I genuinely spit out my coffee laughing. So let me get this straight, some of our fans actually think what people say on an anonymous free message board actually has a legitimate impact on recruiting... wow.
What is Chris Ash's Vision??
- Thread starter rutgersal
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I genuinely spit out my coffee laughing. So let me get this straight, some of our fans actually think what people say on an anonymous free message board actually has a legitimate impact on recruiting... wow.
Exactly. What came first, chopping or winning? I don’t remember chop becoming a think until 2006.
Based on results after they started using the tag line... you are wrong. 2 straight top 10 finishes and a top 5 recruiting class coming in but there’s no vision there... smfh.
Rather than just continue this idea of trashing psu bc you don’t like them, perhaps take some notice of how they’ve built themselves back up so quickly. I’m not resolving them of any past sins, I’m just talking the surge back up to national prominence in just 3-4 years really. Their coach is everywhere, he is the face, he outlines a clear vision, he talks about winning championships and getting and education more than any other coach I’ve seen lately... the results speak for themselves.
But if you want to continue this rah rah of ‘**** penn state’ while completely ignoring what they are building over their, meanwhile defending a coach who has terrible game management skills, can not coach offense to save his life, has won 3 conference games over 2 seasons, has created no buzz amoung the local community, rely’s on his AD Hobbs to be the ‘face’ of the program and yes, allowed 78-0, 56-0 etc to happen... ur just going to be disappointed. Time to change ship now, cut our losses and bring in a guy like mike houston who has been dominant as a HC at the fcs level (we are going to attract any current P5 coaches or former HC’s with any national stain, get the up and comer. And build a vision
*Looks at the results on the field and on the recruiting trail*
But yea there’s vision there when you have the 50th ranked recruiting class and the rest of your division is killing it and in 2 seasons he has mustered 1 win against teams in our own division and that team was playing with their 3rd string QB...
Boy I feel optimistic with chris ash at the helm!
Forgot how awesome Schiano did those first few years too. You and Al are agenda posters (with Al also having a chronic need for attention) so there’s no point in even trying to have an actual discussion. You’ll just filter out whatever doesn’t support your stance as if it doesn’t exist. The fact that y’all are basically insinuating that Franklin ‘invented’ PSU’s winning imagine (and Al continues to troll with asinine Flood arguments) is f’n hysterical.
Joe P.
Oh for f*cks sake JUST SHUT UP.
This thread is why fans of other programs point and laugh. Seriously.
Root for the team, or don't.
Go to the games, or don't.
But five pages on "vision statements"?
Just win the f*ckin' games. Some of you guys act like we're paying Ash to sell Buicks. Me, I couldn't care less what Penn State has painted on the walls of their locker room. I just want to win games.
This thread is why fans of other programs point and laugh. Seriously.
Root for the team, or don't.
Go to the games, or don't.
But five pages on "vision statements"?
Just win the f*ckin' games. Some of you guys act like we're paying Ash to sell Buicks. Me, I couldn't care less what Penn State has painted on the walls of their locker room. I just want to win games.
Now we are starting to agree on some things. We will never be like Penn State, with a cult following, a stadium that seats over 100,000 fans and regularly sells out. Penn State is one of the blue bloods of college football. While college football was born at Rutgers, we are still an upstart P5 program. And you think we should be on their level?
You post gave me an idea for a Rutgers slogan.
WE R NOT PENN STATE
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Good idea get an up and comer and build a vision kinda guy like Ash. You do realize what he took over although the fact you only have 20 some posts tells me your new to the board and may not have read what’s been going on for the last 2 n half years. Really naive to say cut losses after 2 years.
I agree with most of what you said.
But you nailed it right at the beginning of your post. We HAD a QB. We have not had a QB since Gary Nova left. I think that for all of his warts (and hatred from some in our fanbase), Laviano was serviceable. He should not have been cast aside the way he was, and we should have slowly transitioned to the spread offense. Yes, that is on Ash and whomever he had as his OC. And that is partly why recruiting this year took a step back--our offense was anemic, and we lost at least one or two positions players because of it. IIRC, one even committed to Purdue after we beat them, probably because he liked what he saw in their offensive game plan. But we beat them, so ha, ha to that.
2014 was also interesting for another reason--the Fridge effect. I wonder if things would have been different if Hobbs was AD in 2011-12, and he put the horsepower and money behind Flood the way he has done with Ash. But frankly, I don't think Hobbs would have hired him in the first place. I have said this multiple times, and probably at least twice in this thread--you take a guy who was way underqualified to be a HC, and you give him a peanuts budget to hire a bunch of outcasts for coordinators and coaches, and what the heck would you expect except the results we saw. People love to complain about Flood, but the complaints should go straight to Barchi, the BOG and that circus sideshow of an AD who kept putting her foot in her mouth. I am not excusing Flood for what he did, but no wonder he started cutting corners and wearing disguises in Princeton to try to keep his best player on the team. Desperate people do desperate and stupid things. Hell, if it were me, I would have walked into Barchi's office and demanded a better assistant coaching salary pool and submitted my resignation if he did not agree. Flood was in a no-win situation--innately not equipped to be a head coach, and with his budget and the stink around the program and RU athletics with a clown for an AD, he could not attract or retain decent assistants. Barchi and the BOG reaped what they sowed.
