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OT: Winter Storm Likely to Impact Our Area 1/16-17

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NWS:

Good Evening Everyone! You may have heard about a system affecting our region late this weekend. Here is the latest (as of Wednesday evening). A system is expected to cross over our region from late Sunday into Monday. The latest trend with the models has been for this to take a more inland track (instead of staying just off the coast). If this trend continues, that would mean more rain for the I- 95 corridor and coastal plains, while more wintry mix for areas north and west of the I-95 corridor. With this track, very little of our region would see a mostly snow event.

This is still 5 days out, so there remains quite a bit of uncertainty. We won't have a snow forecast for this until Friday night or Saturday morning (due to inherent uncertainty with snow forecasting, snow amount forecasts are issued for up to 3 days in advance). In the mean time, you can view the extended winter weather outlook (from NOAA NWS Weather Prediction Center) here: https://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/wwd/pwpf_d47/pwpf_medr.php and read our forecaster discussion on this system here: https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/total_forecast/getprod.php?new&prod=XXXAFDPHI&wfo=phi
 
Your giving amounts what models are showing 100 hours out. Its meaningless that the model shows 2 inches in sayreville and 8 inches in somerville as if that has ever happened...and given the volatility of the situation model snow maps are worthless right now

Nothing nuanced about it.
Of course it's meaningless as a forecast, but it's not to meaningless to demonstrate the gradient and we've had gradients that steep many times and to demonstrate that that kind of gradient could straddle 95. Most recent one I recall was March 2019, where we got 5" in Metuchen, they got 2" and 1" of sleet in NB and no snow with rain/sleet in EB, about 7 miles SSE of me. Somerville to Sayreville is about 16 miles, so 8" to 2" is very possible. I also recall a storm in March 2003, I think, where we got about an inch of slush with mostly rain and my good friend in Warren at about 300' elevation, 10 miles NW of us, got 16" of snow. So yeah it's very possible and happens occasionally with a snow/rain situation and can also happen with just precip, like it did on 1/3/22, when Toms River got 2" and 15 miles south on LBI and the mainland got 10"+. Also, have you seen me post a snowmap yet?
 
Hope it wear a mask.

Well, since you'd probably prefer it not to arrive, you should hope it throws a tantrum about the mask, gets kicked off the plane and never leaves its origin city. Just like the Two Rac Stooges would do!
 
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If it weren't for the ensemble mean tracks being just off the coast with lots of snow for most and it being 4 days out still with a poorly sampled shortwave off the PacNW coast (introducing even more uncertainty into the forecast), I'd be saying this is basically a rainstorm for the coast and 95 with increasing amounts of snow as one goes NW of 95. If the models still show similar tracks and mostly rain for 95 for the 12Z runs tomorrow, when we'll have much better initial model conditions, then it'll likely be over for major snow for 95.

However, right now 2 of the 4 global models (GFS/CMC) have tracks that start near Cape Hatteras and end up well inland near Harrisburg, which is very unusual for a Miller A type winter storm, which usually originates from a low traversing the country and then heads towards the Gulf of Mexico and then towards the NC coast and these then usually go up the east coast as a nor’easter. This coast to inland track leads to a bit of snow to start and then mostly rain for 95 and some heavy snow and then mix/rain well inland of 95. The other two global models (Euro/UK) have the low going just a bit inland the whole way up from NC, over about Allentown, PA, leading to a small snowfall along 95 and heavier snow to sleet to rain inland, similar to the GFS/CMC, even though the tracks are different.

Furthermore, it’s very important to note that the ensemble forecasts for at least the GFS and Euro, where the models are run dozens of times with variation of the initial conditions to gauge sensitivity of the models to those initial conditions (since they’re often not known that well, especially in this case with the primary energy over the Pacific Ocean; see below for more) indicate that the ensemble mean track is offshore and much snowier for the 95 corridor/coast, which is highly unusual, as the ensemble mean track and the main operational model track aren’t usually that far apart and this indicates that there could be modeling issues with the operational model runs, which is why ensemble track forecasts are often used by pros at this point vs. any individual operational model run.

