She's 30 wins shy of 1000 for her career. She won't get that until the 2017-18 season. Hopefully.
OT: So criticizing WBB is against the law?
- Thread starter RU4Real
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She's 30 wins shy of 1000 for her career. She won't get that until the 2017-18 season. Hopefully.
the problem is this thread was moved over the womens hoops board where it shouldnt be because its a thread on guys opinion of womens hoops who arent fans of the program so the fault there lies with the mod
Rac your are a big hoops fan. So enlighten us on your postion. Stay or go at the end of her contract.
i have been bac and forth on CVS for the past few years. They dont like me on the womens board because I am too negative. I am actually a positoid here because I think most of the male football fans just disregard and dont appreciate here so I find myself sticking up for her here yet being critical over there.
Say what you want about Julie but she dealt with CVS contract in 2014 something that TP refused to go near and that potientially hurt recruiting. The new contract dropped CVS salary to $700K down from whatever ridiculous amount and was instead incentive laden giving CVS her 500K back if she performed by getting the team to the Sweet 16. The contract was a 4 year contract but negotiated by Julie to just be guaranteed for 2. It was definitely a contract that protected RUs interest. So here we are and it looks like CVS probably stays just because its tough to get rid of her like so close to 1000K and Hobbs quite frankly has had a lot on his plate, Id even be surprised if they have had any kind of sitdown of substance yet. Unfortunately the program is in a decline and underacheived despite 3 WNBA potential players on the rosters, next two years seem bleak but hopefully Hobbs can come up with a plan for a coach in waiting
Bac, that maybe the most honest answer on this board ever. Some will kill your for that but it is what it is. Some on these boards can not tolerate any realism but the facts are what they are. Doubt she gets fired but today it's better if she does. And it's not being negative it's just time to move on. She has had a great career but that's in the past.
Places in NYC have the terrible corporate lineup because that's the crap that thousands of tourists are drinking every day. There's plenty of good beer in the city and you don't even have to know where to look.
Pull the pin and throw a few Lady Knight grenades over there and see how that goes.
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Maybe it has to do with that venue being run predominately by women and they don't play this word game like men do ? Not an excuse . Just a thought.
There's nothing wrong with questioning CViv's contract or WBB in general. I don't care at all if people go on the board and post similar stuff. It's just asked that people actually back any statement up with actual discussion instead of things like "I don't know how much she makes, or anything about her, but she makes too much." Hit and run crap isn't cool on any of these boards, especially negative repetitive posting (or attacks on posters because of your opinion of WBB). Make your case and discuss it civilly.
The thing that really irks me is the dismissive superior attitude about female athletes who have brought a lot of positives to Rutgers. All the bitching about Title 9 and minimizing of the accomplishments of the women's basketball TEAM makes me angry. We've place a lot of athletes in the WNBA over the years and will do so again this year. The men would love to have such success. While Vivian Stringer is not producing as she has in the past, that does not diminish the achievements and effort of the women on the team. And I agree with PhilaPhans - back up those sweeping statements with facts to back them up. Someone posted that the women's basketball team does not deserve the funding they receive, yet they are arguably the most visible Rutgers team other than football and men's basketball in the national sports landscape.
It's been a great program for years and it, along with CVS, have brought the school nothing but positive accolades and accomplishments over the years, nobody will ever question that and I'll be the first to champion when called for here or anywhere else. At the same time there is nothing wrong with talking about the fact that the game has passed her by and, maybe, it's time for her to retire. Bottom line is many - way too many programs - that we once dwarfed have not only surpassed us but are looking at "Rutgers" in their rear view mirrors and, unfortunately, it may only get worse in the next 2 years. I hope not, I really don't, but her teams don't/can't play D the way they used to, recruiting has dropped big time, and making the NIT is, well, not what is expected of THIS program, right?
WERE the most visible Rutgers team. About 5 years ago when they were the only ranked team we had. Women's soccer & mens wrestling are now the most visible teams, both of which coaching staffs combined make less than VivPa.
The trend line is not good and the most talented players on the team graduate this year. Recruiting has declined notably and I think she will struggle to get 30 wins over the next 2 years without some quality additions or a Marianne Stanley like assistant who can help her maximize the performance from the talent she has.
Of course every year the team starts out real slow losing some doozies and I mention that RU will not go to the NCAA I get yelled out saying let the year play out. Weird cult going on over there.