But it's funny, in your post you talk about lack of depth and the 2017 Indiana result. Why do you think that happened? Could it be because of not only crappy recruiting but losing an entire recruiting class to arrests, dismissals, transfers, etc.? Yes, 41-0 was shocking and looked bad, and maybe it could have been better. But I am not going to use that one loss to define Chris Ash or any coach.
I say it a lot here. Don't look back. Move forward. Chris Ash knows better than any poster here that he made some mistakes and a bad hire for his first OC, and that hurt his initial results. The parts are now in place. A QB room full of QBs that have potential, and a REAL OC who has experience in coaching up QBs to ignite the offense. And Lester Erb moved to his position of coaching strength at WRs. Campanile and Robinson (hope he actually is coming) are going to kill it in recruiting NJ, South Jersey and DMV. Give it a chance, and stop being a boo bird.
And if he’s not, you will continue to sound stupid.
I realize what he took over sure, I’m not defending what Kyle flood did to the program on his way out and it was always going to be an uphill battle for whoever came in. What I’m concerned about is what we’ve seen from Ash particularly in game management and playcalling.
I’ll just say this, I believe a bowl game this year should be the benchmark of success. We won 4 games las year, I believe another 2 in year 3 is not too much to ask. Our schedule is interesting this year but November is brutal, but if we can pull it off I’ll gladly eat crow
Even if he is gone he will continue to sound stupid when the new hire comes. PS I think he is here for a fairly long time
Go back and read your post. You said time to cut losses now. Do you really think bringing in a new coach now changes anything within 2 years of their hire. I don’t but I do think 2 more years of Ash and staff will be ahead of where any new coach would be at that time. If you have followed MANY posts on here you would know the answer given by the coaching staff with regards to play calling was we install a game plan for what we think gives us the best chance to win.
Thank you, KnightShift, but after further review, these nebulous statements do not constitute a vision, which Coach has chosen not to release. The tipoff is when he says, "Our Mission Statement--It Won't include". The Mission Statement typically includes a statement of vision and values.
@MYHATINTHERING said it best that if you have to look up the vision, it isn't a vision. You don't HAVE to talk about championships in your vision.
Penn State has a very powerful vision. UNRIVALED Simple, Powerful, Effective enough to build a whole marketing campaign around, and they use it everywhere.
LOL @ Al!!! What's next Al?? A mission and values statement too????
R Should be a block R. Less salmon and more deep scarlet red.
The school admins should share at least half the blame and while I don’t necessarily fault Flood for taking the job, he also basically went ‘hey, I’m just happy to be here; you can do whatever’. When Schiano was hired, he (as like our 3rd or 4th choice- something else so many love to forget) had the intuition to tell Rutgers, “you need to expand the Hale Center, expand academic support, expand our budget or else I ain’t coming.” He also has the ambition to tell the school, ‘expand the Stadium or I’m gone’. Ash also said, “you have to expand our assistant money pool, update practice facilities, redo s&c and nutrition, try to insulate against possible NCAA issues or I ain’t coming.” To me that shows intuition, planning and vision. Now, you wanna say he’s not the right guy, different argument...but I think half the posts in this thread are so beyond stupid with such inane ‘points’ that make no real sense there aren’t enough words in the English language to describe them.
Joe P.
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I gots yo vision statement right hea!
FOCUS!!!
How many QB's did we run off with that philosophy and Drew Mehringer as our OC?
The administration really resented the money Schiano was paid, so when he left they laid down a bare bones budget to hire his replacement, and even worse for the assistant coaching staff. I think this falls more on the BOG, as McCormick was still president when Schiano left. (Barchi came on on 09/2012) But the merry-go-round of assistant coaches under Flood also shows that we were just a stepping stone for most of them given we underpaid so badly. And I think if it had been Hobbs instead of Pernetti, he still would have had trouble getting the BOG to okay a higher compensation rate for Schiano's replacement due to their antipathy towards football coaches in general earning high salaries.
The football forum is in full offseason swing. Time to return to the CE board which has been awesome fun lately?
Does this mean no more posts about a certain player at Lackawanna Community College, sorry, I mean Sam Houston State? [winking]
We have over 500K living alumni, yet fewer than 3K actively donate, and that is the biggest reason why Rutgers is not on Penn States level. So our first priority is to get 10K active donors, and then we can go from there.
The potential is unlimited. If Rutgers were #10 and facing a #1 Ohio State, we could sell out Rutgers Stadium many times over.
If we can build a solid product, and better engage our alumni base, there's no reason why Rutgers can't be on Penn States level. But to build a solid product, you've got to have a clear value proposition that the best football recruits from NJ will find appealing.
In fact, in 2014, the programs were on par, aside from fanbase size. In the subsequent three years, they left us in the dust, mostly because we never adequately replaced Gary Nova.
