OT: Real Estate Question - Toms River/Brick and area

[NotInRHouse]

Assimilation and making it better.

Do that and these threads never happen.

Assimilation isn't a legally required construct though.
'
I don't see many people demanding the Amish adopt iPhones and cars.

There are legal remedies for what many people are talking about here- planning, budgeting, traffic enforcement.

The only issue I see is people are lackadaisical. If turnout at the polls in the surrounding towns matched what is in Lakewood, then this thread would not exist.

 

[yessir321]

You see if you started your responses with this I doubt you would have had many responses. But instead you invoked your “CE” call to action. As you tend to do. But if you were really concerned about minorities you would be here protecting minorities in Lakewood. The blacks and immigrant population being forced from their homes. You would be here protecting the school system that was once a source of pride that has been stripped clean by the people you are rallying behind. You would be here protecting the people that have no voice. This has always been about overpopulation and fiscal and social irresponsibility.

Read up on the people you are rallying behind.

Scathing state report rips Lakewood schools' backroom decision-making

A new review by the state Department of Education hits school board practices and lack of staff moral.

www.app.com

Race, religion, corruption and politics: A guide to the crisis in Lakewood

Arrests in the booming Orthodox Jewish community put New Jersey's fastest-growing town in the spotlight this summer.

www.nj.com

N.J. school district says it’s broke, can’t pay teachers without emergency loan

The school district requested a $104 million loan from the state that has not arrived yet, local school officials said.

www.nj.com

See my above response to Jaydog.

I understand full well communities being forced from their homes as it's happened to MY community for decades. The point is, once it starts there's no stopping it, people assimilate. If they wanna have a bazillion kids and overwhelm the voting block of that area that is 100% their right to do. Do I personally like it? Not really, but it's their right to do it.

It's not hard to find examples over the last 4 pages of other posters revealing their prejudices my guy

 

[JayDogSmooth]

See my above response to Jaydog.

I understand full well communities being forced from their homes as it's happened to MY community for decades. The point is, once it starts there's no stopping it, people assimilate. If they wanna have a bazillion kids and overwhelm the voting block of that area that is 100% their right to do. Do I personally like it? Not really, but it's their right to do it.

It's not hard to find examples over the last 4 pages of other posters revealing their prejudices my guy

Factual representations calling people out for exactly what they’re doing and what’s going is not prejudice, it’s the truth

We’ve said exactly what they’re doing and there’s not a stitch of debate that you can counter with

Personally, I’m not living around people like that that are looking out for themselves that a detriment of everybody else

 

[yessir321]

You could live anywhere, and a lot of it is what you make of it

I agree with that to an extent. I also recognize certain other aspects are beyond ones control like education, healthcare and overall demographics. We can debate Florida all you want but that's really not relevant here. I'm glad you are happy and we both agree that getting out of NJ is the right move

 

[e5fdny]

*Assimilation isn't a legally required construct though.

I don't see many people demanding the Amish adopt iPhones and cars.

There are legal remedies for what many people are talking about here- planning, budgeting, traffic enforcement.

The only issue I see is people are lackadaisical. If turnout at the polls in the surrounding towns matched what is in Lakewood, then this thread would not exist.

Lancaster proper looks like Lakewood in some parts, the Amish areas around it do not.

* True, but sometimes when you go along, you get along...better.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

I agree with that to an extent. I also recognize certain other aspects are beyond ones control like education, healthcare and overall demographics. We can debate Florida all you want but that's really not relevant here. I'm glad you are happy and we both agree that getting out of NJ is the right move

I’ll concur on that point

 

[NotInRHouse]

Lakewood is the reddest town in NJ presidentially. By far.

OTOH they supported Murphy in 2017, and the fact that there was no endorsement there in 2021 helped him win.

The voters there go where their bread is buttered. In Rockland they supported Mondaire Jones who is gay and black before switching this last election.

The interesting thing is that people opposed to their expansion could do the same. Right now Lakewood votes the same way Wall, Howell, Brick etc do for the most part...what if everyone in the surrounding towns said to stop what we don't like, we're going to vote for someone who will oppose it?

The issue as I see it is if we make laws that firmly entrench the Constitutional wall between religion and state- which I am all for- that will not go over well with some.

Again- reform RLIUPA federally. Get NJ to ban private school busing. There are easy solutions to a lot of this stuff. There's no will in certain quarters, and I'll leave the readers to determine why that is.

