OT: I-695 Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses

[Armor and Sword]

Crossed that bridge many times. Very imposing when you approach it from the outer loop/Dundalk side, they do offer bridge driver escorts for those too scared to drive it. It's a mini Bay Bridge (also very fear inducing). I never feared collapse of that bridge or a ship hitting it, though I feared getting into an accident on it. I always feared collapse of the Tydings Bridge on 95 over the Susquehanna.

Appears to me that the ship hitting the Key Bridge was out of position, I think it should've traveled to the right of the bridge pier (pylon/support) that it hit, not to the left.

 

[Ty Webb]

Crossed that bridge many times. Very imposing when you approach it from the outer loop/Dundalk side, they do offer bridge driver escorts for those too scared to drive it. It's a mini Bay Bridge (also very fear inducing). I never feared collapse of that bridge or a ship hitting it, though I feared getting into an accident on it. I always feared collapse of the Tydings Bridge on 95 over the Susquehanna.

Appears to me that the ship hitting the Key Bridge was out of position, I think it should've traveled to the right of the bridge pier (pylon/support) that it hit, not to the left.

So true about when you approach it from the one side. Looks so skinny, tall, etc.

 

[Ty Webb]

Absolutely terrible. Only two survivors. Between the fall and water temps very unlikely anyone else survived.
From a commerce side that basically shuts down the Baltimore Harbor commercial business for a long time.

In 2022 Baltimore Harbor was the #11 busiest port in the US.

Sad to even talk about this given the loss of life but in reality as you said, this is a financial mess as well given it's the only way in and out of the harbor, it was the main thoroughfare for certain trucks, etc.

 

[ashokan]

Dali cargo ship's TEU was 10,000 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-foot_equivalent_unit )
In 1970 (bridge opened 1972) the high TEU was 3000.

"The largest available container ships have increased dramatically in size over the last 40 years. In 1970, the highest TEU capacity was in the range of 3,000 TEU. By the late 1980s, the largest ships could hold 4,500 TEU, followed in the 1990s by Maersk's “R” class and “S” class at 6,000 at 8,000 TEU respectively."

Container Ship Loads New TEU Record

On December 16, United Arab Shipping Company (UASC) announced that it had loaded what it described?as a record-breaking 18,600 TEUs on board its ULCV

maritime-executive.com

 

[RUhasarrived]

When the Sunshine Skyway bridge collapsed in 1980,the 1950 Phillies' Whiz Kids shortstop,Granny Hamner,was three cars away from going into Tampa Bay.He later said:"That makes up for all of the line drives that were caught."

 

[ashokan]

No injuries among Indian ship crew (headed for Sri Lanka - departed from Panama). There were two pilots on the ship

"The ship "lost propulsion" as it was leaving port, and crew on board notified Maryland officials they had lost control of the vessel, ABC News reported, citing an unclassified U.S. intelligence report....

The ship was identified as the Dali, owned by Grace Ocean Pte Ltd and managed by Synergy Marine Corp. Synergy said the Dali collided with one of the pillars of the bridge and that all its crew members, including the two pilots, had been accounted for and there were no reports of any injuries."

Singapore-flagged container ship brings down Baltimore bridge

Rescuers find 2 survivors in search for people sent plunging into river

asia.nikkei.com

 

[toby83]

bridge building always makes me think of this comic

 

[Joey Bags]

I wonder how much time elapsed between the ship losing power/propulsion and striking the bridge. Not enough time to drop anchor I guess? Not even sure if that would have done anything with a ship that size with forward motion.

 

[Ty Webb]

I wonder how much time elapsed between the ship losing power/propulsion and striking the bridge. Not enough time to drop anchor I guess? Not even sure if that would have done anything with a ship that size with forward motion.

There is a guy that runs a shipping youtube channel and he said there is video from a police helicopter that appears to show they dropped the port anchor but ship was moving too fast/too much momentum for the anchor to stop the ship.

 

[toby83]

 

[MrsScrew]

Video showing the power loss & smoke from the ship immediately before hitting the bridge

A better explanation of what happened early morning today 😞 Here’s the full (sped up) video with a breakdown of the container ship B-lining into one of the Key Bridge pillars. #Baltimore #keybridge #maryland #news #baltimorebridge #baltimorebridge

A better explanation of what happened early morning today 😞 Here’s the full (sped up) video with a breakdown of the container ship B-lining into one of the Key Bridge pillars. #Baltimore...

www.facebook.com

 

[yesrutgers01]

Dropping anchor isn’t going to do much. They are reporting that the crew sent a mayday when they lost power and bridge workers were able to stop a lot of the traffic from getting on the bridge and saving a ton of lives

 

[ashokan]

There is a guy that runs a shipping youtube channel and he said there is video from a police helicopter that appears to show they dropped the port anchor but ship was moving too fast/too much momentum for the anchor to stop the ship.

