OT: Yardley/Newtown PA Home Soon to Market

[RUnTeX]

Cant believe some cant resist but to make it a political thing.

I have heard good things about Yardley- Good luck out there. May be tough to find a good for sale by owner though.
Interesting about the market- kind of sux that I hit it at the wrong time but felt like the right time when we sold. We sold our house in Mahwah in Jan 2020. Right before we understood COVID- so we sold and were happy to. We got a good number. But then, Feb/March hits- our first thought was- "Damn, we sold just in time. Would suck to still be on the market when no one is coming out to look at houses"

Yeah- right...We had EXACTLY the type of home NYC Millennial families with young kids were looking for.
Good School System, Close to everything, 5 BR's beautiful park like Acre of land with Pool, turn key luxury.

In retrospect, late spring going into summer 2020 (once the initial March-thru-May lockdowns started lifting) was the one year where it ended up not being a big deal if you weren't listed by Feb/March (and potentially worse if it negatively impacted by increased DOM as the lockdowns continued). Folks actually wouldn't have been behind the curve as they would be most years even if you got it listed sometime during the summer or later.

But maybe the silver lining is that any associated stress of having the process drag out was avoided. If you sold without taking an unnecessary discount, it's great to be over and done with.

 

[yesrutgers01]

In retrospect, late spring going into summer 2020 (once the initial March-thru-May lockdowns started lifting) was the one year where it ended up not being a big deal if you weren't listed by Feb/March (and potentially worse if it negatively impacted by increased DOM as the lockdowns continued). Folks actually wouldn't have been behind the curve as they would be most years even if you got it listed sometime during the summer or later.

But maybe the silver lining is that any associated stress of having the process drag out was avoided. If you sold without taking an unnecessary discount, it's great to be over and done with.

It had still taken 8 months to sell. We had an issue that in the surrounding 20 miles or so- a bunch of high end "neighborhoods" went up. People saw brand new 4/5 BR for 1-1.8 mil and were going that way instead of a custom built home that was 12 years old. Even though we had more land, not cookie cutter and was custom built rather than "spec"...
It was getting tiring to continually hear these people come in and try to compare a home with less than 1/4 acre, no pool, less Sq Ft and no custom features or even know the difference between poured concrete vs block foundation. We got our price but if it was still there in late March early April, most likely would have gotten another 150-200k for it.

 

[e5fdny]

LOL

Tell us about all the suburban towns with 771k median home value.

In NJ there are a few- but none you'd ever have a nice word for

I can think of two right off the top of my head.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I can think of two right off the top of my head.

I would think Alpine would be up there. Avalon and Stone Harbor, Wyckoff, Ridgewood just to name a few. Would be surprised if Franklin Lakes wasn’t up in the 700+ median price either

 

[NotInRHouse]

I can think of two right off the top of my head.

There's more than 2. There's plenty in NJ.

But it would defeat the argument of "cities are dumps" and "muh private school" to talk about them, never mind the never ending crusade by some board residents who have only lived in NJ to insist that "everyone" is in fact leaving NJ.

Unless you need a tropical environment, I'm honestly not sure what living situation you could not find in NJ. Urban, suburban, rural, mountains, beaches, every cultural niche, it's there.

 

[yesrutgers01]

There's more than 2. There's plenty in NJ.

But it would defeat the argument of "cities are dumps" and "muh private school" to talk about them, never mind the never ending crusade by some board residents who have only lived in NJ to insist that "everyone" is in fact leaving NJ.

Unless you need a tropical environment, I'm honestly not sure what living situation you could not find in NJ. Urban, suburban, rural, mountains, beaches, every cultural niche, it's there.

NJ and NY are two of the most livable States in the USA for all the things you mention. NJ and NY ruined it with taxes and cost of living.

 

[NotInRHouse]

NJ and NY are two of the most livable States in the USA for all the things you mention. NJ and NY ruined it with taxes and cost of living.

The COL is high, but the COL is high literally anywhere with demand.

Taxes, actually I was reading today that WV is offering 12k to move there. Over 60k in income is taxed at 6.5%. In NJ it's 6.37 or less under 500k. NY is 6.41%. So I think it's kind of a misnomer.

Even in TX which has no income tax, property taxes are comparable. A condo in Austin at same price point is same property taxes for what I pay in JC, and we keep the power on.

If you're a millionaire, maybe it makes a difference, but at that point you could set up shop somewhere else 180 days a year. If taxes were everything a lot more people even within the Northeast would move to PA (3.07% flat tax) or DE (no sales tax and property taxes very low).