In addition, we’re still 4 days out and track errors at this point are at least 150 miles, so everything except a complete rainstorm for everyone and a complete miss for everyone are very much in play (and even a rainstorm and a miss are not totally out of the question, but are far less likely). Also, right now most of the models have heavy snows (and potential icing east of the Apps) down into GA/SC/NC/VA/MD (inland from the coast) on Sunday, which is typical for a "Miller A" type winter storm (the Superstorm, Blizzard of ’93 was a Miller A).

With regard to model accuracy at this point, the NHC forecast track error for fully formed tropical systems is within a circle of radius of 150 miles at 4 days and we're at about 4 days before the event here and the forecast error for a poorly sampled system currently in the Pacific right now, which will morph and possibly phase in various unpredictable ways over the next 4 days, is a bit higher than that. And for the GFS/CMC runs we'd need a shift of about 125 miles for heavy snow along 95 and we'd need a shift of maybe 50-75 miles for that for the Euro/UK. Doable, but not something that can be counted on, which is why this still looks like a wetter than whiter solution for the 95 corridor (and all wet for the coast).

One last point: no matter what, we're going to have an astronomical high tide on Monday, so if we do get a strong coastal storm, coastal erosion and minor to moderate coastal flooding could become an issue. Too early for model maps and stuff yet, IMO, but these are readily available in the storm threads on the weather boards linked below (or from Pivotal or Tropical Tidbits sites).

https://www.weather.gov/phi/

https://www.33andrain.com/topic/2076-116-17-high-impact-winter-weather-event/page/42/

https://www.americanwx.com/bb/topic...gh-tide/page/17/?tab=comments#comment-6284225
 
For the past month, I have not been able to find any crescent rolls for my package of little weenies
ShopRite. And I love homemade pigs in a blanket. Use Thumans natural casing. You can cut them up into 4pieces per dog. So much better than a small weiner
 
NWS:

Good Evening Everyone! You may have heard about a system affecting our region late this weekend. Here is the latest (as of Wednesday evening). A system is expected to cross over our region from late Sunday into Monday. The latest trend with the models has been for this to take a more inland track (instead of staying just off the coast). If this trend continues, that would mean more rain for the I- 95 corridor and coastal plains, while more wintry mix for areas north and west of the I-95 corridor. With this track, very little of our region would see a mostly snow event.

This is still 5 days out, so there remains quite a bit of uncertainty. We won't have a snow forecast for this until Friday night or Saturday morning (due to inherent uncertainty with snow forecasting, snow amount forecasts are issued for up to 3 days in advance). In the mean time, you can view the extended winter weather outlook (from NOAA NWS Weather Prediction Center) here: https://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/wwd/pwpf_d47/pwpf_medr.php and read our forecaster discussion on this system here: https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/total_forecast/getprod.php?new&prod=XXXAFDPHI&wfo=phi
BOOM! Nice update, thanks for posting.
 
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Philly news saying models have it 70% inland which is snow to rain quickly.
 
Dan Zarrow 101.5....stop listening to social media and the hype. Wonder who he is talking about?
+1
Dan Zarrow dropped the hammer on all the wishcasters and wannabes out there. Great stuff! I hope some people will learn from experts like him.
 
Interesting discussions from the NWS-Philly/NYC on the storm, with the NYC office noting the uncertainty in the modeling with regard to track and outcomes. Clearly, the operational models last night are showing an almost all rain event for the 95 corridor and the coast with a transition to some significant snow/sleet not too far inland N of 78 (and W of 287) and especially N of 80 (and W of 287) and up into the Poconos/western Hudson Valley before any changeover to sleet/rain, but there is still some chance of the ensembles being more correct and a snowier solution for 95. Today's models should have better data inputs, so we'll see. The one thing that I didn't mention last night as a risk is that in addition to the coastal flooding risk, there's likely going to be some high winds, especially near the coast (50-60 mph gusts possible).

Area Forecast Discussion
National Weather Service Mount Holly NJ
521 AM EST Thu Jan 13 2022
LONG TERM /SUNDAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY/...

