Scholarship Offers of Starters - like the Shea era

[kennyschiano]

In judging talent, i think it is best to look at who else offered. Stars matter but i think who offered is a more accurate reflection of the talent. Not much talent in Flood's classes.

Based on offers, I would expect Denman, Muller, Miller, Lambert, and Hamilton to be the best players. Pinnix Odrick, Patton, Grant, and Nelson to be contributors. and the rest to be somewhere on the 3 deep or not even playing.

Muller and Hamilton have been hurt. Denman has not played well. Dorian Miller is still young. Lambert is a bit of a tweener size wise.

Patton is a possession receiver and his offer sheet looks like that. Pinnix Odrick is a solid player as his offer sheet would show. Grant has outplayed his offers based mostly on special teams. and Nelson is a 5th year contributor.

This is why we stink and will not change until the talent improves.

We don't have a "stable" of WRs. We are not "loaded" at RB.

We are barely better than a Terry Shea recruited team with a couple of highly recruited players mixed in.


Offense

QBChris Laviano – Boston College

RBJustin Goodwin – UCONN, UMASS, Temple

WRAndre Patton - BC, Illinois, Iowa, NCState, Pitt, Purdue, Syracuse, WVU

WRJanarion Grant - UCONN, Indiana, Iowa State, Kentucky, UMass, Mid Tenn St, OKState, USF, WKU, WVU

WRCarlton Agudosi – No Other Offers

TENick Arcidiacono – BC, Bowling Green, Buffalo, Delaware, Kent State, Lafayette, Lehigh, Temple

RTJJ Denman – Many Offers

RGChris Muller – Many Offers

C Derrick Nelson – Delaware, Georgia Tech, Kansas State, Old Dominion, Syracuse, Temple, Tulane, Youngstown State

LGDorian Miller - BC, UConn, GT, MD, UNC, Pitt, USF, Temple, Tennessee, Tulane, UVA

LTTariq Cole - Temple


Defense

DEQuanzell Lambert – Many Offers

DEJulian Pinnix-Odrick – BC, UConn, Illinois, Marshall, Maryland, Michigan State, PSU, Pitt, Purdue, Temple

DTDarius Hamilton – Many Offers

DTSebastian Joseph – Akron, Buffalo, UConn, Maryland, Temple

LBTrevor Morris – Bryant, Buffalo, Colgate, Holy Cross, James Madison, Ohio, Rhode Island

LBDeonte Roberts – Boston College, UCF

LBGreg Jones - Transfer

CBBlessuan Austin – No Other Offers

CBIsaiah Wharton – Coastal Carolina, Illinois, Indiana, Southern Miss, Weber State

FSSaquan Hampton – No Other Offers

SSAnthony Cioffi – No Other Offers

 

[RuSnp]

In judging talent, i think it is best to look at who else offered. Stars matter but i think who offered is a more accurate reflection of the talent. Not much talent in Flood's classes.

Based on offers, I would expect Denman, Muller, Miller, Lambert, and Hamilton to be the best players. Pinnix Odrick, Patton, Grant, and Nelson to be contributors. and the rest to be somewhere on the 3 deep or not even playing.

Muller and Hamilton have been hurt. Denman has not played well. Dorian Miller is still young. Lambert is a bit of a tweener size wise.

Patton is a possession receiver and his offer sheet looks like that. Pinnix Odrick is a solid player as his offer sheet would show. Grant has outplayed his offers based mostly on special teams. and Nelson is a 5th year contributor.

This is why we stink and will not change until the talent improves.

We don't have a "stable" of WRs. We are not "loaded" at RB.

We are barely better than a Terry Shea recruited team with a couple of highly recruited players mixed in.


