No More Schiano

[RUTGERS95]

I really wish we had these conversations at my annual review.

"Listen. You have been doing an okay job. Youre set for life though. Did you see all the bad hires we made 40 years ago? We don't trust ourselves to hire better so you can stay around forever. We had a bad process for 2 hires before you so we're not even considering trying to make another hiring process."

The posts defending HC Schiano based on Ash, Flood and bowl record in the 1940s are hysterical.

Talk about grasping at straws.
Is there really so few other arguments?

spot on post

in a nutshell, this is why I question if many posters can look at the program with rational and non emotional views. Either that or we've a fan base of really unsuccessful people that simply don't understand what it takes to be successful and drive for more. Excuses and accepting status quo are never ingredients for successful people.

RU had 3 under Greg where we had the most 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pics in the country and still couldn't be dominant. Let that sink in

He's great for doing what he does and was absolutely needed after Ash but he'll forever be limited in the success of the program because of him and no one else. He just gets' in his own way

 

[RUTGERS95]

I just look at the coaching hires we've made since Graber was fired. They either completely ruined the place, or one guy turned the program into a reliably bowl eligible team. I could have some Stockholm syndrome going on, but I'll take a bowl eligible team. It means you're at least winning half of your games.

the school did everything on the cheap or through social/political lenses and you can't do that.

We need to hire people based on ability but before we do that, we need to shed the yoke of the past. the past doesn't matter any longer, the game and landscape are forever changed. Managing that change is critical now

 

[RUTGERS95]

When a team wins its the kids and when a team loses its the coaches. Always has been and always will be.

The fire Shciano crowd seem to forget the Ash era. Yeah we lost 3 close games this year, it sucks.

We have no culture of winning. Zero. None. It is hard to win. It is hard to break that cycle. When you play with the mindset of not losing (as a player and coach) it leads to issues. But is a hard cycle to break.

some truth here but also some deflection. You know enough to realize and see with your own eyes that we've got upperclassmen playing that look truly lost at times. Greg has been here 5yrs and some of these kids that have been here look like raw freshman. No question talent, personal accountability and player approach to succeeding are important variables in your intimation but it still comes back to coaching and scheme.

We've watched the past 5 yrs shaking our heads at offenses that put round pegs in square holes wondering why. We just sat through a season where we've had entire games that the Defense looked worse than under Shea.

In no way, after 5yrs, is that on the kids

 

[NickRU714]

A funny argument could be made that HC Schiano (and not Rutgers the institution) is the blame for the poor hires of Flood and Ash.

Flood - obviously the timing threw any normal hiring process out the door.

Ash - the school hired a young defensive coach from a perennially successful elite school.
Looks a lot like they were trying to replicate the HC Schiano's framework.

Perhaps if Rutgers wasn't influenced by HC Schiano's prior success they wouldn't have tried to run it back with a similar profile coach?

 

[DJ Spanky]

A funny argument could be made that HC Schiano (and not Rutgers) is the blame for the poor hires of Flood and Ash.
...
Perhaps if Rutgers wasn't influenced by HC Schiano's prior success they wouldn't have tried to run it back with a similar profile coach?

I'm also hearing that we should consider laying the blame for the pandemic at his feet.

 

[RU#1fan]

some truth here but also some deflection. You know enough to realize and see with your own eyes that we've got upperclassmen playing that look truly lost at times. Greg has been here 5yrs and some of these kids that have been here look like raw freshman. No question talent, personal accountability and player approach to succeeding are important variables in your intimation but it still comes back to coaching and scheme.

We've watched the past 5 yrs shaking our heads at offenses that put round pegs in square holes wondering why. We just sat through a season where we've had entire games that the Defense looked worse than under Shea.

In no way, after 5yrs, is that on the kids

This.
If we go 4-8 next season the new Administration will have to make a change in 2026. Which will be a good thing long term.

 

[megadrone]

This.
If we go 4-8 next season the new Administration will have to make a change in 2026. Which will be a good thing long term.

I don't think so. The buyout on his contract will still be large. We won't see a performance based change until the end of the 2027 season at the earliest.

I don't think the time is right to make a change. While the year is showing a lack of depth (still), we have had an enormously large number of injuries, along with 3 separate one score losses. If 2 of those were turned around, we are 8-4 -- which would have been a successful season considering all the injuries we have suffered.

 

[RUTGERS95]

was absolutely stupid to extend him when we did

 

[NickRU714]

I don't think so. The buyout on his contract will still be large. We won't see a performance based change until the end of the 2027 season at the earliest.

I don't think the time is right to make a change. While the year is showing a lack of depth (still), we have had an enormously large number of injuries, along with 3 separate one score losses. If 2 of those were turned around, we are 8-4 -- which would have been a successful season considering all the injuries we have suffered.

