OT: California moves closer to becoming first state to ban tackle football for kids under 12

[Ty Webb]

No it bothers me because it’s not based on science and the facts dispute it. Are they going to ban cheerleading. Lacrosse. And hockey. If not it’s BS. And saying there “might be benefits” isn’t science

Actually, yes, in cheerleading at younger ages, they are limited to what they can do (such as no stunts, etc.) because of potential injury, especially head injuries.

Also, hitting is not allowed in some youth hockey leagues. For example, Hockey Canada considers body checks in under 13 leagues a penalty.

I've already shown you that soccer and baseball have limitations to prevent injuries in youth sports.

Banning football tackling in under age 12 kids isn't some radical, crazy thing that California just came up with last week because they are pinko commies.

 

[RUGiddy777]

We played tackle football in the park without pads before Pop Warner practice up until about 8th grade. Because pop Warner leagues typically put weight limits on its participants, I find it hard to believe there’s enough force to cause serious head issues. I played tackle football from 2nd through 8th grade and never witnessed anyone get their bell rung the way I saw/experienced myself in high school.

That said, I believe in Texas kids play only flag up until HS in most parts of the state (if not all) and they produce the best players in the country. Do I think kids need to play tackle in youth leagues for the sport to survive? No.
But I do think college and pro will resemble more 7 on 7 in 15 - 20 years than football as we currently know it. People love passing more than running anyways so I don’t think it will kill the sport entirely.

Agreed. And while I think this rule is reasonable, I’m also of the opinion the NFL has gone too far.

We all played tackle with our friends - but since we were padless, no one hit with their heads or hit others in the head. Even the dumb ones.

 

[RUGiddy777]

Actually, yes, in cheerleading at younger ages, they are limited to what they can do (such as no stunts, etc.) because of potential injury, especially head injuries.

Also, hitting is not allowed in some youth hockey leagues. For example, Hockey Canada considers body checks in under 13 leagues a penalty.

I've already shown you that soccer and baseball have limitations to prevent injuries in youth sports.

Banning football tackling in under age 12 kids isn't some radical, crazy thing that California just came up with last week because they are pinko commies.

Soccer is an interesting one, since concussions really aren’t common in the sport. One of the greatest American born players (and arguably greatest player in NJ history) never got to realize his potential due to concussions.

 

[BoogieKnight]

Agreed. And while I think this rule is reasonable, I’m also of the opinion the NFL has gone too far.

We all played tackle with our friends - but since we were padless, no one hit with their heads or hit others in the head. Even the dumb ones.

And to someone else’s point, in all my years playing, the hardest I ever got hit was by my own teammate during practice. I was in 10th grade, it was camp and I was running a route over the middle. A senior, returning 1st team all-state inside linebacker nearly decapitated me. I was out for a few seconds but no concussion symptoms. Never was hit harder than that before or after, even in games.

 

[Plum Street]

we all have our own opinions about kids playing tackle football and the effect that has on them.
Before reading this thread I felt there was some risk ,but kids face risks doing other things as well
Example: baseball hitting them in head, bike accidents and other types of head injuries kids have playing around.
But checking into this issue instead of just going by what I think without fully understanding the facts, I tend to think error on the side of caution might be the best and not the let the chips fall where they may attitude because I felt the kids injuries playing football, under 12 is just a risk like any other other kids have growing up .

This article helped me decide error on the side of caution might be best when talking about pre-teen football .
Brain Study Shows Ex-NFL Players Negatively Affected by Youth Football | SPH
>For the study, researchers examined test scores of 42 former NFL players, with an average age of 52, all of whom had experienced memory and thinking problems for at least six months. Half the players had played tackle football before age 12, and half had not. Significantly, the total number of concussions was similar between the two groups.