Offense

QBChris Laviano – Boston College

RBJustin Goodwin – UCONN, UMASS, Temple

WRAndre Patton - BC, Illinois, Iowa, NCState, Pitt, Purdue, Syracuse, WVU

WRJanarion Grant - UCONN, Indiana, Iowa State, Kentucky, UMass, Mid Tenn St, OKState, USF, WKU, WVU

WRCarlton Agudosi – No Other Offers

TENick Arcidiacono – BC, Bowling Green, Buffalo, Delaware, Kent State, Lafayette, Lehigh, Temple

RTJJ Denman – Many Offers

RGChris Muller – Many Offers

C Derrick Nelson – Delaware, Georgia Tech, Kansas State, Old Dominion, Syracuse, Temple, Tulane, Youngstown State

LGDorian Miller - BC, UConn, GT, MD, UNC, Pitt, USF, Temple, Tennessee, Tulane, UVA

LTTariq Cole - Temple


Defense

DEQuanzell Lambert – Many Offers

DEJulian Pinnix-Odrick – BC, UConn, Illinois, Marshall, Maryland, Michigan State, PSU, Pitt, Purdue, Temple

DTDarius Hamilton – Many Offers

DTSebastian Joseph – Akron, Buffalo, UConn, Maryland, Temple

LBTrevor Morris – Bryant, Buffalo, Colgate, Holy Cross, James Madison, Ohio, Rhode Island

LBDeonte Roberts – Boston College, UCF

LBGreg Jones - Transfer

CBBlessuan Austin – No Other Offers

CBIsaiah Wharton – Coastal Carolina, Illinois, Indiana, Southern Miss, Weber State

FSSaquan Hampton – No Other Offers

SSAnthony Cioffi – No Other Offers

Disagree. We are more talented now than at any point during the Shea era. Hamilton alone probably had more P5 offers than the entire D on some of Terry's teams.

We need to get more talent clearly to get where we want to get but let's not exaggerate. The late 90s was a very, very dark period.

 

[Rutgers25]

Clearly you weren't around for the Shea era. Anybody with a P5 offer unless they had serious baggage went elsewhere.

 

[urbanecane]

It's a valid point, and one that many posters have worried about since Flood's first recruiting class fell apart. It's encouraging to see that even most of the less heralded 2017 recruits have a solid offer sheet. Bryce Watts, for example, has offers from VT and PITT I believe. These are the programs we need to beat before we can even think of reaching the B10 middle tier.

 

[DJ Spanky]

I really don't see the point of this thread, in a sense calling out our players.

Disagree. We are more talented now than at any point during the Shea era.

 

[kjb32812]

Very interesting breakdown and you are 100% correct. I think the biggest thing for RU to hope for this year is to beat everyone you're supposed to. That will go a long way in Ash "selling the dream." No one expects you to beat OSU or UM but they also don't expect you to lose to Howard.

If I was an RU fan, I'd be pissed about the OL. Isn't that Flood's background? Your most loaded position according to *s (I believe) and the two most highly rated guys...from what I've read on here...are busts. That completely kills your squad because when you look at the rest of the lineup...and please don't take this the wrong way...you're playing in the B1G with MAC level talent.

I hope I never come here again and have to read the BS Flood convinced some of you that stars don't matter. There's also the spiderman guy who said you didn't need to be relevant in NJ to become relevant as a program. That's complete and utter hogwash.

 

[Plum Street]

Good post . We aren't as bad as the Shea years though . But this analysis shows you why we stink .

 

[El Curioso Impertinente]

if Syracuse upsets Louisville. . . Ok, let's not go there, but I'm just saying.

 

[RUwoz]

That's why I'm not buying the hype about our 2017 commits.... If we want to beat PSU, OSU, Michigan we need players that have offers from those schools which only a few do

 

[kjb32812]

That's why I'm not buying the hype about our 2017 commits.... If we want to beat PSU, OSU, Michigan we need players that have offers from those schools which only a few do

First, PSU shouldn't be included in that group. Second, you need some momentum before you even whisper beating the T2 consistently. Look at the OP. How in the hell is a team starting those kids even supposed to compete with UM and OSU?

 

[cicero grimes]

correct me if I am wrong but I thought Austin had P5 offers but had to go the JUCO route due to grades. All in All a spot on post.

 

[satnom]

OP you have no idea what you're talking about.

GO RU

 

[beaced]

In judging talent, i think it is best to look at who else offered. Stars matter but i think who offered is a more accurate reflection of the talent. Not much talent in Flood's classes.

Based on offers, I would expect Denman, Muller, Miller, Lambert, and Hamilton to be the best players. Pinnix Odrick, Patton, Grant, and Nelson to be contributors. and the rest to be somewhere on the 3 deep or not even playing.

Muller and Hamilton have been hurt. Denman has not played well. Dorian Miller is still young. Lambert is a bit of a tweener size wise.