Also have 3 one score wins (technically Minnesota but that wasn’t really in doubt at the end of the game).

If 1 or 2 go the other way we're not bowl eligible yet and we're looking at 5-6 or even 4-7 going into this weekend.

 

[rutgersal]

This.
If we go 4-8 next season the new Administration will have to make a change in 2026. Which will be a good thing long term.

Sorry but this is clueless. Next years schedule is particularly difficult, with four likely losses, 4 likely wins, and the rest 50/50.

Likely Losses
Penn State
Ohio State
Oregon
Iowa

50/50
Illinois
Washington
Maryland
Minnesota

Likely Wins
Miami of Ohio
Ohio
TBD
Purdue

 

[gef21]

some truth here but also some deflection. You know enough to realize and see with your own eyes that we've got upperclassmen playing that look truly lost at times. Greg has been here 5yrs and some of these kids that have been here look like raw freshman. No question talent, personal accountability and player approach to succeeding are important variables in your intimation but it still comes back to coaching and scheme.

We've watched the past 5 yrs shaking our heads at offenses that put round pegs in square holes wondering why. We just sat through a season where we've had entire games that the Defense looked worse than under Shea.

In no way, after 5yrs, is that on the kids

I would say the biggest busts right now in upperclassmen is our LB core. The upperclassmen LBs are not playing well at all, like at all. I am most disappointed in Walker. I loved him coming in, but he has continuously done more harm than good on the field (including this weekend). I would also say some of our seniors and junior OL have been disappointing in their growth.

Bo and Levy at times looked lost this weekend, but they are young.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I would say the biggest busts right now in upperclassmen is our LB core. The upperclassmen LBs are not playing well at all, like at all. I am most disappointed in Walker. I loved him coming in, but he has continuously done more harm than good on the field (including this weekend). I would also say some of our seniors and junior OL have been disappointing in their growth.

Bo and Levy at times looked lost this weekend, but they are young.

agree and definitely agree on Walker as I thought he would really contribute but he's been a liability

I'm ok with younger guys making mistakes as that's part of the process plus with injuries, it's expected as theyr're not ready and contributing more earlier than anticipated. The upperclassmen though....almost stunning how I'll prepared they look

is what it is, just hate seeing opportunities thrown away

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

A funny argument could be made that HC Schiano (and not Rutgers the institution) is the blame for the poor hires of Flood and Ash.

Flood - obviously the timing threw any normal hiring process out the door.

Ash - the school hired a young defensive coach from a perennially successful elite school.
Looks a lot like they were trying to replicate the HC Schiano's framework.

Perhaps if Rutgers wasn't influenced by HC Schiano's prior success they wouldn't have tried to run it back with a similar profile coach?

You need a history refresher, Flood was hired because the admin was only offering half of what Schiano made when he left. Key reason behind Cristobal not closing the deal.

RU tried to do it on the cheap again and it blew up on them in dramatic fashion when Ash couldn’t undo a lot of the damage that Flood had caused behind the scenes. They needed an experienced hire but again went cheap (even though his salary was more than Flood’s) because they didn’t want to pay market rates.

Had little to do with Greg’s success otherwise they would have hired better coaches than Flood and Ash to guarantee continued success.

 

[DJ Spanky]

You need a history refresher, Flood was hired because the admin was only offering half of what Schiano made when he left. Key reason behind Cristobal not closing the deal.

Thank you. This is exactly the case. In addition, the salary pool for the assistant coaches was pathetic. That is why Flood had a revolving door when it came to assistants: they could always make more elsewhere. The blame for this goes back to the administration and the BOG: there were people there who couldn't fathom paying a football coach over a million dollars and who pined for playing in the Patriot League.

 

[RUDivision]

I don't think so. The buyout on his contract will still be large. We won't see a performance based change until the end of the 2027 season at the earliest.

I don't think the time is right to make a change. While the year is showing a lack of depth (still), we have had an enormously large number of injuries, along with 3 separate one score losses. If 2 of those were turned around, we are 8-4 -- which would have been a successful season considering all the injuries we have suffered.