I agree with you CVS teams aren't what they use to be, but compared to other Rutgers teams they are still the gold standard. People complain about NIT bids, but if the men's team were to receive a NIT bid now this board would jump for joy like like the we just hit the powerball jackpot. How many Rutgers teams don't know what a .500 record is... several. I just think some of the hate against the women's team has more to do with the lack of success by the men's team. So you transfer your anger to something else like the WBB because it's easy and lack faithful fan support.
You know facts can never get in the way of promoting one's agenda. You (& PhilaPhans) make some great points that some posters like RU4Real ignored. CVS isn't making $1.7 million like he claims.
No team is above being questioned, but b*tching just because isn't right either. It speaks to a bigger problem like the lack of support from the athletic dept., University, and Trenton. These same individuals who complain usually direct it against the wrong people.
You're trying to dismiss my post because it puts a dent into your agenda. knightfan2000 and PhilaPhans make excellent points about posts like yours.
I never said that CVS was getting $1.7 million a year. I said that coaching staff compensation was $1.7 million in 2014. It was. Period. That's what Rutgers reported to the NCAA.
this. There is a club mentality there that is extremely sensitive to who posts when and about what. In fairness, what really sets them off is two things. Folks that come there only after loses to bitch and moan , and perceived attacks on the coach.
They certainly don't have think skins but some of the folks who just pop up to beat up on things don't help. But the constant defense of a program going backwards by calling out the guys is just immature. We know we have a disaster on the en's side. So that makes it ok for the women who used to dominate to be mediocre? great logic.
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She's a hall of fame coach that runs a high school offense.... poorly. This has been going on for years. The women's game is loaded with quality shooters. We haven't had a good shooter since...? We can't recruit one? We can't develop one? This is 100% on CViv. I support the program, I want to them to succeed, but facts are facts. I'm tired of seeing a stagnant, poorly coached offense.
IMHO THIS is the problem. Folks living in the past and not the last 5 years of downward trend. Going from being a program in discuss with UCONN, ND, Tenn and making the sweet 16 to now an afterthought in the BIG and hoping to get in and win a game in the tourney.
I don't care about how many players a coach gets into the pros. I care about what the team does at Rutgers.
That being said, I am not in the camp to bail right now on CVS. Let it go for another year..let's fix the men's program and others for now.
Bac makes two really good points here. While you can argue the expenses are still out of whack they have been dealt with, and moved in the right direction. With all the things Hobbs has to focus one, doing anything with CVS beyond letting the current contract run out is just asking for a very distracting and divisive struggle none of us need.
If the folks on the WBB board don't like infrequent visitors mansplaining to them I don't really mind. You can always start up a "CVS makes too much money and I don't like women's sports" board and kvetch to your heart's content there.
More than the defensiveness on the board what I really don't get is that certain people over there are utterly convinced if the University supported WBB/CVS appropriately they'd be Summit's UTenn or Geno's UConn. Unfortunately what data we have shows the opposite. Despite an oversized investment by the U the program just doesn't generate revenue. I really don't know why, and have thought about it a fair amount. Something about this market or fan base, or whatever, folks just aren't buying tickets. My best supposition is that the two programs in the sport that really throw off dollars are very much outliers. Will post-Summit UTenn keep it up? When Geno leaves will UConn? Who knows? But it seems unlikely we'll ever recreate that level of support here.
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folks aren't buying tickets because the quality of the product/excitement is down. Frustrated with seeing the same ol-same ol of late. and I'll say it. Just like the men. Sometimes I wouldn't go for free after years of paying/attending both sports.
On the fence about tonight but feel I should go and support the NIT home game.
and as I write this, I am surprised the women's team hasn't experienced a bit of a surge in attendance given how much the men's is down. But perhaps there really is just a lack of interest in the women's game (which is a shame)
On the fence about tonight but feel I should go and support the NIT home game.
and as I write this, I am surprised the women's team hasn't experienced a bit of a surge in attendance given how much the men's is down. But perhaps there really is just a lack of interest in the women's game (which is a shame)
Even when they were at their best winning and playing exciting hoops they needed to sell a lot of tickets to UConn fans to sell out our rather small building. I don't know if it is Rutgers, or Women's hoops more generally, but I am not aware of a lot of evidence for if you win the fans will show up.
What is South Carolina doing?
