Just an eye opening stat-not to bring down any specific player

[higgins3]

Daniels on 24.8 minutes- 71 turnovers.
Williams on 22.2 mpg- 20 turnovers.


Some pretty shocking but obvious numbers. In our closest games this year, Daniels could not handle the ball. Player with high ceiling yes, but if he can't hold onto the ball it's negated to an extent. During maryland and then one of the last season games he seemed to high jack the team. Jordan must teach Daniels how to a) Have a plan to pass- not leave his feet and create one there and b) pass out of the back court instead of trying to dribble through two people.

Williams to me just seems like he should start next year and then hopefully we see an improved Daniels off the bench. Hard to get into offensive possessions with so many turnovers. Both are strong assets to the team. Williams will come back next year and be a 10ppg player with some good defense.

 

[knights1212]

I also would much rather see Williams play more minutes than Daniels next season. Not only does he commit less turnovers but he is a better defensive player too.

 

[Caliknight]

Agreed on both accounts. Daniels has some upside due to his athleticism, but he is a very poor defender. It seems like he hasn't been coached well throughout his career up until this point. Very basic things like seeing man ball are a big challenge with him. He continuously allows his man to penetrate, which led to numerous dunks or fouls on our big men. This is a all curious as you would think with his athleticism, D would be a strong suit.

On the offensive side, his turnover to assist ratio is unacceptable for a point guard. Perhaps he is better coming off the bench as a two. Unless turnovers stop and the D increases, he isn't the point to win with.

 

[higgins3]

I agree with you guys. Like you said cali, just hasn't had good coaches. Sometimes extreme athleticism can be relied upon too much when you have other issues with your game. If Jordan can get through to Daniels, he can be a huge asset. If he scores 15 points a game but turns it over 6, those 15 points aren't looking as good anymore. One thing i notice about Daniels a lot to is that he knows where his shots should come from but he kind of always makes it seem like he has to take the shot, even if it is a bad one. Just a player that has to learn patience and how to use his energy.

Williams on the other hand protects the ball well, and makes the easy pass a lot of the time. That is pretty much the same amount of time but almost 4X as many turnovers for Daniels. Just wild.

Sanders, Williams, Etou,Foreman, Lewis with a backup of
1 Goode,2 Daniels/Rjohnson 3 Rjohnson/Kjohnson 4 Diallo 5 Shaq/Diallo

has to be be better for many than 10 wins. I am praying for more than 10 wins, little sad haha. Still, if you watched Gtown game you saw their lack of bench really hurt them. That was us pretty much all year.

 

[RU82]

Daniels was a turnover machine in Juco. Don't know why anyone would expect different playing in the B1G.

 

[higgins3]

ru- Sucks this kid never had good coaches, or maybe never wanted to take advice. With a couple pointers Daniels could be a great player for us next year. If he continues on his path though, often his good play will be negated by his bad play.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

This team will not live or die with the amount of turnovers Bishop Daniels has. If there is a list of worries/concerns this one is on page 3.

 

[higgins3]

Fig, i know you think Daniels has an upside and so do i, but facts are facts. We both agree defense is huge and Daniels didn't perform that well. If you don't handle the ball, it's hard to win games. Daniels almost cost up 2 or more games this year by his amount of turnovers 6+ in those games.

Basketball players come back next year. Correcting Daniels should be at the top of page 1. With him knowing a good pass and a better shot, we're a lot better team.

You can say what you want about facilities, new coaches, etc, but none of that is happening by next year I don't think.We should be focusing on the players on the court right now. Sanders needs to pass, Williams needs to get his shot down, Etou needs to be of more focus, Foreman needs to finish, and Lewis needs to box out in a more proper fashion. Daniels needs to find a sure pass. These are all priorities.

 

[higgins3]

Right now the ball stays in Williams hands and that is why I think he should get a start. Plus, better defense than Daniels. Daniels has upside, but his turnovers hijack our games.He should be a focus for next year.
This post was edited on 3/23 1:24 PM by higgins3

 

[bscharf]

Very eye opening indeed Higgins.

Especially when you watch the top teams in the country. A consistent theme is winning the turnover battle.

 

[higgins3]

Bsharf, thanks for dropping a line. I do think it is an important stat. Daniels didn't have the ball nearly as much as Mack and had about the same turnovers. Turnover battles are important. We all know to have offensive possessions and to score baskets the ball has to remain in our hands. As far as closing tight games out, defense has to be there and the ability to shoot free throws. Williams helps with that too.

Do i think Daniels has a high ceiling? In a sense i do. But Jordan must teach him better decision making with the ball. Dunks are cool to look at, but they are far,far away from winning you basketball games.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

RU TO% according to kenpom.

Jack 19%
daniels 26%
Mack 18%
Williams 10%
Foreman 21%
Etou 16%
Lewis 24%
Kone 24%
Doorson 21%
Okoro 25%
batie 13%
Dadika 37%
Zurich 52%

RU 20%

How they derive the individual stats I don't know. the numerator is TOs the denominator is based on their usage in a given possession i believe. the 20% for RU is turnovers divided by possessions.

Daniels creates, gets assists, penetrates, draws fouls and just does more with the basketball. Williams is a spot up shooter who rarely penetrates and doesn't create for himself or others.

There is absolutely NO DOUBT he and the team has to value the basketball better. Bishop deserves some blame as does Jordan and staff. Trice knocks down 3 3pointers and then takes a terrible shot and he hears it from Izzo. THERE IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY FROM OUR COACHING STAFF ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL!!!! It takes dozen of poor possessions to finally lose minutes if you are a core player.