Patton is a possession receiver and his offer sheet looks like that. Pinnix Odrick is a solid player as his offer sheet would show. Grant has outplayed his offers based mostly on special teams. and Nelson is a 5th year contributor.

This is why we stink and will not change until the talent improves.

We don't have a "stable" of WRs. We are not "loaded" at RB.

We are barely better than a Terry Shea recruited team with a couple of highly recruited players mixed in.


Offense

QBChris Laviano – Boston College

RBJustin Goodwin – UCONN, UMASS, Temple

WRAndre Patton - BC, Illinois, Iowa, NCState, Pitt, Purdue, Syracuse, WVU

WRJanarion Grant - UCONN, Indiana, Iowa State, Kentucky, UMass, Mid Tenn St, OKState, USF, WKU, WVU

WRCarlton Agudosi – No Other Offers

TENick Arcidiacono – BC, Bowling Green, Buffalo, Delaware, Kent State, Lafayette, Lehigh, Temple

RTJJ Denman – Many Offers

RGChris Muller – Many Offers

C Derrick Nelson – Delaware, Georgia Tech, Kansas State, Old Dominion, Syracuse, Temple, Tulane, Youngstown State

LGDorian Miller - BC, UConn, GT, MD, UNC, Pitt, USF, Temple, Tennessee, Tulane, UVA

LTTariq Cole - Temple


Defense

DEQuanzell Lambert – Many Offers

DEJulian Pinnix-Odrick – BC, UConn, Illinois, Marshall, Maryland, Michigan State, PSU, Pitt, Purdue, Temple

DTDarius Hamilton – Many Offers

DTSebastian Joseph – Akron, Buffalo, UConn, Maryland, Temple

LBTrevor Morris – Bryant, Buffalo, Colgate, Holy Cross, James Madison, Ohio, Rhode Island

LBDeonte Roberts – Boston College, UCF

LBGreg Jones - Transfer

CBBlessuan Austin – No Other Offers

CBIsaiah Wharton – Coastal Carolina, Illinois, Indiana, Southern Miss, Weber State

FSSaquan Hampton – No Other Offers

SSAnthony Cioffi – No Other Offers

Interesting comparison.The key is whether Ash's Staff can coach these players up to the competitive levels that Shea was unable to do with his kids.

 

[RU205]

If we are basing it on offers we have QBs on the roster with LSU and TCU. I would like to see one of them get into the game.

 

[FanuSanu52]

It seems like you spent a fair bit of time on that. Next time, take a vigorous crap ... the tangible results will be the same, but it'll feel more satisfying and accomplish something important.

 

[kapyoche]

Rutgers is losing because we are not spending as much as other schools. Without money, you are not going to move up the star ranking among players we recruit.

Kids who are 17 and 18 are not stupid. They go to "bling" schools.
Though we have good players, but the talent gap is monumental. And it has gotten worse after joining the BIG.

Everyone on this forum was of the opinion that BIG will help us get good recruits. In fact, we have not in the last two years. It is too early to tell how this year will go.

 

[kjb32812]

Rutgers is losing because we are not spending as much as other schools. Without money, you are not going to move up the star ranking among players we recruit.

Kids who are 17 and 18 are not stupid. They go to "bling" schools.
Though we have good players, but the talent gap is monumental. And it has gotten worse after joining the BIG.

Everyone on this forum was of the opinion that BIG will help us get good recruits. In fact, we have not in the last two years. It is too early to tell how this year will go.

I think RU's lack of recruiting has everything to do with who was running the show rather than what conference you are playing in. A dead battery can't jump start a dead battery and that's exactly what Flood was.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

In judging talent, i think it is best to look at who else offered. Stars matter but i think who offered is a more accurate reflection of the talent. Not much talent in Flood's classes.

Based on offers, I would expect Denman, Muller, Miller, Lambert, and Hamilton to be the best players. Pinnix Odrick, Patton, Grant, and Nelson to be contributors. and the rest to be somewhere on the 3 deep or not even playing.

Muller and Hamilton have been hurt. Denman has not played well. Dorian Miller is still young. Lambert is a bit of a tweener size wise.

Patton is a possession receiver and his offer sheet looks like that. Pinnix Odrick is a solid player as his offer sheet would show. Grant has outplayed his offers based mostly on special teams. and Nelson is a 5th year contributor.

