ADVERTISEMENT

OT: Is this the most insane real estate market?

As soon as I saw that crypto and NFT taking off, I knew housing wasn’t far behind. The FOMO combined with I can’t lose mentality equals buy everything at all cost. You see it in a lot of none income producing or operating asset classes blowing up. But when the magic is gone, look out below.
 
This market is crazy. And much more crazy then the pre 2008 bust. My wife has had a lot of her clients offer cash purchase and then go for the mortgage after the offer is excepted. Very risky move by buyers.
Personally- we thought we got lucky to sell our house in Jan of 2020. We did ok on the sale but not quite what we had hoped for. And the killer is that when it sold and then COVID hit, our first thought was "Wow- we are lucky, no one is going to come out to look at houses during this pandemic" Little did we know, we most likely would have made an additional 300-400k if it hadn't sold in Jan.
And then we decided to rent a house at that time rather than try to purchase. Figured we would take a year and find our perfect downsized home and pocket some cash on the side. Little did we know, homes that were 2500-3000 sq ft were going to go for what we sold our larger home for.
So, here we are. 2 years and just signed the lease for another year of rental. And paying pretty much what we had thought our new mortgage would have been. Went to a couple of open houses this past month and it was crazy. First home we went to see had a line out to the road. They told us they had over 100 viewings the day before and already 20+ bids. Said they would only except new offers up to the end of day that monday. It ended up going for 150k over asking. And it was listed for 940k. Same with the 2nd house we went to see. 3rd house that day...we drove up- line out to the road again and we just called it a day.
Similar story with our second home in Sedona, Arizona.

The bust was brutal in Arizona in 2008-09. Picked up a home that for about 55-60% of the list price in 2007. We sold that house in June 2020 at nearly double what we paid for it, and right now, it would sell for probably another 40-50% over what we sold it for. We bought a lot and built a new home before the pandemic, and we were warned by a family member that we would likely be underwater on that home, and that home could now sell close to double what we have into the land and construction. Crazy.

The runup in Sedona has been due to the location, it being a smaller city, and lots of people coming from Phoenix and California.
 
This market is crazy. And much more crazy then the pre 2008 bust. My wife has had a lot of her clients offer cash purchase and then go for the mortgage after the offer is excepted. Very risky move by buyers.
Personally- we thought we got lucky to sell our house in Jan of 2020. We did ok on the sale but not quite what we had hoped for. And the killer is that when it sold and then COVID hit, our first thought was "Wow- we are lucky, no one is going to come out to look at houses during this pandemic" Little did we know, we most likely would have made an additional 300-400k if it hadn't sold in Jan.
And then we decided to rent a house at that time rather than try to purchase. Figured we would take a year and find our perfect downsized home and pocket some cash on the side. Little did we know, homes that were 2500-3000 sq ft were going to go for what we sold our larger home for.
So, here we are. 2 years and just signed the lease for another year of rental. And paying pretty much what we had thought our new mortgage would have been. Went to a couple of open houses this past month and it was crazy. First home we went to see had a line out to the road. They told us they had over 100 viewings the day before and already 20+ bids. Said they would only except new offers up to the end of day that monday. It ended up going for 150k over asking. And it was listed for 940k. Same with the 2nd house we went to see. 3rd house that day...we drove up- line out to the road again and we just called it a day.
I hear you - who would have imagined that COVID would create this type of housing madness. We need workers to go back to NYC because they are invading NJ. I hear the same on the West Coast. My mother lives outside L.A. and every house in her neighborhood is now $1M+ and up 30%+ in the last two years. The CA market is worse than NY. Not to mention that NYC is still like a ghost-town compared to the past so my question is how can big cities survive long term without daily workers/commuters?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BossNJ
I hear you - who would have imagined that COVID would create this type of housing madness. We need workers to go back to NYC because they are invading NJ. I hear the same on the West Coast. My mother lives outside L.A. and every house in her neighborhood is now $1M+ and up 30%+ in the last two years. The CA market is worse than NY. Not to mention that NYC is still like a ghost-town compared to the past so my question is how can big cities survive long term without daily workers/commuters?
Parts of Florida have even higher price increases.
 
