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OT: NJ Devils 2023-2024 Thread

"Silayev is going to be drafted based on the concept that he can eat minutes and swallow the ice surface faster than almost any other prospect we've seen. He's that extremely rare combination of a prospect who possesses elite recovery rates while having the transitional defense projected to be able to shutdown the likes of the Connor McDavid's and the Nathan MacKinnon's of the hockey world. He projects to insulate a pairing better than any other prospect in this class, and that's why he's ranked as aggressively in our rankings as he is. The offensive touch that may or may not come is just an added bonus." - Hockey Prospect
 
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John Marino to Utah for pick 49 plus. Devils draft goalie Mikhail Yegorov. NHL Central Scouting ranks him #1 North American goalie, playing in the USHL, Omaha Lancers.
 
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Now just announce you’re returning to the old sweater.

The ones from the Cup years.

Keep your retro/reverses, black and the original red and green. But make the above the primary.
 
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Time will tell, but I love this new emphasis on size and strength for the Devils. I am surprised by the second goalie drafted. The organization must feel between injuries and subpar play they need a big upgrade at goalie.
 
You get what you deserve sometimes! While I would have dreamed about using Schmid and Holtz in a package for a certain Brady, at least Cotter should offer some sandpaper.

I can't be surprised, as this is what happens when you publically badmouth a prospect in the media because you are pissed you didn't go for another player (Askorov).
 
TM94goRU said:
Time will tell, but I love this new emphasis on size and strength for the Devils. I am surprised by the second goalie drafted. The organization must feel between injuries and subpar play they need a big upgrade at goalie.
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Completely agree. They took desperately needed size at every pick. Second goalie pick was odd. They traded up to get the kid they wanted, why take a second guy?
 
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I would have liked one more year to give Holtzy a chance but he’s a one dimensional player that hasn’t developed . Time to move on and they added a bottom six player that hits and fills an opening plus a pick.
 
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czxqa said:
Completely agree. They took desperately needed size at every pick. Second goalie pick was odd. They traded up to get the kid they wanted, why take a second guy?
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Yeah, just look at the underwhelming return of the trade, it is Fitz's fault. Think about all ( cash strapped ) Vegas has, and suck on this, for the goalie who beat the NYR, before getting jerked around by goalie coach Rogulski and a former 7th overall pick we get a 4th-line Center and a 3rd Round Pick.

Well time for me to piss off people here again and say this-

Once again Tom Fitzgerald has committed an act that would get him canned if Harris and Blitzer cared about winning! I don't know what's worse, a bottom center or only a 3rd Round Pick. Even if Cotter blossoms we should have gotten MORE!

In closing Rempe is our Tom Wilson moment. While I think size and grit should have been our focus all along, this past 48 hours proves 1 4th liner changed our whole core beliefs. Now Daws is probably the next trade piece, given he already has a bad hip. Just forecasting here, but man it sucks to have a poorly spoken GM that impetuously craps on what was a prized prospect!
 
Fitz tried to trade Holtz twice and both times he didn't move the meter, Holtz's value was at a low, no one really wanted him in trades for top players.

Liked our first two picks and some of the beef we took (minus Max Graham, awful pick) but didn't care wasting a pick on a second goalie.
 
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You can't come close to even getting fair market value when you publically crap on a player.

Just like if teams know a player wants out, you get a laughable return. Just think back to a disgruntled Johnny Mac only fetching Doug Bodger in a trade. Same principles apply!
 
mikemarc1 said:
Terrible trade. But in Fitz we trust I guess…
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I look at it as Fitzgerald viewing it as addition by subtraction. If all players involved hit their ceiling the devils lose this trade by a mile... but clearly the devils wanted Holtz gone and likely view daws as superior to schmid.

This is just cutting your losses
 
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You are supposed to buy low, trade high. Fitz has no excuses here to make. It was him ( going by T.Greene demanding autonomy) who allowed Holtz to be the "only" Devil to lose ice time for making a mistake. Even more damning it was GM Lipschitz who publicly crap on him to the media.

No excuses wait. Give Coach Keefe and a new system time to work. Stop blaming Holtz only. Look at how many mistakes others like Bahl, Luke Hughes, and Nemec made, with no penalty. If he rebounded with the ice time he should get guess what, you will get a much BETTER return at the trade deadline.