 

[yesrutgers01]

The COL is high, but the COL is high literally anywhere with demand.

Taxes, actually I was reading today that WV is offering 12k to move there. Over 60k in income is taxed at 6.5%. In NJ it's 6.37 or less under 500k. NY is 6.41%. So I think it's kind of a misnomer.

Even in TX which has no income tax, property taxes are comparable. A condo in Austin at same price point is same property taxes for what I pay in JC, and we keep the power on.

If you're a millionaire, maybe it makes a difference, but at that point you could set up shop somewhere else 180 days a year. If taxes were everything a lot more people even within the Northeast would move to PA (3.07% flat tax) or DE (no sales tax and property taxes very low).

When I speak of taxes, it is property tax, not income or sales.
The income tax and sales tax figure more into COL...which adds up as well.
Can I find a 300k home and live with very little expense in NJ...sure I could. But no offense to anyone else, that is not what I worked so hard for.
but let’s say I’m looking for a home in the 750-900k range. Which is reasonable as I need space and want to be on water.
taxes are going to be 15-20k
The same house in NC, would only cost 500-600k with 3-4K taxes
That is huge for anyone.

mad for the millionaire comment- to just buy a 2nd home and not care, you really have to be in the multi million area when you live around here.
personally- to retire in NJ- with the lifestyle I want and worked for. I need my house paid for and at least $2.5m between savings and investment

 

[fsg2]

There's more than 2. There's plenty in NJ.

But it would defeat the argument of "cities are dumps" and "muh private school" to talk about them, never mind the never ending crusade by some board residents who have only lived in NJ to insist that "everyone" is in fact leaving NJ.

Unless you need a tropical environment, I'm honestly not sure what living situation you could not find in NJ. Urban, suburban, rural, mountains, beaches, every cultural niche, it's there.

No hater, but to answer:

Mountains.

Less humidity/dry heat.

Less pop density.

 

[NotInRHouse]

When I speak of taxes, it is property tax, not income or sales.
The income tax and sales tax figure more into COL...which adds up as well.
Can I find a 300k home and live with very little expense in NJ...sure I could. But no offense to anyone else, that is not what I worked so hard for.
but let’s say I’m looking for a home in the 750-900k range. Which is reasonable as I need space and want to be on water.
taxes are going to be 15-20k
The same house in NC, would only cost 500-600k with 3-4K taxes
That is huge for anyone.

mad for the millionaire comment- to just buy a 2nd home and not care, you really have to be in the multi million area when you live around here.
personally- to retire in NJ- with the lifestyle I want and worked for. I need my house paid for and at least $2.5m between savings and investment

Property taxes are higher, but so is the corresponding value.

Also, mostly- but not always- property taxes in NJ are higher because of good schools. There are places with lower taxes if you don't care about that. NC is not known for good public K-12. States that are tend to also have higher property taxes.

If your budget is 750-900k, you could probably buy something in NJ and another state splitting that difference. Again, it's lifestyle. I know people without kids or with older kids that live in NJ half the year, and then FL or abroad the other half. Depends what you want. If you're OK having a condo or 55+ on this side it's doable.

In Bergen County, yeah it'd be harder. But central NJ you can get a pretty nice house for 500-600k in good school district even now in the craziness. Again it's relative to your requirements.

Personally if I had a kid I'd be leery of a public school in NC so that's an added cost. I'd rather pay more taxes here. Also, I'd rather live in an urban environment, and their cities are not cutting it for me. But if someone didn't care about that, sure it's great.

 

[NotInRHouse]

No hater, but to answer:

Mountains.

Less humidity/dry heat.

Less pop density.

We have mountains. Not the Rockies, and I am not a skier to be fair. Most skiers I know though are OK with the distance to Hunter or Vermont.

Humidity is unfortunately worse everywhere these days. Even here we're losing seasons.

Density...we do have the Pine Barrens. Lots of NW NJ also is pretty open, and definitely more mountainous up there too. But yeah, if you hate density, definitely stay away from my neck of the woods which is literally the densest place in the US.

 

[fsg2]

We have mountains. Not the Rockies, and I am not a skier to be fair. Most skiers I know though are OK with the distance to Hunter or Vermont.

Humidity is unfortunately worse everywhere these days. Even here we're losing seasons.

Density...we do have the Pine Barrens. Lots of NW NJ also is pretty open, and definitely more mountainous up there too. But yeah, if you hate density, definitely stay away from my neck of the woods which is literally the densest place in the US.

NJ has mountains the way Nebraska has beaches (on lakes), lol. They're kind of hood enough if you already live there, but no one's moving there with that in mind.

