most cases you can always make your point either way! We are both right.

If the incoming players are what they are advertised to be issa is going to have to significantly improve to have meaningful minutes in the rotation. I hope the days of default minutes are over.

 

[KnightsofChrome]

I think he has to put it on the deck and drive more and if he gets resistance, he has to alleviate and pull up from 2 point range. That stupid weave last night had Issa and Mike moving further away from the basket and they were both not aggressive trying to take it to the baseline. Every single time if they got it last on the weave, they headed outside instead of to the hoop. Big issue and mistake last night as Issa only took 5 shots after already hitting 2 threes in the first half and Mike only took 6 shots despite getting the ball a ton on the wing. Also Geo going 1-9 killed us as well. As Greene states above, the production from the 2 and 3 spots has to improve if we are going to win games like last night’s. Agressive , agressive , agressive has to be their mindset.

Yeah, not a big fan of the "weave." It's OK for the Globetrotters, and good if you are going up against the Washington Generals, but not really much of an attacking offense in Div. I basketball.

 

[RUChoppin]

I love statistics. In most cases you can always make your point either way! We are both right.

If the incoming players are what they are advertised to be issa is going to have to significantly improve to have meaningful minutes in the rotation. I hope the days of default minutes are over.

I think that the incoming players are going to have to fight for minutes with an upperclassman Thiam, regardless. He's a much better player than he was last year, and should be even better next year (and without freshman-itis).

These are good problems to have, though. I'd rather be discussing which player is going to get minutes than why certain players are getting minutes.

 

[gringo]

Disclaimer: I know very little about basketball.

Thiam is a good shooter and defender. Thin as a rail and burns a lot of energy on defense. Wouldn’t it make sense for him to park himself in the corner and run the baseline from corner to corner? This would spread our the defense and make him an option to kick out to when someone drives to the basket.

 

[jellyman]

I think that the incoming players are going to have to fight for minutes with an upperclassman Thiam, regardless. He's a much better player than he was last year, and should be even better next year (and without freshman-itis).

These are good problems to have, though. I'd rather be discussing which player is going to get minutes than why certain players are getting minutes.

Thiam DOES have to get better at getting open, and driving to the basket ... and he needs to get stronger.

On the other hand, he was REALLY good defensively against Bridges last night. In the 1st game against MSU, at RU, Bridges schooled Thiam a bit - he physically pushed Thiam around, and Thiam was slow and/or lazy getting around or through screens. But in this game, Thiam was much improved. Bridges was held scoreless in the 1st half, with few open looks. And other than 1 very short stretch in the 2nd half, where Bridges scored 7 points of 10 that MSU scored in that stretch, Bridges did very little. And it was MOSTLY with Thiam covering him - though a little bit of Williams, as well. For the game, Bridges was 3-10, with 4 turnovers, a much improved job by Thiam. And while it was true that Thiam himself only had 1 short stretch where he hit 2 3's (2 FT's came later in that 1st half, or in the 2nd half), Thiam with 8 points and Brudges with 11 is a good trade-off for RU, and a key part of why this game was so comeptitive.

RU will be a MUCH better team next year if Thiam develops even a little more, and is able to become a 11 ppg and 4-5 rpg player, plus maintain or even slightly improve his defensive effort. Having a 6'10" wing player who can hit the 3, hit some FT's, maybe drive to the basket even just a little, and defend is a really nice match up situation.

Plus, in re the players being brought in next year ... I am pretty sure none displace Thiam's role, not the current players we know about. Mathis would have to replace Williams, not Thiam. Carter is repalcing Freeman, not Williams. The red-shirt Johnson replaces Sa, not Thiam. Harper may be able to contribute - hopefully he will add a little extra shooting, for example - but it would surprise me a lot if Harper took HUGE minutes from Thiam ... he s only a freshman, and not quite as highly regarded as either Mathis or Carter.

