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Our NJ upper middle class to affluent kids

The biggest difference is distance. People are willing to pay up for the going away experience. Because they are upper middle class, they can justify the additional cost. My preference is not to send my kids to a school that is 40 min drive from where they grew up.
 
Whether racism comes into play as far as college choices and to what extent is another debate for another time, but the percentage of white students from our division of the B1G is as follows:

PSU 79.2%
MSU 79.1%
OSU 77.9%
UM 67.1%
MD 55.4%
RU 47.0%


One of the principal reasons for the disarity is that Rutgers is very easily commutable from many urban centers with immigrant and other non-white populations. Also Rutgers is easier to get into that all of those schools I believe in terms % acceptance rates which helps first generation Americans and inner city kids whose access to private tutors and other aids that improve high school performance is limited.
Is there really a meaningful difference between us and Maryland...and some NJ kids choose Maryland over RU...

The other B1G states also don't have the diversity the Northeast does, aside from maybe Illinois or Minnesota.


Yes there is a big difference between. RU and MD both perceived and actual. MD's campus is much nicer and more user friendly and even when it wasn't as good as it is today, MD always got a higher percentage of upper middle class kids than RU and now that % is much much higher.
 
One of the principal reasons for the disarity is that Rutgers is very easily commutable from many urban centers with immigrant and other non-white populations. Also Rutgers is easier to get into that all of those schools I believe in terms % acceptance rates which helps first generation Americans and inner city kids whose access to private tutors and other aids that improve high school performance is limited.



Yes there is a big difference between. RU and MD both perceived and actual. MD's campus is much nicer and more user friendly and even when it wasn't as good as it is today, MD always got a higher percentage of upper middle class kids than RU and now that % is much much higher.

Agree...the campus is beautiful and MD at least gives the impression of competence to the average person with consistently winning BBall and other programs.
 
The biggest difference is distance. People are willing to pay up for the going away experience. Because they are upper middle class, they can justify the additional cost.

Many in all classes have the same wish (low,middle,high income), but yes, its much easier to do the more $$ you have.

Huge advantage for NJ Families is that there are sooo many out-of-state Univ that are just 3-4 hours away...giving them so many options to choose from...while in much larger states...3-4 hours away just get you to a close in-state school.
 
TCNJ also has a upper class looking campus.

Is there any reason for Rutgers to have an ugly campus? Or is that also elitist?

NIRH, you just listed three schools in Rutgers that a 1700 is very much realistic to get in with. Please don't forget that SAS, MGSA, and SEBS are bigger than the more "selective" schools.
 
I find this very interesting. I can definitely see the upper middle class kid looking at the niceties on campus. Would such a kid want to live in the River dorms, BAMM dorms, or the quad if another school had more modern dorms / apartments with private sleeping quarters, allowed students to have a car, and many amenities Rutgers doesn't offer? Back in the 90s the dorms didn't even have cable TV at Rutgers while many other schools did. It was one of the reasons I moved to an off campus apartment.
Have you been on campus the last few years? Get a walk through of Livi Apartments, you would be shocked how nice it is. Granite counter tops, stainless steel appliances, private bedrooms, teaching kitchens, workout rooms etc. Go voer to the new dorm at Busch, same. Last but not least the new Honors College dorm. Second to none.
 
I feel like Rutgers simply accepts too many people. A 1700 on the SAT doesn't cut it at most other state flagships, but it's enough for Rutgers. That is, IMO, the biggest issue.
I am pretty sure the avg for RU is now in the 1900 range. It is above 2200 for Honors college. Not as easy as you might think anymore, unless you are from NB, Camden or Newark.

There is an articel out there stating the new higher standards.
 
Back in the late '70's when I was there, I considered the buses a fact of life. Certainly not an impediment. I was accepted at Maryland, but other than the money, the main reason I didn't go there was that Rt 1 runs right through the middle of campus.
I think, as some posters have touched on, the preponderance of private schools in the Northeast is a factor. Here in GA, other than Emory, private schools aren't a factor. Many HS students go to other state universities in the South, because, the only major school option is UGA, which has also gotten tougher to get in to. Lots of kids go to USCe, Clemson, NC State, Auburn, Alabama, FSU, UF, etc. Georgia State, Georgia Southern and Kennesaw State are becoming more of an option than they used to be.
 