This is why we stink and will not change until the talent improves.

We don't have a "stable" of WRs. We are not "loaded" at RB.

We are barely better than a Terry Shea recruited team with a couple of highly recruited players mixed in.


Offense

QBChris Laviano – Boston College

RBJustin Goodwin – UCONN, UMASS, Temple

WRAndre Patton - BC, Illinois, Iowa, NCState, Pitt, Purdue, Syracuse, WVU

WRJanarion Grant - UCONN, Indiana, Iowa State, Kentucky, UMass, Mid Tenn St, OKState, USF, WKU, WVU

WRCarlton Agudosi – No Other Offers

TENick Arcidiacono – BC, Bowling Green, Buffalo, Delaware, Kent State, Lafayette, Lehigh, Temple

RTJJ Denman – Many Offers

RGChris Muller – Many Offers

C Derrick Nelson – Delaware, Georgia Tech, Kansas State, Old Dominion, Syracuse, Temple, Tulane, Youngstown State

LGDorian Miller - BC, UConn, GT, MD, UNC, Pitt, USF, Temple, Tennessee, Tulane, UVA

LTTariq Cole - Temple


Defense

DEQuanzell Lambert – Many Offers

DEJulian Pinnix-Odrick – BC, UConn, Illinois, Marshall, Maryland, Michigan State, PSU, Pitt, Purdue, Temple

DTDarius Hamilton – Many Offers

DTSebastian Joseph – Akron, Buffalo, UConn, Maryland, Temple

LBTrevor Morris – Bryant, Buffalo, Colgate, Holy Cross, James Madison, Ohio, Rhode Island

LBDeonte Roberts – Boston College, UCF

LBGreg Jones - Transfer

CBBlessuan Austin – No Other Offers

CBIsaiah Wharton – Coastal Carolina, Illinois, Indiana, Southern Miss, Weber State

FSSaquan Hampton – No Other Offers

SSAnthony Cioffi – No Other Offers

If you don't know the Scholarship offers of the Shea era vs. the current team how can you say they are comparable ?

In addition, if you were watching during the Shea Era you would NOT post something this clueless.

 

[kennyschiano]

If you don't know the Scholarship offers of the Shea era vs. the current team how can you say they are comparable ?

In addition, if you were watching during the Shea Era you would NOT post something this clueless.

i was watching during the shea era. lots of d1aa players with an occasional offer outside of 1aa

 

[RUfinal4]

I counted 8 guys total with many offers or offers from decent football schools. While good coaches can develop players it does tell you about Flood's recruiting where he was losing battles to equivalent schools for the kids.

 

[MGSA99]

Clearly we cannot comprehend the shocking power of those Shea teams.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I counted 8 guys total with many offers or offers from decent football schools. While good coaches can develop players it does tell you about Flood's recruiting where he was losing battles to equivalent schools for the kids.

Just curious, what exactly is a "decent football school" ?

 

[ScarletRunner]

I agree that the roster as currently assembled lacks the talent to compete in any way in the B1G. We would probably be pretty middling even if we were still in the American.

But I think people forget just how bad the recruiting and on-field product was under Shea. The 2015 recruiting class (for example) would have been one of Shea's best hauls.

 

[ScarletRunner]

Clearly we cannot comprehend the shocking power of those Shea teams.

The recruits might not have had the best 40 times, but they had great "game speed".

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

that's not a bad list of schools on there and that list rivals most of GS's days. What was UW's, that is the question really since so many are saying we were undertalented on the field despite the obvious issues with preparation, coaching errors, and lack of any semblance of a gameplan.

 

[The RUT]

If I was an RU fan, I'd be pissed about the OL. Isn't that Flood's background? Your most loaded position according to *s (I believe) and the two most highly rated guys...from what I've read on here...are busts. That completely kills your squad because when you look at the rest of the lineup...and please don't take this the wrong way...you're playing in the B1G with MAC level talent.

Yeah the dude was a bum. Got credit for talent he didn't recruit. Not sure how true this is, but I believe it was here that I heard he almost got canned prior to becoming our HC

 

[kennyschiano]

that's not a bad list of schools on there and that list rivals most of GS's days. What was UW's, that is the question really since so many are saying we were undertalented on the field despite the obvious issues with preparation, coaching errors, and lack of any semblance of a gameplan.