P.S. Edit ... I keep forgetting about Kiss. Kiss will play some 2G and some WF. If Sanders returns, Mathis and Kiss, with Mensah as the 5th guard, will help Baker and Sanders have reduced minutes, which will mean higher defensive intensity when they ARE in, and better legs at the end of games. If Sanders does NOT return, I presume RU will add another recruit - at the guard position. At WF, Thiam will very likely start, again. Kiss and Harper will vie for back-up minutes. Thiam's minutes COULD go down - probably will go down. But if he develops more offensively, he may just hold that minutes reduction to a minimum.

 

[zebnatto]

It would sure be nice if he could shoot a bit off the dribble.

 

[RutgersRaRa]

I love how hard thiam has worked, but his game requires him a lot of space to cleanly get his shot off ...and while he has shown signs of doing a little bit off the bounce, most of his game is spot and shoot

Filling out more and a lot more lower body S&C is critical here for him to get more physical, so he can run off those screens to get his shots

Thiam also has two habits that he has to break himself of. The first is when he catches the ball he immediately brings it down near his left knee, which he undoubtedly developed as a young shooter and habits are hard to break. This costs him time, which gives the defender an extra second to get on him. This leads to problem #2, which is that he has been extremely reluctant to pull the trigger when there's even the slightest chance a defender might be coming out to him, even if he is open enough to get a shot off. There have been a few times in the last eight games or so that he has shot the ball with someone on him, and I was thrilled that he was becoming more confident and more aggressive with his shot. We need him to develop that confidence because he is deadly. He's also 6'9" and hard to defend by a 2-guard. I was surprised that Pikiell pulled him yesterday after he drained two 3's in a row, since he was the only one doing anything that made MSU spread the floor rather than collapsing the D.

A team problem we have is that our guys don't seem to know where to move in open space when they don't have the ball (Omoruyi works non-stop in the post, so he is an exception). There is a lot of standing around on the perimeter rather than moving and giving the ball carrier a target. Occasionally Freeman gets open when he breaks from the wing to the hole, but that is rare. At least our defense is solid, but we have to work on offensive sets and fundamentals. One of the reasons Sanders killed it last night was because it fit his game--he was given the green light to create space for himself and shoot, and that is his game. He is learning the passing game, but without cutters and wings getting open, it is hard to develop. Against MSU his game was ideally suited to make his mark, which he did, and he came sooooo close to going to down in RU history the same way J-Mitch did against 'Nova.

 

[TDIrish27]

Zebnatto

Exactly

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think it is wishful thinking getting Thaim to a double digit scoring. He is averaging 4.6 PPG currently in conference play playing a lot of minutes.

My question, and it is open ended, how far is Thaim's range. I have never seen him take a 3 without being close to the line. I'd be shocked if he can't knock down shots 4-5 feet beyond that. I realize that is out of bounds in the place he positioned the most.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

I think it is wishful thinking getting Thaim to a double digit scoring. He is averaging 4.6 PPG currently in conference play playing a lot of minutes.

My question, and it is open ended, how far is Thaim's range. I have never seen him take a 3 without being close to the line. I'd be shocked if he can't knock down shots 4-5 feet beyond that. I realize that is out of bounds in the place he positioned the most.

See....if you could get thiam to a legit 250 lbs...he could be a really good high post four man as he would have very good handle and jumper for the four spot and pull those bigs away from the hoop

Problem is, I don’t think he can get there, S&C wise, outside chance senior year

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

See....if you could get thiam to a legit 250 lbs...he could be a really good high post four man as he would have very good handle and jumper for the four spot and pull those bigs away from the hoop

Problem is, I don’t think he can get there, S&C wise, outside chance senior year

250! did you say 250? It would be a good idea for issa to come up with issa 2.0 similar to Eugene.

 

[kcg88]

Why can't Issa just be Issa? So many posts about how needs to drive, or post-up, or a dozen other things. If he becomes our version of Duncan Robinson on Michigan (to pick one example of hundreds out there) then that's very valuable!

The original question about getting him more shots is valid. But I think he should focus on being a 3-and-D guy, not a slasher or a post player.

 

[RUChoppin]

I think it is wishful thinking getting Thaim to a double digit scoring. He is averaging 4.6 PPG currently in conference play playing a lot of minutes.