 

[yessir321]

Factual representations calling people out for exactly what they’re doing and what’s going is not prejudice, it’s the truth

We’ve said exactly what they’re doing and there’s not a stitch of debate that you can counter with

Personally, I’m not living around people like that that are looking out for themselves that a detriment of everybody else

Buddy, it's happening all over the place... Again, do you really not understand how my community (I'm black) has been forced out of our homes time and time again by other "groups" coming in? Those with far more money than my community because for so long we were kept down and could not build generational wealth? Dude, we've been dealing with Carpet Baggers our whole life. My wife is from New Orleans, her whole family is. Her neighborhood was wiped out by Katrina, the neighborhood is completely different today, different demographics, different people, etc.

Things change. If you don't wanna be around change that is your right

 

[NotInRHouse]

Lancaster proper looks like Lakewood in some parts, the Amish areas around it do not.

* True, but sometimes when you go along, you get along...better.

The beauty of NJ is that you can pick a place that looks Lakewood. Or Amish country. Or anything in between. The options are there. The price points are varied. You just have to take them.

And if people want to move from Lakewood area, they could probably have a urban and rural home in NJ just based on the sales price. Some of the prices there are absolutely wild.

Or, stay, and lobby along the lines I suggested.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Buddy, it's happening all over the place... Again, do you really not understand how my community (I'm black) has been forced out of our homes time and time again by other "groups" coming in? Those with far more money than my community because for so long we were kept down and could not build generational wealth? Dude, we've been dealing with Carpet Baggers our whole life. My wife is from New Orleans, her whole family is. Her neighborhood was wiped out by Katrina, the neighborhood is completely different today, different demographics, different people, etc.

Things change. If you don't wanna be around change that is your right

There’s change and then there’s Lakewood change

The neighborhood I was born to and grew up in until early middle school was predominantly Italian

It now has a very eclectic mix, and I love going back there to see all the different aspects that it has evolved into

Change is inevitable, and often times it’s good, but what’s happening in Lakewood (and, by a consequence ,the surrounding communities ) is not normal

 

[e5fdny]

The beauty of NJ is that you can pick a place that looks Lakewood. Or Amish country. Or anything in between. The options are there. The price points are varied. You just have to take them.

And if people want to move from Lakewood area, they could probably have a urban and rural home in NJ just based on the sales price. Some of the prices there are absolutely wild.

Or, stay, and lobby along the lines I suggested.

Or just mow your lawn, plant a bush or some flowers.

 

[NotInRHouse]

There’s change and then there’s Lakewood change

The neighborhood I was born to and grew up in until early middle school was predominantly Italian

It now has a very eclectic mix, and I love going back there to see all the different aspects that it has evolved into

Change is inevitable, and often times it’s good, but what’s happening in Lakewood (and, by a consequence ,the surrounding communities ) is not normal

It's an interesting question.

Here in JC, we have different streets named in honor of different ethnic groups.

For example, Manila Ave and Christopher Columbus Drive.

However, my guess is...there's probably more people who grew up in the Midwest rather than Manila on that street now. Columbus...maybe the most at a single digit percentage and I doubt any Italian speakers.

And I am sure many of the local old timers would agree with those around Lakewood...they don't like the change even if their property quintupled in value, or more.

I would argue things are better here anyway, but I have heard people who grew up here say the opposite. They cannot afford to live here. The new restaurants and businesses are not tailored to them and out of budget. The newcomers look at them askew, or complain about things they have always done. Their children couldn't afford to come back after college (that one may be NJ wide).

I don't have the answer to that but I can say I don't like being regarded as an interloper...I've lived here more than anywhere else in my life now but I'll always be an outsider to some, and I am not someone whose dress or appearance would mark me as anything outside of the mainstream.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Or just mow your lawn, plant a bush or some flowers.

I might have found a solution.

Manasquan and Belmar code enforcement...patrolling the towns surrounding Lakewood? 😂

if they issue fines the same way...Jackson will paying a dividend rather than collecting tax.

 

[toby83]

NJ taxpayers are paying for their buses, regardless of where you live because Lakewood is tapped out. Insanity.

 

[kupuna133]

See my above response to Jaydog.

I understand full well communities being forced from their homes as it's happened to MY community for decades. The point is, once it starts there's no stopping it, people assimilate. If they wanna have a bazillion kids and overwhelm the voting block of that area that is 100% their right to do. Do I personally like it? Not really, but it's their right to do it.

