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I miss Gary waters

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Spare130

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Dec 1, 2012
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His teams always gave 100% at all times. They played as a team and we're never lacking fundamentals. The home court advantage was top notch back then and we had a chance to win every home game we played.

I know he's been gone for ten years already and it's old news but we have had ZERO winning seasons since he left. The fun was there while he was at the helm and interest was at an all time high. One of the most underrated things about him was his ability to surround himself with a good staff.

Aaaaahhh the good old days.
 
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He was a good coach and most notably a great person. I had the pleasure of meeting him at a function and you could not find a nicer person. He got screwed over with that whole Fred Hill Jr. fiasco.
 
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Please stop . Waters is better than what we have now , but was part of the problem here . Much of his limited success was with bannon players and he had 2 awful years in his first 4 years . We could have played Connecticut School for the blind on the road in a confernce road game and waters would find a way to lose . He couldn't recruit at Rutgers and he is the one that put Fred hill on his staff ( people will say Fred was forced on him so please find documented proof that he was ). Gary was a good coach , just not a good fit here . He usually had the team competitive at the rac against anyone , that was nice.
 
Some coaches have been better than others and Wenzel caught lightning in a bottle for a year or so but we have not had a good coach here since Tom Young.
 
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I used to think it was amazing that Wenzel had Eddie Jordan and Jeff Van Gundy on his staff, as both obviously became NBA head coaches.

I wondered how much of Wenzel's success was due to their coaching, especially when we made the tournament twice.

Now, it doesn't seem like Jordan probably contributed much (I know that sounds harsh). I'm sure he played a role, but I'm talking about teaching X's and O's, fundamentals development in practice, motivation, in game coaching (the things we complain are missing today).

Does anyone know how much Van Gundy contributed to those things, or how instrumental he was to our success?

Van Gundy is by far my favorite NBA announcer because he has such a tremendous knowledge of the game. So much so, it is hard to fathom he actually coached for us, and since he did, it seems like he must have played a huge role, but I have no inside knowledge.

Does anyone know?

Thanks
 
The goal in college basketball is a NCAA bid which hasn't happened at Rutgers since 1991.All the coaches since that time failed to recruit top tier players which has resulted in utter failure in the Big East,AAC and now the B1G.Coaches and players have come and gone but the results remain the same.I still have my Waters Pressure tee shirt.
 
Plum Street said:
Please stop . Waters is better than what we have now , but was part of the problem here . Much of his limited success was with bannon players and he had 2 awful years in his first 4 years . We could have played Connecticut School for the blind on the road in a confernce road game and waters would find a way to lose . He couldn't recruit at Rutgers and he is the one that put Fred hill on his staff ( people will say Fred was forced on him so please find documented proof that he was ). Gary was a good coach , just not a good fit here . He usually had the team competitive at the rac against anyone , that was nice.
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Douby and N'diaye were our first two NBA players since John Battle. Both recruited by Gary. Webb, Coleman, Farmer, Adrian Hill, Inman (ruined by FHjr), Joynes....Gary was not a bad recruiter and was getting the hang of it after a couple early missteps.

Look, you don't have to be a Waters fan, but don't be disenguous. The reality is the guy had the most successful run here since Rutgers joined the Big East. And that is now over two decades ago. He has 348 college wins, a .570 winning percentage, 3 NCAA tournament appearances, and 7 NIT appearances. Gary was and is a good coach.
 
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RutgHoops said:
Douby and N'diaye were our first two NBA players since John Battle. Both recruited by Gary. Webb, Coleman, Farmer, Adrian Hill, Inman (ruined by FHjr), Joynes....Gary was not a bad recruiter and was getting the hang of it after a couple early missteps.

Look, you don't have to be a Waters fan, but don't be disenguous. The reality is the guy had the most successful run here since Rutgers joined the Big East. And that is now over two decades ago. He has 348 college wins, a .570 winning percentage, 3 NCAA tournament appearances, and 7 NIT appearances. Gary was and is a good coach.
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His record at RU was better than what followed him, but it wasn't anything to make me think he should be praised highly, just not deserving of being thought of as a bad coach.
Two losing seasons in his five years and not reaching the NCAA tourney in any of them doesn't make me yearn for the Waters days, but feel his tenure was better than what followed.
Gary got the bum's rush out the door by Mulcahy, but by the time he was forced out many RU MBB fans were ready to see him replaced

Rutgers (Big East Conference) (2001–2006)
2001–02 Rutgers 18–13 8–8 5th (West) NIT First Round
2002–03 Rutgers 12–16 4–12 7th (West)
2003–04 Rutgers 20–13 7–9 T–8th NIT Runner Up
2004–05 Rutgers 10–19 2–14 12th
2005–06 Rutgers 19–14 7–9 T–9th NIT First Round
Rutgers: 79–75 (.513) 28–52 (.350)

What makes his memory look better, is how bad RU MBB became after he left.
 