This system has the potential to yield multiple hazards across our
entire forecast area. The initial threat will be a period of snow
and/or sleet at the onset of precipitation, especially along and
north of the I-95 corridor. This currently appears to occur sometime
Sunday evening from south to north. Accumulating snow and/or sleet
is probable during this time, but a changeover to rain is expected
to race northwestward as strong warm air advection ramps up. The
changeover to rain appears to reach to near or perhaps just south of
the I-78 corridor (definitely north of Philly though) in the pre-
dawn hours Monday as precipitation begins to move out of the area
(and also as a possible dry slot moves in). More significant snow
and sleet accumulations are possible near and north of the Lehigh
Valley, but exact details on this remain to be seen at this time.

The second hazard of concern will be strong onshore winds. Within
the strong easterly pressure gradient that develops Sunday evening,
guidance is all in fairly good agreement with onshore (easterly) 925
mb winds 50-60 kts inland to around the I-95 corridor and 60-70+ kts
over the ocean, but obviously there is a question as to how much of
this mixes to the surface. We`ve seen this kind of setup a couple
times within the past few years though. Nevertheless, this will
likely lead to a period of windy conditions, especially along the
coasts and across the coastal plain. Thinking gusts of 40-50 mph are
possible, with gusts near 60 mph possible near the coasts late
Sunday evening. We`ll have to keep a close eye on this potential of
impactful wind gusts. Went on the conservative side of guidance in
the forecast as a good amount of uncertainty remains with this.

A couple additional potential hazards to mention are fresh water and
coastal flooding. Fortunately, this system will be moving fairly
quickly, but storm total QPF amounts of near or over one inch may be
possible. If this falls fast enough in areas where precipitation has
changed to rain, we could realize a localized excessive rainfall
flooding threat. Lastly, our coastal flooding forecasts are just
outside of the reach of this storm currently, but we do know that
the astronomical tides will be running above normal due to the full
moon on Monday. With a period of strong onshore winds, this could
result in some coastal flooding issues, especially along the ocean
front. Again, something to keep an eye on at this point.


Area Forecast Discussion
National Weather Service New York NY
700 AM EST Thu Jan 13 2022
LONG TERM /SATURDAY NIGHT THROUGH WEDNESDAY/...

A deepening low over the Tennessee Valley Saturday night will track
along or just east of the Appalachians Sunday, taking a track to the
west of the forecast area late Sunday night into Monday. The 00Z
operational run of the GFS, ECMWF, and Canadian are in very good
agreement with the surface low track with about a 980 mb low
occluding just west of the area during this time. What has been odd,
is that the 00Z GEFS mean and most of its member low tracks are
offshore, with the mean passing near the 40N...70W benchmark Monday
morning. About 24h ago, we saw this with both the GEFS and EPS.
However, the EPS and Canadian ensembles are both now closely in line
with their operational counterpart.

Thus, unless we see some big change in the low track as the Pac
energy comes onshore today, the forecast area will be on the warm
side of this system with a quick transition to rain at the coast and
a slower progression to rain for most inland locations. Locations
well north and west may be able to stay mainly snow (western half of
Orange) as the low occludes Sunday night and the area dry slots.
Coastal locations will see the boundary layer warm quickly with a
strong E/SE flow gusting in excess of 30 mph at coastal locations
Sunday night. The 00Z GFS brings a 60 to 70 kt LLJ across coastal
locations during this time. In fact, Sunday morning lows will be in
the single digits for most locations, quickly rising through the day
with the flow off the ocean.

The timing of the precipitation to begin looks to be late Sunday
afternoon/early evening at the coast and then quickly overspreading
the remainder of the area. For inland areas, there could be a quick
dump of heavy snow, especially the farther north and west as one
goes. Strong thermal forcing will be present as a warm, moist
conveyor belt off the Atlantic throws moisture over a retreating
arctic airmass. Much of the global guidance is producing 1 to 1.5
inches of rainfall through the event with PWAT values approaching an
inch (90th percentile). Warning level snow of 6 inches or more will
be possible from interior SW CT west across the Lower Hudson Valley.
Of course, any subtle track change will have impacts on how much
cold air is retained or eroded as the storm system approaches the
area.
 
Even absent snow this could be a very challenging weather event.

My biggest concern is what happens at the very beginning. Temps prior to arrival of the system will be well down into the single digits so anything that falls is going to freeze on contact with surfaces. I've seen "rain over ice" conditions on the roads a couple times before and it ain't pretty.
 
Even absent snow this could be a very challenging weather event.

