Rapid Reaction - MSU

[Degaz-RU]

1. Two 6-minute scoring droughts sunk us. Outscored 25-0 in that 12-minutes of play. These “death droughts” (as I’ve come to call them) will happen in every game because we are so challenged on offense, making our margin for error more razor thin than ever.

2. Damn shame too, as, up until 36-35, our defense was playing lights out.

3. Izzo made a couple of tweaks on offense in the 2nd half. First he started going to Malik Hall, as both Cliff and Hyatt had 3 fouls. Hall scored on two consecutive possessions. Then Izzo went to a fast weave, and it really confused our defense and got MSU wide open looks (which they made).

4. But our ineptitude on offense contributed to the defensive woes, as MSU was able to get out in transition, get easy buckets, but also make the game seem like an avalanche. Rutgers wilted in that 19-0 stretch.

5. Hyatt and Mag had nice games, but our four guards plus Gavin were awful, going a combined 7-25 from the field. Simpson played a decent floor game, Austin was just sort of meh, but Noah was awful, and JMike played out of control during much of his minutes. Freshman growing pains there.

6. Cliff is a black hole on offense. Certainly not helped by foul trouble and the nut shot, but he had just 4 points on 2-5, and his three misses were 8 foot jump hooks in the paint that were all good looks. None were close.

7. Oskar gave good minutes in the first half, but the 19-0 run began when he, Noah and JMike checked into the game. And he still can’t hit threes (which is supposed to be his strength).

8. I don’t understand why Gavin wasn’t in the game for the last 4 or 5 minutes of a blowout loss. Did Pike really think we could get back in the game?? The kid needs time on the court, and garbage time is when you do it.

9. What can you say? This team is SEVERELY challenged on offense. Despite the win over Indiana, that has not changed. And there’s only so much defense a team can play without getting help from the offense. We continue to be a contender for a bottom 4 finish in the B1G.

 

[High Quality H2O]

Watching them go 12-25 from 3 boiled my blood. At least two times we dove for the ball and that possession ended up with them drilling a three. Thought we were playing hard and they somehow make the shot every time. Very frustrating.

No call on Cliff he should have been at the line in the first 1/2 instead he gets caught fouling after the rebound and then gets taken out. Really could have done without that call.

 

[goru7]

1. Two 6-minute scoring droughts sunk us. Outscored 25-0 in that 12-minutes of play. These “death droughts” (as I’ve come to call them) will happen in every game because we are so challenged on offense, making our margin for error more razor thin than ever.

2. Damn shame too, as, up until 36-35, our defense was playing lights out.

3. Izzo made a couple of tweaks on offense in the 2nd half. First he started going to Malik Hall, as both Cliff and Hyatt had 3 fouls. Hall scored on two consecutive possessions. Then Izzo went to a fast weave, and it really confused our defense and got MSU wide open looks (which they made).

4. But our ineptitude on offense contributed to the defensive woes, as MSU was able to get out in transition, get easy buckets, but also make the game seem like an avalanche. Rutgers wilted in that 19-0 stretch.

5. Hyatt and Mag had nice games, but our four guards plus Gavin were awful, going a combined 7-25 from the field. Simpson played a decent floor game, Austin was just sort of meh, but Noah was awful, and JMike played out of control during much of his minutes. Freshman growing pains there.

6. Cliff is a black hole on offense. Certainly not helped by foul trouble and the nut shot, but he had just 4 points on 2-5, and his three misses were 8 foot jump hooks in the paint that were all good looks. None were close.

7. Oskar gave good minutes in the first half, but the 19-0 run began when he, Noah and JMike checked into the game. And he still can hit threes (which is supposed to be his strength).

8. I don’t understand why Gavin wasn’t in the game for the last 4 or 5 minutes of a blowout loss. Did Pike really think we could get back in the game?? The kid needs time on the court, and garbage time is when you do it.

9. What can you say? This team is SEVERELY challenged on offense. Despite the win over Indiana, that has not changed. And there’s only so much defense a team can play without getting help from the offense. We continue to be a contender for a bottom 4 finish in the B1G.