Gary Waters was a good coach and honorable man who was royally screwed by Bob Mulcahey. BM okayed Waters' trip to be honored at Kent State, and then stabbed him in the back by firing him for deserting the Team. Typical sleazy politician move. By the same token, Louis Orr was under appreciated at Seton Hall, which has never duplicated his level of success since.
 
MADHAT1 said:
His record at RU was better than what followed him, but it wasn't anything to make me think he should be praised highly, just not deserving of being thought of as a bad coach.
Two losing seasons in his five years and not reaching the NCAA tourney in any of them doesn't make me yearn for the Waters days, but feel his tenure was better than what followed.
Gary got the bum's rush out the door by Mulcahy, but by the time he was forced out many RU MBB fans were ready to see him replaced

Rutgers (Big East Conference) (2001–2006)
2001–02 Rutgers 18–13 8–8 5th (West) NIT First Round
2002–03 Rutgers 12–16 4–12 7th (West)
2003–04 Rutgers 20–13 7–9 T–8th NIT Runner Up
2004–05 Rutgers 10–19 2–14 12th
2005–06 Rutgers 19–14 7–9 T–9th NIT First Round
Rutgers: 79–75 (.513) 28–52 (.350)

What makes his memory look better, is how bad RU MBB became after he left.
Click to expand...
He's John Wooden vs. the horror we have had since
 
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RUonBrain said:
I used to think it was amazing that Wenzel had Eddie Jordan and Jeff Van Gundy on his staff, as both obviously became NBA head coaches.

I wondered how much of Wenzel's success was due to their coaching, especially when we made the tournament twice.

Now, it doesn't seem like Jordan probably contributed much (I know that sounds harsh). I'm sure he played a role, but I'm talking about teaching X's and O's, fundamentals development in practice, motivation, in game coaching (the things we complain are missing today).

Does anyone know how much Van Gundy contributed to those things, or how instrumental he was to our success?

Van Gundy is by far my favorite NBA announcer because he has such a tremendous knowledge of the game. So much so, it is hard to fathom he actually coached for us, and since he did, it seems like he must have played a huge role, but I have no inside knowledge.

Does anyone know?

Thanks
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RUoB......A long time ago, I asked Bob about having a very young Jeff Van Gundy on his staff. He told me that Jeff was brilliant. JVG would watch tapes of an opponent and hand Bob a list of 2 or 3 things that would absolutely f*ck up what the opponent was trying to do. It's too bad he was only at RU for one season. I met Jeff at the post season banquet that year and his knowledge of the game was very impressive (as we all now know).
 
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RutgHoops said:
Douby and N'diaye were our first two NBA players since John Battle. Both recruited by Gary. Webb, Coleman, Farmer, Adrian Hill, Inman (ruined by FHjr), Joynes....Gary was not a bad recruiter and was getting the hang of it after a couple early missteps.

Look, you don't have to be a Waters fan, but don't be disenguous. The reality is the guy had the most successful run here since Rutgers joined the Big East. And that is now over two decades ago. He has 348 college wins, a .570 winning percentage, 3 NCAA tournament appearances, and 7 NIT appearances. Gary was and is a good coach.
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Charles Jones (Wenzel), Dahntay Jones and Luis Flores (Bannon) also played in the NBA but they ended up playing elsewhere to finish their careers. Waters caught lightning in a bottle with Douby and N'diaye had a sold career as a shot blocker. Other than that, his recruiting was horrendous with some really, really bad players in his classes.
 
batts said:
Gary Waters was a good coach and honorable man who was royally screwed by Bob Mulcahey. BM okayed Waters' trip to be honored at Kent State, and then stabbed him in the back by firing him for deserting the Team. Typical sleazy politician move. By the same token, Louis Orr was under appreciated at Seton Hall, which has never duplicated his level of success since.
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Mulcahy has blood on his hands with this basketball program but to say he fired Waters for deserting the team is a real stretch and revisionist history. Speaking for myself and probably other fans, Waters taking that trip in the middle of our season and risking not getting back for his current team sent a message that he was unhappy here and was angling for a return to his midwest roots. He may have had reasons to feel that way but only compared to what we're now experiencing can we look back as Waters as some sort of golden era. His recruiting was truly awful with a couple of notable exceptions and he benefitted greatly by having some holdovers from Bannon like Ricky Shields and Herve Lamizana.
 