It's not hard to find examples over the last 4 pages of other posters revealing their prejudices my guy

Then you should have known the argument you chose had flaws. And you should be here defending “your” community. That is severely being abused in this scenario from a quality of life and educational perspective. Instead you thought you would stand on your preconceived righteousness side and have many people rush to your side when you claimed it was anti semitism being led by MAGA. When you have been shown these flaws you once again pivot and move the argument to some other topic.

This has always been about overpopulation, and fiscal irresponsibility. You chose to make it something it wasn’t. And as you said outside of Lakewood they are a minority. When 85% of their statewide population lives in one place they lose minority status. And the surrounding communities and entire cannot be forced no matter how hard they try to bend to their wishes.

There is a zero percent chance of Toms River, Brick, Manchester, and Jackson allowing themselves to be forced to merge with Lakewood.

 

[e5fdny]

I might have found a solution.

Manasquan and Belmar code enforcement...patrolling the towns surrounding Lakewood? 😂

if they issue fines the same way...Jackson will be paying a dividend rather than collecting tax.

That's what I'm saying about the "to get along you have to go along" thing.

Just a little on the upkeep part and you're (perceived anyway) a better neighbor.

 

[e5fdny]

Then you should have known the argument you chose had flaws. And you should be here defending “your” community. That is severely being abused in this scenario from a quality of life and educational perspective. Instead you thought you would stand on your preconceived righteousness side and have many people rush to your side when you claimed it was anti semitism being led by MAGA. When you have been shown these flaws you once again pivot and move the argument to some other topic.

This has always been about overpopulation, and fiscal irresponsibility. You chose to make it something it wasn’t. And as you said outside of Lakewood they are a minority. When 85% of their statewide population lives in one place they lose minority status. And the surrounding communities and entire cannot be forced no matter how hard they try to bend to their wishes.

There is a zero percent chance of Toms River, Brick, Manchester, and Jackson allowing themselves to be forced to merge with Lakewood.

Not forced but as @tom1944 says...give it time. Once there is physically no more room and the branching out begins, as it is now, it could happen. Not the merging but just having a big enough presence to get things done the way they want.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

It's an interesting question.

Here in JC, we have different streets named in honor of different ethnic groups.

For example, Manila Ave and Christopher Columbus Drive.

However, my guess is...there's probably more people who grew up in the Midwest rather than Manila on that street now. Columbus...maybe the most at a single digit percentage and I doubt any Italian speakers.

And I am sure many of the local old timers would agree with those around Lakewood...they don't like the change even if their property quintupled in value, or more.

I would argue things are better here anyway, but I have heard people who grew up here say the opposite. They cannot afford to live here. The new restaurants and businesses are not tailored to them and out of budget. The newcomers look at them askew, or complain about things they have always done. Their children couldn't afford to come back after college (that one may be NJ wide).

I don't have the answer to that but I can say I don't like being regarded as an interloper...I've lived here more than anywhere else in my life now but I'll always be an outsider to some, and I am not someone whose dress or appearance would mark me as anything outside of the mainstream.

Those are some good points, but I think like most things in life, compromise is the hardest thing, yet the ultimate goal, and if people put their pride and ego aside, can be accomplished relatively easily in most cases

 

[kupuna133]

Not forced but as @tom1944 says...give it time. Once there is physically no more room and the branching out begins, as it is now, it could happen. Not the merging but just having a big enough presence to get things done the way they want.

Oh I know. But the last 4 pages were in response to a call to action, posted by Tom, real time to “force” the merger. Not some time in the future through vote but through forced merger.
As you know the towns they are encroaching upon will not sit idly by and allow this to happen. As I said this can lead to an all out physical conflict.

 

[yessir321]

Then you should have known the argument you chose had flaws. And you should be here defending “your” community. That is severely being abused in this scenario from a quality of life and educational perspective. Instead you thought you would stand on your preconceived righteousness side and have many people rush to your side when you claimed it was anti semitism being led by MAGA. When you have been shown these flaws you once again pivot and move the argument to some other topic.

This has always been about overpopulation, and fiscal irresponsibility. You chose to make it something it wasn’t. And as you said outside of Lakewood they are a minority. When 85% of their statewide population lives in one place they lose minority status. And the surrounding communities and entire cannot be forced no matter how hard they try to bend to their wishes.

There is a zero percent chance of Toms River, Brick, Manchester, and Jackson allowing themselves to be forced to merge with Lakewood.