My biggest takeaway is a criticism of Pike who I hardly ever criticize. We finally take the lead 36-35 and he subs out our first team and sure enough Michigan State which got nothing in transition all of a sudden Walker and then Holliman gets lost in transition because our second team didn’t know who they had , hit 2 big 3’s and go up 10. Our team had not played in 4 days. There was no reasonable reason to change what was working. They clearly were not tired and were punishing Michigan State on back door cuts for layups. They couldn’t handle Mag and Hyatt was heating up and getting and taking open threes. Nothing says your starters cannot go 8-10 minutes straight to start a half. Pike ‘s obsession with his bench and subbing 3 at a time has to stop. It hurts whatever little offensive chemistry this time can muster.
Another huge first half takeaway where we got very unlucky. There were 4 scrambles for loose balls or offensive rebounds MSU got all of them and kicked out for 4 made 3’s. The score was 22-21 we were winning and should have been 22-9 without those 4 threes despite good hustle by us. Just bad bad luck.

The shooting of our guards is atrocious and their lousy shooting never give us a chance . They are still out of control and do not pass it to the wings or to Cliff. How much film do they have to watch before it is corrected ? We can compete with Hyatt, Mag and Cliff up front but our guards cannot be no shows.

 

[goru7]

My biggest takeaway is a criticism of Pike who I hardly ever criticize. We finally take the lead 36-35 and he subs out our first team and sure enough Michigan State which got nothing in transition all of a sudden Walker and then Holliman gets lost in transition because our second team didn’t know who they had , hit 2 big 3’s and go up 10. Our team had not played in 4 days. There was no reasonable reason to change what was working. They clearly were not tired and were punishing Michigan State on back door cuts for layups. They couldn’t handle Mag and Hyatt was heating up and getting and taking open threes. Nothing says your starters cannot go 8-10 minutes straight to start a half. Pike ‘s obsession with his bench and subbing 3 at a time has to stop. It hurts whatever little offensive chemistry this time can muster.
Another huge first half takeaway where we got very unlucky. There were 4 scrambles for loose balls or offensive rebounds MSU got all of them and kicked out for 4 made 3’s. The score was 22-21 we were winning and should have been 22-9 without those 4 threes despite good hustle by us. Just bad bad luck.

The shooting of our guards is atrocious and their lousy shooting never give us a chance . They are still out of control and do not pass it to the wings or to Cliff. How much film do they have to watch before it is corrected ? We can compete with Hyatt, Mag and Cliff up front but our guards cannot be no shows.

Only good thing on offense today , they passed it quickly to one another that got them good looks and back door layups and less of the aimless dribbling without doing anything. More of that please.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

My biggest takeaway is a criticism of Pike who I hardly ever criticize. We finally take the lead 36-35 and he subs out our first team and sure enough Michigan State which got nothing in transition all of a sudden Walker and then Holliman gets lost in transition because our second team didn’t know who they had , hit 2 big 3’s and go up 10. Our team had not played in 4 days. There was no reasonable reason to change what was working. They clearly were not tired and were punishing Michigan State on back door cuts for layups. They couldn’t handle Mag and Hyatt was heating up and getting and taking open threes. Nothing says your starters cannot go 8-10 minutes straight to start a half. Pike ‘s obsession with his bench and subbing 3 at a time has to stop. It hurts whatever little offensive chemistry this time can muster.

I couldn't agree more. Chuck Daly would be rolling over in his grave if he watched what Pike does.

Daly's top keys to coaching were don't stop doing what's working and feed the ball to the hot hand.

Ask any player who played under Daly. They'll tell you the quickest way to get yanked out of a game by Daly was if you didn't try your best to get the ball in the hands of a hot shooter.

 

[Scangg]

Slept in and missed the first half. Literally turned it on in the 2nd with a lead and saw the 19-0 run

Is Mag now somehow our best offensive player?