Most obvious talent gaps being quarterback, offensive tackles, wr, DL, TE, Safety.


WR John Ross - Michigan, Oregon, Arizona, UCLA, Wisconsin ...
WR Chico McClatcher - Arizona, UCLA
WR Dante Pettis - Boise State, some other west coast teams
LT Trey Adams - Oregon, USC, Washington State
LG Jake Eldrenkamp - Brown, Oregon State, Utah, Yale
OC Coleman Shelton - Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico State
RG Shane Brostek - went to hawaii prep - cannot find
RT - Kaleb McGary - USC, Nebraska, Oregon ...
TE - Darrell Daniels - Michigan, ND, Oklahoma, UCLA, Auburn, USC
QB Jake Browning - Alabama, Cal, Oklahoma State
RB - Myles Gaskin - Arizona State, Washington State

DE Vita Vea - Cal, Oregon State, Tennessee, Utah
DT Greg Gaines - Boise State, Iowa State, Utah State
DT Elijah Qualls - UCLA, Michigan, Miami, USC ...
DE Joe Mathis - Alabama, Auburn, Michigan, USC ...
LB Azeem Victor - Fresno State, Houston, Oregon
LB - Keishawn Bierria - Arizona, Arizona State, Cal ...
LB Psalm Wooching - Colorado, UCLA
CB - Sidney Jones - Colorado, Utah ...
FS - Budda Baker - Arizona, Notre Dame, Oregon, UCLA, USC
SS - JoJo McIntosh - Boise State, UCLA
CB Kevin King - Cal, Colorado, Utah

 

[cicero grimes]

Clearly we cannot comprehend the shocking power of those Shea teams.

Ah yes. The good old days. I sat through all of them.

 

[FanuSanu52]

that's not a bad list of schools on there and that list rivals most of GS's days. What was UW's, that is the question really since so many are saying we were undertalented on the field despite the obvious issues with preparation, coaching errors, and lack of any semblance of a gameplan.

Washington has had a top PAC12 defense for a couple years now. Last year, it shut down USC ... HARD. It also has several playmakers in skill positions that burned us ... HARD.

We have the best nothing for years now and lost our best playmaker coming into this season. I couldn't care less about recruit sheets - there's a large talent differential that's easy to see with the naked eye, and that's before getting into all the other positions they out-talent us in.

Nm, OP already posted the list ... and surprise, surpise

 

[jonS]

I think RU's lack of recruiting has everything to do with who was running the show rather than what conference you are playing in. A dead battery can't jump start a dead battery and that's exactly what Flood was.

Absolutely agree. Ash has recruited one of the best classes ever without ever having previously coached a game. But what he does present is a hope, vision and determination and kids and their parents respond to that.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

Washington has had a top PAC12 defense for a couple years now. Last year, it shut down USC ... HARD. It also has several playmakers in skill positions that burned us ... HARD.

We have the best nothing for years now and lost our best playmaker coming into this season. I couldn't care less about recruit sheets - there's a large talent differential that's easy to see with the naked eye, and that's before getting into all the other positions they out-talent us in.

Nm, OP already posted the list ... and surprise, surpise

big fast and aggressive D that plays a good scheme, no doubt but that D is not made up of 4 star recruits

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

Ah yes. The good old days. I sat through all of them.

was BRUTAL

 

[Extra Point]

In judging talent, i think it is best to look at who else offered. Stars matter but i think who offered is a more accurate reflection of the talent. Not much talent in Flood's classes.

Based on offers, I would expect Denman, Muller, Miller, Lambert, and Hamilton to be the best players. Pinnix Odrick, Patton, Grant, and Nelson to be contributors. and the rest to be somewhere on the 3 deep or not even playing.

Muller and Hamilton have been hurt. Denman has not played well. Dorian Miller is still young. Lambert is a bit of a tweener size wise.

Patton is a possession receiver and his offer sheet looks like that. Pinnix Odrick is a solid player as his offer sheet would show. Grant has outplayed his offers based mostly on special teams. and Nelson is a 5th year contributor.

This is why we stink and will not change until the talent improves.

We don't have a "stable" of WRs. We are not "loaded" at RB.

