Define ‘ball dominant’ are we strictly talking shot vs assist preference? Cause i think what we have is okay, in the realm of normal. Do you think you need a pass first guard?
Basketball INSTANT REACTION: Rutgers Basketball falls to Minnesota 81-70
- Thread starter Richie O
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Purdue lost today so they will definitely want to get a W and of course, they will take it out on us
Remember how many RU fans here were worried about Gavin being a one and done player? Wonder what they are saying now.
If Gavin believes in Pike he will work his way through this and be a different and stronger player next season.
Hard to believe that this is the same player that scored 25 vs Boston U.
lol..I coached it for 18 years... any coach with half an offensive brain can figure out how to get some shots off there. At a minimum it might have opened things back up for Cliff underneath. And stop thinking your so smarter than others with your comments.
my fear is that he is two and done (here). The leap required to play at this level from where he is now would be gigantic.
Serious ?Did he wear those goggles prior to this year?
primary ball handlers need to facilitate team offense. ours are mostly looking to shoot and others players are largely disregarded. We have a playground team which relies on athleticism instead of offensive cohesion. GG is an afterthought, and Hyatt often is as well.
Our frontcourt is as good as Minnesota’s overall but their guards got them the ball all game.
If you coached it for 18yrs I'm thinking you would know that Palm was not a viable option.
His only game is spot up shooting. When there is not a spot up shooting opportunity to be had what's the point of him being out there.
see my response to your other VIP thread ...I think you're so right yet contradicting yourself on this. Kickouts are there when guys move and guards pass instead of making wild finish attempts. (I'll leave it at that).
I could somewhat agree with that. The just one more pass is not the case here. Pass it here you'll never see it again. Are you are saying we have an AAU offense here? 😁
Sorry but for someone shooting as poorly as Gavin, his usage level is off the charts high. Theees no excuse for his poor play. He’s just been a complete bust so far. Cam is a shooter and had no trouble adapting to our “system”. Geo, Caleb, Tez, Davis and a laundry list of others were able to contribute as frosh. He just hasn’t been able to. That’s all there is to it. If this kid didn’t have a recruiting label not one person would defend his play ever.
Our bench front court doesn’t come close to Minnesota’s. Wolfolk regressed terribly from last year and really doesn’t do anything well. His rebounding is atrocious for a big man and I would venture to say that Simpson and both Williams are better rebounders despite being 4 to 6 inches shorter. Rebounding is all about effort and it doesn’t seem like he exerts any effort whatsoever. Gavin and Oskar don’t bring any rebounding or defense to the table either and Gavin has been terrible shooting the ball too.
Yes our starting front court matches up ok to Minnesota but backups have been killing us. @Richard Schnyderite can you please post plus/ minus for Minnesota game as well as plus/minus for season. I am betting there is a huge disparity of Cliff’s compared to Wolf’s and if we had an adequate backup we win easily
yea, it couldn't be more obvious. He's a pass first guard who takes it himself when the D is giving him that. He's a great player. The team got way better when he was available to play. He gets into the lane with relative ease and makes smart plays when he is in there. He's the leader of the team.
Our bench depth issue is solely Wolf. He was the backup 5. GG and Oskar didnt suck. More relevant than even depth, Simpson and Davis took Cliff out of the game more than Minnesota’s defense did. They are disgustingly selfish, Simpson more so. He shoots as if it’s his team and the rest are all role players. I don’t care how bad Gavin has been; it’s because the backcourt doesn’t involve him that he forces shots on the rare occasion he gets the ball.
let him be the starting 2 with JW as PG. I bet he’d be a different player.
Cliff, Mag, Hyatt and those 2. Crazy as it sounds at first, all 5 would contribute. The ‘Simpson and Davis Show’ is brutal offense.
It’s interesting that you talk about Simpson and Davis offensive limitations but don’t mention how great they are both defensively. Simpson is probably the second best rebounder on the team. Yes it would helpful if they were better passers like JWill but neither of them are killing us. If Gavin played extended minutes in place of either of those guards, the results would be brutal.
All you need to look at is how bad we lose leads or give up points when our back ups are getting minutes
They can play solid defense and not also be damaging chuckers. One should have nothing to do with the other. They seem incapable of facilitating team offense, which is what guards need to do. UM halftime adjustments didn't quell Cliff. Their selfishness did.
GG struggles on interior defense, but isn't nearly as useless as Wolf or Oskar there. GG is not a typical guard obviously, but he's not a missed jumper or missed layup machine like the other two. They are selfish beyond compare. And with his length he could disrupt outside jumpers from guards.
But I know it will never happen. GG's optimal development comparison would be Donyell Marshall. He''s actually more athletic than DM was, but has no supporting cast to boost production. It's a team game, not a 2 on 5 game these guys play.
It would be great if GG could turn into Kiki VanDeWeghe or Keith Van Horn. He's talented, just not that talented, But I stand by my Marshall comparison.
I’m all about effort and nobody gives better effort than any of our starters. If Simpson takes more shots than he should it’s because he earned them by playing amazing defense and rebounding. I felt the same way about Caleb. What irks me is players that don’t hustle and then take more shots than they deserve. I think you win a lot of games with 5 Derek Simpson or 5 JWill’s or 5 Cliff or 5 Mag’s.
GG does not do anything well yet on the court. He is getting better about getting his hands dirty under the boards (something Oskar or Wolf are terrible at) but he is still a poor rebounder. He is not a good defender and will get eaten alive by any quick player. Now, he cannot even make a basket so not sure how you compare him to past NBA stars. Yes he has length, but doesn’t really use it much to his advantage. I hope he can improve and be at least a Chris Remley type but to ask him to be Marshall is beyond optimistic
He's more athletic than Marshall, and obviously Remley.
Before posting I typed "entitled chuckers" but changed it to "damaging chuckers". You'd understand my point more clearly if I didn't change it.
So no, I do not think good defense earns anyone the right to hoist bad shots. Bad shots are no different than turnovers. There should be no such thing as "deserving" shots. I didn't like it when Caleb did the same. Do you think volleyball setters giving top effort deserve a few frontline spike attempts ? Does Pacheco deserve a few snaps at QB ? Basketball is no different. Roles and skills matter to winning and when your ball dominant poor shooters keep chucking you're usually going to lose.
I don’t see how you could say he is more athletic than anyone considering he could barely move his feet to stay with a guy he is guarding. Right now, he looks very similar to Remley
It’s not about having the “right” to put up bad shots. It’s about evaluating the entire impact of a player. An elite defender can put up some bad shots and still remain a positive impact overall.
I think selfish players do feel entitled, but regardless the players we are talking about take many more ill-advised shots than just ‘some’. They were not looking for open teammates and nobody ever cuts to the hoop while they drew defenders because they know they aren’t ever getting passed to.
I dunno. Simpson’s passing seems improved to me. I still don’t love his shot selection but i think it is getting better.
Define "ok". Ideally all of our players would be perfect and make perfect decisions at all times but that's not reality. You have to pick the best out of what you have.
I can define ‘not ok’.
It’s not OK to hold the ball the entire time 30 second last first half possession in multiple games only to hoist contested shots that have no chance.
It’s not ok to often dribble into traffic looking to get a shot off only to fall down.
It’s not ok to take so many 3 pointers when you make such a low percentage.
It’s not ok to showboat and taunt after making a shot, drawing a deserved punk technical. And then he laughed about it.
He’s an immature, no conscience, selfish player who only plays good D to get more opportunities to shoot on other end.
I don’t care what his assist to TO ratio is because most of his shots are essentially turnovers.
It’s not OK to hold the ball the entire time 30 second last first half possession in multiple games only to hoist contested shots that have no chance.
It’s not ok to often dribble into traffic looking to get a shot off only to fall down.
It’s not ok to take so many 3 pointers when you make such a low percentage.
It’s not ok to showboat and taunt after making a shot, drawing a deserved punk technical. And then he laughed about it.
He’s an immature, no conscience, selfish player who only plays good D to get more opportunities to shoot on other end.
I don’t care what his assist to TO ratio is because most of his shots are essentially turnovers.
He doesn't take a lot of threes. If anything he'd be better off taking more threes. You think basically every player is selfish so it kind of loses all meaning. Who do you think we should be playing that gives us a better chance to win?
I’ve said previously, he should get 4-5 shots a game on average, same as Davis, Noah, GG Oskar AWill. JWill, Hyatt, Cliff and Mag should get more.
But instead (and without looking) I believe he took more shots than Noah, GG Oskar and A Will combined. It’s not any great feat to get 20 with the amount of shots he takes. And I think it was 16 before FTs at the end.
The Simpson offense with him as 1st, 2nd and 3rd option is a shitshow.
But instead (and without looking) I believe he took more shots than Noah, GG Oskar and A Will combined. It’s not any great feat to get 20 with the amount of shots he takes. And I think it was 16 before FTs at the end.
The Simpson offense with him as 1st, 2nd and 3rd option is a shitshow.
He played 32 minutes and those guys played 24 combined.
19 points on 14 shots is not bad at all. There have been plenty of games where this criticism is warrented but the last one was not one of them.
the issue is Coach Pikiell is perfectly fine with him doing it
Derek is no Geo in any universe but they keep trying to act like he is because he hit a shot to be lowly Stonehill.
Derek has become a great defender. He has really developed his game as a distributor when he wants to.
as a volume shooter, its not good folks...unfortunatley Pikes bad recruiting the past few years has led us to this situation where he has to take that many shots. Ditto for Hyatt. Just a terrible roster management when you think about it. Forcing 7th man players into the role as your primary offensive shot takers
9 points were in the last 3 and half minutes when they were down by 17...still part of the game but
It can't possibly be that Pike sees Simpson as our best scorer no matter where he is shooting from. He wouldn't shoot much worse from the perimeter with his eyes closed.
It's that Pike's maintaining the 'players' coach' reputation (for recruiting) by letting the players do whatever the hell they want. Problem is, Davis and Simpson have no shame or self-control and take that model too far, and Pike is too soft to hold them accountable. Did you ever once see Noah take a terrible shot ? Or Oskar ? Heck, GG hasn't played well by any stretch of the imagination but DS takes more bad shots in one game than GG has all year.
Sure. I’m not saying it was some superstar performance, but it was fine. The offense was great (for us). This game was lost on defense.
He’s 30% from three on the season.. not exactly the next Steph Curry but you’re exaggerating a bit (a lot) here.
Yes I’ve seen all of those players take bad shots. Do you actually watch the games?
I've seen GG take bad shots. not a lot, but some.....but no, never Oskar or Noah. They play within themselves. Missed shots aren't necessarily bad shots. Combined they took 0 shots against Minnesota, recognizing they didn't get good looks. Yet to Simpson, every shot he takes is a good shot. He froze Cliff out of the second half last game.
Oskar I mostly agree. I mean, I still have seen him take a bad shot before but he mostly takes good shots. Noah I have seen take plenty of bad ones. But I’m still not sure your point. Oskar plays a completely different position so he’s not going to directly take minutes from Simpson. Simpson gives us more than Fernandes in pretty much every area besides taking a few more bad shots.
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