Ocean City HS just announced the top 10 seniors academically and where they are heading to college. These kids are the best and brightest and #1 and #9 are heading to RU. http://ocnjdaily.com/ochs-class-of-2015-top-10-academic-students/

I know my niece who was #1 in her class at one of the best HS's in NJ, Marine Academy of Science and Technology, went to RU. She could have gone anywhere and my brother could afford it. She went to RU because they gave her a free ride and the program she wanted, something to do with genetics, was one of the best. She is now pursuing her masters at UNC, another free ride plus cost of living stipend. Her brother was in the same boat and could have gone to any college he wanted but chose RU. He is now working at Google
 
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Many HS students go to other state universities in the South, because, the only major school option is UGA, which has also gotten tougher to get in to. Lots of kids go to USCe, Clemson, NC State, Auburn, Alabama, FSU, UF, etc. Georgia State, Georgia Southern and Kennesaw State are becoming more of an option than they used to be.

FYI, Georgia Institute of Technology (Georgia Tech) is a public university...and much higher ranked the Univ of Georgia and even RU.
 
This article on elite hiring pretty much sums up the problems presented in this thread, the 8% giving thread, and the older thread on should I hire a Rutgers intern. If you want an elite job, you need to go to an elite school and that is the crux of the issue for many affluent and upper middle class students and their families.

Rutgers is probably better off continuing to serve as a "gateway" school to elite professional and graduate programs while working on developing student and alumni engagement and loyalty, so that we have more folks like Greg Brown or Gary Rodkin willing to give back to the university after substantial success. Even with an influx of upper middle class students, I don't see Rutgers becoming a target for top firms. We need to do what we've always done, admit the best and close to best students from a broad socioeconomic spectrum, and we as alumni need to step up and support the school, students and each other any way we can.

How the Hiring Process Favors Elites: http://www.theatlantic.com/business...-how-the-hiring-process-favors-elites/394166/
 
Great to see two of the top ten going to RU, makes me proud.
Personally, if I visited a campus with my child and there was an obvious diversity swing one way or another, it would bother me.
I went to a 60/40 majority white high school, I considered that significant diversity and considered it one of the biggest advantages I had when I left home to play ball at 18 years old. Oddly enough, I found myself playing with a minimum of 50% black and Hispanic, I was perfectly comfortable, while other we're not.
 
Looking at the article for OC HS (http://ocnjdaily.com/ochs-class-of-2015-top-10-academic-students/):
1 - RU (RU may still have the program where they give scholarships to valedictorians)
2- UPenn
3-Wagner
4-Lafayette
5-American
6-Univ of MD
7-Catholic University
8-Univ of VT
9- RU
10- UPenn

Also interesting is that the top 8 students are female. The 1st male student is #9

Some of the students are going to good Private schools (UPenn, American, and Lafayette) so can't fault them. 1 is going to a religious based school which may align with her values. Wagner is a small private school in SI that is not the academic equal to Rutgers. For those going to VT and MD this is part of the issue since academically RU is on par if not better but these students decided to opt for another school. I do wonder if some of these students are getting grants and scholarships at these other schools that makes the cost similar to being in state at Rutgers.

I will assume all of the top 10 applied to Rutgers, even if it was just as a 2nd choice school. RU may need to survey the students that opted for another school to find out why they chose the other school over Rutgers.
 
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One of the principal reasons for the disarity is that Rutgers is very easily commutable from many urban centers with immigrant and other non-white populations. Also Rutgers is easier to get into that all of those schools I believe in terms % acceptance rates which helps first generation Americans and inner city kids whose access to private tutors and other aids that improve high school performance is limited.



Yes there is a big difference between. RU and MD both perceived and actual. MD's campus is much nicer and more user friendly and even when it wasn't as good as it is today, MD always got a higher percentage of upper middle class kids than RU and now that % is much much higher.

