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COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

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To say if you just don't eat you will lose weight is not very helpful and an over simplification. If a person just doesn't eat they will lose weight, the will also die, so I think your cure is worse than the problem. Weight issues have to do with physical, psychological and other issues such as lifestyle.

Saying just don't eat and lose weight is like saying to some posters (they will remain nameless) "just post more intelligently", Some posters just don't have the capacity and because of emotional, upbringing and other things that affect their personalities and intellectual capacity, it's much harder for them and they end up clogging the board. :)[roll]
 
Saw someone posted this earlier. What's up with this new CDC info that 94% of deaths had contributing conditions. “For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVOD-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.” Yikes


They also have pneumonia listed. I’m surprised this is not 100%. I though all people who die from Covid essentially die from pneumonia.
 
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They also have pneumonia listed. I’m surprised this is not 100%. I though all people who die from Covid essentially die from pneumonia.

In laymens terms... They didnt die cause they got Covid19... But cause their underlying conditions were exacberated by Covid19...
 
No, actually you're really wrong (and I might have to invoke the spirit of @willisneverrana43 here). Do you seriously not get it that if one doesn't get infected by COVID that one can't die from COVID? Look at the table below, which shows exactly what I said in my previous post. Countries in the table with very low death rates per capita (<10 deaths/1MM) all have <600 cases/1MM, and every country with under 600 cases/1MM has under 20 deaths/1MM, even including the rest not listed below (I had to cut some small countries out to keep the table sized reasonably). On the flip side all moderate/large (>50MM people) countries with over 4000 cases per 1MM have over 250 deaths/1MM (except Russia and nobody trusts Russia's numbers); there are some outliers with <50MM people and >4000 cases/1MM that don't have over 250 deaths.

Again, this doesn't mean your other points are invalid - this is about relative importance and it's far, far, far more important to not catch the virus if one wants to survive (or not become quite ill) than it is to be fit, especially if one is over 50 or so. Yes, we should do better publicizing comorbidities and educate people about them, but it seems like we've been doing that forever with minor impact. And I agree with all your other points, except you forgot masking, when one can't guarantee distancing.

As an aside, the case fatality rate (deaths/cases) doesn't reflect the impact on underlying conditions in the US at all, as we're kind of on the low end, although, I think some of that is because case numbers can be skewed a bit. plus demographics are also tied up in those numbers (a big part of why Italy's CFR is so high). My point is comborbidities might double death rates in one country vs. another with other variables held fairly constant (like age), but these differences pale vs. the 10-20-50X or more differences in deaths per capita for the very low cases per capita countries vs. the US and other high death rate countries.

MxzvHTB.png

LOL China...85k......
 
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I would assume that some of these excess deaths are in eldery patients with dementia or other issues in nursing homes where neglect led to their deaths....can someone give me the age range of the excess deaths from this year..thanks

knowing from my own experience with my mother, she didnt have coronavirus but her death was hasten by the lockdown where no one could be an advocate for her in the hospital

I assume that these kind of scenerios happened in nursing homes and in peoples own homes.
 
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I would assume that some of these excess deaths are in eldery patients with dementia or other issues in nursing homes where neglect led to their deaths....can someone give me the age range of the excess deaths from this year..thanks

knowing from my own experience with my mother, she didnt have coronavirus but her death was hasten by the lockdown where no one could be an advocate for her in the hospital

I assume that these kind of scenerios happened in nursing homes and in peoples own homes.
Another faulty assumption there is no evidence that any dementia patients were neglected to the point of dying as a result.
 
Saw someone posted this earlier. What's up with this new CDC info that 94% of deaths had contributing conditions. “For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVOD-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.” Yikes

Another faulty assumption there is no evidence that any dementia patients were neglected to the point of dying as a result.
Greg: The reason there is no evidence available on possible neglect of dementia patients is because no one has done an investigation on it. To be honest that is an off limits issue in NY and NJ. Why would that be? There is a reason why the deaths in nursing care or as some call it LTC are drastically higher in those two above states.
 