NCAA
Women's basketball attendance tops 11 million for eighth consecutive year
"- South Carolina led the nation in home attendance for the first time at 12,293 fans per game. It snapped a streak of 11 straight seasons where Tennessee had led the nation in attendance. Tennessee was second in the nation at 10,375. This is the first time that a school other than Tennessee or Connecticut has led the nation in attendance since 1994 (Ohio State).
- South Carolina’s attendance in 2014-15 jumped nearly 6,000 fans per game from its 2013-14 total, going from 6,371 to more than 12,000 fans per game. This is the second consecutive year that South Carolina has led the nation in most improved attendance, having increased 2,419 fans per game during the 2013-14 season."
While the men draw over 27 million.
NCAA
MEN’S BASKETBALL ATTENDANCE UP SLIGHTLY IN 2014-15
Answered my won question. I forgot they hired Dawn Staley.
Seems the model is to win in a town that is sort of boring. I've been to Knoxville and Hartford. They are plenty dull. Never been there, but have been told by people that Columbia makes both look frenetic.
USA Today
South Carolina's Dawn Staley emerging as new face of women's basketball
The State
Staley first USC women’s coach to earn $1 million per year
Her base pay is still less than CVS, $550,000 vs. $700,000. With bonuses they are both eligible for a seven figure pay day. But just like in the past with Summit and Geno, while her pay is comparable the revenue just isn't there. Geno and Pat also have more hardware on the shelves of course. We'll see if Staley starts getting big trophies.
See also:
"NOTE: Each USC basketball team will play in Colonial Life Arena for at least the next 10 years. The company extended its naming-rights agreement through 2025 at a cost of $6.4 million over the life of the deal."
When are we getting one of those?
Seems the model is to win in a town that is sort of boring. I've been to Knoxville and Hartford. They are plenty dull. Never been there, but have been told by people that Columbia makes both look frenetic.
USA Today
South Carolina's Dawn Staley emerging as new face of women's basketball
The State
Staley first USC women’s coach to earn $1 million per year
Her base pay is still less than CVS, $550,000 vs. $700,000. With bonuses they are both eligible for a seven figure pay day. But just like in the past with Summit and Geno, while her pay is comparable the revenue just isn't there. Geno and Pat also have more hardware on the shelves of course. We'll see if Staley starts getting big trophies.
See also:
"NOTE: Each USC basketball team will play in Colonial Life Arena for at least the next 10 years. The company extended its naming-rights agreement through 2025 at a cost of $6.4 million over the life of the deal."
When are we getting one of those?
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Here is Rutgers Women's BB Home Avg. Attendance...(using spring year to designate)
2016: 2262
2015: 1649
2014: 2084
2013: 2476
2012: 3039 (#39 national)
2011: 3194 (#37)
2010: 3354 (#37)
2009: 4740 (didn't see rank)
2008: 3654 "" ""
2007: 4609 " ""
so yeah, uconn and ND helped but we're in the B1G and that didn't. I think those numbers support winning helps (a lot). not that we were selling out the place but it wasn't a graveyard and has been on the downward spiral last 5 years
2016: 2262
2015: 1649
2014: 2084
2013: 2476
2012: 3039 (#39 national)
2011: 3194 (#37)
2010: 3354 (#37)
2009: 4740 (didn't see rank)
2008: 3654 "" ""
2007: 4609 " ""
so yeah, uconn and ND helped but we're in the B1G and that didn't. I think those numbers support winning helps (a lot). not that we were selling out the place but it wasn't a graveyard and has been on the downward spiral last 5 years
The difference is there is little to in Ville/Hartford/Columbia and definitely no pro sports.
I think everyone appreciates what CVS has done, she just isn't getting the results anymore and if we don't go to the tourney next year Hobbs needs to take action.
I think everyone appreciates what CVS has done, she just isn't getting the results anymore and if we don't go to the tourney next year Hobbs needs to take action.
The problem is, say she goes 14-16 next year. The bleating to "let her stay to get 1000 wins" will be unbearable. And then if she goes 15-15 in 2017-18, does she get an extension to get one more win in 2018-2019?
The athletics department has moved well beyond where they should be propping some coach up to meet some meaningless personal goal. Sure, if the program was getting 3000-4000 every night, you could make a case that they are coming to see VivPa. But the fact is, attendance is down to the 400-500 diehards who will come no matter who the coach is. Bringing in a new coach with a fresh personality and youthful energy will reenergize the program similar to the way the younger football staff has energized the fanbase.