Just FYI to the poster above - SAS is definitely bigger than the others - in fact it makes up about 2/3rds of RU-NB undergrads. But the order after that is
BUsiness, Engineering, SEBS - these are all close enough that they probably change in various years.

Then a big gap and Pharmacy and MGSA. Then another big gap and Labor Relations and Public Policy.
 
RU final-
In NJ going away to school is inherent, it's a basically a given for families that can afford it. I don't think there's malice towards Rutgers or they think it's not a good school, it just is...I don't even think it's thought about. "why not apply to RU" truthfully, never thought about it, is about right.
 
Yes they are. In Florida, we get our poor to buy lottery tickets to fund our kids college education to our great flagship state university. In NJ,they pay high taxes to teach their kids to count to 100 and learn their ABC's then send their kids to mediocre overpriced private schools or out of state universities for college.
Good synopsis
 
RU85
I've heard bad things about Florida public schools? any truth?

I can't speak for Florida schools specifically but in my career I have worked with individuals from all over the country and world. Many are from the areas that we consider to be bad for education because they do not pay as much in tax dollars to their schools. Many are just as bright and intelligent as those from the northeast. They have achieved similar success in business as well. While we pay the most in taxes for our public K-12 schools I personally do not think kids from states where we consider the schools bad are at that much of a disadvantage.

Below I have examples of the top 10 NJ districts, list of states education ranking, and then an example for Arizona. Arizona was ranked 43rd with NJ 1st. Scottsdale is in the top 10 for AZ as is Ho-Ho-Kus in NJ (both are 7th in their state).

Looking at taxes for similar priced houses:
- Hohokus - 3 beds 1.5 baths with 1344 sq ft listed for 550k pays $7000 a year in taxes (per zillow)
- Scottsdale - 5 beds 3 baths with 3000 sq ft listed for 549k pays $2500 a year in taxes (per zillow)

If someone on this board has an elementary school child in Ho-Ho-kus with a good friend / family member with a similarly aged kid in Scottsdale I suspect that in 20 years both kids will be at the same level educationally and career-wise. I also suspect that both kids will be equally qualified to apply to and get into similar colleges.

Top 10 public schools in NJ:
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/nj/schools/

List of top states for education (NJ is #1):
http://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-best-schools/5335/

List of top 10 public schools in AZ:
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/az/schools/
 
Vermont has long been a somewhat popular choice for Jersey kids.

A university, but one that's a fraction of the size of RU with bureaucracy and red tape similarly reduced. Not quite RU academically but not too far behind at the undergraduate level. A magnet for skiers.

And NO buses!!
 
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Forgot to follow up on this. Not to get too personal, but was curious to know if Zappa or his immediate family sent any kids to Rutgers? Or other schools?

I'm pretty sure that Zappa mentioned earlier that he went straight to work from high school. Of course, how jobs go his was a pretty cool one.
 
I'm pretty sure that Zappa mentioned earlier that he went straight to work from high school. Of course, how jobs go his was a pretty cool one.

BigLou, read it again, please. I was asking if Zappa sent any of his kid's to RU or if any of his immediate family's kid's were sent to RU. Or if they went elsewhere, which begs the question: "why not RU?"

I'm not being snarky, just am genuinely interested since he was the OP.

Zappa? Any insights to share?
 
I just think :many NJ residents feel their kids are too good to go to RU and can afford to send them elsewhere.
Maybe even bad mouthing RU and influencing others decisions about sending their kid to RU, instead of paying out of state or private college tuition prices..
With parents that can afford to pay the price looking down on Rutgers as a place to send their kids, those in their immediate circle might feel they are better than RU speak out against a RU education to those that they know .
Making more people that can afford to send their kids elsewhere, look down on Rutgers as a place for their child.
Reputations , deserved or not, are hard to get rid of and no one wants to look like they are willing to accept less then the best for their children,
so probably conversations about going to RU are one sided, but not in RU's favor

Zap shown a perfect example about how many feel about their kids going to RU when he stated :
>In my circles, if a parent said his kid is going to RU, the immediate question would be why there? Sorry, but it is what it is. I don't think that happens in Michigan or Ohio....it would be more like, great, wonderful, cool...not here<

Zap also put it into the proper perspective when he said this about some people's feelings on choosing a college :
"This is an excuse that applies everywhere, only difference is the local institution is not held in lower regard, like RU is, it's simply considered a choice. Here if you choose RU, it's mocked."
 
