Besides struggling to make weight for one dual, what exactly are the rest of the team doing that Sammy isn’t?? Are mid season weight change that looked down upon?? So if he made weight last week n decided this week he wanted to move up to 149 then it would be okay?
No. 18 Rutgers Wrestling Wraps Up Non-Conference Slate at Bloomsburg (Friday) and Rider (Sunday)
- Thread starter Tango Two
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Agreed. Sammy is being selfish at this point and if he moves up to 149 what is White supposed to do as he's wrestled well for us and makes his weight.
So is Princeton’s Monday move to 165 selfish for the former 165 starter there?? Or what if Glory went to 33.. ? Is the diff between being selfish or not missing weight for one meaningless match?
What if he is a lot better than White?
I would say let Sammy and White battle it out for 149 and let the best guy wrestle. I don't know everything that has gone on behind the scenes but if its just a matter of him no being able to make weight why not move up. Maybe he would look stronger than he has at 141.
Point is why didn't they battle it out at 149 to begin with then? To protect Olivieri's RS at 141?
Agreed. That happening would be the inevitable for next season anyhow. Unless, Sammy took a redshirt and bulked up even more.
All things considered, it appears that the team is rallying around Joey O.
Some reason Sammy thinks he can cut a lot of weight and be ok.. if he stays 141 would it be so surprising if he missed another post season bc he can’t suck down enough.. he really shoulda been wrestling 149 from the start of the year..
I agree that if Joey O never wanted out of RS this season n is forced to now then yeah that would be lame.. if Olivieri really wanna stay in RS tho, Brittan proved he can be a solid starter w/ nice wit over rider NQ
I'm sure they had numerous conversations about the best weight to go. No idea why he wants to cut so much if it's such a struggle.
This is a tough one. I see both sides and would like to see him have the opportunity to move up to 149 or even 157, if he's the best option and wins the wrestle-offs, and has been open about it from the start (similar to Monday at Princeton). If he told the coaches he would try to go 141, but would like to move up to 149 or 157 if the cut is too hard, then I agree he should get the opportunity. On the flip side, you have to hold him accountable for missing weight and if he hasn't had that open dialogue and put in the effort.
Your last sentence is the key. If team is backing JO then sounds like Sammy’s not all in effort wise-can’t cut weight being lazy
Can't say this news is surprising considering the track record, but man, it still stinks to hear. Sammy had all the talent and potential in the world to be a 4 time AA here.
I like White a lot and look forward to seeing much more of him. However, wrestling is or should be all about competition and putting the best kids forward at any weight. It's not a union mentality.
Sammy has shown signs of having trouble since the season began. Some of us were told by the cheerleaders to not question his commitment. I don't think it was just a matter of commitment, although he is weak at discipline with regard to weight. On the other hand, I suspect it's a re-run of the 133 experience. Did Sammy want to go 141? Did Goodale think it was realistic for him? Or did Goodale want him there. Sure, a wrestler gets to have a preference but that is subject to coaching approval and influence. There is a lot of unspoken influence that a power figure has over someone that wants to please or is just intimidated. I don't know what happened but do understand human nature.
Sammy has shown weakness resulting from fasting before matches. I made that point after the Bloomsburg match. It is likely he stuffed his face afterward and then couldn't get the weight loss done again two days later. The same happened out in California except he was able to opt-out of the tournament rather than miss weight. You can't have a guy at the end-of-year tournaments that can't make weight over successive days.
If Sammy really wants to wrestle and would truly be comfortable up another 8 lbs, then he should be given the opportunity to compete for the position. If fairness was a deciding factor, you would have to consider where both Shawver and Poz are today. But since fair is maybe the most subjective word in our vocabulary, make it about competition witch is the most objective approach to fairness.
Now we have Olivieri coming off redshirt while not having had the benefit of the earlier matches.
I didn't see the broadcast. But I'm guessing that this is a man who never wrestled and doesn't understand how difficult it is to ride a college-level athlete for X minutes. (Or maybe he is just an overzealous, frustrated ex-wrestler)...
Besides not being available to wrestle? That’s kind of a big deal.
This isn’t a one time thing either. This has happened multiple times here. The coaching staff sounded like they were sick of it at the beginning of the season, I believe Goodale said something along the lines of its now or never, and they’re definitely done with it now.
Alvarez has had opportunities to use a redshirt and has chosen not to. Last year probably not entirely his fault as Rivera claimed the 141 spot but he could have redshirted instead of trying to go 133. This year he pretty much could have chose whatever weight class he wanted and went with 141. Once again he can’t make the weight. I have absolutely no reason to think something will change at 149 and it would be a matter of time before he’s struggling to make that weight.
It’s harsh criticism but the sport requires extreme dedication, sacrifices and mental toughness. It’s not for everyone. He can love the sport all he wants but if he doesn’t love the grind it’s not going to work. He’s had his chances and I think the coaching staff feels he blew them all.
It's being reported that Sammy is off the team. Sad ending...
That’s putting it nicely. He quit. Again.
Heard a story last year from someone close to the program and posted it here, that when Alvarez was struggling to make weight the coaching staff challenged him and told him if he’s not willing to push himself then he should just quit. More motivational than literal. Some people here refuted the story and some even had some choice words about it. Seeing how this is playing out, I 100% believe what I was told.
Ppl questioning Sammy’s dedication and mental toughness preseason +1
Cheer Squad. -1
Dang, telling someone to gut it out or quit is not how you should motivate certain ppl.. can’t help but feel the staff failed him in guiding him to his correct weight, especially w/ his past track record and he had the frame to fill out.. ultimately, it’s on Sammy but damn such wasted talented and what coulda been if he just wrestled at his proper weight.. 3 seasons in a row smh..