This housing market is different in that there is a huge supply/demand in balance. It's been very costly and nearly impossible to build the last two years which has led to a huge shortage of houses. Also, there is literally trillions of extra dollars out there (thank you fed) combined with a generational move from multi family (apts) to single family houses.

there is no reason to think higher mortgages will cool this market until supply can pick up which it can't due to supply issues and labor shortgages on home construction.
This market can stay crazy for a long time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DirtyRU
The problem with selling your house in this market is you still need to buy in this market. The smart play is to sell and then rent for 2-3 years.
Unless you own a 2nd house.
 
The problem with selling your house in this market is you still need to buy in this market. The smart play is to sell and then rent for 2-3 years.
Why would prices be lower in 2-3 years especially when you factor in money you threw away renting.
Supply can't be completed right now so the market can still go up a lot.
 
Where is all this money coming from?? I understand the wealthy NYers moving out of the city to other locations but its quite insane.

I live in Colts Neck and my house has def appreciated a lot in value the past 2yrs but no way I could afford to sell and buy something else or even contemplate buying a summer house
Money is coming from a massive move higher in equity markets, still cheap financing despite backup in rates and a very tight labor market that has seen huge raises in certain industries.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Morrischiano
Why would prices be lower in 2-3 years especially when you factor in money you threw away renting.
Supply can't be completed right now so the market can still go up a lot.
If you do a traditional 30-year fixed, you don't pay off much principle in the first few years. So initially, renting isn't a big deal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LETSGORU91
The problem with selling your house in this market is you still need to buy in this market. The smart play is to sell and then rent for 2-3 years.
Exactly right. It is a roadblock to our dream house right now. As we were selling our home through 2019, we found a home in Mt. Arlington, right on the lake. Incredible house, completely in the taste of how my wife would have had it built for here. Owner is a realtor, and they had a plan to buy a condo on the lake but that fell through and then they took theirs off the market. They began looking down in Florida and we ended up becoming very good friends with them. They were going to allow us to make an offer on their home if they found their perfect Florida home. Then, pandemic hit...They would still love to sell us their house but the Florida market is even worse than what we are seeing up here. So- they are not planning to move until things settle down as you said, you sell your house now, you make a good profit but then you have to buy something else, and good chance you may lose that additional profit buy over bidding on your next purchase.
 
Why would prices be lower in 2-3 years especially when you factor in money you threw away renting.
Supply can't be completed right now so the market can still go up a lot.
Because In 2-3 years the people who are psychotic about covid will have calmed down or been voted out, people running the cities will come to their senses or be voted out, and all the city people fled will look to return. Also, as life becomes normal less people will look to move out of state and there will be people who risked to move down south that will realize it’s not for them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RUBlackout
technically I had it listed on MLS, but being that my daughter was the agent and the guy across the street walked over on day 1 and asked me to sell it to him and cancel all showings. If I had it listed with any agent, I'm guessing I would have had to pay at least 50% of the 5% commission, but since it was my daughter, I didn't have to.
Cheapskate

Pay your daughter 🤗
 
Money is coming from a massive move higher in equity markets, still cheap financing despite backup in rates and a very tight labor market that has seen huge raises in certain industries.
Add in The Great Wealth Transfer. $40-70 trillion will be inherited by GenX/Millennials from their parents. How much of that money is pumping or will pump into the housing market?
 
Add in The Great Wealth Transfer. $40-70 trillion will be inherited by GenX/Millennials from their parents. How much of that money is pumping or will pump into the housing market?
A lot of that money is already in the housing market.
 