One of the principal reasons for the disarity is that Rutgers is very easily commutable from many urban centers with immigrant and other non-white populations. Also Rutgers is easier to get into that all of those schools I believe in terms % acceptance rates which helps first generation Americans and inner city kids whose access to private tutors and other aids that improve high school performance is limited.



Yes there is a big difference between. RU and MD both perceived and actual. MD's campus is much nicer and more user friendly and even when it wasn't as good as it is today, MD always got a higher percentage of upper middle class kids than RU and now that % is much much higher.

ON THIS SAME PAGE I provided statistics showing it's harder to get into RU than TTFP. Now it's your turn, FOR ONCE, EVER, to actually link and provide proof of what you're talking about. Go ahead. I want to see how it's harder to get into Ohio State and MSU than Rutgers. We all eagerly await the proof.

Oh wait, actually MSU has a higher acceptance rate even using your made up standard instead of SAT scores because that's a loser for you. Oh and by the way, RU was 60% accepted versus 55% for TTFP and tOSU, must be that 5% of "poors" that ruin everything, couldn't be RU's higher SAT scores.

Not to mention your racial assumptions, I never knew how white the DC and Chicago areas were, I guess all the minorities fled after my last visits.

Do you even read what you write?
 
Is there any reason for Rutgers to have an ugly campus? Or is that also elitist?

NIRH, you just listed three schools in Rutgers that a 1700 is very much realistic to get in with. Please don't forget that SAS, MGSA, and SEBS are bigger than the more "selective" schools.

Um how is it "realistic" if it's far below the middle 50%? It is realistic to get a 1700 and get into Harvard because it happened, doesn't mean it's frequent.
 
I am pretty sure the avg for RU is now in the 1900 range. It is above 2200 for Honors college. Not as easy as you might think anymore, unless you are from NB, Camden or Newark.

There is an articel out there stating the new higher standards.

I posted RU's SAT scores in this thread. It's not 1700, but yet, people who want to make arguments based not in fact keep citing that.

I challenge anyone to post a link contrary to what I have said in this thread which has PROVEN RU has higher SAT scores than TTFP or UDel which that same crowd is going gaga for, will they post any links or will they tell us count the Mercedes in the parking lot?
 
A university, but one that's a fraction of the size of RU with bureaucracy and red tape similarly reduced. Not quite RU academically but not too far behind at the undergraduate level. A magnet for skiers.

And NO buses!!

Yeah, UVM shouldn't be hard to figure out, even without knowing anything about its campus. In scenic New England but not out in the sticks, nice little city that seems like and idyllic college setting. And yep, few better places to ski your way through school. University of Colorado was my first choice, but I would have loved UVM, on paper anyway.
 
Oh man...hate to let facts get in the way here, but I'm going to have to...

Middle 50% range of SAT scores

SAS 1730-2040
MGSA 1650-1930
SEBS 1720-2020
Engineering 1900-2180
Pharma 2100-2290
Business 2100-2290

http://admissions.rutgers.edu/academics/admissionsprofile.aspx

TTFP 1750-2000

http://admissions.psu.edu/apply/statistics/

SAT Reasoning Test (based on the best sub-scores from all tests taken)

Middle 50% of admitted freshmen

1815

http://www.udel.edu/admissions/for/freshmen.html

So now that we resolved RU is harder to get into than TTFP and UDel, what will be the next justification our own "alums" will use to justify NJ students going to those places?

None of that is proof that RUs SAT scores are higher than PSU or UD and it certainly doesn't prove that RU is harder to get into. You're a lawyer, aren't you? And you think you've offered proof?
 
I posted RU's SAT scores in this thread. It's not 1700, but yet, people who want to make arguments based not in fact keep citing that.

I challenge anyone to post a link contrary to what I have said in this thread which has PROVEN RU has higher SAT scores than TTFP or UDel which that same crowd is going gaga for, will they post any links or will they tell us count the Mercedes in the parking lot?
Here is the article from the Targum I was refering to :

Each year, it is becoming increasingly difficult to receive a Rutgers acceptance letter.