This is a bad take because you have absolutely no idea what the coaches said or did. They aren't stupid and forcing someone to go a weight they don't want to go as it's too easy to transfer and hurt future recruiting.
If that is what you have seen, cool.
Personally, I have seen the opposite and guys made to cut insane amounts and threats about their scholarship if they don't. Not with this staff to clarify.
I've heard the opposite, but I'm sure what you posted happens too. I just think it's more the exception or you'd see much more widespread transferring and social media complaints.
For sure we don't really know here unless told. Each coach/team is different and my experience is back in late 2000s, so a little different in terms of rulesets.
Now you got the transfer portal and social media to complain as you mentioned.
Bottom line is Sammy decided he wanted to go 141. This has been a pattern. Sammy breaks and can't keep his weight down regardless of the weight class. This is a Sammy issue and not a staff issue. Accountability matters coaches can't hold the athletes hand 24/7.
Your right, no one truly knows what was said between Sammy and the staff.. but to go the wrong weight, when your clearly too big, 3 years in a row.. that’s not a good look.. like his freshman year he was just as good, if not better, then A. Gomez and Lovett @33 and now both are studs at 149 (Lovett in RS).. like you coulda been so successful wrestling at proper weight.. tf r u sucking so much weight for when there is a clear history of struggles smh frustrating..
For all we know, the coaches could've strongly recommend that he go 149 or 157 and he wasn't interested. Just look at 125 where neither redshirted. Coaches can only do so much.
Do you know what was said or done? If not, you wouldn't know that was a bad take any more than he could know it's accurate. These are all opinions based on our own observations until we're given information.
They don't like hearing it, but ultimately, the coach is in charge and responsible for guiding each kid, especially when there is history to help with the guidance. There are other situations that have to be managed and not just reacted to. Shawver and Poz come to mind. Goodale shouldn't wait until next season to see how things "fall-out". Those situations need to be planned, starting now or better yet, a month ago. Rutgers can't keep losing top kids.
You seem to be saying that the coach can only recommend and the decision is ultimately up to the kid. Yup, I read it again and it still makes no sense. If the kids are making the final decisions, all is now understood. In my mind, the coach would make the final decision. I can imagine the coach telling Sammy that he and the team will be better off with him wrestling at (149,157) and he'll have to win the position. Goodale expressed doubt at the beginning and said Olivier was waiting in the wings and eager to wrestle. This is a good example of why I have said that coaching is a management job. A good manager makes decisions that are good for the person and the business. A good manager accepts responsibility for bad decisions and failures.
These aren't children. They're young adults. Guiding yes agree. But spending the night at a guy's house so he doesn't eat and drink everything in site isn't and shouldn't be happening. It can't always be someone else's fault. That's the problem with society no accountability anymore just the blame game
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All coaches miss on kids. It happens. It seems we miss on more than other programs.. It may be the type of kid we recruit. I don't know why so many top kids leave the program. If we continue to have these issues both performance and fan support will decline. I'm not really excited about only 4 matches at the RAC and now the wrestler who the coach said could beat anyone in the country is gone.
All programs lose top kids. Don't think many programs have lost as many top kids as Rutgers. Kids that come to mind: Aguilar, Alvarez, Arragona, Correnti, Gentile, Giraldo, Glasgow, Mason, Mulligan, and Danny White. There were high expectations for all of these kids when they entered Rutgers. Not one of them competed at Rutgers in their senior year.
All coaches miss on kids. It happens. It seems we miss on more than other programs.. It may be the type of kid we recruit. I don't know why so many top kids leave the program. If we continue to have these issues both performance and fan support will decline. I'm not really excited about only 4 matches at the RAC and now the wrestler who the coach said could beat anyone in the country is gone.
I don’t think any of those kids were wrestling at notable programs after leaving Rutgers either.
We’re the school that misses the most kids because you’re not following other teams as closely. Every team misses.
Agreed. I don’t know why it’s so hard to believe that a kid picks their weight class and the coach picks a starter. If Alvarez wanted to go 184 and beat out Soldano, Goodale would have started him.
This is it. We follow Rutgers so we see and remember every kid from NJ that doesn't pan out. If we lived in Ohio we would see and remember every kid that didn't work out at osu
Idk y but it’s so cringe to me when a coach says “he can beat anyone” when it’s highly improbable.. or the wrestler that says “I’m going to be a national champ” when clearly they are a huge underdog and you can tell by the way they say it/ and their body language that they are just saying it to say it… like you gotta dive into some serious deep waters to make the podium let alone be a champ..
Many people are just fans and don't understand how things works. Hopefully they read what others say and take it into consideration. I'm not saying I know everything but I have a very good grasp of what goes on in D1 rooms
The stuff we’re talking about happens at every level I’ve ever been apart of including coaching at the youth, middle, and high school levels as well as wrestling through college.
I’ve never seen a coach tell a kid what weight he’s going. I’ve seen suggestions made, especially when there’s multiple high level kids at the same weight but ultimately it becomes the kid decision and the coach has to make a determination from there. If Goodale was in the business of telling kids where they’d be going, we would have Poz and Soldano at the same weights, Alvarez/Olivieri, Shawver/Peterson, etc.
I don’t think my opinion is better than anyone else’s, but you can tell who forms their opinions from experiences around school teams and those who have never been apart of a wrestling program. Sometimes losing an athlete who’s good at their sport can be addition by subtraction.