You didn’t grasp anything I was saying did you?

Clearly not. I’ve explained this 4 different ways and yet you refuse to see whats right in front of you.

The last 4 pages have been nothing but you complaining about the Jews. They had the babies, they grew the population. You don’t like it? Leave. I left Jersey the second I graduated Rutgers and never looked back. Now politely shut the f*ck up with your antisemitism and complaining about a religious group because you disagree with their culture. Led by MAGA? Or influenced by maga? MAGA has made it socially acceptable to hate one another again so let’s ride!

 

[yessir321]

There’s change and then there’s Lakewood change

The neighborhood I was born to and grew up in until early middle school was predominantly Italian

It now has a very eclectic mix, and I love going back there to see all the different aspects that it has evolved into

Change is inevitable, and often times it’s good, but what’s happening in Lakewood (and, by a consequence ,the surrounding communities ) is not normal

Dude, again I cite my wife’s neighborhood in New Orleans. It was 90% black pre Katrina. The carpet baggers came in when people were desperate and now this neighborhood which was a historically black neighborhood is built up with McMansions and the like, it’s forced everyone native out. Most moved to Houston.

It was devestating sure but you know what it really was? A reminder that NO ONE CARES unless you have the money.

The orthodox community has the money, space ran out in Brooklyn and they needed a place to go. Where are they supposed to go? It’s part of their culture to live near one another and walk to synagogue on saturdays. Truly what are they supposed to do? Stop reproducing?

 

[kupuna133]

You didn’t grasp anything I was saying did you?

Clearly not. I’ve explained this 4 different ways and yet you refuse to see whats right in front of you.

The last 4 pages have been nothing but you complaining about the Jews. They had the babies, they grew the population. You don’t like it? Leave. I left Jersey the second I graduated Rutgers and never looked back. Now politely shut the f*ck up with your antisemitism and complaining about a religious group because you disagree with their culture. Led by MAGA? Or influenced by maga? MAGA has made it socially acceptable to hate one another again so let’s ride!

There it is once again lose the argument and resort to name calling race baiting and antisemitism. Can’t grasp anything you say because you talk out of both sides of your ass. You are very predictable.

 

[yessir321]

There it is once again lose the argument and resort to name calling race baiting and antisemitism. Can’t grasp anything you say because you talk out of both sides of your ass. You are very predictable.

Buddy what ‘argument’ are you trying to ‘win’?

Literally all you are doing is b*tching about a minority group and how they have moved into an area. We’re on 4 pages now! How much longer are you gonna not grasp this?

 

[kupuna133]

Buddy what ‘argument’ are you trying to ‘win’?

Literally all you are doing is b*tching about a minority group and how they have moved into an area. We’re on 4 pages now! How much longer are you gonna not grasp this?

I see you used your other favorite expression carpet bagging. What’s next? The argument is you have one mission on this site and that’s to create drama with your CE bullshit. A platform I didn’t know existed until you falsely accused me of being on the site. Never have been never will be. You have no idea what you are talking about and push your fear mongering race baiting agenda everywhere.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Dude, again I cite my wife’s neighborhood in New Orleans. It was 90% black pre Katrina. The carpet baggers came in when people were desperate and now this neighborhood which was a historically black neighborhood is built up with McMansions and the like, it’s forced everyone native out. Most moved to Houston.

It was devestating sure but you know what it really was? A reminder that NO ONE CARES unless you have the money.

The orthodox community has the money, space ran out in Brooklyn and they needed a place to go. Where are they supposed to go? It’s part of their culture to live near one another and walk to synagogue on saturdays. Truly what are they supposed to do? Stop reproducing?

Stop gaming the system

It’s not the amount of kids they have, it’s the corruption, on multiple levels, that they perpetuate that is leading to a lot of the issues

Again, it’s been well documented What is going on in Lakewood - and if it were just about having kids, nobody would be complaining

 

[tom1944]

NJ taxpayers are paying for their buses, regardless of where you live because Lakewood is tapped out. Insanity.

The situation with the buses was the result of pressure from the Catholic schools. It started in Edison/Woodbridge in the 1980s.

There is more money spent on Catholic transportation than Orthodox transportation

 

[kupuna133]

The situation with the buses was the result of pressure from the Catholic schools. It started in Edison/Woodbridge in the 1980s.

