OT: New York Mets 2024-2025 Off Season Thread

[BigEastPhil]

Thoughts on recent moves / lack of them:

- Very upset about possible divorce from Alonso. Would love to see at least for 1 year a foursome of: Lindor / Soto / Alonso and Vientos.

- Glad to see Winker back. DH vs righties. Like his style.

- Meh on Minter. Good reliever but never struck fear in me.

- This whole Alonso thing makes me wonder whether a “ wink” was provided to Soto about Vlad being here one way or another.

-

 

[nutfromSEC117]

 

[yesrutgers01]

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The same Walker whose best hitting season was barely better than Pete’s worst year. Same guy who is 3 years older? Just saying…

 

[Plum Street]

Would be easier said than done. Do you stop signing Dominican 16 year olds? Do you start signing American 16 year olds? Or do you just live with the inconsistency?

I don't believe in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" adage. But I have to ask - is it broke? Are there flaws in the current system that create inequities? Is allowing 16 year olds the right to determine their own future (or at least try to), really such a terrible thing?

If the current system were resulting in the rich and powerful franchises cornering all the top talent, then I would agree with you. But it's not, thanks to the spending caps governing international signings. You can go all-in on one player, or you can spread the money around. But you have to stay within the cap. I actually like that.

It’s big economics over there in a place like DR . They make our college basketball handlers look like great philanthropists

 

[willisneverrana43]

Yes.

One draft - same for all !

Just as they do in the NBA and NHL

Foreigners are selected in the same draft as North Americans !

The Mets have the most money now, so I’m not keen on shifting sources of players to the draft.

 

[FrankZ]

LOL - Pete won’t be enough anyway

 

[cubuffsdoug]

LOL - Pete won’t be enough anyway

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How much of his salary is deferred? What we found out is LA does have limits. They are robbing Peter to pay Paul. The Dodgers will have mortgaged everything in the future and will have issue staying afloat. For them to stay under the Cohen tax, they will have to sign players from the likes of KC or the A's because they will owe the entire current roster deferred payment. 😂 Bobby Bonilla will have the last laugh.

 

[rufeelinit]

Sometimes it seems like the Dodgers are playing chess and the rest of the teams are playing checkers.

 

[e5fdny]

Sometimes it seems like the Dodgers are playing chess and the rest of the teams are playing checkers.

The 3D kind like on the old Star Trek.

 

[Doctor Worm]

How much of his salary is deferred? What we found out is LA does have limits. They are robbing Peter to pay Paul. The Dodgers will have mortgaged everything in the future and will have issue staying afloat. For them to stay under the Cohen tax, they will have to sign players from the likes of KC or the A's because they will owe the entire current roster deferred payment. 😂 Bobby Bonilla will have the last laugh.

Here's what the Tanner Scott deal looks like:

4 years/ $72M, configured as follows:
$20M upfront signing bonus
$31M salary over the four years
$21M deferred.

If I read your post correctly, your understanding of the luxury tax is incorrect. Let's use Ohtani as an example. The Dodgers may be paying him later, but they're paying the luxury tax now.

The nominal value of his 10 year deferred annuity is $700M. That translates to a 10 year immediate annuity of about $460M. That's the luxury tax basis. The Dodgers paid tax on $46M last year for Ohtani's salary, and will do so for each of the next nine years.

By the time the Dodgers get around to paying Ohtani's deferred salary, the luxury tax on that salary will have been paid in full.

 

[hinson32]

I think this is why most people are pissed. The Dodgers are following the rules but if the Mets or Yankees did exactly the same thing- owners would have found a way to put an extra tax on deferments or something similar and make it retroactive.
When Cohen broke the bank a couple of years ago, he did it under the old tax rules and then they added the Cohen tax. It may not have been retroactive but in a way it was, because it carried forward.
What do you think happens next year if the Mets find a way to convince Vlad to take $5 mil a year and $30 mil deferred.
A new tax rules of deferred money will all of a sudden become in very serious talks.