ColonelRutgers said:
Charles Jones (Wenzel), Dahntay Jones and Luis Flores (Bannon) also played in the NBA but they ended up playing elsewhere to finish their careers. Waters caught lightning in a bottle with Douby and N'diaye had a sold career as a shot blocker. Other than that, his recruiting was horrendous with some really, really bad players in his classes.
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Gary recruited 6 Rivals Top 150 players in four recruiting classes (Douby, Webb, Farmer, Inman, Griffin, N'Diaye). Plus guys like Adrian Hill, Byron Joynes, Ollie Bailey, Zach Gibson(went on to be serviceable at Michigan). And he had to re-recruit kids like Shields and Wiggan who were incoming frosh when he got hired. You don't go 8-8/7-9/7-9 in the Big East with dog s--t rosters. It was the best basketball league in the country at the time. John Wooden he wasn't. But he was darn fine HC.
 
Wenzel is the coach who does not get enough credit. Gary Waters was a gentleman who deserved better. Having said that going overboard on his basketball prowess. Might be time to give Kevin Bannon some dues as Gary only won with his players and recruits. Douby in all fairness was a Bannon recruit.
 
G- RUnit said:
Wenzel is the coach who does not get enough credit. Gary Waters was a gentleman who deserved better. Having said that going overboard on his basketball prowess. Might be time to give Kevin Bannon some dues as Gary only won with his players and recruits. Douby in all fairness was a Bannon recruit.
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Douby was a Waters recruit.
 
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Had always heard it was Bannon who targeted him early and saw potential.
 
Douby was a freshman in Waters Year #3 (the NIT semi-final year). Douby played as a soph in Waters Year #4 and was a junior in Waters Year #5 (NIT).
 
I always laugh when someone mentions a coach won with other coaches players...duh well that means the guy can coach. Shields was a Bannon recruit who never played under Bannon..who the hell coached him where he blossomed and overachieved..ditto for Wiggan who had a solid senior year. Look at Fred Hill he absolutely ruined the FIG class that Waters brought in. I think JR took a lot of crap on this board but its mainly because of his coach, I have little doubt that if Waters was able to coach that FIG class straight through that they would have been on to something.

Can you imagine if Waters had an AD that gave him one iota of support despite the fact the RAC was rocking and making bucks that got funneled away from the program and off to football.
 
Spare130 said:
His teams always gave 100% at all times. They played as a team and we're never lacking fundamentals. The home court advantage was top notch back then and we had a chance to win every home game we played.

I know he's been gone for ten years already and it's old news but we have had ZERO winning seasons since he left. The fun was there while he was at the helm and interest was at an all time high. One of the most underrated things about him was his ability to surround himself with a good staff.

Aaaaahhh the good old days.
Click to expand...

To my fellow and long time sufferers: Gary's 20 win, NIT final season looks pretty damn good from here.
 
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bac2therac said:
I always laugh when someone mentions a coach won with other coaches players...duh well that means the guy can coach. Shields was a Bannon recruit who never played under Bannon..who the hell coached him where he blossomed and overachieved..ditto for Wiggan who had a solid senior year. Look at Fred Hill he absolutely ruined the FIG class that Waters brought in. I think JR took a lot of crap on this board but its mainly because of his coach, I have little doubt that if Waters was able to coach that FIG class straight through that they would have been on to something.

Can you imagine if Waters had an AD that gave him one iota of support despite the fact the RAC was rocking and making bucks that got funneled away from the program and off to football.
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Lamizana was a Parade High School All-American before Waters ever laid eyes on him. Shields was a 6-4 guy with LONG range from three. You want to credit Waters for Shields developing his 3 point shooting ability? Okay. Then who takes the blame for Marquis Webb, a four year starting guard for not developing a jump shot in four years? Not sure how you judge that Shields "overachieved". Farmer was a nice serviceable player and nothing more, Griffin was a decent athlete but a below average basketball player, and Inman was a legend in his own mind who sleepwalked through his career. The FIG class was the rare one that actually completed four years on the banks without transferring but they were certainly not a class that struck fear into the rest of the Big East.
 
RUMassAlum said: ↑
To my fellow and long time sufferers: Gary's 20 win, NIT final season looks pretty damn good from here.
ColonelRutgers said:
And I agree which is sad.
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What makes it sadder is knowing his next season RU went 10-19 (2-14 conference play)
 
totally disagree..Farmer and Inman were very good as frosh..Inman broke his leg and that was a factor that season as he missed 6 weeks. Webb was a very good player, he was all about defense, that's what he was so not sure why you are knocking your offense. He was a team leader and guy with an IQ for the game. Shields was not a top recruit. I could care less about ratings though, that's hardly the end all be all, its about coaching. problem is Waters didn't land enough guys and too many holes...Hill also wanted to pass on that WVU star that wanted to come here under Waters

I watched Farmer and Inman under Waters then watched how Hill ruined them the next year at the expense of that trainwreck Corey Chandler and Nelson ugh
 
bac2therac said:
totally disagree..Farmer and Inman were very good as frosh..Inman broke his leg and that was a factor that season as he missed 6 weeks. Webb was a very good player, he was all about defense, that's what he was so not sure why you are knocking your offense. He was a team leader and guy with an IQ for the game. Shields was not a top recruit. I could care less about ratings though, that's hardly the end all be all, its about coaching. problem is Waters didn't land enough guys and too many holes...Hill also wanted to pass on that WVU star that wanted to come here under Waters

I watched Farmer and Inman under Waters then watched how Hill ruined them the next year at the expense of that trainwreck Corey Chandler and Nelson ugh
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Da'Sean Butler

Can anybody name a better defender at RU than Marquis Webb? He was always matched up against the other team's best 3, 4 or 5.
 