There is more money spent on Catholic transportation than Orthodox transportation

Agreed. But one major difference. You are comparing expense across the entire state and not in one district. Which comes at the expense of the health of the entire public school system of the town. Courtesy busing should be discontinued.

 

[T2Kplus20]

There is more money spent on Catholic transportation than Orthodox transportation

This is likely untrue. Also, name a town/school district that literally went bankrupt due to busing catholic school kids.

 

[yessir321]

I see you used your other favorite expression carpet bagging. What’s next? The argument is you have one mission on this site and that’s to create drama with your CE bullshit. A platform I didn’t know existed until you falsely accused me of being on the site. Never have been never will be. You have no idea what you are talking about and push your fear mongering race baiting agenda everywhere.

Whatever helps you sleep at night as you are now on page 5 of talking about how much you hate the Jews…. Carry on

 

[T2Kplus20]

Whatever helps you sleep at night as you are now on page 5 of talking about how much you hate the Jews…. Carry on

Put down the weed and stop the stupid.

 

[toby83]

What's wrong with the Yessir poster? Guy sounds miserable like he starts off every day with a giant bowl of cocks for breakfast.

 

[kupuna133]

Whatever helps you sleep at night as you are now on page 5 of talking about how much you hate the Jews…. Carry on

Point out one place where I come even close to saying anything similar to what you claim. I have no issues with their religion. I respect them for their devotion. You my friend are the one that spews your evil ways in every thread.

But once again keep up with your mission of race baiting/anti semitic reference. Your act is old. Remember to pivot.

And don’t worry I sleep well.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

What's wrong with the Yessir poster? Guy sounds miserable like he starts off every day with a giant bowl of cocks for breakfast.

I’ve used the “bag of dicks” mantra in a few instances, but may pivot to “bowl of cocks” next time

 

[tom1944]

Agreed. But one major difference. You are comparing expense across the entire state and not in one district. Which comes at the expense of the health of the entire public school system of the town. Courtesy busing should be discontinued.

While I agree with you that is not what post 614 is being accurate about. It infers that the Orthodox are a burden on the entire State because of busing. The truth is the Catholic schools are a larger burden.

The law resulted because because of budget stress Edison and Woodbridge tried to cut parochial school busing. The result was a statute that towns had to cover the cost.

The Diocese of Metuchen played a huge role in the statute even though they defeated both towns before the law was passed.

 

[tom1944]

This is likely untrue. Also, name a town/school district that literally went bankrupt due to busing catholic school kids.

It is completely true.

The Orthodox actually could do exactly what the Metuchen Diocese did. Tell every parent to enroll their student in the public school and see how fast the towns change their complaints about busing costs.

 

[T2Kplus20]

It is completely true.

Nope. Besides most private school students go to secular or non-catholic schools nowadays. Also, you didn't answer my other question. Have catholic students ever bankrupted an entire school district like Lakewood?

 

[yessir321]

Put down the weed and stop the stupid.

Wife’s still not giving you enough attention I see

 

[kupuna133]

While I agree with you that is not what post 614 is being accurate about. It infers that the Orthodox are a burden on the entire State because of busing. The truth is the Catholic schools are a larger burden.

The law resulted because because of budget stress Edison and Woodbridge tried to cut parochial school busing. The result was a statute that towns had to cover the cost.

The Diocese of Metuchen played a huge role in the statute even though they defeated both towns before the law was passed.

You do know that the Lakewood school system is under state purview? You do know they have a loan from the state that they are in default. Tell me how this is not a state problem? The state does not pay for Catholic School busing. The individual towns do. I guess you didn’t read the article I posted earlier regarding the issues and the pending further insolvency of the Lakewood public school system.

N.J. school district says it’s broke, can’t pay teachers without emergency loan

The school district requested a $104 million loan from the state that has not arrived yet, local school officials said.

www.nj.com

 

[T2Kplus20]

Wife’s still not giving you enough attention I see

^^^^^

 

[T2Kplus20]

You do know that the Lakewood school system is under state purview? You do know they have a loan from the state that they are in default. Tell me how this is not a state problem? The state does not pay for Catholic School busing. The individual towns do. I guess you didn’t read the article I posted earlier regarding the issues and the pending further insolvency of the Lakewood public school system.

N.J. school district says it’s broke, can’t pay teachers without emergency loan

The school district requested a $104 million loan from the state that has not arrived yet, local school officials said.

www.nj.com

Stop! Tom doesn't like facts. It makes him feel bad.