My biggest concern is what happens at the very beginning. Temps prior to arrival of the system will be well down into the single digits so anything that falls is going to freeze on contact with surfaces. I've seen "rain over ice" conditions on the roads a couple times before and it ain't pretty.
Yep, so any delay in the warm-up could lead to a decent period of freezing rain - plus with cold conditions at the start, any snow that falls will immediately accumulate Sunday night. And the potential coastal flooding and likely high winds, especially at the coast are risks even if little snow.
 
Yep, so any delay in the warm-up could lead to a decent period of freezing rain - plus with cold conditions at the start, any snow that falls will immediately accumulate Sunday night. And the potential coastal flooding and likely high winds, especially at the coast are risks even if little snow.
What time are we thinking Sunday night
 
This is what the current track looks like for the winter storm coming for Sunday/Monday. A shift east would bring the snow line closer to the big cities east of i-95 Philly to Boston. Rather you see snow, ice or rain there will be strong damaging winds. Secure loose items this weekend and be prepared for possible power outages.

271855562_4879370268773187_4615121694772402584_n.jpg
 
What time are we thinking Sunday night
Some light snow could break out late Sunday afternoon everywhere with heavier precip arriving in the early evening (snow to sleet then rain likely along 95; snow inland) and the heaviest precip in the overnight timeframe until about sunrise on Monday (likely rain even a bit NW of 95 with mixed precip well inland); precip will likely continue until maybe noon on Monday, but with less intensity.
 
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If it weren't for the ensemble mean tracks being just off the coast with lots of snow for most and it being 4 days out still with a poorly sampled shortwave off the PacNW coast (introducing even more uncertainty into the forecast), I'd be saying this is basically a rainstorm for the coast and 95 with increasing amounts of snow as one goes NW of 95. If the models still show similar tracks and mostly rain for 95 for the 12Z runs tomorrow, when we'll have much better initial model conditions, then it'll likely be over for major snow for 95.

However, right now 2 of the 4 global models (GFS/CMC) have tracks that start near Cape Hatteras and end up well inland near Harrisburg, which is very unusual for a Miller A type winter storm, which usually originates from a low traversing the country and then heads towards the Gulf of Mexico and then towards the NC coast and these then usually go up the east coast as a nor’easter. This coast to inland track leads to a bit of snow to start and then mostly rain for 95 and some heavy snow and then mix/rain well inland of 95. The other two global models (Euro/UK) have the low going just a bit inland the whole way up from NC, over about Allentown, PA, leading to a small snowfall along 95 and heavier snow to sleet to rain inland, similar to the GFS/CMC, even though the tracks are different.

Furthermore, it’s very important to note that the ensemble forecasts for at least the GFS and Euro, where the models are run dozens of times with variation of the initial conditions to gauge sensitivity of the models to those initial conditions (since they’re often not known that well, especially in this case with the primary energy over the Pacific Ocean; see below for more) indicate that the ensemble mean track is offshore and much snowier for the 95 corridor/coast, which is highly unusual, as the ensemble mean track and the main operational model track aren’t usually that far apart and this indicates that there could be modeling issues with the operational model runs, which is why ensemble track forecasts are often used by pros at this point vs. any individual operational model run.

In addition, we’re still 4 days out and track errors at this point are at least 150 miles, so everything except a complete rainstorm for everyone and a complete miss for everyone are very much in play (and even a rainstorm and a miss are not totally out of the question, but are far less likely). Also, right now most of the models have heavy snows (and potential icing east of the Apps) down into GA/SC/NC/VA/MD (inland from the coast) on Sunday, which is typical for a "Miller A" type winter storm (the Superstorm, Blizzard of ’93 was a Miller A).

With regard to model accuracy at this point, the NHC forecast track error for fully formed tropical systems is within a circle of radius of 150 miles at 4 days and we're at about 4 days before the event here and the forecast error for a poorly sampled system currently in the Pacific right now, which will morph and possibly phase in various unpredictable ways over the next 4 days, is a bit higher than that. And for the GFS/CMC runs we'd need a shift of about 125 miles for heavy snow along 95 and we'd need a shift of maybe 50-75 miles for that for the Euro/UK. Doable, but not something that can be counted on, which is why this still looks like a wetter than whiter solution for the 95 corridor (and all wet for the coast).

