OT: No one has answered my baseball rules question?

[zappaa]

Bottom of the 9th tie game, man on 3rd.
Hitter rips line drive thru infielders, guy from 3rd scores easy…game over, walk off single.
But the batter in his exuberance never comes close to touching first…is he awarded a hit?
Run scores either way, the game is over.

 

[GilliganIsland]

How many outs? Either way I say game NOT over but with two outs obviously not

 

[RUfanSinceAnderson]

Bottom of the 9th tie game, man on 3rd.
Hitter rips line drive thru infielders, guy from 3rd scores easy…game over, walk off single.
But the batter in his exuberance never comes close to touching first…is he awarded a hit?
Run scores either way, the game is over.

I would say yes. A hit.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

This must happen fairly frequently. I say a hit. As long as the runner reaches home before the fielder (outfielder) can throw the ball to first base.

 

[DJ Spanky]

The answer is 92.

 

[KeithK7624]

If there’s two outs the games goes to the next inning and it’s still a tie.

Less than two outs, I’m 80% positive here. it’s ruled a hit. However the opposing team can appeal and the runner called out at first as he never reached base safely and abandoned the attempt to advance. Just as with a walk if the winning run is forced in.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I always thought no hit. Gets the RBI but similar to a fielders choice

 

[fsg2]

He should be.

So long as the run scores, at least he won't be one of those fools who loses the touchdown by lazily dropping it at the one.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

The batter is credited with a single if (and only if) he runs out the hit and touches first base:

2021 RULEBOOK

... when a batter ends a game with a safe hit that drives in as many runs as are necessary to put his team in the lead, the Official Scorer shall credit such batter with only as many bases on his hit as are advanced by the runner who scores the winning run, and then only if the batter runs out his hit for as many bases as are advanced by the runner who scores the winning run.

The Official Scorer shall credit the batter with a base touched in the natural course of play, even if the winning run has scored moments before on the same play. For example, the score is tied in the bottom of the ninth inning with a runner on second base and the batter hits a ball to the outfield that falls for a base hit. The runner scores after the batter has touched first base and continued on to second base but shortly before the batter-runner reaches second base. If the batter-runner reaches second base, the Official Scorer shall credit the batter with a two-base hit.

 

[Doctor Worm]

If there’s two outs the games goes to the next inning and it’s still a tie.

Less than two outs, I’m 80% positive here. it’s ruled a hit. However the opposing team can appeal and the runner called out at first as he never reached base safely and abandoned the attempt to advance. Just as with a walk if the winning run is forced in.

That only applies if you PASS the base without touching it. If you abandon the play, the ump will call you out. You see this occasionally when on a third strike when the catcher misses the ball, but the batter doesn't realize it and returns to the dugout. The catcher scrambles to get the ball. The ump says don't bother and makes the out call.

 

[e5fdny]

Didn’t something similar happen to Robin Ventura awhile back?

Hits a walk off (grand slam?) HR but only got credit for a 2B since his teammates mobbed him and he never made it all the way around the bases. I believe the Mets only needed a run or two to win.

 

[Plum Street]

Bottom of the 9th tie game, man on 3rd.
Hitter rips line drive thru infielders, guy from 3rd scores easy…game over, walk off single.
But the batter in his exuberance never comes close to touching first…is he awarded a hit?
Run scores either way, the game is over.

How many outs are there ? If it’s two outs game is not over. Less than two outs game is over

 

[Phi_1055]

Didn’t something similar happen to Robin Ventura awhile back?

Hits a walk off (grand slam?) HR but only got credit for a 2B since his teammates mobbed him and he never made it all the way around the bases. I believe the Mets only needed a run or two to win.

I was at that game with my family! He had rounded 1B and his teammates mobbed him before he got to 2B. He got credit for a single. The ”grand slam single”.

 

[zappaa]

If there’s two outs the games goes to the next inning and it’s still a tie.

Less than two outs, I’m 80% positive here. it’s ruled a hit. However the opposing team can appeal and the runner called out at first as he never reached base safely and abandoned the attempt to advance. Just as with a walk if the winning run is forced in.

I should have said no outs in my OP.
A hit is far different from a walk.
The run scores without question, no appeal can change the fact the winning run has crossed the plate.
On a walk you must touch first I believe.
The reason I ask the question is both my brothers claim my dad drove in the winning run from 3rd with less than two outs and never bothered to touch first base.
What we don’t know is if the official scorer credited him with a base hit?

 

[wheezer]

In theory, if the runner never runs to first base he should not be given a hit, but you should have a better understanding than i

 

[Rutgers1976]

I'd say that if there was no appeal, the scorer would have credited the hit. Wouldn't there be a box score from the game in question? Aren't there websites with the details of games beyond the box score going way back?