Agreed and a good coach wins all 3 of those games and it’s the best season in RU football history.
Schiano is not the guy

 

[RUTGERS95]

Thank you. This is exactly the case. In addition, the salary pool for the assistant coaches was pathetic. That is why Flood had a revolving door when it came to assistants: they could always make more elsewhere. The blame for this goes back to the administration and the BOG: there were people there who couldn't fathom paying a football coach over a million dollars and who pined for playing in the Patriot League.

it's the school that fked us as much as Greg

24hrs earlier, he assured the school he wasn't leaving. Of course the admin had no plan b despite the various overtures to Greg. a screw up all around

another example of why I'd never let anyone working at RU take my trash much less rely on them for something important.

colossal mismanagement

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

it's the school that fked us as much as Greg

24hrs earlier, he assured the school he wasn't leaving. Of course the admin had no plan b despite the various overtures to Greg. a screw up all around

another example of why I'd never let anyone working at RU take my trash much less rely on them for something important.

colossal mismanagement

Rumor had it at the time that they told him they were cutting his salary back on the next contract to basically what they offered Cristobal & Flood.

Can’t imagine anyone having loyalty to RU if that’s the case.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Rumor had it at the time that they told him they were cutting his salary back on the next contract to basically what they offered Cristobal & Flood.

Can’t imagine anyone having loyalty to RU if that’s the case.

I would say with 100% certainty that was not the case. He left for the opportunity, paid handsomely with lots of perks, for the NFL. He assessed where RU was and determined he really couldn't raise the bar that much further ; resources, conference, etc.. It wasnt' the wrong call for his career to be honest as coaching in the NFL is the Apex of the profession but he misled the school and the team on intentions.

 

[jtung230]

Agreed and a good coach wins all 3 of those games and it’s the best season in RU football history.
Schiano is not the guy

We need a good coach that win all the games w/o NIL and not a high salary. Find that guy. Maybe that guy needs to chip in GS’s buyout too.

 

[RUDivision]

We need a good coach that win all the games w/o NIL and not a high salary. Find that guy. Maybe that guy needs to chip in GS’s buyout too.

Stop a good coach raises the level of NIL
Are Oc is top 10 paid in the country
DC top 25
Greg will also be top 25 in the country when his escalator kicks in

Greg is a horrific game day coach time to move on

 

[Pils86]

Sorry but this is clueless. Next years schedule is particularly difficult, with four likely losses, 4 likely wins, and the rest 50/50.

Likely Losses
Penn State
Ohio State
Oregon
Iowa

50/50
Illinois
Washington
Maryland
Minnesota

Likely Wins
Miami of Ohio
Ohio
TBD
Purdue

3 of the 4 50/50's are away, I don't think they are 50/50's unfortunately.

 

[RUDivision]

3 of the 4 50/50's are away, I don't think they are 50/50's unfortunatel

Agreed lucky to get 5 with Gregs development program being thrust into action.

 

[jtung230]

Stop a good coach raises the level of NIL
Are Oc is top 10 paid in the country
DC top 25
Greg will also be top 25 in the country when his escalator kicks in

Greg is a horrific game day coach time to move on

You think other coaches don’t have escalating clauses? Now the new coach also has to raise NIL too? Let’s go find that guy.

 

[RUDivision]

You think other coaches don’t have escalating clauses? Now the new coach also has to raise NIL too? Let’s go find that guy.

Even if you want to continue with this defeatist attitude about coaches and money Greg is top 33 in the country, Kirk is top 10 in the country,. Are you getting results to warrant this ridiculous loyalty to a bad football coach.

Where have you been the biggest job of a head coach in the new college landscape is NIL. He’ll all agents are negotiating that into coaches contracts. Cigentti coming from JMU or Prime coming from Jackson st didn’t seem to have a problem with raising NIL.

All of the old excuses are gone for Greg! He’s just bad

 

[jtung230]

Even if you want to continue with this defeatist attitude about coaches and money Greg is top 33 in the country, Kirk is top 10 in the country,. Are you getting results to warrant this ridiculous loyalty to a bad football coach.

Where have you been the biggest job of a head coach in the new college landscape is NIL. He’ll all agents are negotiating that into coaches contracts. Cigentti coming from JMU or Prime coming from Jackson st didn’t seem to have a problem with raising NIL.

All of the old excuses are gone for Greg! He’s just bad

You mean 12th in the B1G? Are in 12th place?

 

[RUDivision]

You mean 12th in the B1G? Are in 12th place?

Ok so if we made Greg the highest paid coach in the country he would finish first in the Big ten and win the CFP?

Stop hes a clown coach

 

[fsg2]

A stupid argument could be made that HC Schiano (and not Rutgers the institution) is the blame for the poor hires of Flood and Ash.

Flood - obviously the timing threw any normal hiring process out the door.

Ash - the school hired a young defensive coach from a perennially successful elite school.
Looks a lot like they were trying to replicate the HC Schiano's framework.

Perhaps if Rutgers wasn't influenced by HC Schiano's prior success they wouldn't have tried to run it back with a similar profile coach?

FIFY

 

[jtung230]

Ok so if we made Greg the highest paid coach in the country he would finish first in the Big ten and win the CFP?