Researchers found that the players exposed to tackle football before age 12 had greater impairment in mental flexibility, memory, and intelligence—a 20 percent difference in some cases. These findings held up even after statistically removing the effects of the total number of years the participants played football. Both groups scored below average on many of the tests.<

https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/article...layers-negatively-affected-by-youth-football/

Good post

Some people in this thread don’t have any clue about things .
But obviously @yesrutgers01 is pretty knowledgeable about the violence of the sport.

Football is a great sport to play . You learn a lot about teamwork , violence etc . My high school football practices were way harder than anything I came across in professional life . And I got yelled out a lot more! There was no HR department I could complain too. So I get it, but also realize maybe things could be safer.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Let’s really look at it. Yes- there will be kids under 12 that get head trauma and maybe for life, from sports. But break down the real numbers- how many millions of kids are playing each year.
We are usually talking about kids that are not hitting hard enough to do real damage. And, from 9-12, between practice and games, maybe 15% of plays they will be involved in compared to Highschool. A 4?year college player- takes that many plays in their first camp.
There are major $$$ in college and pro…nothing in youth- let’s blame youth for retired NFL players?

Of course, we do have to protect our youth- but this isn’t really the issue. How many people have been found with CTE after death that only played pop Warner and did nothing else traumatic the ready of their lives?

 

[fsg2]

Growing up n the 80’s….never received them

Well, that was 100 percent already the "era" to which the other poster previously referred. I got an annual team keepsake every year.

 

[fsg2]

Early 40s
No trophies unless we won the ship

Then you were in that era.

Perhaps not the league, but definitely the era. Not a new phenomenon.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Good post

Some people in this thread don’t have any clue about things .
But obviously @yesrutgers01 is pretty knowledgeable about the violence of the sport.

Football is a great sport to play . You learn a lot about teamwork , violence etc . My high school football practices were way harder than anything I came across in professional life . And I got yelled out a lot more! There was no HR department I could complain too. So I get it, but also realize maybe things could be safer.

The thing tgat is curious about this so called study- we all know if the Antonio Gates of the world that didn’t play football early - but calling complete BS that almost half those players didn’t play football before 12.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Good post

Some people in this thread don’t have any clue about things .
But obviously @yesrutgers01 is pretty knowledgeable about the violence of the sport.

Football is a great sport to play . You learn a lot about teamwork , violence etc . My high school football practices were way harder than anything I came across in professional life . And I got yelled out a lot more! There was no HR department I could complain too. So I get it, but also realize maybe things could be safer.

Haha our wrestling practices made football players puke just watching us. Lol

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Then you were in that era.

Perhaps not the league, but definitely the era. Not a new phenomenon.

I played football, baseball, bball, soccer & wrestled

None of the league ls we were in provided hardware unless you won the title

 

[vkj91]

Actually, yes, in cheerleading at younger ages, they are limited to what they can do (such as no stunts, etc.) because of potential injury, especially head injuries.

Also, hitting is not allowed in some youth hockey leagues. For example, Hockey Canada considers body checks in under 13 leagues a penalty.

I've already shown you that soccer and baseball have limitations to prevent injuries in youth sports.

Banning football tackling in under age 12 kids isn't some radical, crazy thing that California just came up with last week because they are pinko commies.

So your opinion is better than this research which I posted.

Complete Concussions specializes in collaborative, evidence-based concussion care. Our evidence-based training programs and integrated healthcare technologies empower multidisciplinary teams to implement standardized care for those impacted by concussions.

Our network and patient database enables large-scale research to advance concussion management, and ultimately, the long-term health and well-being of concussion patients and also teach them some concussion care at home.

 

[vkj91]

Soccer is an interesting one, since concussions really aren’t common in the sport. One of the greatest American born players (and arguably greatest player in NJ history) never got to realize his potential due to concussions.

This makes your sour crude argument seem informed. Do you just make stuff up and hope it’s ignored.
From the big ten

WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. — Up to 22% of soccer injuries are concussions that can result from players using their heads to direct the ball during a game.