This is inexcusable
 
Last venting post, unless he trades someone like Jack for Necas, now sadly possible with GM Lipschitz.

I had considered the NYR trade of Pavel Buchnevich for Sammy Blais the worst trade in recent hockey history. At least until today. Simply put both of Fitzgerald's trades at least compare. I think the Holtz plus Schmid trade is the new worse one!
 
TM94goRU said:
Cotter not even on Vegas' playoff roster.
One or the other former Devil would have been too much!
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He was squeezed out after the trades for Hetl and Mantha, as well as the return of various injured guys.

Cotter is also a useful player making league minimum for the next 2 years.
 
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czxqa said:
Completely agree. They took desperately needed size at every pick. Second goalie pick was odd. They traded up to get the kid they wanted, why take a second guy?
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As they said post draft, goalies are tough to predict so bringing in numbers increases your odds of hitting.

They also probably really liked the 2nd guy.
 
RU-05 said:
He was squeezed out after the trades for Hetl and Mantha, as well as the return of various injured guys.

Cotter is also a useful player making league minimum for the next 2 years.
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My problem is NOT with Cotter, I like him a lot. My problem is with our GM, I don't even want to name him. You are correct, so now think of Vegas cap problems as WELL. It makes it WORSE, cap problems and squeezed out. That calls for less of a return from us. I don't buy this was near market value for just Holtz. Never mind adding Schmid even as a RFA.


As I said this trade day ruined a good potentially GREAT draft. Every road leads to our GM's blame. You NEVER bad mouth an asset, also you should NEVER trade so low. Let the new regime straighten him out.
 
TM94goRU said:
My problem is NOT with Cotter, I like him a lot. My problem is with our GM, I don't even want to name him. You are correct, so now think of Vegas cap problems as WELL. It makes it WORSE, cap problems and squeezed out. That calls for less of a return from us. I don't buy this was near market value for just Holtz. Never mind adding Schmid even as a RFA.


As I said this trade day ruined a good potentially GREAT draft. Every road leads to our GM's blame. You NEVER bad mouth an asset, also you should NEVER trade so low. Let the new regime straighten him out.
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We've made multiple trades the past couple years in which Holtz could have gone the other way, but didn't, I thought that maybe, despite the usage and then later the criticism, the Devils really wanted to develop Holtz, but now that he is traded for so little, it really appears that there just was not much interest in him around the league.

As per Vegas's cap problems, I don't see how that makes them want to trade a useful player on a minimum contract. There is some value in that cheap of a contract.
 
I hate that Holtz had such little value around the league, from what I have read Holtz was shopped to more than two teams. San Jose and Calgary both said no thank you. ESPN article used the term that Holtz was a "throw in" for this trade. Did Fitz kill his value? Maybe, but I am sure Keefe would have had a say if he thought he could do something with him. In the end, I kind of gave up on Holtz being special once the Swedish team passed on him for an AHL player for worlds. We can't blame the system, coach, or GM for that one.
 
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RU-05 said:
We've made multiple trades the past couple years in which Holtz could have gone the other way, but didn't, I thought that maybe, despite the usage and then later the criticism, the Devils really wanted to develop Holtz, but now that he is traded for so little, it really appears that there just was not much interest in him around the league.

As per Vegas's cap problems, I don't see how that makes them want to trade a useful player on a minimum contract. There is some value in that cheap of a contract.
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Just watch Holtz will become a 30 goal scorer there. Not to mention Schmid is still young, and has already proven to be a tougher playoff goalie than Saros. To only get a bottom 6 forward and a late 3rd round pick is a crime.

Brought to us by Tom Fitzgerald. He and the analytics department are to blame if Holtz's value is this low.

I don't believe for 1 second that Holtz's value is this low BTW. No this is post fleecing spin clubs do when most of their fan base is furious. Edmonton tried it when they gave Taylor Hall to us for Larson 1 for 1. Please ask yourself, Vegas wanted Schmid for their 1B/backup goalie, they went for him right after fulfilling a trade request for now former backup. this is proof, that there was more value and our GM let us get fleeced!