Guard play continues to struggle. Whispers of an imminent J Will return would give some hope. Ogbole too another big body

Wolf 4-4 from the line

Gavin somehow on the bench in a blow out with underperforming senior like Noah in is confusing. Noah makes a late 3 for his 1st basket in 3 games

 

[Scangg]

My biggest takeaway is a criticism of Pike who I hardly ever criticize. We finally take the lead 36-35 and he subs out our first team and sure enough Michigan State which got nothing in transition all of a sudden Walker and then Holliman gets lost in transition because our second team didn’t know who they had , hit 2 big 3’s and go up 10. Our team had not played in 4 days. There was no reasonable reason to change what was working. They clearly were not tired and were punishing Michigan State on back door cuts for layups. They couldn’t handle Mag and Hyatt was heating up and getting and taking open threes. Nothing says your starters cannot go 8-10 minutes straight to start a half. Pike ‘s obsession with his bench and subbing 3 at a time has to stop. It hurts whatever little offensive chemistry this time can muster.
Another huge first half takeaway where we got very unlucky. There were 4 scrambles for loose balls or offensive rebounds MSU got all of them and kicked out for 4 made 3’s. The score was 22-21 we were winning and should have been 22-9 without those 4 threes despite good hustle by us. Just bad bad luck.

The shooting of our guards is atrocious and their lousy shooting never give us a chance . They are still out of control and do not pass it to the wings or to Cliff. How much film do they have to watch before it is corrected ? We can compete with Hyatt, Mag and Cliff up front but our guards cannot be no shows.

Basketball is a game of runs and rhythm. Pike tends to stop our own momentum at times. If someone is hot, leave them in for a longer stretch. If an entire lineup is clicking on all cylinders, ride it.

Pike will also sometimes call a TO after we are on a run. Makes no sense to me. Make the other team call one

 

[FIJI'83]

I agree we can live with Andre H. , Cliff O. and Mag, but the guard play is this team’s Achilles Heel.

 

[bac2therac]

wash, rinse, repeat...the talent is just not there

 

[fatsam98]

Garbage time would have been the perfect time for Gavin to get a solid 5 minutes under his belt against their backups. Gavin needs to step the f up at some point, but Pike isn't handling this very well imo.

 

[Kbee3]

I have no idea what people see in Gavin. I'm not gonna post what i think happens to him at the end of this season.

 

[G- RUnit]

After those two early bad calls on Cliff and the amount of no calls, Pike has to start working the refs or he is not doing his job. Hyatt and Cliff two fouls early. MSU in the bonus early. We don’t even get a foul shot until little more than two minutes left in the first half. Officiating was the major factor in the first half.

We constantly get the short end of the stick and it appears that refs know there will be no repercussions if you make a bad call against RU. Izzo still working refs up 16. Pike has to do the same.

We could have had a first half lead and MSU completely demoralized. Instead we energized MSU.

Both the MSU run at the end of the first half and the disaster in the 2nd half were when Pike replaced the starting guards.

First half was encouraging. D was elite.
Oskar had nice minutes. He’s another guy that like Cliff gets abused and never any fouls on the opposition. But he breathes on the opposition and the foul calls reign down. SMH.

Frustrating loss. It was there for the taking.

 

[bac2therac]

Garbage time would have been the perfect time for Gavin to get a solid 5 minutes under his belt against their backups. Gavin needs to step the f up at some point, but Pike isn't handling this very well imo.

agree...the other players somehow are allowed to make multiple mistakes, yet Gavins are somehow magnified times 10

 

[Mr Magoo]

Garbage time would have been the perfect time for Gavin to get a solid 5 minutes under his belt against their backups. Gavin needs to step the f up at some point, but Pike isn't handling this very well imo.

agree 100%. Were not going anywhere this year so why not try to salvage Gavin so that some other team doesn’t fix him next year. I’m not saying giving him time he doesn’t deserve but we are a crap team right now. He’s bad but he’s not that much worse than others and why not try to save/fix a borderline 5 star?

 

[Scangg]

Not playing Gavin while he's slumping in a tight game is one thing...

Gavin should be playing 100% of all blowout minutes

 

[RUskoolie]

Garbage time would have been the perfect time for Gavin to get a solid 5 minutes under his belt against their backups. Gavin needs to step the f up at some point, but Pike isn't handling this very well imo.

You all are obsessed with a kid because of his ranking. If I had no idea what his ranking was I would question why he's even on the floor. He's been awful for 6 weeks. Oscar absolutely deserves his minutes. Maybe the lightbulb will go on for him next year but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes 2 years. He is totally lost. Not sure why people can't see it.