 

[fsg2]

Iall

I played football, baseball, bball, soccer & wrestled

None of the league ls we were in provided hardware unless you won the title

I'm around your same age. I received a trophy for baseball and soccer every. Year. Even had a big ceremony every year for baseball. So did loads of others I know.

Others here are older and had same experience.

You said "era," not me. Was well underway through your childhood, I assure you.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

I don't support this bill at all

I'm around your same age. I received a trophy for baseball and soccer every. Year. So did loads of others I know.

You said "era" not me.

Guess it was different leagues
There was always pizza party at the end but no hardware
Not totally sure what the point is of getting one if you didn’t win it all

 

[Plum Street]

Haha our wrestling practices made football players puke just watching us. Lol

Yes . Wrestling is way harder . Totally agree . Definitely physically . But I don’t think you get the team building aspect of it like you get in football

You gave off good genes . I figured you played football?

 

[Plum Street]

Let’s really look at it. Yes- there will be kids under 12 that get head trauma and maybe for life, from sports. But break down the real numbers- how many millions of kids are playing each year.
We are usually talking about kids that are not hitting hard enough to do real damage. And, from 9-12, between practice and games, maybe 15% of plays they will be involved in compared to Highschool. A 4?year college player- takes that many plays in their first camp.
There are major $$$ in college and pro…nothing in youth- let’s blame youth for retired NFL players?

Of course, we do have to protect our youth- but this isn’t really the issue. How many people have been found with CTE after death that only played pop Warner and did nothing else traumatic the ready of their lives?

Yeah but didn’t you play football ?

 

[fsg2]

Guess it was different leagues
There was always pizza party at the end but no hardware
Not totally sure what the point is of getting one if you didn’t win it all

Seasonal souvenir, along with the team photo? Waste of money otherwise.

 

[Plum Street]

Let’s really look at it. Yes- there will be kids under 12 that get head trauma and maybe for life, from sports. But break down the real numbers- how many millions of kids are playing each year.
We are usually talking about kids that are not hitting hard enough to do real damage. And, from 9-12, between practice and games, maybe 15% of plays they will be involved in compared to Highschool. A 4?year college player- takes that many plays in their first camp.
There are major $$$ in college and pro…nothing in youth- let’s blame youth for retired NFL players?

Of course, we do have to protect our youth- but this isn’t really the issue. How many people have been found with CTE after death that only played pop Warner and did nothing else traumatic the ready of their lives?

They usually don’t test for CTE? Do they ?

Easier analysis would be how many guys had CTE and played pop warner ?
Seah, duereson , McNair ? Did they play pop warner ?

 

[Plum Street]

You're assuming all government overreach will only apply to kids under 12? Are you in the market for a bridge?

Lol they haven’t done a millitary draft in 50 years !! 50 !

Wait you’re the guy that said you wouldn’t be a rutgers fan because of NIl and the chop 4 change politics , but plan vacations based on the team ? I told you that you would still be here !
Boy that cried wolf!!

 

[RU205]

We played tackle football in the park without pads before Pop Warner practice up until about 8th grade. Because pop Warner leagues typically put weight limits on its participants, I find it hard to believe there’s enough force to cause serious head issues. I played organized tackle football from 2nd through 8th grade and never witnessed anyone get their bell rung the way I witnessed/experienced myself in high school.

That said, I believe in Texas kids play only flag up until HS in most parts of the state (if not all) and they produce the best players in the country. Do I think kids need to play tackle in youth leagues for the sport to survive? No. But I do think college and pro will resemble more 7 on 7 in 15 - 20 years than football as we currently know it. People love passing more than running anyways so I don’t think it will kill the sport entirely.

I would like to see NJ develop more 7 on 7 leagues year round. It’s a good way to produce QBs and WRs which would benefit RU.