I wonder if anchor could have affected direction.

Right after first blackout the ship was coming in angled - then the rear swung to port and the straightened ship aimed into the pillar,

I heard a 10 year Navy officer say the crews and captains on these things aren't the best

 

[yesrutgers01]

I wonder if anchor could have affected direction.

Right after first blackout the ship was coming in angled - then the rear swung to port and the straightened ship aimed into the pillar,

I heard a 10 year Navy officer say the crews and captains on these things aren't the best

My first thought was that is crazy. One would think that with the size of the ship and cargo on open sea…
But I googled it and most Cargo Ship Cap’s are making less than 60k per year and in some cases, much less.

 

[knight_ru]

Crossed that bridge many times. Very imposing when you approach it from the outer loop/Dundalk side, they do offer bridge driver escorts for those too scared to drive it. It's a mini Bay Bridge (also very fear inducing). I never feared collapse of that bridge or a ship hitting it, though I feared getting into an accident on it. I always feared collapse of the Tydings Bridge on 95 over the Susquehanna.

Appears to me that the ship hitting the Key Bridge was out of position, I think it should've traveled to the right of the bridge pier (pylon/support) that it hit, not to the left.

I also hate the Tydings Bridge.
… seems like there is no wiggle room for accidents either.

 

[WhiteBus]

Horrifying

isnt there a system enabled to avoid what just happened, not familiar with shipping but arent these boats steered and in contact with someone on land

Simply when you lose power there isn't a damn thing you can do. Momentum rules at that point. They weren't in the narrow part of the harbor which would require tugs to take control.

I was looking at the night video and day photos, and it starts to seem like the cargo ship was too big for the bridge. Ship was barely going to make it under the bridge's road 185 ft in the air.

Seriously??? Jeez. Did you use your secret decoder ring to come up with your theory??

 

[ashokan]

Seriously??? Jeez. Did you use your secret decoder ring to come up with your theory??

Yes - I'd give you one if I had an extra because the need is showing

 

[WhiteBus]

Yes - I'd give you one if I had an extra because the need is showing

I guess you don't know that the height of ship is paramount to it clearing the bridge. The total size of the ship is irrelevant if it was under control and in the channel to go under the highest point of the bridge.

 

[applesktrack]

I also hate the Tydings Bridge.
… seems like there is no wiggle room for accidents either.

Tydings is rough. I hate driving over the Chesapeake City bridge.

 

[m1ipabrams]

Looks like the above water portion of the piers on this bridge were slender concrete columns. This handles the vertical load of the bridge very well, but as is commonly known, concrete doesn't have nearly as much strength under tension or when lateral forces are applied. Looking at the grainy video it looks like the ship first hits the underwater portion of the pier, which is likely a pretty massive construction embedded into the floor of the bay, but rides up over it a bit and I think the tip of the bow of the ship impacts the slender above water columns, causing them to buckle and once one pier fails the rest of the bridge is doomed. Just hit it exactly in the wrong place, I bet if it was 20 feet in either direction it would have sort of bounced/slid off the underwater portion without causing a catastrophic collapse.

 

[RUInsanity]

Dropping anchor isn’t going to do much. They are reporting that the crew sent a mayday when they lost power and bridge workers were able to stop a lot of the traffic from getting on the bridge and saving a ton of lives

The police radio link in this thread confirms that. Also when you watch the long video it shows traffic (car and truck lights) coming across the bridge early but as the barge gets close to crashing there does not appear to be any.

 

[m1ipabrams]

I wonder if anchor could have affected direction.

Right after first blackout the ship was coming in angled - then the rear swung to port and the straightened ship aimed into the pillar,

I heard a 10 year Navy officer say the crews and captains on these things aren't the best

No self respecting naval officer is going to say a civilian captain (especially a foreign one) is any good :)

 

[Skull83]

From everything I've seen, it appears the harbor pilots would have still been in control - my understanding is that they are typically very well paid.

