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OT: Official 2022 NY Mets Season And Post Season Thread

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yesrutgers01 said:
It’s funny- everyone talking about getting rid of the shift until our Met’s started to hit against it instead of a launch angle and now everyone is starting to do it again.
I always go back to when they asked Piazza how he would do against the shift and he told them he would hit .400
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No disrespect to the great Mike Piazza, but talk is cheap after you've retired. Whether he could have made good on that boast, we will never know.

But I will play along. Let's go back to Piazza's best year in 1997 with LA. 40/124/.362.
Slugging % .638. OPS 1.070.

Let's say LA's opponents regularly put on this shift against him. Would he have selfishly hurt his team by trying to hit .400? Maybe he could have, but I don't think he would have. Why not? Sure, he'd have gotten more hits, but at the cost of fewer 2B's, HR's, and RBI. And in all likelihood, fewer wins.

In other words, if Piazza had tried to go the other way to beat the shift, he would have been doing exactly what the opposition wanted him to do. Which is why he wouldn't have done it.

That said, not everyone is Mike Piazza. When teams shift against guys like Jeff McNeil and Luis Guillorme, sure they should try to go the other way.
 
zappaa said:
I don’t like it or dislike it.
You set up your defense based on how you pitch a guy and play where the chart says he hits it.
What’s the big deal?
It’s not rocket science to figure out the guys who hit to all fields and bunt well are really tough to defend.
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McNeil hits to all fields, but teams still play the shift against him most of the time. With all their brains, the analytics guys believe the odds favor the team to play the shift against McNeil.

I watched an Arizona/Philly game, and the announcer said the shift (analytics) is a step behind real-time adjustments by hitters. If you recall, last year with the Mets, the hitters struggled because it was paralysis by analysis. This year, the approach is "see the ball, hit the ball." The Mets have sacrificed launch angle, pulling the pitch for contact and hitting away from the defender.
 
cubuffsdoug said:
IMO it serves two purposes.
1) get the eggheads (analytics) out of the game. These guys never played a sport in their life and now are telling every athlete how to play the game.
2) the game was fine for 100+ years. A hit to short rightfield was good, but now it's an automatic out. Why now do you take away from the skill and grace of the game?
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There is a third reason for banning the shift. It removes the temptation for guys to change their natural game by intentionally going the other way, which robs them of their power. Which means fewer HR's. Which MLB views as no bueno. Chicks dig the long ball. Dudes do too.
 
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Doctor Worm said:
No disrespect to the great Mike Piazza, but talk is cheap after you've retired. Whether he could have made good on that boast, we will never know.

But I will play along. Let's go back to Piazza's best year in 1997 with LA. 40/124/.362.
Slugging % .638. OPS 1.070.

Let's say LA's opponents regularly put on this shift against him. Would he have selfishly hurt his team by trying to hit .400? Maybe he could have, but I don't think he would have. Why not? Sure, he'd have gotten more hits, but at the cost of fewer 2B's, HR's, and RBI. And in all likelihood, fewer wins.

In other words, if Piazza had tried to go the other way to beat the shift, he would have been doing exactly what the opposition wanted him to do. Which is why he wouldn't have done it.

That said, not everyone is Mike Piazza. When teams shift against guys like Jeff McNeil and Luis Guillorme, sure they should try to go the other way.
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You can't take what he said to be a fact but he was trying to make a point. And you also know as well as I do, Mike was never a true pull hitter and had amazing power the other way. If they tried to shift on him- he wasn't talking about bunting but he would certainly go the other way, most likely with a 110 MPH off his bat.
 
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Zak57 said:
Not so sure about what? Baty and Vientos profile as middle of the order bats. Will they hit their potential? Who knows but everything they've shown so far makes them appear to be big bats.
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Yes, I'm not so sure about Baty and Vientos. Baty is 22, in AA, hitting .270, good but not great power, and another guy whose ultimate positoin is unclear. Vientos is the same age, but at least has progressed to AAA, has a similar average in his minor league career, is hitting only .248 at the moment, is also looking for a permanent position, and may have a little more power than Baty.

So you want them in the middle of a major league order. They'll certainly make the majors. They could even be a regular 3-6 hitter for some teams, but not a contender. Not unless they show more.
 