This market is crazy. And much more crazy then the pre 2008 bust. My wife has had a lot of her clients offer cash purchase and then go for the mortgage after the offer is excepted. Very risky move by buyers.
Personally- we thought we got lucky to sell our house in Jan of 2020. We did ok on the sale but not quite what we had hoped for. And the killer is that when it sold and then COVID hit, our first thought was "Wow- we are lucky, no one is going to come out to look at houses during this pandemic" Little did we know, we most likely would have made an additional 300-400k if it hadn't sold in Jan.
And then we decided to rent a house at that time rather than try to purchase. Figured we would take a year and find our perfect downsized home and pocket some cash on the side. Little did we know, homes that were 2500-3000 sq ft were going to go for what we sold our larger home for.
So, here we are. 2 years and just signed the lease for another year of rental. And paying pretty much what we had thought our new mortgage would have been. Went to a couple of open houses this past month and it was crazy. First home we went to see had a line out to the road. They told us they had over 100 viewings the day before and already 20+ bids. Said they would only except new offers up to the end of day that monday. It ended up going for 150k over asking. And it was listed for 940k. Same with the 2nd house we went to see. 3rd house that day...we drove up- line out to the road again and we just called it a day.

But, at least from what I can tell, what's much less crazy is the financing. No liars loans like in 2005-8. And predominantly current owners who have a place to sell which produces the down payment as opposed to first time buyers.
 
Exactly right. It is a roadblock to our dream house right now. As we were selling our home through 2019, we found a home in Mt. Arlington, right on the lake. Incredible house, completely in the taste of how my wife would have had it built for here. Owner is a realtor, and they had a plan to buy a condo on the lake but that fell through and then they took theirs off the market. They began looking down in Florida and we ended up becoming very good friends with them. They were going to allow us to make an offer on their home if they found their perfect Florida home. Then, pandemic hit...They would still love to sell us their house but the Florida market is even worse than what we are seeing up here. So- they are not planning to move until things settle down as you said, you sell your house now, you make a good profit but then you have to buy something else, and good chance you may lose that additional profit buy over bidding on your next purchase.
Ha - if it makes you feel better I had basically the same scenario. Had a hand-shake deal for lake front property in my town before COVID hit at great price point and even set closing date. Became friends with the owners and waited years for that house. Owners were planning to move down the shore. Then COVID screwed up everything and they reneged because they can’t find anything to buy. The whole housing situation is a disaster.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: yesrutgers01
The problem with selling your house in this market is you still need to buy in this market. The smart play is to sell and then rent for 2-3 years.
That's what we plan to do. Higher rates will lower asset values...equities, real estate, fixed income, etc. My hope is to sell in the next month or two, wait for the inevitable market crash, put my money into equities at lower prices when things feel terrible, then when that turns around, buy my retirement home with the equity gains. I'm thinking it'll be a 3-5 year process.
 
If you do a traditional 30-year fixed, you don't pay off much principle in the first few years. So initially, renting isn't a big deal.
Also if you are sitting on the cash for a down payment, you can now put that into short term bonds at 3% or so and at least offset some of the cost of renting.
 
The problem with selling your house in this market is you still need to buy in this market. The smart play is to sell and then rent for 2-3 years.
Is it ? I think each situation would be different and really need to crunch numbers . I saw one-bedroom rentals going near garwood train station going for about 3k in rent . You do that for 3 years and you’re looking 100k
 
That's what we plan to do. Higher rates will lower asset values...equities, real estate, fixed income, etc. My hope is to sell in the next month or two, wait for the inevitable market crash, put my money into equities at lower prices when things feel terrible, then when that turns around, buy my retirement home with the equity gains. I'm thinking it'll be a 3-5 year process.
I wish it was a few years from now. If I could have gotten my youngest through most of HS, I could downsize and rent a condo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rutgersdave
Is it ? I think each situation would be different and really need to crunch numbers . I saw one-bedroom rentals going near garwood train station going for about 3k in rent . You do that for 3 years and you’re looking 100k
So less than half of what people are getting over asking. Not to mention, these people are all forgoing inspection. So no new roof, etc. and that hundred is over 3 years not up front. How much am I earning on that money even if I’m only getting 5-7% returns.
 
There are a couple of large differences between now and 2008

- Banks have improved underwriting (not doing subprimes)
- The Great Resignation is increasing purchasing power (people getting 20-30% raises)
- Boomers are starting to bequeath their wealth and thus putting down 20%+ is less of a reach

Many people I know in the market are aided by both of the last points.

