And so your thesis is that Mawot Mag was so mother****ing good that a bunch of dumb, useless idiots + him was a top 25 basketball team?
How do you guys not understand how dumb this sounds?
The team died with Mag
- Thread starter Scangg
- Start date
How do you guys not understand how dumb this sounds?
It's like you don't even understand the concept of a "glue" guy
If you're so right then this 1-4 stretch is an aberration and we should expect Rutgers to return to playing just as good as we did pre Mag -2 points
I hope you're right, but it seems very unlikely
I generally agree with you on a lot of things with regard to metrics, player efficiency, etc. But sometimes those metrics can be wildly off base (see: State, Ohio) due to anomalies that metrics don't account for.
Numbers can't measure chemistry. They can't measure matchups. They can't measure fight, or grit, or heart. They can't measure how many "answers" we have, to use a Pike-ism.
Mathematically, taking the four of clubs out of the average poker hand and replacing it with any other random card isn't going to be very impactful the vast majority of the time. Take it out of a hand that's already a flush, though, and the impact will be bigger than it would from the average poker hand.
We haven't shown that we have pieces that can consistently be put together into a new whole yet. There may still be time to, and there may not be.
So what you’re really saying is that we have no depth and that an injury to any starter would have hurt us. Why you’re confusing that with mag being the teams mvp is beyond me.
"Glue" guys aren't worth 20 mother****ing points a game. Neither are people who get the fifth most ****ing minutes on the team, unless the coach is real stupid.
Do we think Pike is real stupid? (Probably a dangerous question to ask on the board right now)
What I’ve learned today is that when you have no real facts to back up your argument just scream intangibles and glue guy. No facts needed whatsoever.
Stop. Love these guys. We’re just not that deep of a squad yet and can’t recover from losing one of the key guys. They’ve been punching above their weight all season.
What's more likely man?
(a) Mag + the other players on our team share some sort of chemical bond such that they are 15+ points better with him than without him. This was apparently unknown to the coach who was playing him only 25 minutes per game.
(b) The team went into a slump at the same time that Mag went out. Mag's injury is a contributing factor but far, far from the only reason.
Like, you guys keep responding like I am looking at Mag's stats and saying "oh, not impressive stats, not worth that much." No, what I am saying is there is probably not one single goddamn player in all of Divison I basketball that is worth 15 points a game and Mag is far from a player of the year candidate, stats be damned.
You seem like someone who doesn’t watch the games but bases everything on the box score.
No, we have guys that dribble just fine… too much, actually. No consistently good shooters
It depends what you're replacing him with. Iowa was dogshit without Kris Murray for instance.
Yes, we get that. We have been exposed. It doesn't mean however, that we can't hobble together a few more wins to make the NCAA's. Tonight Pike and staff did a horrendous job especially substituting when he did early on. We were poised to blow them out of Jersey Mike's and Pike's piss poor decision to take out three starters there allowed Michigan the confidence to get back in the game and we never recovered.
Mag was disruptive, fierce on glass, covered lapses on d of our slow footed players, was getting better every week.
Well of course. This is why being down Caleb AND Mag would be a compounding problem, because you need to reach further into the bench for replacements and the dropoff after Hyatt is rather large.
But still, you know, 15 points a game, come on.
It's simply a depth issue.
With Mag, we weren't seeing Oskar, Dean, or Miller.
Without Mag, you're consistently seeing Oskar and Dean. Occasionally Miller, and more Simpson.
Anyone acting like Mag getting hurt isn't the issue is completely lost. It is THE issue. Oskar and Dean clearly aren't cut out for this level. Miller definitely isn't, and Simpson honestly looks worse than Miller did last season IMO.
If Mag is turning two defensive possessions into stops instead of buckets that's four points. If his presence helps us score on three possessions where otherwise we come up empty that's six points. Considering how bad the play has been from others getting more minutes I don't think that's crazy. A 15 or 20 point impact is overstating things but I'll buy 8-10.
It's pretty crazy.
I mean in SOME games sure. But he would also have bad games etc. 10 points on average is crazy town stuff.