 

[RUGiddy777]

Let’s really look at it. Yes- there will be kids under 12 that get head trauma and maybe for life, from sports. But break down the real numbers- how many millions of kids are playing each year.
We are usually talking about kids that are not hitting hard enough to do real damage. And, from 9-12, between practice and games, maybe 15% of plays they will be involved in compared to Highschool. A 4?year college player- takes that many plays in their first camp.
There are major $$$ in college and pro…nothing in youth- let’s blame youth for retired NFL players?

Of course, we do have to protect our youth- but this isn’t really the issue. How many people have been found with CTE after death that only played pop Warner and did nothing else traumatic the ready of their lives?

I’d offer up Aaron Hernandez as an imperfect counterpoint. Only 6 seasons of college and pro ball and his brain was mush. Stage 3 CTE. But the behavioral stuff followed him from high school onward.

 

[Shelby65]

They usually don’t test for CTE? Do they ?

Easier analysis would be how many guys had CTE and played pop warner ?
Seah, duereson , McNair ? Did they play pop warner ?

Can’t test for it while the subject is alive. Same reason rabies can’t be tested for. Brain needs to be dissected for pathology inspection. This is why above I noted there have been a total of 0 autopsies looking for CTE in 9 year olds who played tackle football.

This isn’t remotely about concussion risk. It’s about repeated jolts to the brain case over time causing increasing damage. It’s why football is different than what the worthless word vomit village idiot clowns put up as evidence in cheer, soccer, whatever.

Nobody has tested for lung damage in 2 year old smokers either, but that’s not a justification for allowing it.

 

[Plum Street]

Can’t test for it while the subject is alive. Same reason rabies can’t be tested for. Brain needs to be cut up for pathology inspection. This is why above I noted there have been a total of 0 autopsies looking for CTE in 9 year olds who played tackle football.

Well @yesrutgers01 posed the question .
He will answer about the guys that played pop Warner and had CTE.
Mike Webster had CTE and didn’t play pop
Warner I don’t think

 

[Shelby65]

Well @yesrutgers01 posed the question .
He will answer about the guys that played pop Warner and had CTE.
Mike Webster had CTE and didn’t play pop
Warner I don’t think

Some chain smokers don’t get lung cancer. The causation is real, but not 100%. Same as CTE from playing football for many years.

 

[RUBOB72]

TV

Uh, Bob, that response wasn't to you, it was to yesrutgers. I literally quoted the dude.

So your clown comment was kind of a self own right there.

sure … no problem big guy

 

[RUBOB72]

In fairness, yes is one of the few who has been around all levels of the game and his opinions are informed by experience. He’s not forming an opinion based on his political leanings, whereas others are only opposing because it was proposed in a blue state.

Sure …

 

[RUGiddy777]

Can’t test for it while the subject is alive. Same reason rabies can’t be tested for. Brain needs to be dissected for pathology inspection. This is why above I noted there have been a total of 0 autopsies looking for CTE in 9 year olds who played tackle football.

This isn’t remotely about concussion risk. It’s about repeated jolts to the brain case over time causing increasing damage. It’s why football is different than what the worthless word vomit village idiot clowns put up as evidence in cheer, soccer, whatever.

Nobody has tested for lung damage in 2 year old smokers either, but that’s not a justification for allowing it.

To be honest, as a former player, I mostly dismissed the risks in soccer and thought heading restrictions were onerous.

But im content to err on the side of caution.

 

[yesrutgers01]

They usually don’t test for CTE? Do they ?

Easier analysis would be how many guys had CTE and played pop warner ?
Seah, duereson , McNair ? Did they play pop warner ?

You are missing tge point- 95% or better played youth football.
The damage did not happen as a youth.
The only study that could make sense
Kids played until 12 and never did anything after.
Kids who played pre 12 and through HS with nothing physical after
Young men that played through college and nothing since
NFL players that started pre 12 and NFL players that started post 12

 

[Andy117]

While I'm no Trump fan boy, at least he talks like he wants to fix the uniparty swamp. If he's stopped, well we're running out of boxes...