To the person wondering about the height of the ship, it was leaving the port - it had to get in there somehow.

 

[Postman_1]

I crossed through part of Maryland today to work in Delta PA. A few of the guys I was working with live very close to this and one of them thought they heard it. Prayers to all involved.

A few years ago I was doing electrical testing on the main sub of a similar size ship at Bayonne Dry Dock. While talking to the crew of the ship they made it seem like most ships don't do this to often. Our required scope was not even that through of a test. The conditions were very unsafe on the ship I was working on. I was glad when the job was over. I even told my shop I would not want to go back.

This made me think of Season 2 of The Wire. Nick and Frank Sobotka talking near the bridge.

 

[Jimpeg]

question the bridge is hit by a tanker...doesnt the Tanker have insurance?

 

[WhiteBus]

From everything I've seen, it appears the harbor pilots would have still been in control - my understanding is that they are typically very well paid.

To the person wondering about the height of the ship, it was leaving the port - it had to get in there somehow.

I laughed at his theory of "being too big for the bridge". I was going to say the same thing.

 

[RUPete]

The police radio link in this thread confirms that. Also when you watch the long video it shows traffic (car and truck lights) coming across the bridge early but as the barge gets close to crashing there does not appear to be any.

Yeah, it’s incredible that they were able to react quick enough at that hour to prevent even more loss of life. There is going to be a lot to study and learn from after this. But right now it’s about dealing with the tragedy immediately.

 

[RuSnp]

question the bridge is hit by a tanker...doesnt the Tanker have insurance?

Not a tanker. And yes.

 

[Ridge 22]

Harbor pilot would have control of the vessel in that situation, not the ships captain

 

[WhiteBus]

Harbor pilot would have control of the vessel in that situation, not the ships captain

Not there. Too far away from the controlled area of Baltimore Harbor. They are on their own there.

 

[Purple-Ed]

No self respecting naval officer is going to say a civilian captain (especially a foreign one) is any good :)

Any self respecting naval officer would know that a harbor master was in control of the ship.

 

[ashokan]

I laughed at his theory of "being too big for the bridge". I was going to say the same thing.

Too big and moving with too much force - engineers said.

"The Francis Scott Key Bridge opened in 1977. Its design is a steel truss bridge. The bridge was resting on concrete piers before the impact, experts said based on footage shared online.

"The support is a very, relatively, flimsy structure when you look at it — it's a kind of trestle structure with individual legs," Ian Firth, a structural engineer and bridge consultant in the UK, told the BBC. "So, the bridge has collapsed simply as a result of this very large impact force."

The collapsed Baltimore bridge didn't stand a chance against such a huge cargo ship, engineers say

The collapsed Baltimore bridge didn't stand a chance against such a huge cargo ship, engineers say

Experts told BI the strength of the cargo ship's impact seemed well out of the norm planned for by engineers.

www.businessinsider.com

The ship was much larger than what was common in 1972

"The largest available container ships have increased dramatically in size over the last 40 years. 1970, the highest TEU capacity was in the range of 3,000 TEU. By the late 1980s, the largest ships could hold 4,500 TEU, followed in the 1990s by Maersk's “R” class and “S” class at 6,000 at 8,000 TEU respectively."

The Dali was 10,000 TEU.
The bridge was like a tinker toy

 

[WhiteBus]

Too big and moving with too much force - engineers said.

"The Francis Scott Key Bridge opened in 1977. Its design is a steel truss bridge. The bridge was resting on concrete piers before the impact, experts said based on footage shared online.

"The support is a very, relatively, flimsy structure when you look at it — it's a kind of trestle structure with individual legs," Ian Firth, a structural engineer and bridge consultant in the UK, told the BBC. "So, the bridge has collapsed simply as a result of this very large impact force."

The collapsed Baltimore bridge didn't stand a chance against such a huge cargo ship, engineers say

The collapsed Baltimore bridge didn't stand a chance against such a huge cargo ship, engineers say

Experts told BI the strength of the cargo ship's impact seemed well out of the norm planned for by engineers.

www.businessinsider.com

The ship was much larger than what was common in 1972

"The largest available container ships have increased dramatically in size over the last 40 years. 1970, the highest TEU capacity was in the range of 3,000 TEU. By the late 1980s, the largest ships could hold 4,500 TEU, followed in the 1990s by Maersk's “R” class and “S” class at 6,000 at 8,000 TEU respectively."