WFH isn't going anywhere for large percentage of the population. People are now making educated decisions. It's why the market in both Manhattan and the suburbs is strong. There's city and country people, they all have money, they can choose where to live.

Also in terms of NYC long term, a lot of those offices will becomes condos or hotels. Some people still want to live in cities. People are vacationing, eating out, etc in record numbers. People have a lot of money to spend right now.

Prices will cool off but probably not back to 2019 numbers entirely once people settle in for the long haul.
 
There are a couple of large differences between now and 2008

- Banks have improved underwriting (not doing subprimes)
- The Great Resignation is increasing purchasing power (people getting 20-30% raises)
- Boomers are starting to bequeath their wealth and thus putting down 20%+ is less of a reach

Many people I know in the market are aided by both of the last points.

WFH isn't going anywhere for large percentage of the population. People are now making educated decisions. It's why the market in both Manhattan and the suburbs is strong. There's city and country people, they all have money, they can choose where to live.

Also in terms of NYC long term, a lot of those offices will becomes condos or hotels. Some people still want to live in cities. People are vacationing, eating out, etc in record numbers. People have a lot of money to spend right now.

Prices will cool off but probably not back to 2019 numbers entirely once people settle in for the long haul.
Other factor is the WFH point and you're one of the first to mention it. People in genera are placing more emphasis on their homes given time they'll spend there, and locally (although would likely apply nationally, this expands the range of locations for commuters. A 2 hour commute to NYC is brutal, but if you o lot have to do it 1-2 times a week, it's totally manageable.
 
Down here in NC it's a complete cluster.

It doesn't help they have this ridiculous Due Diligence Fee which is 100% nonrefundable no matter what happens. It was used in the past to show your commitment in buying the property and used to be no more than 500 to 1K. Now people are putting up 30-50k up front on houses that are between 300k-500k.

We made the move from NJ to NC over a year ago. We rented for a year to research areas we would be interested in, while pocketing the difference in NJ vs NC rent which was nearly $900 a month which then went towards our down payment. We ended up looking at 4 houses, put in one offer, sellers countered, we countered they accepted we moved into our new house at the end of March '22.
 
This housing market is different in that there is a huge supply/demand in balance. It's been very costly and nearly impossible to build the last two years which has led to a huge shortage of houses. Also, there is literally trillions of extra dollars out there (thank you fed) combined with a generational move from multi family (apts) to single family houses.

there is no reason to think higher mortgages will cool this market until supply can pick up which it can't due to supply issues and labor shortgages on home construction.
This market can stay crazy for a long time.
Things that go up must come down. Not sure when but the market will drop.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: tRUncheon
I hear you - who would have imagined that COVID would create this type of housing madness. We need workers to go back to NYC because they are invading NJ. I hear the same on the West Coast. My mother lives outside L.A. and every house in her neighborhood is now $1M+ and up 30%+ in the last two years. The CA market is worse than NY. Not to mention that NYC is still like a ghost-town compared to the past so my question is how can big cities survive long term without daily workers/commuters?

Yes. California is no different than anywhere else, except that the numbers are bigger. Here in Santa Barbara county we are about 100 miles from LA. Houses are regularly selling for 400-500K above asking. One story I just heard was a house in a moderatly desirable town, farthest from LA, sold the day it was listed, before it had even hit MLS, for 300k over list and had 4 offers.

What effect is the coming major recession going to have on housing prices? I agree the real problem is supply.
 
Yes. California is no different than anywhere else, except that the numbers are bigger. Here in Santa Barbara county we are about 100 miles from LA. Houses are regularly selling for 400-500K above asking. One story I just heard was a house in a moderatly desirable town, farthest from LA, sold the day it was listed, before it had even hit MLS, for 300k over list and had 4 offers.