Penn State did not always have a big stadium.
- In 1962, Beaver Stadium held 46,284 seats.
- in 1972, capacity grew to 57,538
- in 1976, capacity was 60,000
- in 1978, capacity was 76,639
- in 1980, capacity was 83,770
- in 1991, capacity was 93,967
- in 2001, capacity was 106,572
Rutgers Stadiums maximum supposedly is 80K, thanks to infrastructure constraints.
He is not recruiting well enough for Rutgers to be competitive in the Big Ten, and that's the bottomline.
And that's why we lost to Indiana 41-0. There's not enough talent. Sure there's been attrition, but Rutgers should have enough talent to not lose to Indiana 41-0 and fail to demonstrate even a HINT of competitiveness. I just think its a symptom of a problem.
If his recruiting for the next three classes mirrors the last three classes, then he is unlikely to succeed.
That's not being a boobird, that's looking at the reality of our situation and projecting the next three years based on whats happened to date.
I want him to succeed because I think he's got the skills to be a great coach. So, this is not meant to be the let's bash Ash thread. This is supposed to be a how can we do things better thread.
So how do we recruit better? I think he needs to develop a more effective message so that recruits will be more inclined to consider Rutgers. I think we have everything in place to have a great football program, but our value proposition has not been articulated effectively enough. We've got a wonderful football culture which Schiano created, and Ash restored, and frankly, I don't think there's a better place for Jerseys finest to go. But jerseys best need to fully understand the value we can deliver to their football career. And i don't think they understand that, which is why many of them, like Ronnie Hickman, won't even consider Rutgers.
Now whether by luck or fortuitous timing, McNulty actually mentioned something in a article by Sargeant, which might provide the closest thing I've seen to a vision.
http://www.nj.com/rutgerswomen/inde...oordinator_john_mcnul.html#incart_river_index
McNulty said. "In the end I think it’ll be like how it was before, how (Tom) Savage chose this place over Georgia or how DC Jefferson chose this place over LSU — (Rutgers) is a legitimate pro offense. It will prepare you to play at the next level.
If we take this statement, and modify it a little bit, we can come up with:
Rutgers will prepare you to play at the next level.
This is an example of a vision that is both simple, easy to remember, aspirational, inspirational, and proven. Its the closest thing to a value proposition I've seen from anyone on Ash's staff. there's nothing about championships, which makes our fans nervous. Furthermore, What college recruit doesn't think he'll be playing in the NFL? Furthermore, playing in McNulty's offense will better prepare you for the NFL than playing for Ohio State or Penn State. Its a competitive advantage for Rutgers to be able to offer this.
Which leads me to the next point. why aren't our NFL alumni involved with our recruiting? They can be, as long as a recruit initiates contact. Miami for a very long time, has had NFL alumni, like Michael Irvin, talk to recruits. We should get our alumni involved as well, as long as they are willing. Imagine Anthony Davis talking to Big John Olmstead. Devin McCourty talking to safety/cornerback prospects.
At the end of the day, I'm rooting for Ash to succeed and he can do so by improving our recruiting. Whatever he feels he needs to do, he needs to do.
Lol...the next time im wrong on this board will be the first.
He's barely regarded in state
Recruiting is marginal
Can't coach or make adjustments game day
Seemingly can't hire competent coaches
Can't sell a vision much less find one
I could go on
We'll be paying him to sit home before his contract is up
Guy simply cannot coach
Same thing going on with Durkin in Maryland.
It took Franklin that many years at Penn State with the addition of Moorhead.
Can you give it a rest, please. We get your point. You don't like Ash.
Look, at the end of the day, recruiting is what matters. without results, u need to sell a future to these kids, a vision
Al is not wrong, too many here make excuses for shitty coaching and results. Ash needs to sell a vision recruits can get behind because his results thus far are Sheaesque
Al is not wrong, too many here make excuses for shitty coaching and results. Ash needs to sell a vision recruits can get behind because his results thus far are Sheaesque
How politically correct of you to use "retarded."
No, the point is, Penn State's results under Franklin were so-so the first couple of years.
7-6 and 7-6 is pitiful for Penn State. He trended the program down in W-L. The elite top 10 recruiting classes started in his fourth year, after Moorhead arrived.
It's a valid comparison. Penn State was not at the bottom of the mountain like Rutgers was in 2013. They were in the middle, and it took them a few years to climb back up to the top to elite level. You are too stupid to see the analogy, and I am done with you.
Lol...u are retarded here. zero objectivity and moronic comparisons
Ash started with plenty, he's been an abysmal coach with even worse coordinators
We could learn alot from psu and Franklin in particular. his system for assistants is great and set up to not skip a beat with how psu does things. he's ahead of any issue, we play bury the head and react.
Lol that you think you’ve “never been wrong here”, then immediately say we need to follow PSU’s assistant system )like it’s some sort of groundbreaking concept to pay people a lot of money) even though they pay double what we do while basically blaming Ash all along when he has no direct control over it...exactly why I said half the posts in this thread are beyond stupid.
Joe P.
Joe P.
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