That was a driving factor when I moved. Now an even bigger factor is the overcrowding feel ...sure you can escape it in certain corners, you'll just have to battle traffic to get there.

 

[JMORC2003]

I have a 4 bedroom 3 bath 2200 expanded cape on 1,2 acres 10 mins from river near Washington Crossing and pay $7,200. Not sure Yardlee or Newtown that much better.
Then again there are plenty of other considerations to weigh.

Sorry... I'm interpreting this as $7,200 is a lot. I'm teeing up an addition to my cape in Cranford that'll be a 3 bed, 2 bath on .25 acres and I'm anticipating $11,500 in all my estimates. I gotta get out of NJ.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I hope sojo got his answer as we always go off track a bit...lol

 

[yesrutgers01]

He got confused and ended up buying 14 Honda Accords instead

And that was after a huge argument over Audi’s and BMW’s lol

 

[SHUSource]

He got confused and ended up buying 14 Honda Accords instead

As a Yardley resident with an Accord parked in the driveway, I'll assure him he could do worse!

 

[NotInRHouse]

NJ has mountains the way Nebraska has beaches (on lakes), lol. They're kind of hood enough if you already live there, but no one's moving there with that in mind.

That was a driving factor when I moved. Now an even bigger factor is the overcrowding feel ...sure you can escape it in certain corners, you'll just have to battle traffic to get there.

No one moves to NJ for the mountains, true.

I don't know about traffic in far south Jersey, like Cumberland County, say. GSP/NJTPK/80/78 of course have. Not sure about that corner though.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I hope sojo got his answer as we always go off track a bit...lol

I think we can all agree he's OK to move there so long as he doesn't let his kids go to college at that cult in Central PA.

 

[daveo13]

Going to list our house in Monroe Twp and downsize. Figure this is the best time to do it.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Cant believe some cant resist but to make it a political thing.

I have heard good things about Yardley- Good luck out there. May be tough to find a good for sale by owner though.
Interesting about the market- kind of sux that I hit it at the wrong time but felt like the right time when we sold. We sold our house in Mahwah in Jan 2020. Right before we understood COVID- so we sold and were happy to. We got a good number. But then, Feb/March hits- our first thought was- "Damn, we sold just in time. Would suck to still be on the market when no one is coming out to look at houses"

Yeah- right...We had EXACTLY the type of home NYC Millennial families with young kids were looking for.
Good School System, Close to everything, 5 BR's beautiful park like Acre of land with Pool, turn key luxury.

Prices in mahwah up around 15% year over year. But impossible to predict these things man

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

NJ and NY are two of the most livable States in the USA for all the things you mention. NJ and NY ruined it with taxes and cost of living.

There is serious movement from nyc to fla in particular right now. Wsj and nyt are even admitting it. Its an issue and its almost entirely because of the city tax being close to 15%

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

The COL is high, but the COL is high literally anywhere with demand.

Taxes, actually I was reading today that WV is offering 12k to move there. Over 60k in income is taxed at 6.5%. In NJ it's 6.37 or less under 500k. NY is 6.41%. So I think it's kind of a misnomer.

Even in TX which has no income tax, property taxes are comparable. A condo in Austin at same price point is same property taxes for what I pay in JC, and we keep the power on.

If you're a millionaire, maybe it makes a difference, but at that point you could set up shop somewhere else 180 days a year. If taxes were everything a lot more people even within the Northeast would move to PA (3.07% flat tax) or DE (no sales tax and property taxes very low).

Nyc has a city tax fyi.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

When do you think prices will normalize again in the tri-state area? I know you’re probably more bullish than most but everything is somewhat cyclical. Seems like lumber/construction costs for new builds would need to drop and taxes would need to go up probably? I feel like more people who moved to NJ/PA will relocate when offices require them to come back in person too and they start to experience NJT.

Few things

1) interest rates remaining low have propped up the market
2) if there is not a dumping of homes on the market in June after everyone is vaccinated it tells me low inventory is here to stay as the narrative of older people waiting til vaccines are rolled out before they list would be false. I think the narrative is false fyi
3) you nailed it with lumber. Between the red tape, regs, cost of land, construction and labor right now its not profitable to build which will keepinventory low

my only question is, when does the flow of people from the city slow down? I thought it would slow down months ago but boy was I wrong. People are truly fleeing the city and younger than ever before. Couples used to have a kid, stay in the city til the kid was 2 then come to the burbs before kid #2, now theyre leaving before even having kids.

im beginning to slowly transition out of brokerage now that my investment properties pay me really solid 5-figure monthly income but I’m still gonna probably sell a house a month just to keep up with things and because of the client base ive built. My investment properties tell a fascinating story too, people either cant find a house/are being priced out. Our occupancies are insane. 98-99% and 100% pre-leased with wait list. Granted this is in Dallas and Phoenix but we are raising rents 5-6% with zero push back. We’ll see what happens

 

[RUskoolie]

Friend of mine has a house in Cherry Hill that he thought was worth 750k I convinced him to list it on MLS. Listed for 800k. Sold for 850k, no appraisal.