The Dali was 10,000 TEU.
The bridge was like a tinker toy

Jeez now you are changing your stupid statement and the smallest of all cargo ships hitting the support column would have had the same result. My god the stupidity from the new internet bridge investigator.
Let me remind you of your dumb comment earlier.
"Ship was barely going to make it under the bridge's road 185 ft in the air.... I also came across articles saying bridge engineering was good but the ship was too massive."

 

[T2Kplus20]

The police radio link in this thread confirms that. Also when you watch the long video it shows traffic (car and truck lights) coming across the bridge early but as the barge gets close to crashing there does not appear to be any.

In the longer video posted above, you can clearly see a few tractor trailers crossing the bridge and then nothing. Wasn't sure if it was luck or intervention by the bridge crew.

 

[Armor and Sword]

I also hate the Tydings Bridge.
… seems like there is no wiggle room for accidents either.

Always fun when there's a high wind warning on that bridge.

 

[ashokan]

Jeez now you are changing your stupid statement and the smallest of all cargo ships hitting the support column would have had the same result. My god the stupidity from the new internet bridge investigator.
Let me remind you of your dumb comment earlier.
"Ship was barely going to make it under the bridge's road 185 ft in the air.... I also came across articles saying bridge engineering was good but the ship was too massive."

Yes of course the ship was higher than ships in 1972- everything was bigger than 1972.
The height was mentioned ALONG with the rest of the size.
Ships today (bigger than Baltimore's) need much more than 185 ft
You remind me of a DPW guy who kept laughing when I told him an oz of gold was less than 16 oz.

 

[ashokan]

"The ship in Tuesday's crash, Dali, was involved in at least one prior accident when it collided with a shipping pier in Belgium.

That 2016 incident occurred as the Dali was leaving port in Antwerp and struck a loading pier made of stone, causing damage to the ship’s stern, according to VesselFinder.com, a site that tracks ships across the world. An investigation determined a mistake made by the ship’s master and pilot was to blame."

Baltimore bridge collapse wasn't first major accident for giant container ship Dali

Baltimore bridge collapse wasn't first major accident for giant container ship Dali

The container ship that hit the Baltimore bridge on Tuesday was involved in a previous accident in 2016 when it slammed into a stone pier.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Tango Two]

VOA’s Iacopo Luzi reports from Baltimore, where six workers missing after a Baltimore bridge collapse Tuesday are presumed dead and the search for them has been suspended until Wednesday morning. #Baltimore #bridge #maritime #VOA #VoiceofAmerica |

VOA’s Iacopo Luzi reports from Baltimore, where six workers missing after a Baltimore bridge collapse Tuesday are presumed dead and the search for them has been suspended until Wednesday morning....

www.facebook.com

 

[ashokan]

Another engineer - old bridges cant survive modern cargo ship crash


"The dramatic collapse of Baltimore’s Francis Scott Key Bridge after being struck by a container ship as large as the MV Dali was inevitable, an engineering expert revealed...

Ben Schafer, a structural engineering professor at Johns Hopkins University, said that he doesn’t believe most bridges would have withstood the impact of a modern cargo ship.

“Fifty years into its design life and with its foundation, I don’t think there’s many bridges that are going to survive container ship head-on to one of its major supports directly as we saw this morning,” he told WTOP.

The 1.6-mile bridge, constructed in 1977, crumbled almost immediately after it was struck by them MV Dali, sending the roadway and several cars into the chilly waters below. The massive container ship, which can hold 130,000 tons of cargo and supplies, simply overwhelmed the bridge’s protective measures.

“Container ships have changed a lot since the 1970s. They’re bigger and bigger and bigger. When you see the images now, the container ship is as wide as the bridge was tall,” Schafer said.

Transportation Security Pete Buttigieg offered a similar take, saying Tuesday afternoon that he does “not know a bridge that has been constructed to withstand a direct impact from a vessel this size.”

Why the Baltimore Key Bridge crumbled so spectacularly after it was hit by cargo ship

Ben Schafer, a structural engineering professor at Johns Hopkins University, said that he doesn’t believe most bridges would have withstood the impact of a modern cargo ship.

nypost.com

The bridge was a toy compared to cargo beast

 

[m1ipabrams]

Any self respecting naval officer would know that a harbor master was in control of the ship.

You mean harbor pilot, but even when a pilot is on board, the captain is still in charge. Anyway, we are taking a joke comment way too serious.