What? Are you claiming MLB and the owners like the Dodgers, but hate the Mets and Yankees? That is crazy talk.

 

[Rhuarc]

Sometimes it seems like the Dodgers are playing chess and the rest of the teams are playing checkers.

If you have the resources and stomach to commit the money needed, people will want to play for you.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Sometimes it seems like the Dodgers are playing chess and the rest of the teams are playing checkers.

How is signing the most sought-after, expensive free agent relief pitcher to an expensive long term deal chess?

 

[yesrutgers01]

Here's what the Tanner Scott deal looks like:

4 years/ $72M, configured as follows:
$20M upfront signing bonus
$31M salary over the four years
$21M deferred.

If I read your post correctly, your understanding of the luxury tax is incorrect. Let's use Ohtani as an example. The Dodgers may be paying him later, but they're paying the luxury tax now.

The nominal value of his 10 year deferred annuity is $700M. That translates to a 10 year immediate annuity of about $460M. That's the luxury tax basis. The Dodgers paid tax on $46M last year for Ohtani's salary, and will do so for each of the next nine years.

By the time the Dodgers get around to paying Ohtani's deferred salary, the luxury tax on that salary will have been paid in full.

Im still confused on what you are saying on luxury tax.

If they are paying based on $46 mil salary per year- aren't they deferring the other tax on an additional $24 mil per year? And if that additional $24 mil per year would have been the difference between the Cohen tax or staying below it- aren't they finding a way around the top tax tier.

I'm not asking to question but asking because I don't know.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Im still confused on what you are saying on luxury tax.

If they are paying based on $46 mil salary per year- aren't they deferring the other tax on an additional $24 mil per year? And if that additional $24 mil per year would have been the difference between the Cohen tax or staying below it- aren't they finding a way around the top tax tier.

I'm not asking to question but asking because I don't know.

It's not as complicated as you're trying to make it for yourself. The future payments are discounted to present day value for salary tax purposes, sort of the opposite of a $46 investment today that becomes $70 in 10 years. So the Dodgers don't pay the tax on the $70 that they won't pay until 10 years from now, they pay the tax on the $46 that the future $70 payment is worth now.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Im still confused on what you are saying on luxury tax.

If they are paying based on $46 mil salary per year- aren't they deferring the other tax on an additional $24 mil per year? And if that additional $24 mil per year would have been the difference between the Cohen tax or staying below it- aren't they finding a way around the top tax tier.

I'm not asking to question but asking because I don't know.

Answer to first question is NO. The Dodgers luxury tax on the Ohtani contract is based on its PRESENT VALUE of $460M. Not the future value on $700M, which today is only (ONLY??!!) worth $460M.

Are they finding a way around the top tax tier? Not in my mind. They are playing luxury tax on the current fair value of the contract.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Bill Madden of NY Daily News suggests that Alonso may return to the Mets because of lack of other options;

* Blue Jays are focused on trying to extend Vlad.

* Red Sox have made Bregman the higher priority, and are willing to give Tristan Casas a full season shot at 1B.

In Madden's opinion, the only remaining competition for Alonso's services may be the Giants.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Santander to Jays. Which for our purposes raises questions:

* Does this take them out of the Alonso market?

* Does it also mean that they are not extending Vlad?

* If so, is the Vlad trading market open for business?

All will be revealed soon.

 

[RUhasarrived]

As soon as Trump finished taking the office,Let's Go Mets won the first race at Monticello at 25-1,the first race in the USA today.

The Mets have shown a huge difference in their record while a Republican is in office as opposed the Democrats,even winning it all in Nixon's first year.They've headed for the basement several times already after a switch back to the Democrats:Carter in '77,Clinton in '93,and Obama in '09.

 

[RUforJERSEY]

As soon as Trump finished taking the office,Let's Go Mets won the first race at Monticello at 25-1,the first race in the USA today.

The Mets have shown a huge difference in their record while a Republican is in office as opposed the Democrats,even winning it all in Nixon's first year.They've headed for the basement several times already after a switch back to the Democrats:Carter in '77,Clinton in '93,and Obama in '09.