 

[RUskoolie]

I have no idea what people see in Gavin. I'm not gonna post what i think happens to him at the end of this season.

This. People still think his stars matter. They don't.

 

[cm_13]

Basketball is a game of runs and rhythm. Pike tends to stop our own momentum at times. If someone is hot, leave them in for a longer stretch. If an entire lineup is clicking on all cylinders, ride it.

Pike will also sometimes call a TO after we are on a run. Makes no sense to me. Make the other team call one

We don’t have the luxury to gamble on some subs and try to steal a few minutes on the road in the second half. If we have a slim lead, you’ve gotta ride your guys.

 

[G- RUnit]

You all are obsessed with a kid because of his ranking. If I had no idea what his ranking was I would question why he's even on the floor. He's been awful for 6 weeks. Oscar absolutely deserves his minutes. Maybe the lightbulb will go on for him next year but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes 2 years. He is totally lost. Not sure why people can't see it.

I think it’s partially a strength thing too. If any player needed an old fashioned red shirt year to get stronger it was Gavin.

 

[bac2therac]

This. People still think his stars matter. They don't.

i get what you are saying but his high school ability is better than we are getting from Oskar...we know what we brings, why not roll the dice with Gavin, if it doesnt work out..then move him along and recruit the portal to replace him

 

[RUJMM78]

Garbage time would have been the perfect time for Gavin to get a solid 5 minutes under his belt against their backups. Gavin needs to step the f up at some point, but Pike isn't handling this very well imo.

I doubt Gavin and his father are happy with the lack of playing time.He should have been on the court in the last five minutes when the game result was already decided.I don't know how you explain a very highly rated recruit getting so little playing time.There is no question his performance has been disappointing which really concerns me for next season.Where is the player development?

 

[RUskoolie]

i get what you are saying but his high school ability is better than we are getting from Oskar...we know what we brings, why not roll the dice with Gavin, if it doesnt work out..then move him along and recruit the portal to replace him

Bac, please watch him and only him when he is in (I have been doing this since Princeton because I was so excited about him based on what I was reading on the board). He was okay today (as in not a catastrophe) but a bunch of games when he has been in, we cannot stop anyone and his offense he acts like an unathletic shooter at the YMCA who just stands on the 3 point line waiting for an open look. Oscar is out playing him right now. Doesn't matter about next year, coaches aren't thinking that way you know that. Let Gavin makes plays in games and he will earn more minutes. If they let him play extensive minutes he would have an Art Sitkowski level freshman year that would be a nuclear bomb on his confidence.

 

[RUskoolie]

I doubt Gavin and his father are happy with the lack of playing time.He should have been on the court in the last five minutes when the game result was already decided.I don't know how you explain a very highly rated recruit getting so little playing time.There is no question his performance has been disappointing which really concerns me for next season.Where is the player development?

LOL his father? Deer Lord please don't tell me we have a helicopter parent to deal with on the hoops team.

 

[goru7]

I doubt Gavin and his father are happy with the lack of playing time.He should have been on the court in the last five minutes when the game result was already decided.I don't know how you explain a very highly rated recruit getting so little playing time.There is no question his performance has been disappointing which really concerns me for next season.Where is the player development?

He doesn’t help himself . How many wide open shots is he going to miss ? When he ever going to drive hard to the basket and make a layup or a short jumper? Does he think he cannot do it and has to stand at the 3 point line in the corner ? He gets subbed into the game and immediately gets beat on an inbounds play for a layup. He is doing nothing positive on the court and doing a ton of negative things . I was expecting a complete player , that could dribble , shoot , pass , rebound and toughness, especially a knock down shooter. We are 0-5 in receiving any of the above , leaving the shooting aside, nothing from the other 4 areas. Nada. Either he starts Gavin trying to get him playing the 2 guard with Williams and seeing it he can help with Aundre and him on the court at the same time because he is not starting over Andre, Mag or Cliff. Otherwise , he has to look in the mirror and do much much more on the court when he is out there.

 

[zappaa]

Why the three man substitution with the lead, only 5 minutes into the 2nd half?