One last point: no matter what, we're going to have an astronomical high tide on Monday, so if we do get a strong coastal storm, coastal erosion and minor to moderate coastal flooding could become an issue. Too early for model maps and stuff yet, IMO, but these are readily available in the storm threads on the weather boards linked below (or from Pivotal or Tropical Tidbits sites).

https://www.weather.gov/phi/

https://www.33andrain.com/topic/2076-116-17-high-impact-winter-weather-event/page/42/

https://www.americanwx.com/bb/topic...gh-tide/page/17/?tab=comments#comment-6284225
The 12Z models (GFS, CMC, UK; Euro at 1 pm) are coming in similar to last night's 0Z runs, although the primary energy for our storm was not actually on shore yet as of 12Z (7 am EST), so it wasn't well sampled from radiosondes, but the model runs did incorporate the NOAA flight data from last night, which diminishes the uncertainty some.

Bottom line is it's looking like the storm will take a track from the FL panhandle to the NC coast and then hook inland somewhat into eastern PA, which is pretty unusual, but when every model shows it (despite the ensembles still showing a more eastward storm track along the coast, which would be snowier) for a couple of runs, then the chances of a more eastward track become pretty low (but not zero).

This track would likely result in some initial snow for most early Sunday evening (an inch or less and it might even start as rain near the coast), before warmer air comes in aloft changing the precip to sleet along the 95 corridor, where a few hours of sleet (maybe 1/2" - which is the equivalent mass of 1.5" of snow) could fall if the surface cold air holds on long enough. It's possible there will be some freezing rain before the final transition to rain for the 95 corridor, but after that the bulk of the storm should be rain (3/4-1") and it's also possible the 95 corridor will see very little frozen.

20+ miles NW of 95, especially N of 78, there could be 2-4" of snow before a change to sleet and eventually rain, while areas well NW, like the Poconos/Sussex/NW Passaic and the western Hudson Valley (NW Rockland/Orange and N of there into the Catskills) could see mostly snow with some sleet, but possibly no rain and could get 6-10" of snow/sleet - obviously if they change earlier to sleet/rain snowfall would be less even there. Jackpots will likely be central/western PA/NY where 10-14" is likely. We're still 3.5 days out, so this could all change some, but it's looking fairly bleak for snow for the big cities along 95.

And as mentioned above, there could be minor to maybe moderate coastal flooding (which happens a few times per year - this is NOT a Sandy or even Irene situation) and high winds, especially near/at the coast (gusts to 50 or maybe even 60 mph Monday morning).

Edit: 12Z Euro came in a few hours quicker, which led to an inch or two of snow along 95 and a bit more snow just NW of 95 (since the cold air hasn't left yet), with the 6" line from about Frenchtown to Morristown to Nyack, which is only ~25 miles NW of 95; there would likely be some sleet too, but that doesn't show on the Pivotal maps, fyi. As of now, it's the snowiest model for our area.
 
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Got the answer from a met on 33andrain as I had no idea - I was told the OK comes from Brookhaven Labs and they add X to a lot of office names, hence OKX...
Thanks #s - I appreciate the info and the weather threads!
 
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Holy crap, look at all this snow before the storm! Still trying to figure out why they'd put out a snowfall map through Sunday morning, when no snow is expected...

StormTotalSnowWeb.jpg
You missed it...the roadways are going to get hammered with 18inches..
 
Good afternoon! Here is an update on the east coast storm system expected to impact the area late this weekend. In short, this has the potential to be a strong wind event for portions of the area, especially near the coast, with accumulating snow possible farther north and west. Precipitation may be heavy however the latest indications continue to favor the snow changing to rain over a large portion of the area with a period of sleet and freezing rain also possible.

For the latest forecast details please visit weather.gov/phi. You can enter your city or zip code in the upper left for a location specific forecast but there are many more products here as well including the Forecasters Discussion under the "Forecasts" tab.

Have a great evening!

 
Holy crap, look at all this snow before the storm! Still trying to figure out why they'd put out a snowfall map through Sunday morning, when no snow is expected...

StormTotalSnowWeb.jpg
They've had it up since yesterday, both Philly, NYC and the 2 I look at down in VA.
 
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