Just about everything you post in here is a waste of bandwidth..

 

[Doctor Worm]

Santander to Jays. Which for our purposes raises questions:

* Does this take them out of the Alonso market?

* Does it also mean that they are not extending Vlad?

* If so, is the Vlad trading market open for business?

All will be revealed soon.

Santander contract: 5/$92.5M. AAV $18.5M. Opt out after year 3, which the Jays can buy out by adding a 6th year. Lower AAV than I would have thought. May not bode well for Pete.

But on the other hand, this takes a possible Mets Plan B off the table. May make Stearns more amenable to reopening discussions with Alonso.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Santander contract: 5/$92.5M. AAV $18.5M. Opt out after year 3, which the Jays can buy out by adding a 6th year. Lower AAV than I would have thought. May not bode well for Pete.

But on the other hand, this takes a possible Mets Plan B off the table. May make Stearns more amenable to reopening discussions with Alonso.

It also makes 3 years $90mm look too high.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Answer to first question is NO. The Dodgers luxury tax on the Ohtani contract is based on its PRESENT VALUE of $460M. Not the future value on $700M, which today is only (ONLY??!!) worth $460M.

Are they finding a way around the top tax tier? Not in my mind. They are playing luxury tax on the current fair value of the contract.

does the deferment of $24 mil per year never get taxed?

 

[yesrutgers01]

does the deferment of $24 mil per year never get taxed?

never mind- missed the prior response...which brings it back- where it makes no f-ing sense.

If $46 mil today equals $70 mil 10 years from now...

It makes no sense- make them pay based on $70 mil for each year unless the $46 mil goes for the entire length of the deferment... LA is still only paying on $460 mil and not $700 mil...

 

[Doctor Worm]

never mind- missed the prior response...which brings it back- where it makes no f-ing sense.

If $46 mil today equals $70 mil 10 years from now...

It makes no sense- make them pay based on $70 mil for each year unless the $46 mil goes for the entire length of the deferment... LA is still only paying on $460 mil and not $700 mil...

It makes complete sense. The luxury tax levy is based on what the financials would have been if there had been no deferrals. You can defer the salary, you can't defer the tax.

If you COULD defer the tax, folks would be bitchin' about the "loophole".

 

[yesrutgers01]

Santander contract: 5/$92.5M. AAV $18.5M. Opt out after year 3, which the Jays can buy out by adding a 6th year. Lower AAV than I would have thought. May not bode well for Pete.

But on the other hand, this takes a possible Mets Plan B off the table. May make Stearns more amenable to reopening discussions with Alonso.

It also makes 3 years $90mm look to high.

Santander's best season BY FAR- is only an average season for Pete...

Are we going out of our way to justify this?

Pete's career 162 game average is 94 runs, 27 D 43 HR 112 RBI 3 SB .249 .339 .854
Santander best season : 91 runs 25 D 44 HR 102 RBI 2 SB .235 .308 .776

Same Age

 

[zappaa]

It’s astounding to me Pete wouldn’t be excited as hell to play with Soto, excited at the prospects of winning the World Series with the Mets…And being paid an enormous sum to do so.
Tell you friggen agent I want to stay with the Mets, get it done

 

[willisneverrana43]

Santander's best season BY FAR- is only an average season for Pete...

Are we going out of our way to justify this?

Pete's career 162 game average is 94 runs, 27 D 43 HR 112 RBI 3 SB .249 .339 .854
Santander best season : 91 runs 25 D 44 HR 102 RBI 2 SB .235 .308 .776

Same Age

If you're right, Pete will get 3 years $90mm or better.

 

[zappaa]

Santander's best season BY FAR- is only an average season for Pete...

Are we going out of our way to justify this?

Pete's career 162 game average is 94 runs, 27 D 43 HR 112 RBI 3 SB .249 .339 .854
Santander best season : 91 runs 25 D 44 HR 102 RBI 2 SB .235 .308 .776

Same Age

Pete dwarfs Santander.
If Pete could somehow return to 260 or 270
He’s and automatic 40 130.