While Keefe has a voice sadly the eggheads in the analytics department have way too much power. When a deer in the headlights GM named Fitzgerald, mention that Travis Greene would not take the job unless he was given autonomy, he told everyone. Ruff was a puppet! NOW this is all on TF and here is why, he let Holtz get scapegoated. He let Holtz be the only Devil to lose time for making a mistake. No one else was ever singled out. No not either Hughes Brother, who at times had high turnout rates. Not Nemec who made plenty of errors as young guys do. No one, Ruff's boy from the NYR B. Smith never lost ice time for ALL his mistakes.

No only Alex Holtz! Then the unthinkable, he publically bad mouths him to the media. If Fitz had a similar job in a publically traded company and the stocks value plummeted like they say, Holtz value plummeted, Fitz would be fired immediately! GM's are supposed to buy low but trade high. Ours did this ass backwards. As such for all the above reasons Tom Fitzgerald must shoulder the blame here.
 
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PiscRuFan said:
I hate that Holtz had such little value around the league, from what I have read Holtz was shopped to more than two teams. San Jose and Calgary both said no thank you. ESPN article used the term that Holtz was a "throw in" for this trade. Did Fitz kill his value? Maybe, but I am sure Keefe would have had a say if he thought he could do something with him. In the end, I kind of gave up on Holtz being special once the Swedish team passed on him for an AHL player for worlds. We can't blame the system, coach, or GM for that one.
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That is what happens when a player is misused and publically ridiculed by the GM! It is foolish to not see the cause and effect here. Ruff makes Holtz a scapegoat, cutting his ice time for any mistake. Fine if he was consistent and did the same to the other young players. He NEVER did. Then as GM publically craps on this prospect at a news conference. Fitzgerald job there is to publically build up the asset. By destroying him publically, he destroyed his value.

That said 22 year old picked 7th overall, considered to have that drafts top shot, you must get MORE. His stats were not bad for his ice time. With the public bashing if this was the best you could do, keep him as I think he would have done better in the new system! Trade a player high not low, and beware of GM spin.

In a similar position in a publically traded company where bad mouthing the company tanked the stock, if spin is true, that Manager would get canned immediately. For trading 2 young players with NHL experience and each having more upside than Cotter ( who I like, this is NOT on him), let's just say he is lucky our owners don't care about winning!
 
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Schmid is what #4 or 5 on the goalie depth chart going into this season . Daws and Poulter are clearly ahead of him after Schmids performance last year. Read Vegas will be sending him down bc he still has waiver exempt status for one more season.


Markstrom
Allen
Daws
Poulter
Schmid
 
mikemarc1 said:
Terrible trade. But in Fitz we trust I guess…
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Remember when Fitz traded Zacha for Haula, majority of the reaction was negative just like with this trade, but in hindsight the Zacha/Haula trade is one we would make every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

It wouldn't surprise me if mid-season Cotter becomes a fan favorite.
 
TM94goRU said:
Just watch Holtz will become a 30 goal scorer there. Not to mention Schmid is still young, and has already proven to be a tougher playoff goalie than Saros. To only get a bottom 6 forward and a late 3rd round pick is a crime.

Brought to us by Tom Fitzgerald. He and the analytics department are to blame if Holtz's value is this low.

I don't believe for 1 second that Holtz's value is this low BTW. No this is post fleecing spin clubs do when most of their fan base is furious. Edmonton tried it when they gave Taylor Hall to us for Larson 1 for 1. Please ask yourself, Vegas wanted Schmid for their 1B/backup goalie, they went for him right after fulfilling a trade request for now former backup. this is proof, that there was more value and our GM let us get fleeced!

While Keefe has a voice sadly the eggheads in the analytics department have way too much power. When a deer in the headlights GM named Fitzgerald, mention that Travis Greene would not take the job unless he was given autonomy, he told everyone. Ruff was a puppet! NOW this is all on TF and here is why, he let Holtz get scapegoated. He let Holtz be the only Devil to lose time for making a mistake. No one else was ever singled out. No not either Hughes Brother, who at times had high turnout rates. Not Nemec who made plenty of errors as young guys do. No one, Ruff's boy from the NYR B. Smith never lost ice time for ALL his mistakes.