Talk doesn't matter when he's actually worse than the swamp.

 

[RUScrew85]

Talk doesn't matter when he's actually worse than the swamp.

<EYEROLL>

 

[brgRC90]

I don't agree with this but it's oh so predictable that the same California bashers crying about a nanny state support efforts in Florida to keep kids from seeing drag queens, of all dangerous things, and removing books from shelves. Prohibiting kids under 18 from getting gender changing treatment is "protecting kids"--GOOD--but prohibiting kids under 12 from athletic injury is NOT protecting kids but governmental overreach. At least be consistent for once.

 

[Shelby65]

I don't agree with this but it's oh so predictable that the same California bashers crying about a nanny state support efforts in Florida to keep kids from seeing drag queens, of all dangerous things, and removing books from shelves. Prohibiting kids under 18 from getting gender changing treatment is "protecting kids"--GOOD--but prohibiting kids under 12 from athletic injury is NOT protecting kids but governmental overreach. At least be consistent for once.

1000 percent on target.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

In regard to FL vs. CA, the only thing that really matters is… who produces the best damn college football recruits !!!

 

[zappaa]

Talk doesn't matter when he's actually worse than the swamp.

The boxes are worse

 

[Plum Street]

You are missing tge point- 95% or better played youth football.
The damage did not happen as a youth.
The only study that could make sense
Kids played until 12 and never did anything after.
Kids who played pre 12 and through HS with nothing physical after
Young men that played through college and nothing since
NFL players that started pre 12 and NFL players that started post 12

You are missing the point. . That’s why you can’t definitely say pop warner didn’t contribute unless that guy didn’t play pop warner. What you are saying may be right , but you can’t prove it unless a study like that is done. And since you said 95 percent of nfl guys played youth tackle , your opinion is going to be hard to prove. Like I said you may be right , but you can’t really prove it. Common sense yes would dictate bigger stronger guys are suffering bigger hits. But common sense would also dictate having a kid’s developing brain gey hit is not good either


I am sure there were lots of concussions not reported on the pop warner level . It’s not like they have doctors on staff at practices

 

[vkj91]

They usually don’t test for CTE? Do they ?

Easier analysis would be how many guys had CTE and played pop warner ?
Seah, duereson , McNair ? Did they play pop warner ?

Lol. In your analysis make sure you eliminate anyone who played other sports, rode bikes, played outside or had siblings.

 

[Plum Street]

Lol. In your analysis make sure you eliminate anyone who played other sports, rode bikes, played outside or had siblings.

lol well that’s why it’s pretty much impossible to definitely say. You have to use information that is available to make decisions. . The logic that not allowing tackling until 13 because it limits hits to kids heads, doesn’t seem like the craziest thing ever. Does it ? It is not the downfall of society as some in this thread think it is .

 

[vkj91]

I don't agree with this but it's oh so predictable that the same California bashers crying about a nanny state support efforts in Florida to keep kids from seeing drag queens, of all dangerous things, and removing books from shelves. Prohibiting kids under 18 from getting gender changing treatment is "protecting kids"--GOOD--but prohibiting kids under 12 from athletic injury is NOT protecting kids but governmental overreach. At least be consistent for once.

Lol. Are you really comparing gender changing treatments on minors to football?
Why the need to always bring your sexuality into threads.
Your gay
Your dad hates you
Nobody cares.

Now try to explain why youth football should be banned

 

[vkj91]

lol well that’s why it’s pretty much impossible to definitely say. You have to use information that is available to make decisions. . The logic that not allowing tackling until 13 because it limits hits to kids heads, doesn’t seem like the craziest thing ever. Does it ? It is not the downfall of society as some in this thread think it is .

To you because you never played and don’t love football. To people who do it matters because there is ZERO evidence. Again, it’s fourth or fifth in concussions. So ban the others first.