 

[FrankZ]

It’s astounding to me Pete wouldn’t be excited as hell to play with Soto, excited at the prospects of winning the World Series with the Mets…And being paid an enormous sum to do so.
Tell you friggen agent I want to stay with the Mets, get it done

Amen

 

[Doctor Worm]

It’s astounding to me Pete wouldn’t be excited as hell to play with Soto, excited at the prospects of winning the World Series with the Mets…And being paid an enormous sum to do so.
Tell you friggen agent I want to stay with the Mets, get it done

Thing is though, it's all a matter of expectations. I am certain that Alonso doesn't consider 3/$70M to be enormous. He likely considers it to be disappointingly low. Perhaps insultingly low.

Alonso (perhaps at Boras' direction, perhaps not) is clearly holding out for a better offer from somebody. Maybe he'll get it. It only takes one team.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

Both sides are being spiteful right now.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Alonso can order Boras to get it done. He hasn't.

Cohen could order Stearns to get it done. He hasn't.

Who, if anyone, blinks first?

 

[Doctor Worm]

In alumni news, Joey Lucchesi has taken his churve to the Giants, on a minor league deal. Alex ("don't call me Danny") Young is reunited with the Reds, also on a minor league deal.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Both sides are being spiteful right now.

I truly doubt spite has anything to do with it.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

I truly doubt spite has anything to do with it.

Spite might the wrong word. Both sides seem to be a little too prideful to give ground

 

[RU_03]

The Mets value Alonso at a particular AAV number and it appears they're ok to go a little bit higher to give him a hometown 'raise'. He wants to be paid at the highest AAV for a 1st baseman which was 27.5 million last year via Bryce Harper and then 27 million/year via Freddie Freeman. It's just not going to happen. Why should the Mets negotiate with themselves?

 

[yesrutgers01]

The Mets value Alonso at a particular AAV number and it appears they're ok to go a little bit higher to give him a hometown 'raise'. He wants to be paid at the highest AAV for a 1st baseman which was 27.5 million last year via Bryce Harper and then 27 million/year via Freddie Freeman. It's just not going to happen. Why should the Mets negotiate with themselves?

There is the other side of it- if I am boras- my counter is.,,”who are you replacing if him with? We know Vientos can be a 25-35 HR and maybe 100 RBi and if lucky, just a bad and not horrible 1B, that is Pete on his worst. But, what about 3B- not only is Vientos not as good as Pete, but you aren’t going to get a kid/Baty, Mauricio that can replace Vientos at 3B…
Over pay the dude $3 mil per year and get it done.

 

[willisneverrana43]

There is the other side of it- if I am boras- my counter is.,,”who are you replacing if him with? We know Vientos can be a 25-35 HR and maybe 100 RBi and if lucky, just a bad and not horrible 1B, that is Pete on his worst. But, what about 3B- not only is Vientos not as good as Pete, but you aren’t going to get a kid/Baty, Mauricio that can replace Vientos at 3B…
Over pay the dude $3 mil per year and get it done.

So if they offered 3 years $70mm, you want them to offer 3 years $79mm?

 

[RU_03]

There is the other side of it- if I am boras- my counter is.,,”who are you replacing if him with? We know Vientos can be a 25-35 HR and maybe 100 RBi and if lucky, just a bad and not horrible 1B, that is Pete on his worst. But, what about 3B- not only is Vientos not as good as Pete, but you aren’t going to get a kid/Baty, Mauricio that can replace Vientos at 3B…
Over pay the dude $3 mil per year and get it done.

Boras knows the answer to this question already since he represented him: Soto.

But either way, that's not a legit counter when he literally has no other suitors. The Mets will try the youth movement and then pivot around the trade deadline if needed. From what I read, the Mets are willing to overpay by 2/3 million per year that amounts to 24/25 million a year with opt outs, not 30+ a year.