Another faulty assumption there is no evidence that any dementia patients were neglected to the point of dying as a result.


its not faulty at all, makes tons of sense...do you even know anything

older folk need stimulation, if they are not getting it or seeing their loved ones for days or weeks or months or not getting contact locked up wearing masks, they quickly will deteriorate
 
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its not faulty at all, makes tons of sense...do you even know anything

older folk need stimulation, if they are not getting it or seeing their loved ones for days or weeks or months or not getting contact locked up wearing masks, they quickly will deteriorate
Both my grandparents are above 90, have had nothing but phone calls for months and live by themselves and are doing fine. Old folk are dying enmasse from the corona virus plague not from being bored.
 
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its not faulty at all, makes tons of sense...do you even know anything

older folk need stimulation, if they are not getting it or seeing their loved ones for days or weeks or months or not getting contact locked up wearing masks, they quickly will deteriorate

Do you know anything? You can't just make an assumption and then use it to explain things.

For the entirety of the pandemic, it's been accepted that excess deaths for the year would correspond to Covid. Now that the picture isn't looking your way, you're going to "assume" it away? No.
 
Greg: The reason there is no evidence available on possible neglect of dementia patients is because no one has done an investigation on it. To be honest that is an off limits issue in NY and NJ. Why would that be? There is a reason why the deaths in nursing care or as some call it LTC are drastically higher in those two above states.
Deaths overall in those two states are higher. Deaths in LTC facilities, as a percentage of total deaths, are average or below average in those two states. This has been discussed ad nauseam. Have you missed that? If so happy to do a quick search and find the links for you.
 
I've probably made 100 posts on convalescent plasma since March and have probably been one of CP's biggest advocates, but all along I've also lamented that we hadn't figured out a way to run a randomized, controlled trial. Also, the Times article wasn't "wrong" - there was intense debate about whether the FDA should grant the emergency use authorization and Fauci, Collins and Lane were all concerned with granting it due to the lack of a convincing RCT to date, as they reported.

Having said that, I think the emergency use authorization was still the right step, given very strong signals of efficacy (especially the dose-response data in the high titer vs. low titer antibodies from CP study recently published by the Mayo Clinic folks). Interesting Twitter thread on this involving Dr. Casadeval, from Johns Hopkins, the engine behind getting this all going in March. Especially thought the tweet from Dr. Hotez, a major medical figure throughout the pandemic was insightful, basically saying the data aren't perfect, but if he had COVID, he'd want CP - I feel the same way. It's unfortunate that this is becoming a political football.


Was very happy to see FDA Commissioner Hahn publicly acknowledging his mistaken take on plasma last night in a tweet tonight, after much criticism today in the scientific community (like the article above and the one from the Times earlier today). This was a huge, important step for those concerned about the independence of the Agency.



Interesting update on convalescent plasma in an article today by Arturo Casadevall (Johns Hopkins) one of the main champions of getting the plasma effort going back in March. He certainly acknowledges that the case would be stronger for the emergency use approval given the other day for CP if there had been a randomized/controlled trial (RCT), but he makes several points that are important for why he thinks there is enough evidence to go ahead.

These include: i) the clear dose-response relationship in the recent Mayo Clinic data analysis, where mortality was reduced for patients receiving retrospectively determined higher antibody-level transfusions (akin to a randomization after the fact); ii) the meta analysis of multiple RCTs and matched control studies shows a 57% mortality reduction; iii) the technology is absolutely safe and has been used successfully in other infectious diseases, and iv) all of the in vitro and animal study data show clear efficacy and v) the current expanded access program is only readily available in wealthier locations/hospitals, meaning understaffed hospitals and underserved populations generally haven't had access to this promising treatment.

 
Deaths overall in those two states are higher. Deaths in LTC facilities, as a percentage of total deaths, are average or below average in those two states. This has been discussed ad nauseam. Have you missed that? If so happy to do a quick search and find the links for you.
You are avoiding the obvious about possible abuse of dementia patients due to stress in LTC facilities . It was not specifically about deaths ... Other than NY and NJ what other states had higher death totals amongst LTC facilities ? NJ hovers around 7200 and NY If I recall was perhaps twice that number. I would suspect that those dementia patients would require more care and as I said the virus placed another level of stress upon understaffed nursing facilities. Truth be told most of these care units don’t like people from outside or family members knowing too much. That I learned when my father developed dementia at 87-88 ...
 
You are avoiding the obvious about possible abuse of dementia patients due to stress in LTC facilities . It was not specifically about deaths ... Other than NY and NJ what other states had higher death totals amongst LTC facilities ? NJ hovers around 7200 and NY If I recall was perhaps twice that number. I would suspect that those dementia patients would require more care and as I said the virus placed another level of stress upon understaffed nursing facilities. Truth be told most of these care units don’t like people from outside or family members knowing too much. That I learned when my father developed dementia at 87-88 ...
I think he meant percentages of deaths
 
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That "damn pandemic playbook."..riiiight...like the one from O'Biden-Bama in handling the swine flu pandemic?

60 Million Americans Got Swine Flu, Obama and Biden Stopped Testing
A report by CBS in 2009 said the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) told states to stop testing. Levin quoted the CBS reporter Sharyl Attkinson, “In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for the H1N1 flu and stop counting individual cases.”

“The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was 'why waste resources testing for the swine flu when the government has already confirmed that there is an epidemic?'”

“But Obama, Biden said no more testing, therefore no more reporting on the consequences. This is so damning. This is so damning.”

Top Biden Advisor: Yeah, We Really Screwed Up Swine Flu and are Lucky More Americans Didn't Die
"I wasn't involved directly in the H1N1 response but I lived through it as a White House staffer and what I would say about it is a bunch of really talented, really great people were working on it and we did every possible thing wrong. Sixty million Americans got H1N1 during that period of time. It is purely a fortuity that this isn’t one of the great mass casualty events in American history. It had nothing to do with us doing anything right. It was just luck. "


Note most of the "luck" was there were antivirals for treating swine flu on the market for a decade.

Good thing I post elsewhere, since my posts on Swine Flu/H1N1 were mostly on the CE board. Contrary to what Klain said (and he admitted he wasn't involved in the H1N1 response), H1N1 was handled quite well by the Obama Administration. With regard to testing, as per the wiki page on this, the first US case was 4/17 (and it hit the US earlier than almost anywhere, as it started in Mexico in early Spring) and the CDC had test kits out to all 50 states by 5/6, a mere 3 weeks later, way faster than we had testing available for COVID (it took ~6 weeks: first US case on 1/21 and testing widely available in early March - and it took 8-9 weeks to have testing volume at a barely adequate level).

And with regard to reducing testing in July, by then it was clear that the outbreak was no worse than any typical flu (and in fact it ended up being less deadly than a typical flu, partly due to fast development/deployment of a vaccine), so investing tons of resources on testing everyone didn't seem to be worth the investment at that point H1N1 ended up being even less worse than a normal flu season with 12,000 deaths vs an "average" flu season of 34,000 deaths (with twice as many people infected, so the infection fatality ratio was around 0.025 vs. 0.1 for flu). These were the words of Canadian expert Dr. Rau in late April:

"I don't agree with (the WHO) because I think it's a panic metre, not a pandemic metre. [...] If that flu-like illness is not deadly, I don't know what the cause for alarm is for people who are not really sickened by this virus. [...] I'm really eager to know how much worse this is than seasonal flu. So far it's looking like it's not that serious."



They didn't declare a national emergency right away because they didn't need to (they did declare a public health emergency to secure the needed funding); they also spearheaded an incredible effort by the CDC/FDA and private vaccine makers to bring a vaccine on-line in 6 months in time for the fall flu season. And, of course, we got "lucky" that it wasn't far worse, but we have no idea how the Obama/Biden administration would've responded to a COVID-like pandemic. Based on the very fast rollout of testing and record speed for a vaccine, I'd like to think they would have done very well.

More details are in the linked article below, which is excerpted in italics.


𝘊𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘳𝘺 𝘵𝘰 𝘛𝘳𝘶𝘮𝘱’𝘴 𝘴𝘶𝘨𝘨𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘖𝘣𝘢𝘮𝘢 𝘢𝘥𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘥𝘪𝘥 “𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨,” 𝘰𝘧𝘧𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘥𝘦𝘤𝘭𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘥 𝘢 𝘱𝘶𝘣𝘭𝘪𝘤 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘭𝘵𝘩 𝘦𝘮𝘦𝘳𝘨𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺 𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘭𝘺 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘏1𝘕1 𝘰𝘶𝘵𝘣𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘬, 𝘴𝘦𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘦𝘥 𝘧𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘊𝘰𝘯𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘶𝘭𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘥𝘦𝘤𝘭𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘥 𝘢 𝘯𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘦𝘮𝘦𝘳𝘨𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺, 𝘢𝘴 𝘸𝘦’𝘭𝘭 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘣𝘦𝘭𝘰𝘸.
𝘖𝘯 𝘵𝘰𝘱 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵, 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘊𝘋𝘊 𝘴𝘦𝘲𝘶𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘦𝘸 𝘷𝘪𝘳𝘶𝘴, 𝘤𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘬𝘪𝘵𝘴, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘍𝘰𝘰𝘥 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘋𝘳𝘶𝘨 𝘈𝘥𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘢𝘱𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘥 𝘮𝘶𝘭𝘵𝘪𝘱𝘭𝘦 𝘷𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘴, 𝘢𝘮𝘰𝘯𝘨 𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴.

𝘙𝘦𝘱. 𝘔𝘪𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘦𝘭 𝘉𝘶𝘳𝘨𝘦𝘴𝘴, 𝘢 𝘙𝘦𝘱𝘶𝘣𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘛𝘦𝘹𝘢𝘴, 𝘱𝘳𝘢𝘪𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘊𝘋𝘊 𝘢𝘵 𝘢 𝘏𝘰𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 2016 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘤𝘬𝘭𝘺 𝘥𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘭𝘰𝘱𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢 𝘷𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘪𝘯𝘦 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘸𝘪𝘯𝘦 𝘧𝘭𝘶 𝘪𝘯 𝘢𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘴𝘪𝘹 𝘮𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘩𝘴 — 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘰𝘭 𝘺𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘪𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘱𝘵𝘦𝘮𝘣𝘦𝘳 2009. “𝘚𝘰 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵’𝘴 𝘢 6-𝘮𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘩 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘧𝘳𝘢𝘮𝘦 𝘪𝘧 𝘐’𝘮 𝘥𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘮𝘺 𝘮𝘢𝘵𝘩 𝘤𝘰𝘳𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘪𝘧𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘨𝘦𝘯𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘤 𝘴𝘦𝘲𝘶𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘷𝘪𝘳𝘶𝘴, 𝘳𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘦 𝘦𝘯𝘨𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘦𝘳 𝘢 𝘷𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘪𝘯𝘦, 𝘵𝘦𝘴𝘵 𝘪𝘵, 𝘢𝘴𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘵𝘴 𝘴𝘢𝘧𝘦𝘵𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘦𝘧𝘧𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘤𝘺, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘨𝘦𝘵 𝘪𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘴𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘰𝘭 𝘵𝘦𝘢𝘤𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘴 𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘦𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘥 𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘬 𝘰𝘧 𝘴𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘰𝘭. 𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘵’𝘴 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘵𝘵𝘺 𝘪𝘮𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘷𝘦,” 𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘢𝘪𝘥.
 
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Both my grandparents are above 90, have had nothing but phone calls for months and live by themselves and are doing fine. Old folk are dying enmasse from the corona virus plague not from being bored.
You haven’t seen them in months, how do you know they are doing ok?
 
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Good thing I post elsewhere, since my posts on Swine Flu/H1N1 were mostly on the CE board. Contrary to what Klain said (and he admitted he wasn't involved in the H1N1 response), H1N1 was handled quite well by the Obama Administration. With regard to testing, as per the wiki page on this, the first US case was 4/17 (and it hit the US earlier than almost anywhere, as it started in Mexico in early Spring) and the CDC had test kits out to all 50 states by 5/6, a mere 3 weeks later, way faster than we had testing available for COVID (it took ~6 weeks: first US case on 1/21 and testing widely available in early March - and it took 8-9 weeks to have testing volume at a barely adequate level).

And with regard to reducing testing in July, by then it was clear that the outbreak was no worse than any typical flu (and in fact it ended up being less deadly than a typical flu, partly due to fast development/deployment of a vaccine), so investing tons of resources on testing everyone didn't seem to be worth the investment at that point H1N1 ended up being even less worse than a normal flu season with 12,000 deaths vs an "average" flu season of 34,000 deaths (with twice as many people infected, so the infection fatality ratio was around 0.025 vs. 0.1 for flu). These were the words of Canadian expert Dr. Rau in late April:

"I don't agree with (the WHO) because I think it's a panic metre, not a pandemic metre. [...] If that flu-like illness is not deadly, I don't know what the cause for alarm is for people who are not really sickened by this virus. [...] I'm really eager to know how much worse this is than seasonal flu. So far it's looking like it's not that serious."



They didn't declare a national emergency right away because they didn't need to (they did declare a public health emergency to secure the needed funding); they also spearheaded an incredible effort by the CDC/FDA and private vaccine makers to bring a vaccine on-line in 6 months in time for the fall flu season. And, of course, we got "lucky" that it wasn't far worse, but we have no idea how the Obama/Biden administration would've responded to a COVID-like pandemic. Based on the very fast rollout of testing and record speed for a vaccine, I'd like to think they would have done very well.

More details are in the linked article below, which is excerpted in italics.


𝘊𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘳𝘺 𝘵𝘰 𝘛𝘳𝘶𝘮𝘱’𝘴 𝘴𝘶𝘨𝘨𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘖𝘣𝘢𝘮𝘢 𝘢𝘥𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘥𝘪𝘥 “𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨,” 𝘰𝘧𝘧𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘥𝘦𝘤𝘭𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘥 𝘢 𝘱𝘶𝘣𝘭𝘪𝘤 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘭𝘵𝘩 𝘦𝘮𝘦𝘳𝘨𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺 𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘭𝘺 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘏1𝘕1 𝘰𝘶𝘵𝘣𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘬, 𝘴𝘦𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘦𝘥 𝘧𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘊𝘰𝘯𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘶𝘭𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘥𝘦𝘤𝘭𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘥 𝘢 𝘯𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘦𝘮𝘦𝘳𝘨𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺, 𝘢𝘴 𝘸𝘦’𝘭𝘭 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘣𝘦𝘭𝘰𝘸.
𝘖𝘯 𝘵𝘰𝘱 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵, 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘊𝘋𝘊 𝘴𝘦𝘲𝘶𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘦𝘸 𝘷𝘪𝘳𝘶𝘴, 𝘤𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘬𝘪𝘵𝘴, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘍𝘰𝘰𝘥 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘋𝘳𝘶𝘨 𝘈𝘥𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘢𝘱𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘥 𝘮𝘶𝘭𝘵𝘪𝘱𝘭𝘦 𝘷𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘴, 𝘢𝘮𝘰𝘯𝘨 𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴.

𝘙𝘦𝘱. 𝘔𝘪𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘦𝘭 𝘉𝘶𝘳𝘨𝘦𝘴𝘴, 𝘢 𝘙𝘦𝘱𝘶𝘣𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘛𝘦𝘹𝘢𝘴, 𝘱𝘳𝘢𝘪𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘊𝘋𝘊 𝘢𝘵 𝘢 𝘏𝘰𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 2016 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘤𝘬𝘭𝘺 𝘥𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘭𝘰𝘱𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢 𝘷𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘪𝘯𝘦 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘸𝘪𝘯𝘦 𝘧𝘭𝘶 𝘪𝘯 𝘢𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘴𝘪𝘹 𝘮𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘩𝘴 — 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘰𝘭 𝘺𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘪𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘱𝘵𝘦𝘮𝘣𝘦𝘳 2009. “𝘚𝘰 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵’𝘴 𝘢 6-𝘮𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘩 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘧𝘳𝘢𝘮𝘦 𝘪𝘧 𝘐’𝘮 𝘥𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘮𝘺 𝘮𝘢𝘵𝘩 𝘤𝘰𝘳𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘪𝘧𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘨𝘦𝘯𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘤 𝘴𝘦𝘲𝘶𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘷𝘪𝘳𝘶𝘴, 𝘳𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘦 𝘦𝘯𝘨𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘦𝘳 𝘢 𝘷𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘪𝘯𝘦, 𝘵𝘦𝘴𝘵 𝘪𝘵, 𝘢𝘴𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘵𝘴 𝘴𝘢𝘧𝘦𝘵𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘦𝘧𝘧𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘤𝘺, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘨𝘦𝘵 𝘪𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘴𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘰𝘭 𝘵𝘦𝘢𝘤𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘴 𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘦𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘥 𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘬 𝘰𝘧 𝘴𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘰𝘭. 𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘵’𝘴 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘵𝘵𝘺 𝘪𝘮𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘷𝘦,” 𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘢𝘪𝘥.

We were lucky because swine flu was not as lethal and there were antivirals in the market for a decade to treat it right when it started. Period. By Oct 2009--before the flu season in the U.S. --22 million Americans were infected with swine flu of 60 million overall. Imagine those numbers infected with chicomvirus.

As for the vaccines, according to the CDC: "Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 monovalent vaccine approvals were made on the basis of standards developed for vaccine strain changes for seasonal influenza vaccines, adherence to manufacturing processes, product quality testing, and lot release procedures developed for seasonal vaccines. The age groups, precautions, and contraindications approved for the influenza A (H1N1) 2009 monovalent vaccine are identical to those approved for seasonal vaccines. All influenza vaccines available in the United States for the 2009--10 influenza season are produced using embryonated hen's eggs and contain residual egg protein.

Preliminary data indicate that the immunogenicity and safety of these vaccines are similar to those of seasonal influenza vaccines."


Chicomvirus isn't comparable to any seasonal influenza. Who knows how effective the Obama vaccines would've been against a more deadly virus. And I'll defer to you on this question: Are we able to use eggs today for the chicomvirus vaccines?
 
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Murphy came out publicly and stated the State of Emergency won't go away until deaths get to zero and remain there. This is patently ridiculous, we'll never get back to normal and he'll rule indefinitely by emergency powers. If this decision is governed by science, why don't we shut down the state every winter to ensure flu deaths remain at zero?

The good news is this has apparently PO'd both republican and democratic leadership in the state and they are likely going to push a bill through to require Legislature approval in order to extend the SOE.
 
Murphy came out publicly and stated the State of Emergency won't go away until deaths get to zero and remain there. This is patently ridiculous, we'll never get back to normal and he'll rule indefinitely by emergency powers. If this decision is governed by science, why don't we shut down the state every winter to ensure flu deaths remain at zero?

The good news is this has apparently PO'd both republican and democratic leadership in the state and they are likely going to push a bill through to require Legislature approval in order to extend the SOE.
Yes, Sweeney is really losing his patience with Murphy.
 
How hard is it for some to understand that obesity is a very complex issue. Personal responsibility is just one of a number of factors.

Any person over the age of 45 who struggles with their weight will tell you that personal responsibility will only take you so far. Genetics, metabolism, food ingredients and underlying health conditions are just as important, if not more important.

Many studies show that obese people are some of the most disciplined and motivated people in many aspects of their lives.

Yes, personal responsibility plays a role but the issue is far far more complicated than that which is why obesity levels have skyrocketed over the past 30 years.

So why do we have about 5,000 post about this in a thread about COVID?
cuz t2k is proud of losing his moobs?
 
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Murphy came out publicly and stated the State of Emergency won't go away until deaths get to zero and remain there. This is patently ridiculous, we'll never get back to normal and he'll rule indefinitely by emergency powers. If this decision is governed by science, why don't we shut down the state every winter to ensure flu deaths remain at zero?

The good news is this has apparently PO'd both republican and democratic leadership in the state and they are likely going to push a bill through to require Legislature approval in order to extend the SOE.
Show your work - I haven't seen any quote from Murphy to that effect or by legislators on a bill on SOEs. Also, a SOE generally just allows the Governor to mobilize resources to respond to a disaster.
 
Wow, NZ really screwed up their economy. Poor leadership.
@SkilletHead2

That article was about the first lockdown in March/April - nothing new. Pretty sure the latest outbreak in Auckland hasn't changed the minds of Skillet or most other Kiwis with regard to their very positive view of their government's response and their Prime Minister. Most of us in the US would kill for a leader like Ardern.

Hi Guys,

Here in NZ we've just had a small outbreak of cases after 102 days being COVID-free.

When we had a real outbreak a couple of months ago, the Prime Minister just came out and said, "We are going hard and we are going early. We are a team of five million and we are going to beat this. Here is the plan....." We went to what we call Level 4 Alert which meant total lockdown except for getting food and essentials. Social distancing when we did. We didn't use masks as at that time it was thought they weren't helpful. But it was, "Stay in your home." And the vast majority of people did that. And after about six weeks or so, we had no more community transmission. So then we went back to Level 1, which is life as normal except for people coming into the country. They have to quarantine at a hotel for two weeks and then test negative.

So we would get a few cases every day in the new arrivals, but nothing else. That ended about a week ago when four new cases appeared in Auckland basically out of nowhere. We immediately went to Level three in Auckland (basically lockdown) and Level 2 everywhere else (social distancing, now wearing masks, but businesses can operate). We just heard we will be there for 12 more days and then see where we are.

We have two huge advantages down here. First, we have a 250 mile moat around the country. Pretty hard to sneak in here. Second, we have a leader who damn near everybody loves and who is working her rear end off to keep us safe. Also have a great national health director. We are operating on the best available science, and almost everybody is sticking to the rules (wouldn't be "good form" to do otherwise).

We haven't figured out how this new outbreak occurred, but we know it comes from the UK or Australia (ratbag Aussies!). I think someone from one of the planes bringing Kiwis back home had contact with this group somehow, but who knows.

We are temporarily back to online teaching for the most part, but I hope that in two weeks we'll go back to Level 1. But that will be determined by what happens with infections. If it looks at all worse, my guess is that the PM will put us back on Level 4 across the nation. And we'll do it. Because it is so great to be back to Level 1.

Our economy is hurting because it is so dependent on tourism, but Kiwis (God bless 'em) are pitching in by going to the resort areas more than they usually would to help out.

We have our problems in NZ, but it is really a hell of a nice country.
 
So a post in the Alabama thread got me looking at the US deaths over the course of this thing, and wondering if people think that death rates at these points would demand a change of action.

Peak 7dma for deaths in April was over 2200. Which would equate to about 800,000 deaths over a full year.

At the trough in July we were around 530 deaths per day, which equates to 188K deaths over a full year.

At the height of the 2nd wave we were over 1200, but we are currently a little under 1000, so just as an average of these 2 #'s, let's say 400K covid deaths over a full year?

Now you do have to factor in age cohorts, and we all know this predominantly effects older folk. But still 800K would make it the leading killer in the country and I think a # where society as a whole would agree that we need to tighten things up implement measures to get this under control.

The 188K total would still make it the 3rd leading killer in this country(though significantly less then heart disease which kills around 650K) but might be a number where people would say we need to open up. That the restrictions we have in place are worse then the virus itself.

But the current average of around 400K is interesting. Yes it's mostly old folk, but that is still a big #, again ranking it 3rd in terms of annual deaths. And that # has come despite a fair amount of mitigation practices in place(in some states more then others). Now again we see different states with different restrictions, so maybe asking the question of "does this require more or less restrictions?" is not really applicable, but in general are we as a society OK that 400K people would die from Covid?
There is a lot of bad math and science in that post!!
 
Show your work - I haven't seen any quote from Murphy to that effect or by legislators on a bill on SOEs. Also, a SOE generally just allows the Governor to mobilize resources to respond to a disaster.


Been trying to find the full transcript of his quoted soundbites in the article but I can't find them.

And yes, I'm aware the SOE is to free up resources. My main point is that a tacit goal of sustained zero deaths will likely be unattainable for the foreseeable future even if cases drop to a negligible amount. Aiming to keep deaths low is a different story and should be the true goal. But if we are basing reopening decisions on a tacit goal of zero deaths, we will likely never return to pre-covid norms, hence my comparison to flu deaths (strictly as a policy comparison, I'm 100% aware that "it's not the flu").
 


ill find the ny times story after i come back from the gym unless someone else finds it, I dont find the NY Times credible usually especially after todays gaslighting about protestors needing protection from right wing mobs but they did come up with one article that got very little attention that is referred to in the tweet I posted
 
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