 

[NickRU714]

agree...the other players somehow are allowed to make multiple mistakes, yet Gavins are somehow magnified times 10

We gave up 73pts!
That's just not going to cut it with this team.
Unless Gavin improves his bench D significantly then he just can't get on the floor.

Didn't you see the wide open 3 that Davis gave up?
Gavin should have obviously stopped the pass and not put Davis in the position of having to guard his man.
Or when he got picked on an inbound play? He should have obviously seen the pick coming and stopped it.
He shouldn't have to rely on his teammates to play help defense. That's playing weak.

 

[bitnez]

I have no idea what people see in Gavin. I'm not gonna post what i think happens to him at the end of this season.

I see a lot. In the first 4 games he played 22/mins per game and gave us 11.5 pts/game on 46% shooting. Awesome numbers for a true freshman.

The next 3 he dipped to 9.3 pts/game on 38 shooting. Still more than fine for a developing player.

Had a tough one in his first road game at Wake 0-5, which is understandable, but bounced back hitting big 3s against SHU giving us 11 pts on 4-8 shooting. So, through our first 9 games he had more than shown that he had offensive talent.

He followed up the Hall with 2 ok games going 6-16 and scoring 8.5 ppg. Not great but again more than fine for a true freshman especially on a team where no one shoots well.

Unfortunately, he the hit a rough stretch. 0-5, 1-8, 1-5. It was ugly, and Pike completely pulled the plug. He’s essentially out of the rotation playing only 5 minutes in each of the last 2 games.

Gavin not playing down the stretch today made zero sense unless Pike isn’t interested in getting him going again.

 

[coldsprings]

This. People still think his stars matter. They don't.

You're right; accolades don't guarantee success, but I would be surprised if Gavin and his parents won't seek a second opinion from other coaches after the season. And if they do, I'm sure many coaches would explain to them what they will do differently to help Gavin flourish.

You can have the highest regard for Pike, but why would Gavin and his parents assume the coaching staff is not making mistakes?

At the very least, any other team would have guards who know how to pass.

 

[mikeyo]

Garbage time would have been the perfect time for Gavin to get a solid 5 minutes under his belt against their backups. Gavin needs to step the f up at some point, but Pike isn't handling this very well imo.

A redshirt season might have made some sense in hindsight

 

[RedChucken123]

Even though we’ve looked really bad, I am not ready to give up on the season yet. There’s still a lot of games to be played. So NO, I am not just going to give Gavin a lot of minutes for development purposes. I still want to see as competitive games as possible. You can do that with 5-6 regular season games left. There’s still 15 left to go. It’s pretty clear his confidence is shot. When you are a shooter and you shoot some really bad bricks like I’ve seen at times lately, maybe he just needs to sit a little bit and get his mind right. I kind of wish we did that with Paul late last year.

 

[RUskoolie]

You're right; accolades don't guarantee success, but I would be surprised if Gavin and his parents won't seek a second opinion from other coaches after the season. And if they do, I'm sure many coaches would explain to them what they will do differently to help Gavin flourish.

You can have the highest regard for Pike, but why would Gavin and his parents assume the coaching staff is not making mistakes?

At the very least, any other team would have guards who know how to pass.

If his parents are still involved at this point then good riddance. He's getting NIL, has an NIL agent and playing with grown men in a grown men league. FFS stop mentioning his parents like he's a 7 year old kid in the church league.

 

[RUskoolie]

Even though we’ve looked really bad, I am not ready to give up on the season yet. There’s still a lot of games to be played. So NO, I am not just going to give Gavin a lot of minutes for development purposes. I still want to see as competitive games as possible. You can do that with 5-6 regular season games left. There’s still 15 left to go. It’s pretty clear his confidence is shot. When you are a shooter and you shoot some really bad bricks like I’ve seen at times lately, maybe he just needs to sit a little bit and get his mind right. I kind of wish we did that with Paul late last year.

I would tell him you are not allowed to shoot the ball until you grab a rebound while you are on the floor. He needs to learn to get in the paint and attack the rim. He'll work through it. I have been there as a freshman thinking you suck so bad you forget how to even walk basically.