I agree with Bac. Hill had a terrible practice of glorifying incoming prized recruits and treating upper classmen as yesterday's news. He ditched Inman for Chandler. Then he abandoned Chandler for Rosario. Hill was a very good recruiter but a terrible coach.
 
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Sideline20 said:
Da'Sean Butler

Can anybody name a better defender at RU than Marquis Webb? He was always matched up against the other team's best 3, 4 or 5.
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Da'Sean Butler wouldn't have been as good here as he was at WVU, because players actually get better under Huggins. They almost never get better at RU. Mike Sherrod was a great defender. He couldn't shoot either. Rashod Kent was an excellent post defender.
 
as mentioned above, we had a horrible road record with Waters as coach.... we pretty much have that with any coaches since....but Waters got RU to play some excellent ball
against highly ranked big east teams at home....

I really enjoyed going to games at the RAC then, the place got packed, loud, and we had several memorable wins...... but not being able to win on the road destined RU to always wind up a bit sub .500 or worse in league play

we must understand that when Fred Hill was available, he was very desirable, thought to be an excellent recruiter....there was a huge fear that seton hall would nab him and RU acted
quickly to fire Waters.... If RU did not hire him I am pretty sure the Hall would have

at the time I thought it was a good move, Hill appearing to be exactly what we needed.... it turned out far from that...

remember that that 19 or 20 win season that RU had under Waters included three wins or so in the NIT.....at that time the NIT spoon fed RU a couple of gimmies at home, in hopes we would make
it to the garden for the final four...... it worked for the most part, but one year we lost a game to Yale, I think it was, in an early NIT game.

if we ever had a real 19 or 20 win season, we would have made the tourney.
 
Mulcahy for some reason thought FJH was his next Schiano IMO and Gary Waters sensed that.

He wanted out but his firing was trumped up and completely unwarranted.
 
Spare130 said:
His teams always gave 100% at all times. They played as a team and we're never lacking fundamentals. The home court advantage was top notch back then and we had a chance to win every home game we played.

I know he's been gone for ten years already and it's old news but we have had ZERO winning seasons since he left. The fun was there while he was at the helm and interest was at an all time high. One of the most underrated things about him was his ability to surround himself with a good staff.

Aaaaahhh the good old days.
Click to expand...


The Waters offense was awful to watch. He lucked out with Quincy Douby but otherwise the team was hard to watch, although better than today's.
 
So according to multiple people he couldn't recruit and when he landed Douby Inman farmer etc he got lucky?
 
Question ????
If Gary was such a good recruiter and coach, why wasn't RU dancing while he was the HC?
No excuses, it just didn't happen during the 5 years Waters was RU's MBB HC
I think Waters was a good coach , but not good enough for a top conference team.
He had a winning record every other year but in his winning ones his teams weren't good enough for a Tourney invite.

What happened to the just short of good RU MBB program under Gary does make one yearn for a program that gives hope, but even in it's best years just falls short of making the grade, compared to the mediocrity that followed the Waters years.
Even Mike Rice's losing years make MR looked on fondly by some because of the hope his teams gave RU MBB fans after Hill's tenure was a dismal failure.
Mike had a good 1st year, though a losing one, then recruited his first recruiting class.
The losing year with those freshman were overlooked , then as sophomores it was their play better next season. Rice never made RU a winner, but like Waters , his years at RU are looked on fondly by some RU MBB fans because of the hope his teams gave, not the results .

Rutgers has been down so long that coaches that only accomplished NIT bids are looked upon as great ones and RU HCs that fell short but had competitive teams are looked upon as almost saviors.
I might not miss the type of play Jordan's teams have played if he leaves after this season or next, but I also don't miss the coaches that never reached the NCAAs even if I thought they had RU playing better than they are now.
I respect Gary Waters, but feel he was over his head in the BE and he went back to the type of conference competition he could excel.
Rice I'm disappointed about the way RU looked because of his actions, but wish him well because in another era those actions wouldn't even get a sideways glance.
 
Good coach. His teams defended. Home games were a blast. Couldn't win on the road for whatever reason. Even in his 2 best years he was something like 2-14 on the road in the BE.
 
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