Doctor Worm said:
No disrespect to the great Mike Piazza, but talk is cheap after you've retired. Whether he could have made good on that boast, we will never know.

But I will play along. Let's go back to Piazza's best year in 1997 with LA. 40/124/.362.
Slugging % .638. OPS 1.070.

Let's say LA's opponents regularly put on this shift against him. Would he have selfishly hurt his team by trying to hit .400? Maybe he could have, but I don't think he would have. Why not? Sure, he'd have gotten more hits, but at the cost of fewer 2B's, HR's, and RBI. And in all likelihood, fewer wins.

In other words, if Piazza had tried to go the other way to beat the shift, he would have been doing exactly what the opposition wanted him to do. Which is why he wouldn't have done it.

That said, not everyone is Mike Piazza. When teams shift against guys like Jeff McNeil and Luis Guillorme, sure they should try to go the other way.
Click to expand...
Guys like piazza and alonso can hit with power to right field.
 
willisneverrana43 said:
Yes, I'm not so sure about Baty and Vientos. Baty is 22, in AA, hitting .270, good but not great power, and another guy whose ultimate positoin is unclear. Vientos is the same age, but at least has progressed to AAA, has a similar average in his minor league career, is hitting only .248 at the moment, is also looking for a permanent position, and may have a little more power than Baty.

So you want them in the middle of a major league order. They'll certainly make the majors. They could even be a regular 3-6 hitter for some teams, but not a contender. Not unless they show more.
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You're not using any projection at all. They are power hitters not average guys. To say Baty and to a lesser extent Vientos cant be middle of the lineup hitters goes against what all the experts think. Vientos has been on fire the last month. He's always a slow starter at a new level. Baty started hot, cooled down big time, got hurt, and is getting hot again.
 
Zak57 said:
. . . To say Baty and to a lesser extent Vientos cant be middle of the lineup hitters goes against what all the experts think. Vientos has been on fire the last month. He's always a slow starter at a new level. Baty started hot, cooled down big time, got hurt, and is getting hot again.
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I didn't say that they could not be middle of the lineup hitters, but lots of bad teams have OK, nothing special, middle of the lineup hitters, and I'm concerned that that's where these guys are heading. By the way, I doubt that it's all the experts. Because the real experts aren't talking. The ones who talk are the ones that want you to follow their forecasts, kind of like everyone is now an NFL draft expert.

And, sure, they've been hot, they've been cold, and in between. So has everyone.

I appreciate that you follow the Mets minors closely. But it's easy to fall into the "every hammer sees a nail" problem. I hope you're right. For me, the guy who stands out as a potentially strong middle of the lineup guy is Alvarez. The ball explodes off his bat.
 
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rubaseball78 said:
Guys like piazza and alonso can hit with power to right field.
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Yes, they can take the outside pitch to right field with power, with their natural swing. What we are talking about here is intentionally trying to go the other way to beat the shift. I don't see how you can intentionally do that without sacrificing power.
 
rubaseball78 said:
Guys like piazza and alonso can hit with power to right field.
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David Wright was also very good at this.
Doctor Worm said:
Yes, they can take the outside pitch to right field with power, with their natural swing. What we are talking about here is intentionally trying to go the other way to beat the shift. I don't see how you can intentionally do that without sacrificing power.
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Worm- the point is- they may not always just look to punch a hit the other way just to beat the shift. But, they are good enough to go the other way with power if the pitch is mid plate to the outside corner. But if the pitcher makes a mistake on the inside, they still go all launch angle OVER the shift.
But there is also situational. Down 2 or more and you are batting with no one on, if they shift, yes, the hit the other way is almost better than drilling a HR...
 
willisneverrana43 said:
I didn't say that they could not be middle of the lineup hitters, but lots of bad teams have OK, nothing special, middle of the lineup hitters, and I'm concerned that that's what these guys are heading. By the way, I doubt that it's all the experts. Because the real experts aren't talking. The ones who talk are the ones that want you to follow their forecasts, kind of like everyone is now an NFL draft expert.

And, sure, they've been hot, they've been cold, and in between. So has everyone.