 

[bitnez]

If his parents are still involved at this point then good riddance. He's getting NIL, has an NIL agent and playing with grown men in a grown men league. FFS stop mentioning his parents like he's a 7 year old kid in the church league.

Ah, what parent isn’t involved in the college decisions for their kids? Of course they’re involved just like every other kid who is lucky enough to have them around.

 

[RUskoolie]

Ah, what parent isn’t involved in the college decisions for their kids? Of course they’re involved just like every other kid who is lucky enough to have them around.

I think you're out of your element here. Parents are not involved with high level college athletes and the ones that heavily involved with the regular student is very cringeworthy.

 

[bitnez]

I think you're out of your element here. Parents are not involved with high level college athletes and the ones that heavily involved with the regular student is very cringeworthy.

You’re completely wrong. Exhibit A - Dylan Harper.

 

[darkcheck]

1. Two 6-minute scoring droughts sunk us. Outscored 25-0 in that 12-minutes of play. These “death droughts” (as I’ve come to call them) will happen in every game because we are so challenged on offense, making our margin for error more razor thin than ever.

2. Damn shame too, as, up until 36-35, our defense was playing lights out.

3. Izzo made a couple of tweaks on offense in the 2nd half. First he started going to Malik Hall, as both Cliff and Hyatt had 3 fouls. Hall scored on two consecutive possessions. Then Izzo went to a fast weave, and it really confused our defense and got MSU wide open looks (which they made).

4. But our ineptitude on offense contributed to the defensive woes, as MSU was able to get out in transition, get easy buckets, but also make the game seem like an avalanche. Rutgers wilted in that 19-0 stretch.

5. Hyatt and Mag had nice games, but our four guards plus Gavin were awful, going a combined 7-25 from the field. Simpson played a decent floor game, Austin was just sort of meh, but Noah was awful, and JMike played out of control during much of his minutes. Freshman growing pains there.

6. Cliff is a black hole on offense. Certainly not helped by foul trouble and the nut shot, but he had just 4 points on 2-5, and his three misses were 8 foot jump hooks in the paint that were all good looks. None were close.

7. Oskar gave good minutes in the first half, but the 19-0 run began when he, Noah and JMike checked into the game. And he still can’t hit threes (which is supposed to be his strength).

8. I don’t understand why Gavin wasn’t in the game for the last 4 or 5 minutes of a blowout loss. Did Pike really think we could get back in the game?? The kid needs time on the court, and garbage time is when you do it.

9. What can you say? This team is SEVERELY challenged on offense. Despite the win over Indiana, that has not changed. And there’s only so much defense a team can play without getting help from the offense. We continue to be a contender for a bottom 4 finish in the B1G.

Thanks. So spot on!! 7&8 especially

 

[RUskoolie]

You’re completely wrong. Exhibit A - Dylan Harper.

Is Dylan Harper in college right now? That's what I am talking about.

 

[bitnez]

Is Dylan Harper in college right now? That's what I am talking about.

To be clear - I’m not talking about parents calling coaches complaining about minutes, posting stuff online, etc. If that’s what the other poster was referring to, I disagree. But after the season if any kid wants to explore his options I would expect them to consult with their parents assuming the parents are around and engaged.

 

[kcg88]

You're right; accolades don't guarantee success, but I would be surprised if Gavin and his parents won't seek a second opinion from other coaches after the season. And if they do, I'm sure many coaches would explain to them what they will do differently to help Gavin flourish.

You can have the highest regard for Pike, but why would Gavin and his parents assume the coaching staff is not making mistakes?

At the very least, any other team would have guards who know how to pass.

If that happens and I were Pikiell I would simply tell Gavin that I can find another 24% three point shooter in the portal.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

To be clear - I’m not talking about parents calling coaches complaining about minutes, posting stuff online, etc. If that’s what the other poster was referring to, I disagree. But after the season if any kid wants to explore his options I would expect them to consult with their parents assuming the parents are around and engaged.

Completely agree, and his father is not some uninformed sports dad, he played basketball professionally overseas and I am sure he developing his own view of the situation. I hope Gavin stays, but it would not surprise me if they decide our style of play does not maximize his skill set.