We are barely better than a Terry Shea recruited team with a couple of highly recruited players mixed in.


Offense

QBChris Laviano – Boston College

RBJustin Goodwin – UCONN, UMASS, Temple

WRAndre Patton - BC, Illinois, Iowa, NCState, Pitt, Purdue, Syracuse, WVU

WRJanarion Grant - UCONN, Indiana, Iowa State, Kentucky, UMass, Mid Tenn St, OKState, USF, WKU, WVU

WRCarlton Agudosi – No Other Offers

TENick Arcidiacono – BC, Bowling Green, Buffalo, Delaware, Kent State, Lafayette, Lehigh, Temple

RTJJ Denman – Many Offers

RGChris Muller – Many Offers

C Derrick Nelson – Delaware, Georgia Tech, Kansas State, Old Dominion, Syracuse, Temple, Tulane, Youngstown State

LGDorian Miller - BC, UConn, GT, MD, UNC, Pitt, USF, Temple, Tennessee, Tulane, UVA

LTTariq Cole - Temple


Defense

DEQuanzell Lambert – Many Offers

DEJulian Pinnix-Odrick – BC, UConn, Illinois, Marshall, Maryland, Michigan State, PSU, Pitt, Purdue, Temple

DTDarius Hamilton – Many Offers

DTSebastian Joseph – Akron, Buffalo, UConn, Maryland, Temple

LBTrevor Morris – Bryant, Buffalo, Colgate, Holy Cross, James Madison, Ohio, Rhode Island

LBDeonte Roberts – Boston College, UCF

LBGreg Jones - Transfer

CBBlessuan Austin – No Other Offers

CBIsaiah Wharton – Coastal Carolina, Illinois, Indiana, Southern Miss, Weber State

FSSaquan Hampton – No Other Offers

SSAnthony Cioffi – No Other Offers

OMG there is no comparison of Shea's recruits vs what we have now. What we have now would score 50 on Shea's teams.

Case in point. Actually Rutgers did good in this game.

 

[FanuSanu52]

big fast and aggressive D that plays a good scheme, no doubt but that D is not made up of 4 star recruits

I'm not sure what you're saying.

"big fast and aggressive D" = more natural talent, whether they started with four stars or not.

Coaching may explain some of the differences between our teams, but talent explains a lot more.

 

[rulaw87]

For a trip down memory lane, here's a link to a whole bunch of stories about Terry Shea and Rutgers from the mid '90's to the year 2000.

http://articles.philly.com/keyword/terry-shea

 

[buffalochicken21]

Umm, the majority of that list of Flood recruits does not equate to GS recruiting as someone suggested above. Most of the players with many legit P5 are GS recruits themselves, so there goes that.

 

[RUBound]

No comparison to Shea teams - one of his teams lost a spring game to a bunch of alums who suited up - that tells you everything you need to know about the talent on Shea's teams.

 

[rivals1982]

First, PSU shouldn't be included in that group. Second, you need some momentum before you even whisper beating the T2 consistently. Look at the OP. How in the hell is a team starting those kids even supposed to compete with UM and OSU?

But we beat Michigan already. We also beat PSU too (a while ago). We did it before and we can do it again!

 

[urbanecane]

Just curious, what exactly is a "decent football school" ?

For me, at this juncture I expect Ash to recruit 3 or 4 national recruits (i.e. A Melton or Clark, guys with Ohio State offers or the like), around the same number of diamond in the rough type recruits (like Duggan) and then the rest should be guys recruited by the likes of Penn State, Va Tech, PITT, Maryland, and Miami. We can't be competing with Syracuse, Boston College and Temple.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

For me, at this juncture I expect Ash to recruit 3 or 4 national recruits (i.e. A Melton or Clark, guys with Ohio State offers or the like), around the same number of diamond in the rough type recruits (like Duggan) and then the rest should be guys recruited by the likes of Penn State, Va Tech, PITT, Maryland, and Miami. We can't be competing with Syracuse, Boston College and Temple.

if you don't think Sarah, BC, and Temple wouldn't beat the team last Saturday, you are sorely mistaken. I doubt we win all 3 of those and not because of the guys in red but because Ash and company had a miserable first showing.

this coming from a guy that won't let his kids accept a scholarship to BC because I loathe and detest that institution so much:)