There is no space for increases in New Brunswick, so admissions will be more selective, said Courtney McAnuff, president of enrollment management.

“That means your diploma is going to be worth a little more each year," he said.

McAnuff said the class of 2019 has an average SAT score of 1881, which is 16 points higher than last year and 350 points higher than the national average.

About 100 less students will be admitted to Rutgers New Brunswick compared to last year due to overcrowding, McAnuff said. The number of admitted students affects class availability, housing, transportation and financial aid.

The School of Environmental and Biological Sciences has had a trend of increasing SAT score and GPA benchmarks over the years, said Richard Ludescher, dean of Academic Programs at the School of Environmental and Biological Sciences.

Three years ago, Ludescher said SEBS admitted more than 700 students, but the class of 2019 will be about 650 students.

“We want the next class to always be a little bit better than previous classes,” he said.

There is also an increase in demand for the University, McAnuff said. The University has received 36,000 applications for the fall of 2019 so far and is projecting a record of 48,000 total applications.

Admissions received a 12.4 percent increase in first-year applications and a 40 percent increase in international applications this year.

“I’ve been involved with admissions for more than 30 years, and I’ve never seen an annual increase this high,” McAnuff said.

One of the factors that may have caused the increased demand is the attractiveness of the new honors college, McAnuff said. The honors college has space for around 500 students and will be competitive.

The average SAT score of an admitted honors student is a 2210, but varies by school, McAnuff said. This is 600 points higher than the national average.

“The new honors college at Rutgers is giving a venue for the very top students not only in New Jersey, but in the nation,” he said.

The movement to the Big Ten conference has helped attract applicants as well, McAnuff said.

Rutgers was ranked 33rd in the world and 8th among public universities in the U.S., which has had a dramatic impact on international applications, McAnuff said.

Rutgers has recently been selected as the site for the International High School Guidance Counselors summit in the summer of 2016, which will affect future international applications, McAnuff said.

“This will bring 1,200 international high school guidance counselors from 93 countries to the University,” he said. “That will have a big impact on international applications.”

Faculty from each school meets with the Rutgers University Undergraduate Admissions in the fall, Ludescher said. They calculate a target number of students to admit based on predictions, statistics and trends.

One factor that will affect admissions at the School of Environmental and Biological Sciences is a change in the list of majors offered by the school, he said.

The faculty at SEBS voted to discontinue six majors offered by SEBS that were also offered by the School of Arts and Sciences, such as geography, geological sciences and chemistry, Ludescher said.

“Students interested in those six majors will be applying to SAS rather than SEBS next year,” he said. “This affects the admissions process.”

Ludescher said the School of Environmental and Biological Sciences is not as competitive as other schools, such as the Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy, the Rutgers Business School and the School of Engineering.

The Mason Gross School of the Arts has the lowest percent of students admitted, while the School of Pharmacy is the most academically competitive school, McAnuff said.

“I think it’s a tribute to the programs,” McAnuff said. “I believe the runner-up for 'The Voice' was an applicant at Mason Gross this year.”

The average GPA of students admitted to the School of Pharmacy last year was 4.05 and the average SAT score was 2200, he said.

Many students apply to Mason Gross from across the U.S., but classes are small and enrollment is selective.

Rahul Parehk, a School of Arts and Sciences first-year, said he is glad Rutgers is becoming more selective.

“It will help me when I’m looking for a job in the future,” he said. “When employers see that I graduated from such a competitive school, it will get me the job.”

He said he hopes the University continues to attract international students because it will bring more diversity to the campus and make Rutgers a more recognized name around the world.

“The trend at Rutgers New Brunswick is that the school is more difficult to get into every year,” Ludescher said. “The primary thing this reflects is that Rutgers is now more desirable, we are getting more applicants and can be more selective.”
 
I think Zappa hangs out with a lot of parents that send kids to MKA. If you are willing to spend all that money for private school, you expect to get into schools that are better than Rutgers. I don't disagree with that logic but they are the minority. NJ kids in public schools (good and bad towns) will consider and attend Rutgers.
 
jtung
I'd like to see how many graduates from the publics in Ridgewood, Mountain Lakes, Millburn, Essex Fells, Chatham, Mendham, just to name a few towns, consider Rutgers?
 
Ocean City HS just announced the top 10 seniors academically and where they are heading to college. These kids are the best and brightest and #1 and #9 are heading to RU. http://ocnjdaily.com/ochs-class-of-2015-top-10-academic-students/

I know my niece who was #1 in her class at one of the best HS's in NJ, Marine Academy of Science and Technology, went to RU. She could have gone anywhere and my brother could afford it. She went to RU because they gave her a free ride and the program she wanted, something to do with genetics, was one of the best. She is now pursuing her masters at UNC, another free ride plus cost of living stipend. Her brother was in the same boat and could have gone to any college he wanted but chose RU. He is now working at Google
Not to slight the kids from OCHS but the other schools that make up the MCVSD Academies like the one you mentioned, MAST have the real best and the brightest...the ones coming out of BioTech, HiTech and Allied Health are just on a different level.

And some of you would surprised on how many go to RU now and how many plan to go when they graduate from these places. I know I was.

As somebody who grew up in one of "those" towns (two of them actually) and went to one of the "those" high schools I recall the options/choice some of us had that others didn't...if you can swing it (more $$$ vs. your GPA) your menu becomes a lot bigger than some other kids. Sometimes for some RU is on it, for others for whatever reasons that we don't really need to dissect here it's not.

I have said in the past Rutgers is not everybody's cup of tea. I happen to like tea and not coffee. And if you like coffee that's your business but I will not wring my hands or criticize your choice.
 
My friends' children who attended Rutgers complained bitterly about the need to take busses to attend classes. The various campuses are way too spread out. It detracts from the traditional college experience that many affluent students want.
 
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jtung
I'd like to see how many graduates from the publics in Ridgewood, Mountain Lakes, Millburn, Essex Fells, Chatham, Mendham, just to name a few towns, consider Rutgers?
I would like to see it too. I think you would be surprise at the percentage. I'm in summit and the only reason parents are hesitant on Rutgers is distance.
 
A huge problem here is implying that only affluent kids deserve or want an "upscale" campus or a "traditional experience." That seems contrary to the mission of a state university.

Look at our neithbor to the west, Penn State. Pretty as heck campus and a state school that attracts some working-class and rural kids from PA. Any reason for RU to not be like this?
 
My friends' children who attended Rutgers complained bitterly about the need to take busses to attend classes. The various campuses are way too spread out. It detracts from the traditional college experience that many affluent students want.

Maybe we should pimp out the buses... make them all electric or some other enviro-friendly thing. Put free wi-fi on the buses with ports to charge your devices while you shuttle to the next class. Make it cool to ride the campus buses. Get them ready for the real world in urban areas where using mass transit SHOULD be the norm. I met a lot of nice girls on the buses and at bus stops.

Is it the case that you need to use the campus buses? Can't you schedule to make such a need rare?
 
I can't speak for Florida schools specifically but in my career I have worked with individuals from all over the country and world. Many are from the areas that we consider to be bad for education because they do not pay as much in tax dollars to their schools.

Looking at taxes for similar priced houses:
- Hohokus - 3 beds 1.5 baths with 1344 sq ft listed for 550k pays $7000 a year in taxes (per zillow)
- Scottsdale - 5 beds 3 baths with 3000 sq ft listed for 549k pays $2500 a year in taxes (per zillow)

Good post...but FYI, different states fund their public school systems differently as some states rely more on sales taxes (paid by everyone in the state, i.e. residents, tourists, business travel, convention biz, etc...) while others rely more on property taxes (paid by homeowners/business owners).
 
I think Zappa hangs out with a lot of parents that send kids to MKA. If you are willing to spend all that money for private school, you expect to get into schools that are better than Rutgers. I don't disagree with that logic but they are the minority. NJ kids in public schools (good and bad towns) will consider and attend Rutgers.

And they do...as NJ students make up over 90% of the RU Demographic population that come from the US (RU has a growing International Student Population).
 
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