I remember being very proud of the way the women's team handled themselves during the Imus scandal. CViv was worth every dime of her pay at that time due to the goodwill she created nationally for RU. They made it to the championship game. Most sports are not going to break-even in accounting terms but having successful wrestling/women's soccer/lacrosse can create an image that RU is an excellent institution that is hard to quantify. I continue to believe that GS generated huge returns on his pay for RU by getting a whole new generation of students to come out to football games. They will be much more likely to attend games in the future and contribute to RU. The Block R. Getting back to CViv, it appears that she is no longer the coach she was. Chaney was great at Temple (would have loved to have him here) but he eventually had to go.
this is all true and valid but I guess I am hoping she can work them back into a quality season next year. She needs to go get a JC transfer or two. She's not a buy or sell...but hold. I wish we were in a better position to make a change and MOST of all...find a way to make the change in a manner that honors her contribution to Rutgers.
This is kind of nuanced, but rather that going out to specifically target WBB, I think the question being asked is should they be exempt from criticism. Nobody else is.
Women's Hoops is a non-revenue sport. WBB like all the other programs that are not Men's Hoops and Football, cost more than they generate. That is true at all but a tiny handful of programs.
For example University of Nebraska volleyball team earned a $600,000 profit this last year. First time in the history of the program that happened. And they have won a lot.
Look at the chart included in the link. Every non-football, mbb or VB program in Lincoln is losing money. It's not just the women. Nebraska is a big time baseball school, they must make money? Nope. Losing 700k.
I'm not saying every program has to break even or better. I'm OK Title IX generally and think girls should have opportunities. Also sports without a big fan base can add to the university in other ways.
The question is what can we afford. I was regrettably OK with the Mulcahy era program cuts. Because we had to do something about the outgo versus the income. WBB should be in the conversation for who has to take a haircut until they start generating income.
"I want a winner and I'm going to be a winner. I just need everybody to be patient and let me build this program. I just know that Rutgers will be the jewel of the East."
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/15/s...ll-rutgers-pays-top-dollar-for-new-coach.html
I think you'd be surprised how many male followers there are for WBB and the message boards Felonious!
I get what you're saying, but certain posters go out of his or her way to take shots at WBB program. Meanwhile, as stated by you there are other programs in a lot worse situation. It come down to a poorly run athletic department which hasn't learned to maximize earning potential of programs set up to make money. Btw, I'm not against questioning WBB, but put the blame squarely where it belongs. Too many people yell at middle management while upper management gets a free pass.
Yes, never said there are no fully fledged members of the He-Man Women Haters Club, or worse, on this board. Some posters are less than subtle as to their animus.
facts are facts, this program has been losing more money every year, no fans in the stands, a coach who takes her que from the jon chaney.s book of recruitng. in the new age of womens basketball viv still plays the the same boring offence year after year, the game has passed her by wether the kool ade drinkers on the wbb board believe it or not. next year the goal will be to try and make the wnit, she cant recruit shooters because they know that ru is not the place for a pony tailed 3 point scorer. viv is becoming the casey stengel of the mets era, great past but no future.
I was a big fan of the team during my time at RU (early 80s). Of course the women's college basketball landscape was completely different back then, but the team was up-tempo, fast-paced, lots of scoring. I lost track of the team a bit after I left RU but regained interest when CVS was hired.
However, even from her early days I found the style of play under CVS difficult to watch. I put up with it while the team was on the rise and of course when they made it to the final fours, always hoping that the success would build and eventually lead to a more exciting team. Obviously that didn't happen and the team has been on the decline for several years. I can't remember the last time I actually watched a game.
Nothing against CVS, but it's time for some new blood. Personally I don't care if she gets her 1000th win here or somewhere else. It won't happen next year, though, not with the team that is returning.
However, even from her early days I found the style of play under CVS difficult to watch. I put up with it while the team was on the rise and of course when they made it to the final fours, always hoping that the success would build and eventually lead to a more exciting team. Obviously that didn't happen and the team has been on the decline for several years. I can't remember the last time I actually watched a game.
Nothing against CVS, but it's time for some new blood. Personally I don't care if she gets her 1000th win here or somewhere else. It won't happen next year, though, not with the team that is returning.