Our depth is an issue, not msg himself. Mag wasn’t more important than cliff, Paul, cam or Caleb. He’s just the one who got hurt so now people are acting like he was the most important.
Think this team died with Paul. His regression since Mag went down is glaring. focus gone cliff never progressed offensively. Hyatt streaky.
Caleb is Caleb. Spence needs room. Bench is weak.
Caleb is Caleb. Spence needs room. Bench is weak.
Agree. Defense wasn’t the problem and Mag was the 5th scoring option. It’s the rest of the team offensively that’s the issue. The thread should be titled “the team died with Ron and Geo.”
Nope. Mag was getting a consistent 15-20/game with Hyatt filling out the rest. You can’t possibly think there isn’t a big drop off from Mag to Oskar. Oskar was barely getting minutes in the early games… now he’s needed as a key contributor. Caleb is trying to do too much, something he didn’t have to worry about playing along side Harper and Geo. Teams have also figured out how to defend Cam. It’s a mess. I’m also not sure if you appreciate how much Mag had improved though out the season… he was becoming a consistent 10 and 10 and might have gotten closer to 12+ ppg given his trajectory.
Our depth is an issue because we don't have Mag.
So yes, Mag getting hurt is the issue.
You're also downplaying a lot of the good things Mag did for this team. He was a very versatile player who gave Pike a lot of freedom with the lineup. He was consistently improving all year long.
Losing Mag hurt this team in a big way. People need to stop dancing around that fact.
Stupid post. We gave up 58 points. Problem was foul shooting and no O. Mag absence not a factor at all.
Hyatt no points!
Awful foul shooting.
Pike has to shorten bench,
He was a consistent 10 and 10 guy? That would be hard for him to do since he never grabbed 10 rebounds once this year. You guys are just making stuff up now. So weird.
Look at what happened today when Omoruyi went off the floor. Or is there some sort of chemical bond that we're 15 points worse with him off the floor? Sometimes one player can make an outsized difference on a game. Situations and matchups matter.... and neither show up in the box score.
Look at what happened when we had to ride-or-die with Hyatt or Palmquist all game at the PF spot. There's no depth at that position if someone has an off night. Neither one brings close to what Mag does defensively, and if their shots aren't falling the dropoff is much worse. Tonight would have likely been one of the nights Mag saw 30+ minutes (which happened in nearly a quarter of the games he played, and he was averaging 30.2 in the 5 games before MSU).
I don't think the loss of Mag is the "only" reason we're playing noticeably worse - but it's been far more impactful than some are willing to admit. Losing any starter is big and can derail a season - especially when you're a team that relies on "connectedness" and team play and not one or two elite players who can take over a game. Had we lost Omoruyi, Mulcahy, McConnell, or Spencer for the rest of the season, it also would have been a huge hit.... we just don't have a roster that can absorb the loss of a key cog like that.
No one saying losing him didn’t hurt but you’re overrating him. He was our 4th or 5th best player. We need to stop with the excuses.
Mag's bad games are way better than what we're getting in his stead.
Reiber has an 88 offensive rating in the Big Ten. Mag was ahead of that in 8 of 11 conference games, often well ahead. And there's a rebounding edge, and a defensive edge.
Did you happen to notice how good he was playing when he went out…I’m not sure I’d say anyone was playing better - arguably the 2nd best player on the team. Sounds silly, but 2nd or 3rd best defender. 2nd or 3rd best on offense.
He was definitely more than our 4th or 5th best player.
He was the 2nd best defensive player on a team who's entire foundation and identity is built on defense.
I'd argue if he was playing right now he would be our 2nd best, MAYBE 3rd best player on the team.
This is true but it wasn't that way earlier when we were playing better and winning. Folks wanted him benched. When he went down he was certainly on fire.
Cam and Cliff 17 of our 29 boards. Nobody else really wanted to get after them. Out rebounded again Mr. Pike.
4 offensive rebounds from a team that missed 29 shots!
4 offensive rebounds from a team that missed 29 shots!
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