I appreciate that you follow the Mets minors closely. But it's easy to fall into the "every hammer sees a nail" problem. I hope you're right. For me, the guy who stands out as a potentially strong middle of the lineup guy is Alvarez. The ball explodes off his bat.
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Alvarez is on another level than those 2 so yes he's the real deal and wouldnt put him in same group as Baty/Vientos. I also don't think that every Mets prospect is going to come in and be an All Star top MLB talent. I have been following Mets minors for 20 years though and we haven't had many bats like Baty or Vientos come through. Time will tell.

Some writers dont want the grind of an every day MLB job but that doesn't mean you can't call them an expert. Jim Callis or Keith Law have been doing this longer than most MLB executives so they know what they're looking for. Of course they miss as well when humans are involved you can't predict everything.
 
Zak57 said:
. . . Jim Callis or Keith Law have been doing this longer than most MLB executives so they know what they're looking for. . . .
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You'll never convince me that they know and evaluate better than the guys in the front offices being paid more and with their jobs on the line based on being right or wrong. Now, maybe they have some usefulness if they have contacts inside front offices and then either report or reflect what they learn from those contacts. But, otherwise, I'[m not very interested in what they say. Don't get me wrong. I like some of the minor league blogs, particularly when they provide videos and recount the previous day's performances and where the players' stats stand. But that's all I really like them for, not their amateur analyses.

I suspect that a lot of us who follow the Mets, follow their minors to some extent. I remember being all fired up about Greg Jeffries, and before that Daryl, and others.
 
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June 12 Mets Farm Report (Top 25 prospects per MLB Pipeline)

AVG/OPS or E.R.A (W-L) (S)

1) Francisco Alvarez C (AA Binghamton) – 1/4, HR(13), 2 R, RBI, BB, K, .275/.897

2) Brett Baty 3B/OF (AA Binghamton) – 1/2, HR(5), 2 R, 2 RBI, 2 BB, .274/.809

3) Ronny Mauricio SS (AA Binghamton) – 1/2, R, 2 BB, .249/.747

4) Mark Vientos 3B/1B/OF (AAA Syracuse) – 1/5, HR(8), R, 2 RBI, 2 K, .248/.813

5) Matt Allan RHP (High A Brooklyn) - Injured – Elbow expected back 2023

6) Alex Ramirez OF (Low A St. Lucie) – 2/3, R, RBI, 2 BB, .311/.815

7) Khalil Lee OF (NY Mets) - DNP

8) Nick Plummer OF (NY Mets) - DNP

9) Dominic Hamel RHP (Low A St. Lucie) - DNP

10) Joel Diaz RHP (Low A St. Lucie) - DNP

11) Calvin Ziegler RHP (Low A St. Lucie) - DNP

12) Jose Butto RHP (AA Binghamton) - DNP

13) Simon Juan OF (Rookie DSL Mets) - DNP

14) Jaylen Palmer 3B/OF (High A Brooklyn) – 1/3, HR(6), R, 4 RBI, 2 K, .176/.606

15) Carlos Cortes 2B/OF (AA Binghamton) – 1/3, R, 2 RBI, BB, .217/.616

16) Junior Santos RHP (High A Brooklyn) - DNP

17) Eric Orze RHP (AAA Syracuse) – 1.1 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 0 K, 0 HR, 5.76

18) Robert Dominguez RHP (Low A St. Lucie) - Injured – Arm surgery expected back 2023

19) JT Schwartz 1B (High A Brooklyn) – 1/4, R, 2 K, .264/.717

20) Hayden Senger C (AAA Syracuse) – 2/4, 2B(1), R, K, .261/.565

21) Mike Vasil RHP (High A Brooklyn) - DNP

22) Jake Mangum OF (AAA Syracuse) – Injured – Expected back this month

23) Jordany Ventura RHP (Low A St. Lucie) – 2.0 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 2 K, 0 HR, 0.00

24) Josh Walker LHP (AAA Syracuse) - Injured Expected back 2022

25) Christian Scott RHP (Low A St. Lucie) - DNP
 
willisneverrana43 said:
You'll never convince me that they know and evaluate better than the guys in the front offices being paid more and with their jobs on the line based on being right or wrong. Now, maybe they have some usefulness if they have contacts inside front offices and then either report or reflect what they learn from those contacts. But, otherwise, I'[m not very interested in what they say. Don't get me wrong. I like some of the minor league blogs, particularly when they provide videos and recount the previous day's performances and where the players' stats stand. But that's all I really like them for, not their amateur analyses.