 

[zappaa]

In theory, if the runner never runs to first base he should not be given a hit, but you should have a better understanding than i

I don’t, in the situation I describe, the batter not touching 1st is completely irrelevant in regard to the outcome of the game.
I’m not sure if the official scorers are even paying attention….the umpires could care less, game is over

 

[zappaa]

I'd say that if there was no appeal, the scorer would have credited the hit. Wouldn't there be a box score from the game in question? Aren't there websites with the details of games beyond the box score going way back?

Why would you appeal, doesn’t change the outcome with no outs.
My brothers only remember it happening according to them, they have no recollection of the specific game they claimed to have seen it in

 

[Rutgers1976]

Can't say if this was the occasion, but I chanced upon a game July 2, 1954. First game of doubleheader. Yogi singled in the tying run in bottom of 9th with 2 outs then the winning run in bottom of 11th. vs. the then Washington Senators, also with 2 outs. Both oppos to LF. Those were his only 2 hits of the game. I'm sure that wasn't the only walk off single in his career and the scenario doesn't fit the 0 outs you described.

 

[RUScrew85]

I was at that game with my family! He had rounded 1B and his teammates mobbed him before he got to 2B. He got credit for a single. The ”grand slam single”.

IIRC that's happened before too.

 

[RUScrew85]

Why would you appeal, doesn’t change the outcome with no outs.
My brothers only remember it happening according to them, they have no recollection of the specific game they claimed to have seen it in

How is it a single if you can retrieve the ball and throw him out at first? Never mind. I'm with Gilligan up there. If you can throw him out at first with two outs the game goes on the runs don't count - less than two outs I always figured you got a single for any walk off hit that is not a HR.

With less than two outs the ability to throw him out at first doesn't matter of course but I'd say if the D retrieves the ball and throws it to first while the offense is dogpiling in the first base line preventing the batter from reaching first before the ball he gets there - a ground out and a RBI.

But yeah the D never retrieves the ball in that situation.

At least that's how it would go if I were scoring it.

 

[Doctor Worm]

I'd say that if there was no appeal, the scorer would have credited the hit. Wouldn't there be a box score from the game in question? Aren't there websites with the details of games beyond the box score going way back?

Appeal would not apply in this instance. It only applies if you pass a base without touching it. Or leave early on a sac fly. In this case the batter should be ruled out for abandoning the play. It would of course have no impact on the outcome.

 

[RUScrew85]

I should have said no outs in my OP.
A hit is far different from a walk.
The run scores without question, no appeal can change the fact the winning run has crossed the plate.
On a walk you must touch first I believe.
The reason I ask the question is both my brothers claim my dad drove in the winning run from 3rd with less than two outs and never bothered to touch first base.
What we don’t know is if the official scorer credited him with a base hit?

I'm going to guess that Baseball Reference, the Yankees or MLB has the box score somewhere. I gotta figure you have the juice to have someone dig it up for you if it's not online considering who you are and that the request is about Yogi Berra.

ETA: Actually it looks like Baseball Reference has them online, but you have to search by date.

June 7, 1945

ETA2: Holy crap - it looks like there is play by play at the bottom of the page after you select a game. At least for the day and game I picked.

ETA3: or follow the link to retrosheet.org

ETA4: Well the Berra boys have enough of a start to waste an entire evening drinking beer and researching the Yogi hit question. Let us know if you find it or if a fistfight breaks out. LOL

 

[greenknight]

I would say no hit more like FC w/o the FC

 

[80RU]

I know your question was refined to clarify that it was a less than two out situation and went to the official scoring as a hit only, but when I first read it my mind went back to the story linked below. BTW, my guess would be that it would not be a hit.

Merkle’s Bonehead Play

Merkle’s Bonehead Play applies to baseball rule four – specifically 4.09. It has to do with a batted ball and touching bases by every runner to end a game with the sacks full. HANK O'DAY HANK O’DAY UMPIRE & MANAGER “On a batted ball a run cannot score if all runners do not touch...

thebaseballumpire.com

 

[beaced]

He should be.

So long as the run scores, at least he won't be one of those fools who loses the touchdown by lazily dropping it at the one.

OR spiking the ball on a fourth down.

 

[75liteweight]

From my understanding of the rules it should not be ruled a hit. But no clue what it was actually ruled.

 

[zappaa]

How is it a single if you can retrieve the ball and throw him out at first? Never mind. I'm with Gilligan up there. If you can throw him out at first with two outs the game goes on the runs don't count - less than two outs I always figured you got a single for any walk off hit that is not a HR.

With less than two outs the ability to throw him out at first doesn't matter of course but I'd say if the D retrieves the ball and throws it to first while the offense is dogpiling in the first base line preventing the batter from reaching first before the ball he gets there - a ground out and a RBI.

But yeah the D never retrieves the ball in that situation.

At least that's how it would go if I were scoring it.

Pretty much exactly.
I’ve been the shortstop for multiple walk off clean base hits on the road with less than two outs and a man on 3rd.
We never played the ball, and the umpires are running off the field.
I’ve never seen a clean base hit played in that situation.
There’s absolutely zero reason to make a play on the hitter

 

[rubaseball78]

Bottom of the 9th tie game, man on 3rd.
Hitter rips line drive thru infielders, guy from 3rd scores easy…game over, walk off single.
But the batter in his exuberance never comes close to touching first…is he awarded a hit?
Run scores either way, the game is over.