Stop hes a clown coach

No, then you can hire a coach that can. Duh

 

[rutgersguy1]

No, then you can hire a coach that can. Duh

That’s just an assumption regardless of salary. I’ve already given the examples of Riley and Kelly and Stoops.

Mark Stoops is the 9th highest paid coach in the country. He’s currently 4-7/1-7 and the two years before he was 7-6/3-5.

 

[jtung230]

That’s just an assumption regardless of salary. I’ve already given the examples of Riley and Kelly and Stoops.

Mark Stoops is the 9th highest paid coach in the country. He’s currently 4-7/1-7 and the two years before he was 7-6/3-5.

What about the 8 coaches ahead of him. I see K Smart is the highest. How many NC did he win?

 

[rutgersguy1]

What about the 8 coaches ahead of him. I see K Smart is the highest. How many NC did he win?

Sure and I’d say probably about 7 out of the top 10 won’t even make the playoffs this year.

On top of which we’re closer to UK on the totem pole than UGA.

Pay commentate with results. I got no problems paying for results in any given year. I have issues overpaying for lackluster performance. No AD looks to change the paradigm for compensation and they’re all just lemmings going over financial cliffs.

Also take into account that Kelly and Riley have been very successful coaches and even then you still can’t make assumptions about performance. It’s all a crap shoot and just paying more money doesn’t necessarily lead to anything.

 

[MADHAT1]

No, then you can hire a coach that can. Duh

I've been asking those wanting Greg gone and acting like he can easily be replaced.
Why since Frank Burns was fired, at the end of the 1983 season, hasn't Rutgers found someone that could bring Rutgers to the elite level or show better results then Greg, who they consider a failure, since Rutgers left D-1AA scheduling behind and went to a D-1A scheduled in 1980 .
It don't come easy might be the words that describe getting the type of HC that can make RU elite
Until then, Schiano is the best you can expect to get because : a better one would be the HC instead of giving Rutgers a wide berth when job hunting when Rutgers was looking

Do I want a better one ???, yes indeed I do, I even expected to see Rutgers hire one as his replacement when he left in 2011. Didn't happen !! and felt there were better choices out there to replace Ash.
But didn't see any of them hired. Say what you want, but Rutgers wasn't gona give them what they wanted and Schiano had to fight tooth and nail for what the program needed . He was hired and gicen most of what he demanded because the fanbase made Hobbs hire him and better canidates wasled away without the job because Hobbs wouldn't meet their demands and the RU fanbase wasn't forcing him to work out a deal to bring them in

So the good ones didn't want to come so the 2020 season seen Greg come back to fix the same problem he had in 2001 : makeing Rutgers a respected program from the one considered being a bottom of barrel one.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Stop a good coach raises the level of NIL
Are Oc is top 10 paid in the country
DC top 25
Greg will also be top 25 in the country when his escalator kicks in

Greg is a horrific game day coach time to move on

LOL that’s not how it works, the better the coach the larger the expectation that the NIL is already in place and will increase annually to keep up. They aren’t fund raising it themselves after taking the job. Only RU fans would be this dense.

 

[jtung230]

Sure and I’d say probably about 7 out of the top 10 won’t even make the playoffs this year.

On top of which we’re closer to UK on the totem pole than UGA.

Pay commentate with results. I got no problems paying for results in any given year. I have issues overpaying for lackluster performance. No AD looks to change the paradigm for compensation and they’re all just lemmings going over financial cliffs.

Also take into account that Kelly and Riley have been very successful coaches and even then you still can’t make assumptions about performance. It’s all a crap shoot and just paying more money doesn’t necessarily lead to anything.

The last 10 champs were all from schools that pay top 10 coaches. Mich had a charge otherwise JH would be in the top 10. It’s not a crap shoot.

 

[rutgersguy1]

The last 10 champs were all from schools that pay top 10 coaches. Mich had a charge otherwise JH would be in the top 10. It’s not a crap shoot.

Ok and how many of those top 10 coaches didn't make the playoffs. Obviously, most of them because there were only 4 spots but even in a year where there are 12 spots a majority won't make it. Odds aren't in your favor of high level results just because your pay is high level. That is a crap shoot.

Also a bunch of those were Saban and Dabo. Orgeron was making 3M vicinity IIRC when he got hired. I'd be surprised if that was top 10 when LSU won. Also doesn't look like Harbaugh was in the top 10 last year.

I don't like to use the word "proven" and think it gets thrown around way too much. I would have said Kelly and Riley were proven and going into destinations with everything you need and they still can't perform up to expectations, let alone consistently do it, which is what you should expect at that compensation level.