What effect is the coming major recession going to have on housing prices? I agree the real problem is supply.
I don’t think prices will come down much with or without a recession, especially once people are fixated on what they believe their house is now worth based on outrageous increases, not to mention if you paid top dollar in last 2 years you are less likely to take a haircut. Need return to the office to force people back into the cities. Or, some event that dramatically impacts employment, wages, investments, etc.
 
We were lucky enough to buy at the bottom of the market in 1993 for $250K and just lately we've debated selling and downsizing to a smaller place (maybe even a rental, but those aren't cheap either) and pocketing a nice chunk of change (it's fully paid for), as it's just the two of us and given where the economy seems to be headed, I doubt it'll be worth nearly $800K for long. The problem is we won't find anything as big or as nice for what we pay in taxes now ($1500/month) - and we're lazy, lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Plum Street
While it will have no immediate impact and may turn out to be an outlier, there were a record number of housing starts in March, far exceeding expectations.

My own cynical outlook is the additional supply will hit the market just when the economy tanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DirtyRU
Reassessing home values doesn't directly increase tax revenue for towns. The overall tax revenue amount is set every year. Assessments just figure out who pays what portion of that amount.

But it can also be used as a fig leaf. "See, the assessment per dollar of valuation hasn't changed"
 
  • Like
Reactions: T2Kplus20
Highland Park hasn't been assessed since 1981 - they are finally starting a reassessment this year.

My Girlfriend and I bought our first house in East Brunswick in March 2019 for 375, Zillow says it's worth about 575 now and theres not really anything available in the neighborhood (Lawrence Brook).
 
Last edited:
Here is the reality. In 2006 I was saying the same thing about beach houses. But after the housing crash, i could’ve bought something nice but didn’t think it was a good investment anymore. Now I’m back saying the market is crazy. The point is, we all want to buy something that we think we can sell at a profit later. But as soon as that mindset changes lookout below.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HPNJRUfan
Really hoping for a big drop, or at least a cooling off and increased supply within a couple years as I’ll be outgrowing my 2 bed townhouse by then.

I’m on the border of Marlton/Mt. Laurel/Medford and the urban sprawl is continuing with a lot of new builds going up on old farmlands.

New Townhouses (2,800 sq feet) are selling for $550K-$600K and new Single Family homes with no backyard (3,800 square feet) are selling for $750K-$800K.

These are new/big houses but insane prices for South Jersey.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: redking
Really disappointing market to be a first time buyer. I’m 31, wife 29, both of us have crushed it from a personal finance perspective. We’re looking to start a family So the time to buy is right for us, we can’t really put off longer. Never in a million years would I have thought we’d be buying in the worst buying market in this country’s history.

0-3 on bids, the lowest we’ve offered over ask is 35k and we waive appraisal. My wife is a teacher, but apparently you need dual tech incomes to buy a 2k sq foot home in hunterdon. Bid on a 548k list home last month 4 bed 3 bath 2100 sq ft in Lebanon that ended going for 650k which was 15% over comps. We offered 600k. House sold in 2019 for 460k. We threw in the towel after that.

Throwing 600k at anything less than 4 beds just feels like a really bad decision in Hunterdon/Warren counties.
 
Really disappointing market to be a first time buyer. I’m 31, wife 29, both of us have crushed it from a personal finance perspective. We’re looking to start a family So the time to buy is right for us, we can’t really put off longer. Never in a million years would I have thought we’d be buying in the worst buying market in this country’s history.

0-3 on bids, the lowest we’ve offered over ask is 35k and we waive appraisal. My wife is a teacher, but apparently you need dual tech incomes to buy a 2k sq foot home in hunterdon. Bid on a 548k list home last month 4 bed 3 bath 2100 sq ft in Lebanon that ended going for 650k which was 15% over comps. We offered 600k. House sold in 2019 for 460k. We threw in the towel after that.

Throwing 600k at anything less than 4 beds just feels like a really bad decision in Hunterdon/Warren counties.
At this rate I think there’s a chance that people get fed up and go the extreme route of RVs/mobile homes. A fraction of the price of a SFH, much lower expenses, and fits the work from anywhere model.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT