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Year 2 can be worse than year 1

Actually, though I rarely chime in on threads like, this, I think Plum is completely wrong.

I actually do not think this season can POSSIBLY be as bad as last season.

Sure, you can say that 2nd seasons of new coaches are often worse than the 1st season they coached, and can cite many examples of that. But though that is a fact, that has NOTHING to do with the actual situation at hand.

Last season was pretty much as bad a season as RU had since the early seasons of Schiano:

1) Just 2 wins,

2) A hopeless offense (and I mean truly hopeless), fueled by an inexperienced and frightfully young offensive coordinator, almost ZERO experience at QB, RU's best offensive playmaker getting injured and out for the season ... in fact RU's ONLY real offensive playmaker, poor OL performance, and NO scholarship tight ends or fullbacks available.

3) A pitiful running defense, fueled by a lack of size and athleticism on the DL, literally ZERO experience or size, or depth for that matter, at LB - so when inevitable injuries occurred at LB players had to be pressed into duty who were not ready - or play injured, and youth and inexperience at DB.

4) An appallingly bad special teams play - made especially worse after J. Grant got hurt, fueled by no depth (requiring either tired starters or undersized underclassmen to play special teams), and no scholarship kickers.

5) Astonishingly lopsided scores against the best teams RU played, notably Ohio State and Michigan, but also Penn State and Wisconsin (and who am I missing?)

THIS season, though not all issues have close to resolved, the following items are in place that were lacking last season:

1) A new offensive coordinator who is a veteran coach and even an highly successful ex-head coach, a new and veteran and successful running backs coach, at least SOME experience at QB (2 QB's who have starts under their belt), some depth at WR, including the return of Grant, a 5th year transfer and several freshman WR's who are potential playmakers, 2 or even 3 scholarship tight ends. The OL still has work to do, of course - and the running backs have some talent but also proving to do.

2) On defense, though the DL still will have questions, the size has increased on the interior, and a healthy Turay MIGHT be more athleticism on the DL, and there is additional LB depth and experience (even though the talent may still be somewhat in question), and the DB's are more experienced and deeper.

3) On special teams, a 5th year transfer scholarship punter has been brought in, the overall team depth has increased, and Grant is back ... we will see abut the FG kicker.

Given all the above, I actually think it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for RU to have a worse season than last year. That does not mean RU will show improvement, but I am 100% certain Plum Street is simply wrong, and WAY over-negative (as he often is).
 
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Keep saying the same thing. Please look at each position. Who did we lose compared to who did we gain. QB, RB, WR, TE, LB, Secondary and of course all special teams are much improved. I don't see the lines as worse just a push. Now OP tell me again why you feel this year could be worse?
 
The schedule is just as hard this year as last year but the team should perform better per game. Hopefully not just perform better but actually win more than two games.

But the odds of being worse if extremely slim unless we get hit with a major injury bug and all of our starters go down, short of that, there is no way I can see us getting worse. Not even fans from around the Big Ten who hate us think we will be worse.

Besides Sir Negative McSourpuss, who really should find out who keeps pissing in his cereal bowl every morning.
 
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RuBird said:
Keep saying the same thing. Please look at each position. Who did we lose compared to who did we gain. QB, RB, WR, TE, LB, Secondary and of course all special teams are much improved. I don't see the lines as worse just a push. Now OP tell me again why you feel this year could be worse?
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Outside of secondary, you and no one else knows if we'll be improved at any position group.
However, the bar is set so low, especially special team coverage, it's almost impossible to not improve.
 
We will be a better team, though our record may not reflect it. I can't imagine being worse than last year. Was arguably the low point for RU Football in my lifetime.
 
zappaa said:
Outside of secondary, you and no one else knows if we'll be improved at any position group.
However, the bar is set so low, especially special team coverage, it's almost impossible to not improve.
Click to expand...

We don't even know if the secondary will be improved. They were the best unit last year, especially the corners, it does not mean that they will be improved this year. I think that they will.

But you can look at what changes have occurred from last year and make reasonable predictions if a unit will be improved, the same or worse. Quarterback should be better, bring back Gio and add Bolin and Lewis.
 
greenknight said:
Wrong
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What's wrong? You don't think we can beat last year's win total? That's the OP's point; that while unlikely, it could be worse this year than last year. While theoretically anything is possible, I'm saying with the strides Ash has made, coming away with 1 or no wins this season is going to be veeeery unlikely.
 
As a few others have said, there is a chance the record may not be improved by much but the team will be. It is almost impossible to be worst than we were last year.Hell, OSU, Wash, Mich may all still beat us by 40 pts but I'm willing to say that we will not perform worse.

We had one of the worst seasons I have ever seen in any sport last year. To not improve, we would almost have to try hard not to. Even a couple of small things will lead to improvement. Take a look at who was on our ST's coverage and return teams last year. Mostly walkons and freshman. Even if the same guys went out and were on these units again, they would all have so much more experience. That simple fact actually makes ST's better. I'm not going to go through all of the other things, I think Jelly did a good job.

It is also very strange to ever talk about past teams or coaches and how they did in year 2 vs year 1. I can't grasp how you can look at that and try to make an argument that the past can possibly have anything to do with this year's team. As others have said, we can see your angle. Allows you to be negative as shit no matter what the team does unless it makes a bowl.
 
3 wins is pretty much a lock. 2 wins means 0-7 in conference. Going 0-7 in conference two years in a row may be just as hard as going undefeated in conference two years in a row. Probably going to eke one out at home.
 
zappaa said:
Outside of secondary, you and no one else knows if we'll be improved at any position group.
However, the bar is set so low, especially special team coverage, it's almost impossible to not improve.
Click to expand...
Zap,
The competition and depth at every position is improved, with the only exception being DL. It could be argued that the DL will be much healthier considering Hamilton played injured and Turay was out most of the year. The only question for me is how much improved?
 
zappaa said:
Outside of secondary, you and no one else knows if we'll be improved at any position group.
However, the bar is set so low, especially special team coverage, it's almost impossible to not improve.
Click to expand...
Seriously? Again look at each position who did we lose compared to who did we gain? Bolin and Lewis or Laviano and Rettig. A slam dunk. Mtichell(s) and Bo Melton or Patton and Aggie. Again slam dunk ( although I think when used properly Aggie will have a productive NFL career). Washington compared to any of our prior TEs. Do I really need to continue. All I will say is having Kill, Anderson, Edwards, Bolin and Lewis makes our defense better. You won't see as many three and outs and when we have to punt, we should be able to pin the offense back. A much rested defense should do wonders for this team.

Folks it is really Ok to just let yourselves get a little excited.
 
jerzey devil said:
U want objectivity?
QB.. Upgrade...
RB..Upgrade...
WR.. Upgrade...
TE..Upgrade...
OL...coin flip...(I do believe that better skill players will keep defenses a lil more honest...taking a lil pressure off the OL....
DL..slight improvement...
LB...Upgrade...
DB...by far best unit...
P...upgrade...
K...not sure yet...
Click to expand...

Agree on QB and RB.

WR remains to be seen. Tons of potential, but nothing proven yet. We had more career receptions across the WR corps coming into last year than we do this year. Also, no telling how quickly Grant will back to 100%.

TE also remains to be seen, but have to think there will be more production just schematically. We have no TEs that have any on field productivity.

OL is definitely a coin flip, and there are a lot of factors at play. Adding a FB and using a TE more frequently will help them... as will (hopefully) have an OC that's more aligned with the OL coach. On the other hand, losing Muller and Nelson opens up two big holes on the line that need to be filled, and our OL depth hasn't been great.

DL is also a coin flip, but they may end up slightly ahead.

LB may also be a coin flip, with the loss of Maddox-Williams. Roberts is supposedly a new player coming into this year, but that remains to be seen after struggling with reads and positioning last year. Guys who didn't have a lot of great production last year are back, and hopefully better. We also have some guys coming off redshirt and some incoming freshmen throw into the mix, but that's a wait and see. LB was probably our weakest unit last year, so we hope the only way to move is up.

DB agree is the best unit and that P will be improved.

***

Overall, I think the team will be slightly improved (provided we don't have any other significant losses to injury) and will have a steadier hand at the offensive helm.... but what that will translate to in wins against a meat grinder schedule is tough. Right now, my gut tells me 4-8 with a chance at 5-7. 6-6 would really surprise me, and is probably our ceiling.
 
RUChoppin said:
Agree on QB and RB.

WR remains to be seen. Tons of potential, but nothing proven yet. We had more career receptions across the WR corps coming into last year than we do this year. Also, no telling how quickly Grant will back to 100%.

TE also remains to be seen, but have to think there will be more production just schematically. We have no TEs that have any on field productivity.

OL is definitely a coin flip, and there are a lot of factors at play. Adding a FB and using a TE more frequently will help them... as will (hopefully) have an OC that's more aligned with the OL coach. On the other hand, losing Muller and Nelson opens up two big holes on the line that need to be filled, and our OL depth hasn't been great.

DL is also a coin flip, but they may end up slightly ahead.

LB may also be a coin flip, with the loss of Maddox-Williams. Roberts is supposedly a new player coming into this year, but that remains to be seen after struggling with reads and positioning last year. Guys who didn't have a lot of great production last year are back, and hopefully better. We also have some guys coming off redshirt and some incoming freshmen throw into the mix, but that's a wait and see. LB was probably our weakest unit last year, so we hope the only way to move is up.

DB agree is the best unit and that P will be improved.

***

Overall, I think the team will be slightly improved (provided we don't have any other significant losses to injury) and will have a steadier hand at the offensive helm.... but what that will translate to in wins against a meat grinder schedule is tough. Right now, my gut tells me 4-8 with a chance at 5-7. 6-6 would really surprise me, and is probably our ceiling.
Click to expand...

pretty much most of my "upgrades" are based on talent and potential from last year to this year... WR and TE, I don't think It can be disputed that the talent levels at those positions are better than last years... Now, is it night and day difference? probably not.. But I believe the trickle down effect is how we'll be able to translate the improvement overall.. There isn't one unit on its own that is going to make an opposing DC go uh oh... But if we can combine minor improvements from all areas.. combined with an experienced B1G playcaller... It will make defenses have to be more honest against us...
 
jerzey devil said:
pretty much most of my "upgrades" are based on talent and potential from last year to this year... WR and TE, I don't think It can be disputed that the talent levels at those positions are better than last years... Now, is it night and day difference? probably not.. But I believe the trickle down effect is how we'll be able to translate the improvement overall.. There isn't one unit on its own that is going to make an opposing DC go uh oh... But if we can combine minor improvements from all areas.. combined with an experienced B1G playcaller... It will make defenses have to be more honest against us...
Click to expand...

WR is really a crapshoot. We've got Grant & Harris (who play basically the same position), and a list of question marks. Last year we had Patton, Grant, and a bunch of question marks. I'm much more optimistic about our question marks this year, and we have a deeper stable of guys who might potentially float to the top.... but until I see WRs running routes, getting open, and catching the ball.... it's anyone's guess how good we'll be there. Certainly don't think we'll be any worse than last year.

TE is a different story. DM didn't really use TEs much. Hardly ever as blocking, and the unit only had 16 receptions all season. Both guys who got time at TE last year are gone. In their place, we've got guys who haven't really seen the field at that position so far in their college careers. At the very least, they should be utilized more in blocking and in the passing game, so just the addition of Kill should boost the unit's value (especially after Kill's comment that they caught more balls in one practice than they did all of last year)... but really no idea what we're going to see out of these guys.
 
I think the only way we are worse than last year is if we have major issues with one or both of our lines. Sebastian Joseph HAS to have a good year. He's a physical monster and even Ash said he had a disappointing year last year. He put on 5 more pounds this year. Turay also has to stay healthy obviously. Deonte Roberts is the other key to the defense. He has to get better and from what I'm hearing he has.
 
RUChoppin said:
WR is really a crapshoot. We've got Grant & Harris (who play basically the same position), and a list of question marks. Last year we had Patton, Grant, and a bunch of question marks. I'm much more optimistic about our question marks this year, and we have a deeper stable of guys who might potentially float to the top.... but until I see WRs running routes, getting open, and catching the ball.... it's anyone's guess how good we'll be there. Certainly don't think we'll be any worse than last year.

TE is a different story. DM didn't really use TEs much. Hardly ever as blocking, and the unit only had 16 receptions all season. Both guys who got time at TE last year are gone. In their place, we've got guys who haven't really seen the field at that position so far in their college careers. At the very least, they should be utilized more in blocking and in the passing game, so just the addition of Kill should boost the unit's value (especially after Kill's comment that they caught more balls in one practice than they did all of last year)... but really no idea what we're going to see out of these guys.
Click to expand...

I never laid claim as to how good they will be.. Just that this position has more talent than it did last year..
 
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I love people saying this year could be worse. Do we only win 1 game? Get blown out in games 90-0. We scored 188 points last year (52 against Howard). 4 blowout B1G losses.

Someone needs to explain to me how it can be worse. Look at the influx of talent between transfers and freshman Fogg, Lewis, Bolin, Edwards, both Mitchells, Anderson, Lewis, Melton

We upgraded out OC by leaps and bounds. Our players have another year of strength and conditioning.

Grant is back healthy.


Again I am begging someone to tell me how this year is going to be worse
 
Man, the whining on here is going to be at an all-time high during this season. Some of you expect recruits out of what is a mediocre recruiting class (by P5 standards) to come in as 18 & 19 year olds and immediately be up to B1G standards. Melton - he is going to be good - but even as the jewel of the class is going to be a true frosh and have his ups and downs. Lewis - if they have to play him, it's going to be ugly. And people expect Grant - a guy who has 1 receiving TD in his career - to come in and elevate an entire team out of a position that is very difficult to have a consistent impact on a game.

It's going to be a difficult year for some of you on here. And the blame will probably unjustly fall on Ash. The RU plan for success is to do a good job recruiting some solid kids who will develop into good players in their 3rd, 4th & 5th years so they can compete in the B1G. That is a ways off.
 
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dicemen99 said:
Man, the whining on here is going to be at an all-time high during this season. Some of you expect recruits out of what is a mediocre recruiting class (by P5 standards) to come in as 18 & 19 year olds and immediately be up to B1G standards. Melton - he is going to be good - but even as the jewel of the class is going to be a true frosh and have his ups and downs. Lewis - if they have to play him, it's going to be ugly. And people expect Grant - a guy who has 1 receiving TD in his career - to come in and elevate an entire team out of a position that is very difficult to have a consistent impact on a game.

It's going to be a difficult year for some of you on here. And the blame will probably unjustly fall on Ash. The RU plan for success is to do a good job recruiting some solid kids who will develop into good players in their 3rd, 4th & 5th years so they can compete in the B1G. That is a ways off.
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You do realize how many TD returns Grant has. That is just as important to this team. You talk a lot about the freshmen but failed to discuss the transfers who are just as important to this team. Again it is Ok to show a little excitement for this team. I am not saying we are going to be world beaters but this thread was about year 2 and being worse then year 1. Not going to happen
 
RuBird said:
You do realize how many TD returns Grant has. That is just as important to this team. You talk a lot about the freshmen but failed to discuss the transfers who are just as important to this team. Again it is Ok to show a little excitement for this team. I am not saying we are going to be world beaters but this thread was about year 2 and being worse then year 1. Not going to happen
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Yes, I do. And I also realize he's not going to have as many as you seem to believe. The NCAA leader in KO & PR TDs combined the last five years was 4 (in each of the seasons).

Transfers are transfers for a reason.

I believe the record may be slightly better this year, just because it will be so hard to be equal or worse. But in regards to B1G ready talent level it may be worse.
 
dicemen99 said:
Yes, I do. And I also realize he's not going to have as many as you seem to believe. The NCAA leader in KO & PR TDs combined the last five years was 4 (in each of the seasons).

Transfers are transfers for a reason.

I believe the record may be slightly better this year, just because it will be so hard to be equal or worse. But in regards to B1G ready talent level it may be worse.
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Who exactly did we lose that makes this years talent less ready?
I stated the touchdowns for Grant but it is just as important to realize he is a game changer on special teams.

"Transfers are transfers for a reason" is a blanket statement that makes no sense. Numerous QB transfers in college football have made a huge difference for their new team. D. Mitchell, Washington and Anderson will be starters for this team.
 
Wow. The infighting has started early ..Again. Basketball and wrestling will save us. Enjoy the next 10 games.Should be fun
 
Plum Street said:
Not saying that is going to happen, but it happens. Shea and flood year one looked better than year 2, well lots of years looked bad with those guys. But our savior schiano it was buffanova and the guy fielding the kickoff and running out of bounds at our 4 yard line in one of those games.
So it can look worse this year than last, even if some progress is apparently being made. Surprised mostly threads on us being optimistic, and their are reasons . But not many threads on the possibility that year 2 can look worse.
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this this post shows you really don't know anything. The program is fundamentally and vastly different than the two aforementioned coaches. Our Coach Sucks
 
doesn't have to be, just look at Maryland football, Ash will and should be, always compared to Durkin, who hired experienced coaches from the start
 
Knight Shift said:
0_big.jpg
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lol knight shift , so wrong .
You're a good guy though and mean well
 
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