No only Alex Holtz! Then the unthinkable, he publically bad mouths him to the media. If Fitz had a similar job in a publically traded company and the stocks value plummeted like they say, Holtz value plummeted, Fitz would be fired immediately! GM's are supposed to buy low but trade high. Ours did this ass backwards. As such for all the above reasons Tom Fitzgerald must shoulder the blame here.
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Holtz may score 30, but much like Shara, that doesn't make him a good player. I mean you're as loud as anyone about the Devils having too many soft players, and he was the softest of the group by far. Add to that, he, unlike the other "soft" players, is a poor skater.

As per Greene not taking the job unless he was given autonomy, but Keefe did? Sorry that doesn't add up. But whatever the reason for Greene not taking the job, or more likely the Devils not offering it, I say good, he stinks.

Devils cut their losses on a player they didn't want in their lineup because he doesn't play the way the team wants to play. If he finds his footing out in Vegas, good for him, but I'm not going to sweat it, same with Marino, its about what the Devils do next year, and the years beyond. If the Devils are good going fwd under Fitz, can make long playoff runs, and at some point win a cup, then Holtz can score 40 and I wouldn't critique Fitz's handling of Holtz. Well maybe a little.
 
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TM94goRU said:
You are supposed to buy low, trade high. Fitz has no excuses here to make. It was him ( going by T.Greene demanding autonomy) who allowed Holtz to be the "only" Devil to lose ice time for making a mistake. Even more damning it was GM Lipschitz who publicly crap on him to the media.

No excuses wait. Give Coach Keefe and a new system time to work. Stop blaming Holtz only. Look at how many mistakes others like Bahl, Luke Hughes, and Nemec made, with no penalty. If he rebounded with the ice time he should get guess what, you will get a much BETTER return at the trade deadline.

This is inexcusable
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You are pinning Holtz's lack of playing time on making mistakes, that was not the issue, or at least not the main issue. The main issue was lack of compete. He also didn't skate well, or think the game well, and he also made those mistakes that yes, just about every player at some point makes.
 
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RU-05 said:
Holtz may score 30, but much like Shara, that doesn't make him a good player. I mean you're as loud as anyone about the Devils having too many soft players, and he was the softest of the group by far. Add to that, he, unlike the other "soft" players, is a poor skater.

As per Greene not taking the job unless he was given autonomy, but Keefe did? Sorry that doesn't add up. But whatever the reason for Greene not taking the job, or more likely the Devils not offering it, I say good, he stinks.

Devils cut their losses on a player they didn't want in their lineup because he doesn't play the way the team wants to play. If he finds his footing out in Vegas, good for him, but I'm not going to sweat it, same with Marino, its about what the Devils do next year, and the years beyond. If the Devils are good going fwd under Fitz, can make long playoff runs, and at some point win a cup, then Holtz can score 40 and I wouldn't critique Fitz's handling of Holtz. Well maybe a little.
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You should NEVER give away that amount of potential this early. You are right, we need hitters, however if not for this massive overpay, we could have signed this guy cheaply as a FA. Or if not trade a draft pick. This is horrible asset management!!!
 
RU-05 said:
You are pinning Holtz's lack of playing time on making mistakes, that was not the issue, or at least not the main issue. The main issue was lack of compete. He also didn't skate well, or think the game well, and he also made those mistakes that yes, just about every player at some point makes.
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it so easy to out the Fitzgerald fan club. Yesterday was NOT a good day.
 
The "Fitz Fan Club" will end up being able to retire early with their stock while you're working an extra job watching Tedenby 2.0 play for Djurgardens regretting being so emotional
 
Amongst NJ fwd's Holtz was dead last in penalties drawn rate last year.

Also dead last in takeaways/60. Just about a 2-1 giveaway-takeaway ratio.

2nd to last in blocked shots/60. (toffoli was worse)
 
Vs Cotter


2nd on Vegas in hit rate at 13+/60. Kolesar led the team at 19+. Team scorer needs to be taken into account, but Max Wilman led NJ fwd's last year at 10 per 60. Bastian was at 9 per 60.

Pretty low penalty rate at .78, which would land him 6th on the Devils between Timo and Palat. Drew .65 so a net negative this past season, but he was a solid net positive the year prior at .44 to .95.

2-1 takeaway-giveaway ratio.

Big guy, plays fast, hits.

Yet the guys who have been whining about how soft we were last year are all upset we traded our softest player for a guy who looks like he will step in and be our toughest.
 
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