I would say no. He gave himself up. I would also think with 2 outs run wouldn’t count. Less than 2 outs run counts.

 

[Knight Shift]

The answer is 92.

No, it's Selma Hayek in kayak.

 

[JMORC2003]

I always thought no hit. Gets the RBI but similar to a fielders choice

This is my vote

 

[RUtix4me]

I'm going to guess that Baseball Reference, the Yankees or MLB has the box score somewhere. I gotta figure you have the juice to have someone dig it up for you if it's not online considering who you are and that the request is about Yogi Berra.

ETA: Actually it looks like Baseball Reference has them online, but you have to search by date.

June 7, 1945

ETA2: Holy crap - it looks like there is play by play at the bottom of the page after you select a game. At least for the day and game I picked.

ETA3: or follow the link to retrosheet.org

ETA4: Well the Berra boys have enough of a start to waste an entire evening drinking beer and researching the Yogi hit question. Let us know if you find it or if a fistfight breaks out. LOL

Why would we do that when we can solve here? Come’on man this is were you go for second opinions on medical, financial, spiritual, personal advice, and sometime talk sports!

 

[RUScrew85]

Pretty much exactly.
I’ve been the shortstop for multiple walk off clean base hits on the road with less than two outs and a man on 3rd.
We never played the ball, and the umpires are running off the field.
I’ve never seen a clean base hit played in that situation.
There’s absolutely zero reason to make a play on the hitter

Anytime @zappaa tells you got it exactly on a baseball question, you're having a good day.

Time to put on my varsity baseball jacket for a few minutes.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Pretty much exactly.
I’ve been the shortstop for multiple walk off clean base hits on the road with less than two outs and a man on 3rd.
We never played the ball, and the umpires are running off the field.
I’ve never seen a clean base hit played in that situation.
There’s absolutely zero reason to make a play on the hitter

I have seen it once, years ago. Will never forget.

Cincinnati Reds were playing somebody. Tie score. Bottom of ninth, bases loaded, one out. Reds outfield is of course playing shallow in that situation. Batter lines a clean base hit to center. Game over, right? Not so fast my friend.

A young CF named Eric Davis charges the ball and fields it cleanly. He is about to throw to second - he wants to turn the double play to end the inning! But no one is covering. But he doesn't give up. He sprints to second and gets there before the runner on first does (who is obviously not expecting a play). Davis steps on second for the force. Two out. He has his arm cocked ready to throw to first to complete the double play. However, the batter was running hard to first, and so he has no play, and the game is over.

I said to myself, THAT guy's a ballplayer! I got that one right.

 

[RU85inFla]

Robin Ventura says it’s not a single.

 

[Barnaby&Neill]

Didn’t this sort of happen with Baez when he started that rundown between first base and home with two outs? Wasn’t a walk off, but with two outs it seems the guy needs to touch first.

During the rundown the umpire signaled the runner that crossed the plate safe, but folks later said that was the wrong call because Baez still could have been forced out at first (ultimately the pirates threw the ball away anyways and he was safe at first).

One of the strangest plays I’ve ever seen. Not a lot of baseball IQ on the field for the Pirates that afternoon.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Curious- now that it has me thinking. What happens in the 2nd inning or any none walkoff inning, where a runner on 3rd crosses home before the hitter is actually thrown out at first base for the 3rd out. I had always thought a run didn't count if the 3rd out is at first or a force, even if the runner scores before that out is made. But if the 3rd out is a tag and not a force play and the runner scores first, it was a run.

 

[zappaa]

Curious- now that it has me thinking. What happens in the 2nd inning or any none walkoff inning, where a runner on 3rd crosses home before the hitter is actually thrown out at first base for the 3rd out. I had always thought a run didn't count if the 3rd out is at first or a force, even if the runner scores before that out is made. But if the 3rd out is a tag and not a force play and the runner scores first, it was a run.

Of course Yes, any force play 3rd out nullifies the run, once you get into a tag play situation the and the run scores first it counts

 

[RutgersDom]

I should have said no outs in my OP.
A hit is far different from a walk.
The run scores without question, no appeal can change the fact the winning run has crossed the plate.
On a walk you must touch first I believe.
The reason I ask the question is both my brothers claim my dad drove in the winning run from 3rd with less than two outs and never bothered to touch first base.
What we don’t know is if the official scorer credited him with a base hit?

Interesting...Seems to me he probably should not have been credited with a hit since he didn't officially touch first. Which I guess is fair.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Of course Yes, any force play 3rd out nullifies the run, once you get into a tag play situation the and the run scores first it counts

so, on the initial OP question, if the hitter decides not to touch first because the walkoff run already scored..if the defending team decided to play it out and just threw it to 1B, even if the other team is celebrating the win...the game would not be over and on to the next inning.