These are the affects of fed screwing with interest rates and pouring gasoline on inflation with reckless stimulus, it fvcks everything up.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Big thing with many people moving out of the city is that many companies have decided to make WFH optional for many employees that used to be required to come into the office.
but, the trick that keeps them in some of the more expensive areas is that they always want the option to commute in if the change jobs.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Big thing with many people moving out of the city is that many companies have decided to make WFH optional for many employees that used to be required to come into the office.
but, the trick that keeps them in some of the more expensive areas is that they always want the option to commute in if the change jobs.

+1
WFH is allowing companies to leave cities or downsize their office space. Even many Wall Street firms are adopting this. Many of these jobs will never return to cities. With less people working in cities, just think of all the support businesses that will have to deal with reduced customers. Many of them are goners.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Nyc has a city tax fyi.

I am aware but if you live in NJ you do not pay it.

 

[Joey Bags]

Anyone think NJ is headed towards a demographics disaster over the next 1-3 decades? The under 40 crowd are leaving the area by the tens of thousands and I’m about to join them. Why on earth would i want to pay these prices or get involved with these bidding wars right now? I can double my square footage and keep my same salary moving to VA or NC. Not everyone is pulling 400k+ joint incomes at 30 years old.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Anyone think NJ is headed towards a demographics disaster over the next 1-3 decades? The under 40 crowd are leaving the area by the tens of thousands and I’m about to join them. Why on earth would i want to pay these prices or get involved with these bidding wars right now? I can double my square footage and keep my same salary moving to VA or NC. Not everyone is pulling 400k+ joint incomes at 30 years old.

Cost of living really is getting out of control. A couple making $250k jointly is finding it tough to get by here. Im working with clients who make $250-$300k and theyre having trouble getting houses. Now it could be short term with a crazy market and 20+ offers on homes and 6-figures over asking and waiving appraisal and inspections not even working due to 100% cash buyers coming out from the city but youre so on the ball, younger crowd is headed south. Ive had so many friends who moved to florida in particular over the past year. Delray, Jupiter, Boca and Miami. Had some friends move to Charlotte and Raleigh as well.

a girl I used to talk to left hoboken for Raleigh, has an apartment in Raleigh for $1400/month that would be $2800-3000/month in hoboken. Makes the same $ she made in NYC/NJ

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Does it ever actually make sense to waive appraisal and inspection? I feel like I’d rather just wait it out

If you dont do it in this market you’ll be homeless. It’s really hard to explain how much of a sellers market this is. There’s never been anything like it. It is truly insane.

With that said, it would only make sense if youre in a bidding war, if youre bidding against yourself and no competition, no point.

 

[Joey Bags]

Cost of living really is getting out of control. A couple making $250k jointly is finding it tough to get by here. Im working with clients who make $250-$300k and theyre having trouble getting houses. Now it could be short term with a crazy market and 20+ offers on homes and 6-figures over asking and waiving appraisal and inspections not even working due to 100% cash buyers coming out from the city but youre so on the ball, younger crowd is headed south. Ive had so many friends who moved to florida in particular over the past year. Delray, Jupiter, Boca and Miami. Had some friends move to Charlotte and Raleigh as well.

a girl I used to talk to left hoboken for Raleigh, has an apartment in Raleigh for $1400/month that would be $2800-3000/month in hoboken. Makes the same $ she made in NYC/NJ

Why exactly are so many people willing to pay 800k for a house that went for 550k a few years ago? Seems like an idiotic investment choice.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Why exactly are so many people willing to pay 800k for a house that went for 550k a few years ago? Seems like an idiotic investment choice.

I just sold my place and im renting in the interim.

and you know the answer to that, naturally everyone thinks prices will only go up. When they do drop its gonna put alot of people underwater and imp further restrict supply as no one will want to sell at a loss which could in theory help keep prices high-ish.

this is a controversial opinion of mine but imo your principal residence shouldnt be viewed as an investment. And if you ever do buy rather than rent put down the absolute minimum downpayment. This is a vid i made for some of my students

 

[tom1944]

Many people saw their parents entire life savings come from the equity they built up in a paid off house. That is one reason people want to own their own home

It is a different time now

 

[tom1944]

Question are townhomes and condominiums in the suburbs seeing the same increase in prices

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Question are townhomes and condominiums in the suburbs seeing the same increase in prices

Nope, stay away. The reason I say this is COAH + people wanting the true suburban life with yards etc.