 

[higgins3]

Does Kenpom take into consideration how many minutes each person plays? Zurich at 52 % - he barely played a minute a game.

 

[higgins3]

The numbers are what the numbers are. Williams plays more defense, and as a player that is 2 years seperated from Daniels, has very similar stats on ppg, apg, and rpg. Add in that they play the same amount of time and you want a player that keeps the ball in his hands. Daniels is a spark plug, and has to learn how to use his energy to his advantage.

Mike Williams is a 10ppg player next year. Just watch. I thought you were big on him, FIG? Daniels turnovers are too high and he does everything you said at the same rate as Williams.

I agree with accountability. Still, look at those turnover numbers and they clearly don't take into consideration who is actually playing in the game. Doesn't hold much weight to me at all. Even if Daniels is leading the percentage.

 

[higgins3]

No one could handle the ball as efficiently as Mack this year. Yes, not a strong defender but lets be realistic. We win no games this year without Mack. Accountability on both sides of the ball isn't always there. But who do you take to replace Mack on rebounds, assist, and points? No one is there. It certainly is far from Daniels. Mack played twice the amount of minutes as Daniels and had just the same amount of turnovers. I agree with you though that accountability has to be there, but who could we replace with Mack this past year? Jack, still don't think he has a replacement who is better than him.

 

[essexknight]

It doesn't really matter who starts. Both Daniels and Williams will play major minutes in the backcourt next year. The same is true for Corey Sanders. Daniels definitely needs to take better care of the basketball. He can be a real asset to the program because he can do many things on the floor (penetrate, create). Williams needs to be more efficient from 3. Sanders looks like he will be the primary ballhandler, which is a difficult task for a true freshman in the B1G.

 

[higgins3]

t doesn't really matter who starts. Both Daniels and Williams will play major minutes in the backcourt next year. The same is true for Corey Sanders. Daniels definitely needs to take better care of the basketball. He can be a real asset to the program because he can do many things on the floor (penetrate, create). Williams needs to be more efficient from 3. Sanders looks like he will be the primary ballhandler, which is a difficult task for a true freshman in the B1G.

Essex you're right, doesn't matter who starts. I knew Daniels was losing the ball but I didn't know it was at this high of a rate. Keeping possession is key. The difference in the two is not surprising, but doesn't bode well for Daniels. Williams passes just as well as Daniels. Daniels may have the quicker first step. Sanders definitely has a task. I hope he can handle the ball better than IW did at SH this year. Just really important we keep possession.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Originally posted by higgins3:
Daniels on 24.8 minutes- 71 turnovers.
Williams on 22.2 mpg- 20 turnovers.
. . . .

In Daniel's defense, some of those turnovers may be missed shots. Sometimes it's hard to tell what the hell he was trying to do with the ball . . .

 

[higgins3]

Haha, willis. I think Daniels has a big upside to this team next year, just needs more coaching. Both him and Williams have some stuff to work on for next year to be successful.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Originally posted by higgins3:
Mike Williams is a 10ppg player next year. Just watch. I thought you were big on him, FIG? Daniels turnovers are too high and he does everything you said at the same rate as Williams.

I like the Mike Williams plays the game.

If Mike Williams doesn't find his shot he really can't succeed and he can't be out there. Yes Williams plays good D, but honestly it should be a given that others play it at that level. Offensively we have seen Mike Williams take outside shots and take a few dribbles and take 15 footers. As a 2 guard he isn't going to break down defenses with the dribble or create opportunities for others. He has to be a reliable outside shooter, play D, and not make mistakes.

 

[seels2662]

It is sort of one or the other-you either put in Daniels who at times is a turnover machine, or you put in Williams, who at times couldn't hit the ocean if he fell off a boat. This is the best case scenerio for us next year

PG-Sanders-and he is the real deal
SG-WIlliams OR Goode OR Johnson-whichever one is the person you can consistently hit the three and not be a liability on the defensive end. It can be a combination too. We just need a shooter.

The Daniels is the "spark" off the bench-ride his hot streaks, and when he starts getting out of control, give him the quick hook. He can back up both Sanders and the SG.

 

[brad1218]

Greene,

Are you really comparing Izzo to Jordan? C'mon. Izzo recruits 4 stars in his sleep. He usually has a hole team of them. It is tough to pull someone when you don't have a back up. So yeah lets bench Mack and lose by 40 instead of 20 because that would pump people up and help attract recruits. There was nothing any coach could do with this team. Watching the NCAA tournament and we are nowhere close talent wise to these teams. All these teams are either crazy long and athletic or they have crazy shooters. Now Jordan gets four years to identify what his team is going to be and lets see if he can do it. I saw potential in our freshman class. If they can stay together and we can recruit a few more key contributors there may be a shot at something in 3 years. I admit though it is unlikely.

I keep hearing how we don't have the facilities for recruiting. We also don't have them for player development. Our equipment is behind on that as well which does hurt.

 

[RUJMM78]

When you can't recruit top talent,its imperative that execution of basic fundamentals like passing/dribbling are demonstrated on the court.In Rutgers case they clearly are lacking.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

we didn't have enough talent, but there was some talent. A 5 of mack,daniels, etou, jack and lewis aren't that far off from the teams still playing...what i dont know is if these players were being capable of being coached

 

[higgins3]

Seels, i think you have to go with someone who keeps the ball in their hands. That gives you the opportunity to have a possession. Also, Williams as a freshman was a 2ppg difference than Daniels as a junior. They almost score the same.

Daniels is 8ppg and Williams is 6ppg.