I suspect that a lot of us who follow the Mets, follow their minors to some extent. I remember being all fired up about Greg Jeffries, and before that Daryl, and others.
Click to expand...
Keith Law used to work in a FO. Plenty of writers I follow have been hired by MLB teams because they were good. Others like Goldstein have done it all. Started off as a writer, worked for the Astros, came back to writing. Plenty of idiots in MLB front offices. Look no further than our own team.

Darly was amazing so prospect writers were correct. Jeffries was actually good also but he obviously rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. Projections are a lot better now as well due to advanced metrics and analytics.

You don't see me claiming Mauricio is going to be a star. He has the body but he has a ton of stuff to work on and no future position here with us. Our biggest trade chip but a lot of people are down on him.
 
Zak57 said:
Keith Law used to work in a FO. Plenty of writers I follow have been hired by MLB teams because they were good. Others like Goldstein have done it all. Started off as a writer, worked for the Astros, came back to writing. Plenty of idiots in MLB front offices. Look no further than our own team.

Darly was amazing so prospect writers were correct. Jeffries was actually good also but he obviously rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. Projections are a lot better now as well due to advanced metrics and analytics.

You don't see me claiming Mauricio is going to be a star. He has the body but he has a ton of stuff to work on and no future position here with us. Our biggest trade chip but a lot of people are down on him.
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Jefferies had a very nice career. Two time All Star. Finished 11th in MVP balloting one year. Would have done even better had his career not been wrecked by injuries. Was basically done at age 31.

Horribly miscast as a Met in the late 80s.
 
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willisneverrana43 said:
On Jeffries, I remember the stories of his swinging a bat in a pool and doing other exercises set up by his dad.
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I always liked Jefferies and it disappointed me that he never really realized his potential - lofty or not. I also think the Mets veterans back on those late 80 clubs didn’t help matters by making life quite difficult for Jefferies.
 
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Zak57 said:
Alvarez is on another level than those 2 so yes he's the real deal and wouldnt put him in same group as Baty/Vientos. I also don't think that every Mets prospect is going to come in and be an All Star top MLB talent. I have been following Mets minors for 20 years though and we haven't had many bats like Baty or Vientos come through. Time will tell.

Some writers dont want the grind of an every day MLB job but that doesn't mean you can't call them an expert. Jim Callis or Keith Law have been doing this longer than most MLB executives so they know what they're looking for. Of course they miss as well when humans are involved you can't predict everything.
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Alvarez has become what the league would call a can't miss starter- All Star and potential for more.
We all know that can still fail but he has hit the "elite" must watch when he comes up status.
 
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Doctor Worm said:
Jefferies had a very nice career. Two time All Star. Finished 11th in MVP balloting one year. Would have done even better had his career not been wrecked by injuries. Was basically done at age 31.

Horribly miscast as a Met in the late 80s.
Click to expand...
over 5500 AB's and only averaged 38ks per 670 plate appearances. lifetime .289 hitter

We all expected .300 25 HR 25 SB 100/100 R/RBI every year...

His Stl years were pretty insane...
 
ChrisNalwasky said:
Haha. Both teams are having great seasons. I'm happy and my dad is happy lol..so far.
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Cant find anything to bust on the Yanks for...Except- they have played at this level with pretty much full strength. Yankees (1) Met's (2) have the best records in MLB and I believe the best records against winning teams.
We just have to worry about ourselves
 
yesrutgers01 said:
Cant find anything to bust on the Yanks for...Except- they have played at this level with pretty much full strength. Yankees (1) Met's (2) have the best records in MLB and I believe the best records against winning teams.
We just have to worry about ourselves
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Don’t know about everyone else here. But I’m cool that both NY teams are doing this well so far. I’m sure there’s at least three people who don’t agree but Fudge Em lol.
 
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Still 5 more Braves games to get thru before they take on someone with a pulse. 😩
 
MLB net just spent 5 mins on how Albies is a leader in the clubhouse and a spark plug who brings tremendous energy to ball club

I always viewed him as a PITA when playing the Mets
 
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