Why COAH? Alot of towns in NJ are far behind their mandated amount of affordable housing. Therefore theyre basically being forced to allow builders to come in as “interveners” and propose large multi-family housing developments on lands not zoned for it and the towns are obligated to approve if theyre behind. For example, my small hometown of Roseland was behind about 360 affordable housing units. It’s a town with a population of about 5,500 +/- . Obviously no builder will only build affordable so they often propose projects with 10% affordable units AND also apply for abatements and PILOT’s and the towns have no choice but to accept.

the above is an issue for towns/condo and townhome owners for a few reasons laid out below.

1) if you have a townhome/condo built in the 80’s/90’s or early 2000’s and you go to sell when 1,000 brand new ones just hit the market, good luck. Simple function of supply and demand

2) infrastructure: these towns werent built to support that many people. Schools arent big enough, not enough police, fire, teachers, but more important the sewer systems and water supply were not intended to handle that type of capacity.

the above is what trump acting like a caveman meant when he said “THEY WANT TO RUIN THE SUBURBS”. If you had a clue how to articulate it, the message wouldve come through as reasonable and rather than racist.

 

[tom1944]

Nope, stay away. The reason I say this is COAH + people wanting the true suburban life with yards etc.

Why COAH? Alot of towns in NJ are far behind their mandated amount of affordable housing. Therefore theyre basically being forced to allow builders to come in as “interveners” and propose large multi-family housing developments on lands not zoned for it and the towns are obligated to approve if theyre behind. For example, my small hometown of Roseland was behind about 360 affordable housing units. It’s a town with a population of about 5,500 +/- . Obviously no builder will only build affordable so they often propose projects with 10% affordable units AND also apply for abatements and PILOT’s and the towns have no choice but to accept.

the above is an issue for towns/condo and townhome owners for a few reasons laid out below.

1) if you have a townhome/condo built in the 80’s/90’s or early 2000’s and you go to sell when 1,000 brand new ones just hit the market, good luck. Simple function of supply and demand

2) infrastructure: these towns werent built to support that many people. Schools arent big enough, not enough police, fire, teachers, but more important the sewer systems and water supply were not intended to handle that type of capacity.

the above is what trump acting like a caveman meant when he said “THEY WANT TO RUIN THE SUBURBS”. If you had a clue how to articulate it, the message wouldve come through as reasonable and rather than racist.

In the 1980's I worked in Roseland and they were building a project with affordable housing on Eagle Rock Avenue. I had a discussion with the tax assessor and said I was surprised there was not a big uproar. He told me it was no big deal because all the affordable units were being sold to Roseland residents that had their own businesses and reported low income so people were fine with it.

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

Just giving some facts for those "looking for that option". Cities are in decay. Folks need to do their HW and understand that society has changed. Look at NJ cities and compare to nice suburban towns - crime, medium home value, schools, etc. Night and day difference.

You’re of the “buy high” mindset huh?

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

But consistent, with destroying America..

Because that’s what’s happening.

 

[tom1944]

I just sold my place and im renting in the interim.

and you know the answer to that, naturally everyone thinks prices will only go up. When they do drop its gonna put alot of people underwater and imp further restrict supply as no one will want to sell at a loss which could in theory help keep prices high-ish.

this is a controversial opinion of mine but imo your principal residence shouldnt be viewed as an investment. And if you ever do buy rather than rent put down the absolute minimum downpayment. This is a vid i made for some of my students

View embedded media

So I watched the video and I have to ask why you did not offset the investment gain of putting down less money against the investment gain of investing the extra $600 a month?

I also have to mention as a conservative investor when I am told to expect 15% gain year over year I get leery. It all my well be true but I never go into any investment expecting that return consistently over time without thinking it comes with great risk. So before I would invest in that vehicle I would have to have other assets diversified among a number of other investments.

 

[Knight Shift]

So I watched the video and I have to ask why you did not offset the investment gain of putting down less money against the investment gain of investing the extra $600 a month?

I also have to mention as a conservative investor when I am told to expect 15% gain year over year I get leery. It all my well be true but I never go into any investment expecting that return consistently over time without thinking it comes with great risk. So before I would invest in that vehicle I would have to have other assets diversified among a number of other investments.

Agreed. But this was a sure thing: