Nobody has addressed the ironic nature of this thread. The OP rips what he describes as his upper-middle class buddies for treating their private schools as a status symbol, yet he wants Rutgers to become a status symbol so that he can talk about college sports with his buddies and maintain his "street cred."
Our NJ upper middle class to affluent kids
- Thread starter zappaa
- Start date
I haven't bothered to read any posts in this thread but I think the diversity issue which is often treated like a oooooooh oooooh you cant talk about that is at play here. The upper class families and kids generally are white and they are going to schools that tend to have more like them. Penn State, Villanova, Boston College even a West Virginia become attractive options.
and as far as another topic in another thread about alumni giving...diversity also has to be factored in
and as far as another topic in another thread about alumni giving...diversity also has to be factored in
I've heard that WVU is a last option for some...but I wouldn't include the Morgantown, WVU choice with the other schools mentioned, especially those with acceptances from multiple good schools (RU included of course).
The question is - do kids who could get into say RU-Newark pick WVU instead, because WVU is non-urban (to be PC about it). Obviously most kids picking WVU from NJ arent getting into RU anyway (because if they were they would end up at a better OOS school instead.)
You can certainly do that. But its tough. And it still excludes the social functions on CA. I dont think being envirofriendlyt would matter. Certainly charging ports and wifi wouldnt be a bad idea, but it still a matter of - at MD or PSU you dont really need to worry about it. It just an extra hassle. In addition to trying to get the classes you ned to graduate when you need them, you also have to be highly sensitive to WHERE they are being held and when.
On top of that, its not just certain schools that need to deal with it. Anyone in SAS, which is 2/3rds of the school could basically end up having to take classes on any other campuses. Hell, as a meteorology major I still had classes on Busch and Livingston that I needed for the major. I had to go to CA for electives. And of course C/D itself is still the size of the residential/learning core of UMD (i.e. strip out the athletic and night school facilities.).
Im sure its not a deciding factor. But its the kind of thing that can turn people off before they even really investigate the school.
The upper middle class is not targeting PSU or WVA. I have this conversation all the time with people who are in this group. The number 1 goal is tier one schools and 1A schools. They would laugh in my face if I said what about PSU or WVA. I will also add that sports is not a factor in the decision process.
I'm not sure where you got the PSU stat, but it is incorrect. Penn State's white population at University Park is 66.9% which is far less than the 83.2% in PA.
PSU is far more selective in getting students than RU - there is no doubt and it gets a different category of students on the top end. As I said in a prior post, my kids attend a top academic private school in Florida. Per my discussions with the guidance folks there, over the years a number of kids have applied to PSU (as well as Indiana and other good, but not elite State Us outside of FL) and some have gone to PSU - my neighbor's daughter who attended this prep school was set to go PSU to study aeronautical engineering until she got a late admit and went to Michigan instead. Virtually no students apply to, and none have gone to RU in recent memory. PSU is a very different place and in part gets a demographic that we simply don't get except on very rare occasions -eg, some kids of alums - Sonny Werblin's son was there when I was there. Also, MGSA and other specialty programs may attract some upper middle class kids, though even in those cases, it's very small numbers. Thais is a big reason why we lack major donors.
Then the rest of them must be dumb f*cks, because they get the same quality (actually slightly worse) as RU overall, and thats with the advantage of being able to send everyone else to the branch campuses and pull them back in if they do well.
What you might actually be seeing is one verifiable artifact of athletic success - that it makes you more appealing nationally (we have already seen this with our huge increase in Midwestern students in our one year in the Big Ten). I dont think that applies locally (because the bulk of local students are picking state schools for financial reasons, whereas out of state has already made the choice to prioritize things other than financial value), or that students are even conscious that they are doing it because of athletics
A lot of affluent students today want either a traditional campus with creature comforts or a campus located in a major city (eg BC or NYU). RU is a group of campuses located in a mixed urban and suburban sprawl.
When I attended grad school at RU I was only interested in the quality of education. I kind of liked the contrast in settings offered by different campus locations. I also had a car, however, so it was easy to get around.
When I attended grad school at RU I was only interested in the quality of education. I kind of liked the contrast in settings offered by different campus locations. I also had a car, however, so it was easy to get around.
My nephews could only get into Livingston campus because their SAT were average but good GPA. They are now in the 1% in their mid thirties. Who cares about SAT scores? Most of the posters here aren't in the 1%. Yea, I know Ivy League graduates not doing as well but they can brag they went to NYU or Princeton.
I kiddingly told my nephew to go to Penn State just so we could have a football team to go to the games for after he graduates. This was before Schiano. He did go out of state but not Penn State but a smaller school so that he could play on the school football team.
SAT scores are correlated with future money making potential, although to be fair, they are also correlated with parents wealth - which is also correlated to future money making potential. Future money making leads to higher donations. Obviously its not a 100% correlation. Other factors like, which industry you go into matter alot (scientists are almost never going to make as much as financiers, even if the scientists are objectively smarter people for example) which is why the expansion and emphasis on the undergrad business major at RU is so important.
Phi - go look up the common data sets for Rutgers, PSU, and Delaware. Your answer lies there. RU gets kids with better SAT scores than PSU and Delaware.
I had a front row seat watching parents from one of the above towns stress over where the kids from a particular graduating class were being accepted. There was a Facebook account where the kids listed their acceptances. It became as much a competition over the names and how their children measured up imo.
I have looked at the data. The issue I had was that the poster was using just one segment of SAT data as "proof" that RU is harder to get into than other schools and repeating that line in multiple posts. There's more to SAT data than just the high and low scores of the middle 50% and there's a hell of a lot more than just SAT scores that goes into admission decisions. He knows better than to trot out that one statistic as proof of his argument.