Yes, and 3 of the 5 conference games have been against Top 5 national opponents. If 60% of our conference slate were against Top 5 teams, it would be very hard for him to get to double digits.

That number will come up as we play more of the teams in the 2nd and 3rd tier of the conference. Hard to extrapolate anything off of 5 games, and certainly when 3 of the 5 are against the best two teams in the conference.

 

[RUChoppin]

Also doesn't help that 2 of the next 3 are against Ohio State and Michigan, who are ranked as the #3 and #4 teams in the conference by AP and Coaches' polls.

The schedule did us no favors this year by front loading some of the toughest games and giving us MSU, Purdue, and a suddenly hot OSU twice.

By the time we get 8 games into the conference season, 5 will have been against the Top 4 teams.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

He is getting a lot of minutes at the position where scoring comes from. He has only 5 double digit scoring games

Stony Brook, Fordham, FDU, Cleveland State, CCNY

 

[RUChoppin]

He is getting a lot of minutes at the position where scoring comes from. He has only 5 double digit scoring games

Stony Brook, Fordham, FDU, Cleveland State, CCNY

And twice you've used evidence of the first 5 conference games to make it seem like he won't be any better next year.

I get you are down on the kid, but he's made big strides since last year and there's no reason to think he won't continue to improve as an upperclassman.

Hopefully next year he'll prove you wrong the same way Eugene proved kyk wrong.

 

[eja92]

With Thiam - it seems to me to be far more about confidence and experience than strength or form. He makes plays that literally make you wonder how he isn't a consistent scorer and then he disappears for long stretches. He also clearly is more assertive if he makes his first three of a game. He made a couple of moves last night where he sought to take a smaller defender down low. That is progress and he should be doing that more when other teams put small guards on him.

 

[BoxStater]

I think it is wishful thinking getting Thaim to a double digit scoring. He is averaging 4.6 PPG currently in conference play playing a lot of minutes.

My question, and it is open ended, how far is Thaim's range. I have never seen him take a 3 without being close to the line. I'd be shocked if he can't knock down shots 4-5 feet beyond that. I realize that is out of bounds in the place he positioned the most.

It shouldn’t be a problem getting Thiam to average double digits next year when both he improves and his teammates improve passing to open looks more. And as they hopefully become improved offensive threats themselves next year.

Hopefully Carter is better at kicking the ball out.

 

[RUChoppin]

Hopefully Carter is better at kicking the ball out.

Good point, too. I like the edge Freeman plays with, but sometimes he forces the issue in the post and the ball never comes back out. With Carter/Omoruyi in that spot, maybe we'll see more kickouts for threes. Fingers crossed.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

yeah and his teammates have to have confidence in him too and not be selfish to force. Two plays I just re-watched...Thiam drives to the near top of lane and passes down low and (Shaq/Sa) fumbles the ball.
That was the play were we got the ball because the guy guarding Sa touched it while out of bounds, We inbound the ball side court and back to Corey with 6 seconds who gets stuck at the key and forces an airball...while Thiam is COMPLETELY wide open side baseline calling for the ball. Clear passing lane there.

 

[soundcrib]

My hope is for him to get more shots this year. I think he can average 10ppg next year.

But there’s no reason why Eugene should have a greater ppg average and is getting off more shots.

I truly believe it’s just confidence. He has the skills right now.

I’d rather have Thiam be the second option at under 10 seconds on the shot clock shot over Geo.

But as far as sets we need to run Jeremy Lin to Steve Novak in the corner plays for Thiam a couple times per half.

 

[RutgersMO]

http://static.scarletknights.com/custompages/mbball/teamcume.htm

His %'s are very good! Corey needs more help. Thiam is a guy that can give it to him if he just unleashes himself from within.

Tell him to shoot more.

MO

 

[RU82]

Good thread here. I’ve got nothing to add about what’s been said about Thiam and his offensive production.

I would however note that he did a MUCH better job defensively on Bridges in the second go around than he did in the first. The young man deserves props for that.

 

[winfield102]

I love his defense. He is really bringing it this year.

Hopefully he can get to 10 pointa per game his senior year. He needs to work on a move to get to the hole and one to take a pull up jumper.