According to most rankings, that is not true at all. The schools are very close, but PSU generally is ranked ahead of Rutgers for undergraduate education. Rutgers is generally ranked ahead of PSU for graduate education.
What #'s do you have to back up that statement.. US News reports that Rutgers has an acceptance rate of 59.5% while PSU is at 55.5%. Not sure I would say that PSU is "far" more selective. Both schools are in the same category of competitiveness.
I wonder if they have a % of how many are accepted actually attend? The 59.5% and 55.5% may include the same kids that apply to both schools. Also, if PSU gets more applications as a bigger state maybe that is why it has a lower acceptance rate. You may have kids that apply to RU, PSU, MD, URI, DEL, and TCNJ. If they are accepted to RU plus certain others which do they choose? Is it RU over WV and URI or is it RU over PSU and MD.
The reason that RU may be rated ahead of PSU for graduate school could be proximity to NYC and Philly since some Grad programs have part time options (ie. MBA).
What I should have said is that it is "more", not "far more" selective. However, my comment that it gets a far greater percentage of upper middle class kids than RU stands.
What are you a jerk off? I don't rip anyone and how the hell do you do you know what I want.... Ass hole
While these are general acceptance rates, I'd be really interested whether this number reflects regional campuses as well or only the flagship campuses (New Brunswick/State College)? Also I'd be curious to know whether it's more difficult to gain admittance as an out-of-state student. For example, Muffy McSuburb from Mountain Lakes, NJ can gain acceptance to RU as an in-state student, but can't make it to PSU as an out-of-state student due to more stringent admission standards for non-taxpayers. Admissions are all the same for private colleges (legacies withstanding), but at public universities, it's generally more selective for out-of-state students, hence the perception.
But a lot of those state schools aren't surrounded by world class universities like we are. If you go to an Ohio State or Nebraska or such, what else is out there? Not even to choose to go to (cause you could to a good school farther away), but to grow up around and be impressed by? Those types of state schools are a big deal where they're at, not just in athletics but in academics as well.Then you look at Rutgers. Princeton, Columbia, and UPenn are all within about an hour away. The list goes on, but you can stop right there. If you grow up with all that in your backyard, RU doesn't look so impressive. We keep thinking that the bright lights of the big city (NY/Philly) will pull kids in, but sometimes it works against us with the home growns. Because there are other lights here brighter than ours. That's part of what we're having to work against.
Not really disagreeing but I look at it a little differently:
I want the smartest kids. Don't care how much cash dad and mom make. Super smart = eventually successful = eventual big time donors.
Some Ivy League schools operate under this principle and do rather well.
That argument is used exclusively for football recruits, no? Don't think anyone would suggest that proximity to NY is a big pull for NJ's upper class, which grew up with proximity to NYC and could choose to go to schools with even better proximity to NYC, like in NYC (or other fashionable cities). You can't, however, play P5 football so close to NYC anywhere else.
Anecdotal to be sure, but interestingly, I was at a garden party in the Main Line (Ardmore/Haverford area) about three weeks ago and speaking with a number of parents of high schoolers who were getting ready for college. I listened to the college choices and in just about every single mentioning, it was the private college that was in the mix. A few Ivy targets, but other than that, a lot of the top targets were smaller elite private colleges like Smith, Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Oberlin, Hopkins, UChicago. When I asked, "What about PSU," they looked at me like the poor trash that I am. One father politely explained to me (short of petting me on the head) that PSU is a fun place to go, but not for someone looking to maximize their opportunities and potential. Whatever that means. I'm middle class and do well enough (or at least I think do) but I don't make 300k and I don't come from money. So I'll never understand what these people have at their disposal. What I am sure of though is they will never choose State U (whatever state that might be).
Main Line parents would rather jump off the Ben Franklin Bridge than send their kids to Penn State. But they are the 1% of Pennsylvania and represent too small a demographic for it to matter. I think the RU situation presents a much greater issue, as there are Main Lines throughout all of North and Central New Jersey.
These numbers are likely skewed by immigration patterns. Asian, Hispanic, and other immigrants will mostly be coming through ports to areas where their own ethnic group has a high population density. Places like NY/NJ and LA are prime examples. I would guess that NJ has a higher base of minorities in the population at large than states like Ohio, for example. This would especially be significant with the Asian demographic because of the large numbers from this group that go to college.
Okay, I guess I was trying to tie another point in here and got it a little mixed up. On the football side, I think it's also an issue because we're surrounded by thirteen pro teams in the four major team sports. It's harder for Rutgers to make waves here against that background than say, Nebraska in Nebraska. If a recruit comes here, he can expect his team to be a big deal in the media only if Rutgers has an exceptional season. If he goes to Nebraska, his team will be on the local news nightly win or lose.
Um actually at big public schools SAT are probably at least 50% of the decision.
The rest is GPA...so glad you brought this up!!!
Rutgers SAS 3.5-4.0
TTFP 3.55-3.97
Whoops!
http://admissions.rutgers.edu/academics/admissionsprofile.aspx
http://admissions.psu.edu/apply/statistics/
Once you take Engineering, Pharma, and Business into account, it's not even that close.
Are you going to concede defeat or actually substantiate what you're saying?
Except of course that you can get in there with a lower GPA and SAT than would be accepted at RU.
What you meant is that they are richer financially, just shorter on brain power!
My roommate freshman year was from Chatham, two other kids were from our dorm and I know at least one other. I know another alum and season ticket holder who graduated from Millburn.
The idea that these kids don't come to RU is not based in reality.
Usually when one posts about wanting to talk about sports, that can be interpreted as one wanting to talk about sports. Your previous posts also gave an air of "they're 'too good' for Rutgers."
Not to speak for Zap but I believe he's saying they THINK they're too good for Rutgers. Big difference.
